K3-Front panel shut down question.

[Gary Ferdinand]

I've heard similar things about APC UPS's.  However I now have 5 of them
sprinkled throughout the house and the modern versions (c last 3 yrs) are
clean.  I also have a cyberpower UPS that claims sine wave output that is
clean.  I needed the latter for one computer that would not accept the
pseudo sine wave output of the APCs.  All clean whether on commercial power
or supplying power.  YMMV of course.

But if all he wishes to do is not yank the power out from under the K3 so it
can be shut down cleanly, I agree with K2AV.  Plug it into your computer's
UPS as stated.  That's exactly what I do with mine.  And my UPS is hefty
enough to run the K3 barefoot for 10-15 minutes. Most power outages are far
shorter than that here in rural upstate NY.  

73/Gary W2CS

>-----Original Message-----
>From: [hidden email] [mailto:elecraft-
>[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Van W1WCG
>Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 7:38 PM
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3-Front panel shut down question.
>
>Not necessarily true -- I had an APC UPS that created continuous
>60Hz-flavored hash on all ham bands (at least up to 21 MHz), S6-S7
>level, whether commercial power was present or not.  I wrote to APC and
>they said their equipment met FCC regulations with regard to spurious
>emissions, and very kindly sent me a deluxe noise-and-surge suppression
>outlet strip.  It made no impression whatsoever on the noise, nor did
>one clamp-on ferrite bead (all I had that would fit the cord at the
>time) on the AC supply cord next to the unit make any difference.
>Perhaps if I had had enough beads to put a couple on every cord plugged
>into the UPS as well, it would have helped.  I just got a Tripp Lite UPS
>of the same size and had no further trouble.
>
>Van, W1WCG
>
>On 8/18/2011 2:42 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Someone also mentioned that the UPS might generate some hash - BUT
>that
>> would only be true if the AC is removed from the UPS.  Under normal
>> conditions with AC present, the inverter is not active.
>>
>> It was not the initial question, but -- if you want to keep
>transmitting
>> after an outage, you will have to implement the large battery
>solutions
>> that have been mentioned.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 8/18/2011 2:22 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
>>> I'll repeat W2CS suggestion, get a UPS, then plug the K3's power
>supply into
>>> the UPS. Since you are trying only to allow yourself to shut down
>cleanly,
>>> you can get the smallest capacity, and therefore the cheapest
>version. It
>>> will handle the K3's RX current for quite a while, even with a small
>UPS.
>>>
>>> Some of the commentary seems to be about creating a full run floating
>>> battery alternate supply.  If you want that, it's one approach, but
>if all
>>> you want is orderly shut down, you hardly need go that far.
>>>
>>> If you already have a UPS for your PC, plug the K3's power supply
>into that
>>> UPS.  When you are operating with AC the extra drain makes no
>difference to
>>> the UPS.  When the power goes down, cease transmitting quickly and
>you will
>>> be fine.  The K3 in RX only adds about 20 watts to the load on the
>AC.
>>>
>>> 73, Guy.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire<[hidden email]>
>wrote:
>>>
>>>> The danger with the K3 seems to be if power is removed while it's
>actively
>>>> writing new data to memory. Early in the K3 program several people
>who
>>>> switched power off at the supply quickly reported finding the
>firmware
>>>> "corrupted" in various ways upon restoring power because of that.
>>>>
>>>> Certainly no physical damage was done, but it is rather inconvenient
>to
>>>> reload all the firmware.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>>
>>>> Ron AC7AC
>>>>
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[Lu Romero - W4LT]

Don:

Depends on the UPS...

in the case of APC, the "Back-Ups" models are "Standby"
types, and yes, the inverters only run when the AC fails and
power is being drawn by the batteries.

However, in the case of APC "Smart-UPS", "Back-UPS Pro" and
TrippLite "SmartPro" models, these are "Line Interactive"
types and the inverter is ALWAYS on, when AC is on, it
charges the battery, but when AC is off it powers the AC
output.

In all cases of the above, some, mostly the less expensive
APC models, are "Modified Sine Wave" which is a rather nasty
looking stepped square wave like waveform with lots of
harmonics.  TrippLite UPS's, at least the SmartPro models I
use at work, are very close if not identical to true sine
wave output.  Check with a scope before placing these
anywhere near a receiver.

I learned this the hard way with a company surplus APC 1kw
unit that I brought home, re-batteried and put into service
on my shack PC's.  This UPS made 40 and 80 meters unuseable.
 Removing it and replacing it with a pair of APC 500w
Back-Ups (the cheap $40 Office Depot ones) cured the problem
while on AC power.

I agree; If you want to do an "orderly" shutdown, a simple
STANDBY mode UPS will allow you to do this. If you want to
keep transmitting, the West Mountain PowerGate is a great
solution.  See your local Server Farm Administrator and buy
him/her lunch so he/she will think of you when he/she
replaces the Farm's UPS batteries every couple of years on a
set schedule.  

Recently pulled sealed AGM-type ex-UPS batteries will still
have a couple of years life left in them when replaced by
these guys.  They are great for this duty... They are the
size of a automobile wet cell, maybe a little bigger, but
bring your hand cart, these suckers are really, really
heavy! :)

BTW, Im getting used to the "backwards" SPAN control on my
P3; mentally uncoupling WIDTH from SPAN helped.  I will have
my feeble mind retrained probably by the end of my NAQP SSB
shift from my club this weekend... :)

-lu-w4lt-

----------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 14:42:25 -0400
From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3-Front panel shut down question.
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Someone also mentioned that the UPS might generate some hash
- BUT that
would only be true if the AC is removed from the UPS.  Under
normal
conditions with AC present, the inverter is not active.

It was not the initial question, but -- if you want to keep
transmitting
after an outage, you will have to implement the large
battery solutions
that have been mentioned.

73,
Don W3FPR

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