Elecraft

[K3] GPIO input to switch output power with external amplifier on?

Classic

List

Threaded

13 messages Options

Thomas Horsten

[K3] GPIO input to switch output power with external amplifier on?

Hi all,

I know that the K3 can remember a separate power level for transmitting
with an intelligent external amplifier like the KPA500, but I have an old
boat-anchor amplifier which I switch in and out with a simple switch
connected to the KEY OUT line of the K3.

Sometimes I am working barefoot on the K3 with 100W and then I decide I
need some extra power and turn on the amplifier. Then I have to turn the
drive down on the K3 to about 40W to drive the amplifier, but sometimes I
forget and the result is amplifier overdrive and burnt smell from the tubes.

It would be very nice if there was an input on the K3 that would switch to
the alternative per-band memory for drive power. It might already be there
and used for the KPA500, but I couldn't find it in the manual.

73, Thomas M0TRN
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Vic Rosenthal

Re: [K3] GPIO input to switch output power with external amplifier on?

I also have suggested this. I wrote a macro which toggles the DIGOUT1 line which I use to
enable/disable my 'dumb' amplifier. The macro also switches between 100w and 65w, which is
more or less what I use to drive the amplifier. But I would really like to have access to
the per-band settings used for the KPA500.

This feature is only available if you have a KPA500 now, but it shouldn't be hard to make
it accessible to everyone.

On 8/28/2012 4:41 PM, Thomas Horsten wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I know that the K3 can remember a separate power level for transmitting
> with an intelligent external amplifier like the KPA500, but I have an old
> boat-anchor amplifier which I switch in and out with a simple switch
> connected to the KEY OUT line of the K3.
>
> Sometimes I am working barefoot on the K3 with 100W and then I decide I
> need some extra power and turn on the amplifier. Then I have to turn the
> drive down on the K3 to about 40W to drive the amplifier, but sometimes I
> forget and the result is amplifier overdrive and burnt smell from the tubes.
>
> It would be very nice if there was an input on the K3 that would switch to
> the alternative per-band memory for drive power. It might already be there
> and used for the KPA500, but I couldn't find it in the manual.
>
> 73, Thomas M0TRN

--
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Thomas Horsten

Re: [K3] GPIO input to switch output power with external amplifier on?

I am wondering if anyone knows how the KXPA500 signals its state to the K3.
What cable is used to interconnect the two? There might already be a GPIO
on the extension connector that enables the alternative power settings on
the K3 on a per band basis.

Any info? Of course if there isn't wouldn't it be great if Wayne could add
it :)

73, Thomas M0TRN

On 29 August 2012 01:52, Vic K2VCO <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I also have suggested this. I wrote a macro which toggles the DIGOUT1 line
> which I use to
> enable/disable my 'dumb' amplifier. The macro also switches between 100w
> and 65w, which is
> more or less what I use to drive the amplifier. But I would really like to
> have access to
> the per-band settings used for the KPA500.
>
> This feature is only available if you have a KPA500 now, but it shouldn't
> be hard to make
> it accessible to everyone.
>
> On 8/28/2012 4:41 PM, Thomas Horsten wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I know that the K3 can remember a separate power level for transmitting
> > with an intelligent external amplifier like the KPA500, but I have an old
> > boat-anchor amplifier which I switch in and out with a simple switch
> > connected to the KEY OUT line of the K3.
> >
> > Sometimes I am working barefoot on the K3 with 100W and then I decide I
> > need some extra power and turn on the amplifier. Then I have to turn the
> > drive down on the K3 to about 40W to drive the amplifier, but sometimes I
> > forget and the result is amplifier overdrive and burnt smell from the
> tubes.
> >
> > It would be very nice if there was an input on the K3 that would switch
> to
> > the alternative per-band memory for drive power. It might already be
> there
> > and used for the KPA500, but I couldn't find it in the manual.
> >
> > 73, Thomas M0TRN
>
>
> --
> Vic, K2VCO
> Fresno CA
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: [K3] GPIO input to switch output power with external amplifier on?

On 9/4/2012 8:29 AM, Thomas Horsten wrote:
> I am wondering if anyone knows how the KXPA500 signals its state to
> the K3.

Per previous information, proprietary serial protocol on pin 2 (AUX
bus).

> What cable is used to interconnect the two?

15 pin HD - KPAK3AUX. see:
http://www.elecraft.com/manual/KPAK3AUX%20Cable%20Set%20Instructions.pdf

> There might already be a GPIO

No - read the K3 Owner's manual for a description of the GPIO signals
on the ACC connector.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 9/4/2012 8:29 AM, Thomas Horsten wrote:

> I am wondering if anyone knows how the KXPA500 signals its state to the K3.
> What cable is used to interconnect the two? There might already be a GPIO
> on the extension connector that enables the alternative power settings on
> the K3 on a per band basis.
>
> Any info? Of course if there isn't wouldn't it be great if Wayne could add
> it :)
>
> 73, Thomas M0TRN
>
> On 29 August 2012 01:52, Vic K2VCO <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I also have suggested this. I wrote a macro which toggles the DIGOUT1 line
>> which I use to
>> enable/disable my 'dumb' amplifier. The macro also switches between 100w
>> and 65w, which is
>> more or less what I use to drive the amplifier. But I would really like to
>> have access to
>> the per-band settings used for the KPA500.
>>
>> This feature is only available if you have a KPA500 now, but it shouldn't
>> be hard to make
>> it accessible to everyone.
>>
>> On 8/28/2012 4:41 PM, Thomas Horsten wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I know that the K3 can remember a separate power level for transmitting
>>> with an intelligent external amplifier like the KPA500, but I have an old
>>> boat-anchor amplifier which I switch in and out with a simple switch
>>> connected to the KEY OUT line of the K3.
>>>
>>> Sometimes I am working barefoot on the K3 with 100W and then I decide I
>>> need some extra power and turn on the amplifier. Then I have to turn the
>>> drive down on the K3 to about 40W to drive the amplifier, but sometimes I
>>> forget and the result is amplifier overdrive and burnt smell from the
>> tubes.
>>>
>>> It would be very nice if there was an input on the K3 that would switch
>> to
>>> the alternative per-band memory for drive power. It might already be
>> there
>>> and used for the KPA500, but I couldn't find it in the manual.
>>>
>>> 73, Thomas M0TRN
>>
>>
>> --
>> Vic, K2VCO
>> Fresno CA
>> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Thomas Horsten

Re: [K3] GPIO input to switch output power with external amplifier on?

Thanks for the answers Joe.

So I guess there are 3 options, 1) we get a GPIO for this purpose, 2)
reverse-engineer the serial protocol and built a little interface box, 3)
Elecraft releases details about the protocol used. I'd sure prefer number 1
if it was possible.

73, Thomas M0TRN

On 4 September 2012 13:40, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 9/4/2012 8:29 AM, Thomas Horsten wrote:
> > I am wondering if anyone knows how the KXPA500 signals its state to
> > the K3.
>
> Per previous information, proprietary serial protocol on pin 2 (AUX
> bus).
>
> > What cable is used to interconnect the two?
>
> 15 pin HD - KPAK3AUX. see:
> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/KPAK3AUX%20Cable%20Set%20Instructions.pdf
>
> > There might already be a GPIO
>
> No - read the K3 Owner's manual for a description of the GPIO signals
> on the ACC connector.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: [K3] GPIO input to switch output power with external amplifier on?

1) we get a GPIO for this purpose,

I don't see how ... the K3 has only two (2) GPIO lines. One is FSK
the other is the already overloaded pin 7 (transverter control/TX
Inhibit).

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 9/4/2012 8:45 AM, Thomas Horsten wrote:

> Thanks for the answers Joe.
>
> So I guess there are 3 options, 1) we get a GPIO for this purpose, 2)
> reverse-engineer the serial protocol and built a little interface box, 3)
> Elecraft releases details about the protocol used. I'd sure prefer number 1
> if it was possible.
>
> 73, Thomas M0TRN
>
> On 4 September 2012 13:40, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 9/4/2012 8:29 AM, Thomas Horsten wrote:
>>> I am wondering if anyone knows how the KXPA500 signals its state to
>>> the K3.
>>
>> Per previous information, proprietary serial protocol on pin 2 (AUX
>> bus).
>>
>> > What cable is used to interconnect the two?
>>
>> 15 pin HD - KPAK3AUX. see:
>> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/KPAK3AUX%20Cable%20Set%20Instructions.pdf
>>
>> > There might already be a GPIO
>>
>> No - read the K3 Owner's manual for a description of the GPIO signals
>> on the ACC connector.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>

Thomas Horsten

Re: [K3] GPIO input to switch output power with external amplifier on?

Ok, external control box it is then. I suppose a small AVR will do the job,
but now to figure out enough of the 1-wire serial protocol to be able to do
this.. Does anyone have a KXPA500, a Bus Pirate, and an hour or so?

73, Thomas M0TRN

On 4 September 2012 14:12, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I don't see how ... the K3 has only two (2) GPIO lines. One is FSK
> the other is the already overloaded pin 7 (transverter control/TX
> Inhibit).
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Stewart@twinwood

Re: [K3] GPIO input to switch output power with external amplifier on?

Raises some interesting questions...

Can a unique protocol be protected ?

If so, if it is publicised has an offence been committed ?

If it is used only by an individual and not commercially, has an offence been committed ?

73
Stewart G3RXQ
On Tue, 4 Sep 2012 14:16:35 +0100, Thomas Horsten wrote:

> Ok, external control box it is then. I suppose a small AVR will do the job,
> but now to figure out enough of the 1-wire serial protocol to be able to do
> this.. Does anyone have a KXPA500, a Bus Pirate, and an hour or so?
>
> 73, Thomas M0TRN
>
> On 4 September 2012 14:12, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I don't see how ... the K3 has only two (2) GPIO lines. One is FSK
>> the other is the already overloaded pin 7 (transverter control/TX
>> Inhibit).
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Thomas Horsten

Re: [K3] GPIO input to switch output power with external amplifier on?

First off I'm pretty sure Elecraft wouldn't mind if we built this. In fact
I'm guessing if they had a "cleaned up for publishing" document with the
protocol specification, Wayne would post it here. I'm guessing they don't,
and it would be a lot of work to get it into a clean, publishable version -
and the engineers are quite busy with KX3, KAT500, and other things.

>From a legal standpoint, there is nothing wrong with reverse engineering
such a protocol and publishing the result, as long as there wasn't any
misappropriation of trade secrets (e.g. using an unauthorized, leaked
Elecraft document as a starting point). But monitoring the communications
on the bus and from there working out the protocol, and implementing your
own version, is a perfectly legal thing to do, and is in fact a protected
right. The only exception would be DMCA-related, where you are not allowed
to reverse engineer a protocol that's specifically designed to protect
copyright - many do not like that law one bit, and it does not apply
everywhere, but in any case a case like this falls way outside the scope of
the DMCA.

So it's perfectly legal to do :)

73, Thomas M0TRN

On 4 September 2012 15:10, Stewart <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Raises some interesting questions...
>
> Can a unique protocol be protected ?
>
> If so, if it is publicised has an offence been committed ?
>
> If it is used only by an individual and not commercially, has an offence
> been committed ?
>
> 73
> Stewart G3RXQ
>

Holger Schurig-2

Re: [K3] GPIO input to switch output power with external amplifier on?

Thomas,

did you know that Lyle reverse-engineered the K2-AUX-protocol, then
build a DSP based audio filter? Elecraft didn't sue him for
reverse-engineering, but hired him after they saw the result.

:-)
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: [K3] GPIO input to switch output power with external amplifier on?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Thomas Horsten

I apologize, but we -strongly- ask that people do not try to send their own auxbus signals to the K3. This is a critical proprietary timing component of internal K3 operation and improper use will cause serious problems for the K3, including possible damage of internal components during disturbed T/R timing. Its is not a simple serial interface.

Also, additional non-Elecraft products loading down this bus may cause serious timing errors inside the K3. This will cause all sorts of strange and intermittent problems.

This is one area of modification that will void the warranty when problems arise. We are not set up to support any user questions or problems in this area when non-Elecraft equipment is hooked up to the auxbus pin.

73,
Eric
www.elecraft.com
_..._

On Sep 4, 2012, at 7:44 AM, Thomas Horsten <[hidden email]> wrote:

> First off I'm pretty sure Elecraft wouldn't mind if we built this. In fact
> I'm guessing if they had a "cleaned up for publishing" document with the
> protocol specification, Wayne would post it here. I'm guessing they don't,
> and it would be a lot of work to get it into a clean, publishable version -
> and the engineers are quite busy with KX3, KAT500, and other things.
>
>> From a legal standpoint, there is nothing wrong with reverse engineering
> such a protocol and publishing the result, as long as there wasn't any
> misappropriation of trade secrets (e.g. using an unauthorized, leaked
> Elecraft document as a starting point). But monitoring the communications
> on the bus and from there working out the protocol, and implementing your
> own version, is a perfectly legal thing to do, and is in fact a protected
> right. The only exception would be DMCA-related, where you are not allowed
> to reverse engineer a protocol that's specifically designed to protect
> copyright - many do not like that law one bit, and it does not apply
> everywhere, but in any case a case like this falls way outside the scope of
> the DMCA.
>
> So it's perfectly legal to do :)
>
> 73, Thomas M0TRN
>
> On 4 September 2012 15:10, Stewart <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Raises some interesting questions...
>>
>> Can a unique protocol be protected ?
>>
>> If so, if it is publicised has an offence been committed ?
>>
>> If it is used only by an individual and not commercially, has an offence
>> been committed ?
>>
>> 73
>> Stewart G3RXQ
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Thomas Horsten

Re: [K3] GPIO input to switch output power with external amplifier on?

Hi Eric,

Thanks for this information. I'll drop the idea for now - but could you or
Wayne think of some alternative way to trigger the "external amplifier
active" mode in the K3? It would really be useful, I've nearly melted my
amplifier a couple of times.

73, Thomas M0TRN

On 4 September 2012 16:15, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft
<[hidden email]>wrote:

> I apologize, but we -strongly- ask that people do not try to send their
> own auxbus signals to the K3. This is a critical proprietary timing
> component of internal K3 operation and improper use will cause serious
> problems for the K3, including possible damage of internal components
> during disturbed T/R timing. Its is not a simple serial interface.
>
> Also, additional non-Elecraft products loading down this bus may cause
> serious timing errors inside the K3. This will cause all sorts of strange
> and intermittent problems.
>
> This is one area of modification that will void the warranty when problems
> arise. We are not set up to support any user questions or problems in this
> area when non-Elecraft equipment is hooked up to the auxbus pin.
>
> 73,
> Eric
>

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: [K3] GPIO input to switch output power with external amplifier on?

Administrator

Hi Thomas,

I'll discuss this with Wayne to see if it is possible.

We're pretty busy in engineering right now, so even if it is possible, it may be a while before it happens.

73,
Eric
www.elecraft.com
_..._

On Sep 4, 2012, at 8:19 AM, Thomas Horsten <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Eric,
>
> Thanks for this information. I'll drop the idea for now - but could you or Wayne think of some alternative way to trigger the "external amplifier active" mode in the K3? It would really be useful, I've nearly melted my amplifier a couple of times.
>
> 73, Thomas M0TRN
>
> On 4 September 2012 16:15, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I apologize, but we -strongly- ask that people do not try to send their own auxbus signals to the K3. This is a critical proprietary timing component of internal K3 operation and improper use will cause serious problems for the K3, including possible damage of internal components during disturbed T/R timing. Its is not a simple serial interface.
>
> Also, additional non-Elecraft products loading down this bus may cause serious timing errors inside the K3. This will cause all sorts of strange and intermittent problems.
>
> This is one area of modification that will void the warranty when problems arise. We are not set up to support any user questions or problems in this area when non-Elecraft equipment is hooked up to the auxbus pin.
>
> 73,
> Eric
>