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K3 Hi Cut & Low Cut granularity bug?

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k1htv

K3 Hi Cut & Low Cut granularity bug?

K3 Hi Cut & Low Cut granularity bug?

Lately I've been running a number of digital modes (JT65A, PSK31 & RTTY) on the
HF bands. The K3's APF and dual PB filters really help to copy weak RTTY
signals, especially when there is QRM. When using the JT65A mode, signals even
weaker than -20 dB can be copied. These very weak signals are often effected by
much stronger signals within the receiver's pass band. Often, these very strong
signals will act on the K3's AGC and push the weaker signals farther into the
noise, making them uncopyable.

I have found that adjusting the K3's 'Hi' and 'Lo' cut filters to be the
quickest and easiest way to reduce the QRM from adjacent loud signals. At times
an offending strong station is very close to the weak signal's frequency. The
'Hi-Cut' and 'Lo-Cut' filters must be adjusted so they attenuate the nearby loud
interfering signal but not the weak signal you are attempting to copy.
Unfortunately, these controls can only be adjusted in 100 Hz increments.

Although the SHIFT can be set up for 10Hz or 50 Hz increments, at present the
granularity of the K3's WIDTH, HI CUT, and LOW CUT controls can only be set to
100 Hz in the CW & Digital modes.

Also, when the SHIFT granularity (CONFIG:PB CTL) is changed from 50Hz to 10Hz,
the Hi Cut and Low Cut controls do not work at all! Is this a BUG or a FEATURE?
I'm presently using K3 firmware update MCU 4.36 .

It would be very helpful if the 'Hi-Cut' and 'Lo-Cut' filtering could be
adjusted in smaller increments than the present 100Hz. Being able to fine tune
the Hi and Low cut filters would really help to quickly and easily reduce QRM
that might develop either above or below the digital signal being copied.

I hope that this request can be implemented in a future revision of K3 software.

73,
Rich - K1HTV

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3 Hi Cut & Low Cut granularity bug?

> Also, when the SHIFT granularity (CONFIG:PB CTL) is changed from 50Hz
> to 10Hz, > the Hi Cut and Low Cut controls do not work at all! Is
> this a BUG ora FEATURE? I'm presently using K3 firmware update MCU
> 4.36 .

Feature ... as documented every since the 10 Hz steps for shift/width
was first provided in beta testing.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 6/7/2011 5:26 PM, Rich - K1HTV wrote:

> K3 Hi Cut& Low Cut granularity bug?
>
> Lately I've been running a number of digital modes (JT65A, PSK31& RTTY) on the
> HF bands. The K3's APF and dual PB filters really help to copy weak RTTY
> signals, especially when there is QRM. When using the JT65A mode, signals even
> weaker than -20 dB can be copied. These very weak signals are often effected by
> much stronger signals within the receiver's pass band. Often, these very strong
> signals will act on the K3's AGC and push the weaker signals farther into the
> noise, making them uncopyable.
>
> I have found that adjusting the K3's 'Hi' and 'Lo' cut filters to be the
> quickest and easiest way to reduce the QRM from adjacent loud signals. At times
> an offending strong station is very close to the weak signal's frequency. The
> 'Hi-Cut' and 'Lo-Cut' filters must be adjusted so they attenuate the nearby loud
> interfering signal but not the weak signal you are attempting to copy.
> Unfortunately, these controls can only be adjusted in 100 Hz increments.
>
> Although the SHIFT can be set up for 10Hz or 50 Hz increments, at present the
> granularity of the K3's WIDTH, HI CUT, and LOW CUT controls can only be set to
> 100 Hz in the CW& Digital modes.
>
> Also, when the SHIFT granularity (CONFIG:PB CTL) is changed from 50Hz to 10Hz,
> the Hi Cut and Low Cut controls do not work at all! Is this a BUG or a FEATURE?
> I'm presently using K3 firmware update MCU 4.36 .
>
> It would be very helpful if the 'Hi-Cut' and 'Lo-Cut' filtering could be
> adjusted in smaller increments than the present 100Hz. Being able to fine tune
> the Hi and Low cut filters would really help to quickly and easily reduce QRM
> that might develop either above or below the digital signal being copied.
>
> I hope that this request can be implemented in a future revision of K3 software.
>
> 73,
> Rich - K1HTV
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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k1htv

Re: K3 Hi Cut & Low Cut granularity bug?

Joe,
I'm aware of the SHIFT granularity being settable from 50 Hz to 10 Hz. What I
was questioning is why, when this change is made, that the K3's HI CUT and LOW
CUT controls are disabled. After you set CONFIG:PB CTL to 10 Hz, when you press
either HI-CUT or LOW-CUT. nothing happens and you can no longer roll off either
side of the passband as you could when PB CTL is configured to 50 Hz. Is this
an undocumented feature? If so, I think it is a bad one.

73,
Rich - K1HTV

= = =

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Subich, W4TV [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 19:42 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hi Cut & Low Cut granularity bug?

> Also, when the SHIFT granularity (CONFIG:PB CTL) is changed from 50Hz
> to 10Hz, > the Hi Cut and Low Cut controls do not work at all! Is this
> a BUG ora FEATURE? I'm presently using K3 firmware update MCU
> 4.36 .

Feature ... as documented every since the 10 Hz steps for shift/width was first
provided in beta testing.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 6/7/2011 5:26 PM, Rich - K1HTV wrote:
> K3 Hi Cut& Low Cut granularity bug?
>
> Lately I've been running a number of digital modes (JT65A, PSK31&
> RTTY) on the HF bands. The K3's APF and dual PB filters really help to
> copy weak RTTY signals, especially when there is QRM. When using the
> JT65A mode, signals even weaker than -20 dB can be copied. These very
> weak signals are often effected by much stronger signals within the
> receiver's pass band. Often, these very strong signals will act on the
> K3's AGC and push the weaker signals farther into the noise, making them
uncopyable.
>
> I have found that adjusting the K3's 'Hi' and 'Lo' cut filters to be
> the quickest and easiest way to reduce the QRM from adjacent loud
> signals. At times an offending strong station is very close to the
> weak signal's frequency. The 'Hi-Cut' and 'Lo-Cut' filters must be
> adjusted so they attenuate the nearby loud interfering signal but not the weak
signal you are attempting to copy.
> Unfortunately, these controls can only be adjusted in 100 Hz increments.
>
> Although the SHIFT can be set up for 10Hz or 50 Hz increments, at
> present the granularity of the K3's WIDTH, HI CUT, and LOW CUT
> controls can only be set to 100 Hz in the CW& Digital modes.
>
> Also, when the SHIFT granularity (CONFIG:PB CTL) is changed from 50Hz
> to 10Hz, the Hi Cut and Low Cut controls do not work at all! Is this a BUG or
a FEATURE?
> I'm presently using K3 firmware update MCU 4.36 .
>
> It would be very helpful if the 'Hi-Cut' and 'Lo-Cut' filtering could
> be adjusted in smaller increments than the present 100Hz. Being able
> to fine tune the Hi and Low cut filters would really help to quickly
> and easily reduce QRM that might develop either above or below the digital
signal being copied.
>
> I hope that this request can be implemented in a future revision of K3
software.

>
> 73,
> Rich - K1HTV
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3 Hi Cut & Low Cut granularity bug?

> What I was questioning is why, when this change is made, that the
> K3's HI CUT and LOW CUT controls are disabled.

You will need to ask Wayne the reason but I suspect it is because the
Hi/Lo Cut don't match the shift/width steps when PB CTL=10 Hz.

> Is this an undocumented feature?

No, it's documented and has been since the 10 Hz Passband shift steps
was introduced on an experimental basis in MCU 3.25 (look at the FW
release notes: hwfnotes.rtf).

> If so, I think it is a bad one.

I disagree ... I regularly use shift/width for CW and FSK_D and HI/LO
for SSB/DATA_A. I don't see the need for width steps less than 50 Hz
for wideband modes.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 6/7/2011 9:51 PM, Rich - K1HTV wrote:

> Joe,
> I'm aware of the SHIFT granularity being settable from 50 Hz to 10 Hz. What I
> was questioning is why, when this change is made, that the K3's HI CUT and LOW
> CUT controls are disabled. After you set CONFIG:PB CTL to 10 Hz, when you press
> either HI-CUT or LOW-CUT. nothing happens and you can no longer roll off either
> side of the passband as you could when PB CTL is configured to 50 Hz. Is this
> an undocumented feature? If so, I think it is a bad one.
>
> 73,
> Rich - K1HTV
>
> = = =
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Subich, W4TV [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 19:42 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hi Cut& Low Cut granularity bug?
>
>
>> Also, when the SHIFT granularity (CONFIG:PB CTL) is changed from 50Hz
>> to 10Hz,> the Hi Cut and Low Cut controls do not work at all! Is this
>> a BUG ora FEATURE? I'm presently using K3 firmware update MCU
>> 4.36 .
>
> Feature ... as documented every since the 10 Hz steps for shift/width was first
> provided in beta testing.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 6/7/2011 5:26 PM, Rich - K1HTV wrote:
>> K3 Hi Cut& Low Cut granularity bug?
>>
>> Lately I've been running a number of digital modes (JT65A, PSK31&
>> RTTY) on the HF bands. The K3's APF and dual PB filters really help to
>> copy weak RTTY signals, especially when there is QRM. When using the
>> JT65A mode, signals even weaker than -20 dB can be copied. These very
>> weak signals are often effected by much stronger signals within the
>> receiver's pass band. Often, these very strong signals will act on the
>> K3's AGC and push the weaker signals farther into the noise, making them
> uncopyable.
>>
>> I have found that adjusting the K3's 'Hi' and 'Lo' cut filters to be
>> the quickest and easiest way to reduce the QRM from adjacent loud
>> signals. At times an offending strong station is very close to the
>> weak signal's frequency. The 'Hi-Cut' and 'Lo-Cut' filters must be
>> adjusted so they attenuate the nearby loud interfering signal but not the weak
> signal you are attempting to copy.
>> Unfortunately, these controls can only be adjusted in 100 Hz increments.
>>
>> Although the SHIFT can be set up for 10Hz or 50 Hz increments, at
>> present the granularity of the K3's WIDTH, HI CUT, and LOW CUT
>> controls can only be set to 100 Hz in the CW& Digital modes.
>>
>> Also, when the SHIFT granularity (CONFIG:PB CTL) is changed from 50Hz
>> to 10Hz, the Hi Cut and Low Cut controls do not work at all! Is this a BUG or
> a FEATURE?
>> I'm presently using K3 firmware update MCU 4.36 .
>>
>> It would be very helpful if the 'Hi-Cut' and 'Lo-Cut' filtering could
>> be adjusted in smaller increments than the present 100Hz. Being able
>> to fine tune the Hi and Low cut filters would really help to quickly
>> and easily reduce QRM that might develop either above or below the digital
> signal being copied.
>>
>> I hope that this request can be implemented in a future revision of K3
> software.
>>
>> 73,
>> Rich - K1HTV
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
>
>

wayne burdick

Re: K3 Hi Cut & Low Cut granularity bug?

Administrator

In reply to this post by k1htv

Providing HI CUT and LO CUT when SHIFT is configured for 10 Hz
increments would require a substantial rewrite to the K3 firmware. If
you'd like to use LO and HI CUT, for now you'll need to use 50-Hz steps.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Jun 7, 2011, at 6:51 PM, Rich - K1HTV wrote:

> Joe,
> I'm aware of the SHIFT granularity being settable from 50 Hz to 10
> Hz. What I
> was questioning is why, when this change is made, that the K3's HI
> CUT and LOW
> CUT controls are disabled. After you set CONFIG:PB CTL to 10 Hz,
> when you press
> either HI-CUT or LOW-CUT. nothing happens and you can no longer roll
> off either
> side of the passband as you could when PB CTL is configured to 50
> Hz. Is this
> an undocumented feature? If so, I think it is a bad one.
>
> 73,
> Rich - K1HTV
>
> = = =
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Subich, W4TV [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 19:42 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hi Cut & Low Cut granularity bug?
>
>
>> Also, when the SHIFT granularity (CONFIG:PB CTL) is changed from 50Hz
>> to 10Hz, > the Hi Cut and Low Cut controls do not work at all! Is
>> this
>> a BUG ora FEATURE? I'm presently using K3 firmware update MCU
>> 4.36 .
>
> Feature ... as documented every since the 10 Hz steps for shift/
> width was first
> provided in beta testing.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 6/7/2011 5:26 PM, Rich - K1HTV wrote:
>> K3 Hi Cut& Low Cut granularity bug?
>>
>> Lately I've been running a number of digital modes (JT65A, PSK31&
>> RTTY) on the HF bands. The K3's APF and dual PB filters really help
>> to
>> copy weak RTTY signals, especially when there is QRM. When using the
>> JT65A mode, signals even weaker than -20 dB can be copied. These very
>> weak signals are often effected by much stronger signals within the
>> receiver's pass band. Often, these very strong signals will act on
>> the
>> K3's AGC and push the weaker signals farther into the noise, making
>> them
> uncopyable.
>>
>> I have found that adjusting the K3's 'Hi' and 'Lo' cut filters to be
>> the quickest and easiest way to reduce the QRM from adjacent loud
>> signals. At times an offending strong station is very close to the
>> weak signal's frequency. The 'Hi-Cut' and 'Lo-Cut' filters must be
>> adjusted so they attenuate the nearby loud interfering signal but
>> not the weak
> signal you are attempting to copy.
>> Unfortunately, these controls can only be adjusted in 100 Hz
>> increments.
>>
>> Although the SHIFT can be set up for 10Hz or 50 Hz increments, at
>> present the granularity of the K3's WIDTH, HI CUT, and LOW CUT
>> controls can only be set to 100 Hz in the CW& Digital modes.
>>
>> Also, when the SHIFT granularity (CONFIG:PB CTL) is changed from 50Hz
>> to 10Hz, the Hi Cut and Low Cut controls do not work at all! Is
>> this a BUG or
> a FEATURE?
>> I'm presently using K3 firmware update MCU 4.36 .
>>
>> It would be very helpful if the 'Hi-Cut' and 'Lo-Cut' filtering could
>> be adjusted in smaller increments than the present 100Hz. Being able
>> to fine tune the Hi and Low cut filters would really help to quickly
>> and easily reduce QRM that might develop either above or below the
>> digital
> signal being copied.
>>
>> I hope that this request can be implemented in a future revision of
>> K3
> software.
>>
>> 73,
>> Rich - K1HTV
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>> email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Vic K2VCO

Re: K3 Hi Cut & Low Cut granularity bug?

In reply to this post by k1htv

It's not a bug, it's a documented limitation.

Actually, it can be a feature: if it's set to 10 Hz and you tap one of the knobs, it
displays the shift or the width without changing the control's function!

On 6/7/2011 6:51 PM, Rich - K1HTV wrote:

--
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Ed Muns, W0YK

Re: K3 Hi Cut & Low Cut granularity bug?

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

I don't see this as a limitation because I only use HI CUT and LO CUT in SSB
where 50 Hz steps is just fine. For CW and RTTY, the 10 Hz steps of SHIFT
and WIDTH are great.

Ed - W0YK

N6KR wrote:
> Providing HI CUT and LO CUT when SHIFT is configured for 10
> Hz increments would require a substantial rewrite to the K3
> firmware. If you'd like to use LO and HI CUT, for now you'll
> need to use 50-Hz steps.

______________________________________________________________
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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K5DNL

Re: K3 Hi Cut & Low Cut granularity bug?

In reply to this post by k1htv

Rich,

Maybe I'm missing something , but I use Bandwidth control
and shift.
73 Ken K5DNL
---------------------------------------------------------

--- On Tue, 6/7/11, Rich - K1HTV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Rich - K1HTV <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hi Cut & Low Cut granularity bug?
> To: "'Joe Subich, W4TV'" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 8:51 PM
> Joe,
> I'm aware of the SHIFT granularity being settable
> from 50 Hz to 10 Hz. What I
> was questioning is why, when this change is made, that the
> K3's HI CUT and LOW
> CUT controls are disabled. After you set CONFIG:PB
> CTL to 10 Hz, when you press
> either HI-CUT or LOW-CUT. nothing happens and you can no
> longer roll off either
> side of the passband as you could when PB CTL is configured
> to 50 Hz. Is this
> an undocumented feature? If so, I think it is a bad one.
>
> 73,
> Rich - K1HTV
>
> = = =
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Subich, W4TV [mailto:[hidden email]]
>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 19:42 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hi Cut & Low Cut granularity
> bug?
>
>
> > Also, when the SHIFT granularity (CONFIG:PB CTL) is
> changed from 50Hz
> > to 10Hz, > the Hi Cut and Low Cut controls do not
> work at all! Is this
> > a BUG ora FEATURE? I'm presently using K3 firmware
> update MCU
> > 4.36 .
>
> Feature ... as documented every since the 10 Hz steps for
> shift/width was first
> provided in beta testing.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 6/7/2011 5:26 PM, Rich - K1HTV wrote:
> > K3 Hi Cut& Low Cut granularity bug?
> >
> > Lately I've been running a number of digital modes
> (JT65A, PSK31&
> > RTTY) on the HF bands. The K3's APF and dual PB
> filters really help to
> > copy weak RTTY signals, especially when there is QRM.
> When using the
> > JT65A mode, signals even weaker than -20 dB can be
> copied. These very
> > weak signals are often effected by much stronger
> signals within the
> > receiver's pass band. Often, these very strong signals
> will act on the
> > K3's AGC and push the weaker signals farther into the
> noise, making them
> uncopyable.
> >
> > I have found that adjusting the K3's 'Hi' and 'Lo' cut
> filters to be
> > the quickest and easiest way to reduce the QRM from
> adjacent loud
> > signals. At times an offending strong station is very
> close to the
> > weak signal's frequency. The 'Hi-Cut' and 'Lo-Cut'
> filters must be
> > adjusted so they attenuate the nearby loud interfering
> signal but not the weak
> signal you are attempting to copy.
> > Unfortunately, these controls can only be adjusted in
> 100 Hz increments.
> >
> > Although the SHIFT can be set up for 10Hz or 50 Hz
> increments, at
> > present the granularity of the K3's WIDTH, HI CUT, and
> LOW CUT
> > controls can only be set to 100 Hz in the
> CW& Digital modes.
> >
> > Also, when the SHIFT granularity (CONFIG:PB CTL) is
> changed from 50Hz
> > to 10Hz, the Hi Cut and Low Cut controls do not work
> at all! Is this a BUG or
> a FEATURE?
> > I'm presently using K3 firmware update MCU 4.36
> .
> >
> > It would be very helpful if the 'Hi-Cut' and 'Lo-Cut'
> filtering could
> > be adjusted in smaller increments than the present
> 100Hz. Being able
> > to fine tune the Hi and Low cut filters would really
> help to quickly
> > and easily reduce QRM that might develop either above
> or below the digital
> signal being copied.
> >
> > I hope that this request can be implemented in a
> future revision of K3
> software.
> >
> > 73,
> > Rich - K1HTV
> >
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support
> this email
> > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>