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[K3] How much compression for contest use?

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Pete Smith N4ZR

[K3] How much compression for contest use?

I am setting up for a couple of phone contests this fall. With the
Yamaha headset through a sound card to the line input on the K3 I am
currently setting compression at 22, which gives me occasional
excursions on the CMP meter to around 8. A small sampling says it
sounds fine but "a little thin."

What CMP setting do you use in contests?

--
73, Pete N4ZR

The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

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E72X

Re: [K3] How much compression for contest use?

Hi,
I am prefer 30% usually in contest....

--- On Fri, 10/29/10, Pete Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Pete Smith <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] [K3] How much compression for contest use?
To: "Elecraft List" <[hidden email]>
Date: Friday, October 29, 2010, 1:33 PM

I am setting up for a couple of phone contests this fall. With the
Yamaha headset through a sound card to the line input on the K3 I am
currently setting compression at 22, which gives me occasional
excursions on the CMP meter to around 8. A small sampling says it
sounds fine but "a little thin."

What CMP setting do you use in contests?

--
73, Pete N4ZR

The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

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Bob Naumann W5OV

Re: [K3] How much compression for contest use?

With my CM500, MIC= 16 CMP = 28.

Good reports.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gordan Hribar
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 5:47 AM
To: Elecraft List; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] How much compression for contest use?

Hi,
I am prefer 30% usually in contest....

--- On Fri, 10/29/10, Pete Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Pete Smith <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] [K3] How much compression for contest use?
To: "Elecraft List" <[hidden email]>
Date: Friday, October 29, 2010, 1:33 PM

I am setting up for a couple of phone contests this fall. With the
Yamaha headset through a sound card to the line input on the K3 I am
currently setting compression at 22, which gives me occasional
excursions on the CMP meter to around 8. A small sampling says it
sounds fine but "a little thin."

What CMP setting do you use in contests?

--
73, Pete N4ZR

The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

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Pete Smith N4ZR

Re: [K3] How much compression for contest use?

I probably should also have asked for recommendations on TX EQ
settings. One person has already suggested significant high frequency
boost for punchier audio.

73, Pete N4ZR

The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

On 10/29/2010 7:17 AM, Bob Naumann wrote:

> With my CM500, MIC= 16 CMP = 28.
>
> Good reports.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gordan Hribar
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 5:47 AM
> To: Elecraft List; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] How much compression for contest use?
>
> Hi,
> I am prefer 30% usually in contest....
>
> --- On Fri, 10/29/10, Pete Smith<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> From: Pete Smith<[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] [K3] How much compression for contest use?
> To: "Elecraft List"<[hidden email]>
> Date: Friday, October 29, 2010, 1:33 PM
>
> I am setting up for a couple of phone contests this fall. With the
> Yamaha headset through a sound card to the line input on the K3 I am
> currently setting compression at 22, which gives me occasional
> excursions on the CMP meter to around 8. A small sampling says it
> sounds fine but "a little thin."
>
> What CMP setting do you use in contests?
>
>

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Mike Reublin

Re: [K3] How much compression for contest use?

In reply to this post by Pete Smith N4ZR

Pete,

FWIW, I use 20 no matter what (Yamaha mic). Since the settings depend so much on the
characteristics of your voice and those of the mic, what others use is IMHO largely
irrelevant.

73, Mike NF4L

On 10/29/2010 6:33 AM, Pete Smith wrote:
> I am setting up for a couple of phone contests this fall. With the
> Yamaha headset through a sound card to the line input on the K3 I am
> currently setting compression at 22, which gives me occasional
> excursions on the CMP meter to around 8. A small sampling says it
> sounds fine but "a little thin."
>
> What CMP setting do you use in contests?
>

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Matt Zilmer

Re: [K3] How much compression for contest use?

In reply to this post by Pete Smith N4ZR

With the CM500, I use MIC=22, CMP=25, MIC SEL=rP.H. This works for
about 1" of separation between lips and mic.

If you have a lot of fan noise, might want to set CMP down a bit.

matt W6NIA

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 06:33:59 -0400, you wrote:

>I am setting up for a couple of phone contests this fall. With the
>Yamaha headset through a sound card to the line input on the K3 I am
>currently setting compression at 22, which gives me occasional
>excursions on the CMP meter to around 8. A small sampling says it
>sounds fine but "a little thin."
>
>What CMP setting do you use in contests?
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Jim Brown-10

Re: [K3] How much compression for contest use?

In reply to this post by Pete Smith N4ZR

On 10/29/2010 3:33 AM, Pete Smith wrote:
> I am currently setting compression at 22,

You do NOT set compression by looking at that number. Rather, you set
compression by ADJUSTING the compression control until the METER
indicates the desired amount of compression on speech peaks. A good
setting for contesting and DXing is about 10 dB.

If you're getting reports that your audio is thin, that's an EQ issue,
not a compression issue. BUT -- the best way to evaluate EQ is to have
the other station listen with their RX set to a wide IF bandwidth. For
contesting, we generally WANT our audio to be at least a bit "thin" --
we don't want to waste TX power on the lower octaves, which don't
contribute to intelligibility.

I just went through those adjustments yesterday with N6GQ, who was
setting up his K3 for a single-op at YN4AA for CQWW SSB this weekend. I
listened to him, and he did the same for me. He started out with the
FOUR lowest bands at maximum cut, and it sounded too thin. We brought
the fourth band up to zero, and it wasn't quite enough bass cut, but it
sounded right on his voice with about 6dB of cut on that band. This was
with my IF set wide. Then I narrowed my IF to 1.8 kHz, and he sounded
thin. He SHOULD sound thin to a station using a 1.8 kHz filter, so we
left it there. My voice sounded best to him with the three lowest bands
at max cut, and the fourth band set to zero (flat).

Hope this helps.

73, Jim K9YC

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Nr4c

Re: [K3] How much compression for contest use?

In reply to this post by Pete Smith N4ZR

I use my CM500 on 'RP.L bias' with mic gain set to around 12-15 and
compression less than 20. I get good audio, and good power out. it
just plugs right in the real panel jacks. My TX EQ is set to -16 -16
-16 +3 0 0 0 0 (I think this is right).

Could you explain why you are going thru a sound card to the LINE IN
on the K3? I never considered this approach, and am wondering if the
regular mic Gain/COM controls even work on this input. How about the
TX EQ, does it work on this input as well?

Curiouser and curiouser.

...bc

Quoting Pete Smith <[hidden email]>:

> I am setting up for a couple of phone contests this fall. With the
> Yamaha headset through a sound card to the line input on the K3 I am
> currently setting compression at 22, which gives me occasional
> excursions on the CMP meter to around 8. A small sampling says it
> sounds fine but "a little thin."
>
> What CMP setting do you use in contests?
>
> --
> 73, Pete N4ZR
>
> The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
> The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
> reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
> spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

The Smiths

Re: [K3] How much compression for contest use?

In reply to this post by Matt Zilmer

Or you could just dump the mic and pick up a key... No compression necessary..

> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:06:23 -0700
> CC: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] How much compression for contest use?
>
> With the CM500, I use MIC=22, CMP=25, MIC SEL=rP.H. This works for
> about 1" of separation between lips and mic.
>
> If you have a lot of fan noise, might want to set CMP down a bit.
>
> matt W6NIA
>
> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 06:33:59 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >I am setting up for a couple of phone contests this fall. With the
> >Yamaha headset through a sound card to the line input on the K3 I am
> >currently setting compression at 22, which gives me occasional
> >excursions on the CMP meter to around 8. A small sampling says it
> >sounds fine but "a little thin."
> >
> >What CMP setting do you use in contests?
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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Iain MacDonnell - N6ML-2

Re: [K3] How much compression for contest use?

In reply to this post by Nr4c

There's a separate setting for line-in gain, which is adjusted using
the "MIC" control when "MAIN:MIC-SEL" is set to "line-in". Compression
and TX EQ still apply (in phone modes).

A good reason to route audio though the computer would be to utilise
software "digital voice keying", where you can have the computer
record your voice (on the fly), and play it back.

The CM500 works well for this, as it's designed to work with sound
cards, where the Heil HC-4 (etc) elements require a lot of "boost" to
drive a sound card mic input.

~Iain / N6ML

On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 10:10 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I use my CM500 on 'RP.L bias' with mic gain set to around 12-15 and
> compression less than 20. I get good audio, and good power out. it
> just plugs right in the real panel jacks. My TX EQ is set to -16 -16
> -16 +3 0 0 0 0 (I think this is right).
>
> Could you explain why you are going thru a sound card to the LINE IN
> on the K3? I never considered this approach, and am wondering if the
> regular mic Gain/COM controls even work on this input. How about the
> TX EQ, does it work on this input as well?
>
> Curiouser and curiouser.
>
> ...bc
>
>
> Quoting Pete Smith <[hidden email]>:
>
>> I am setting up for a couple of phone contests this fall. With the
>> Yamaha headset through a sound card to the line input on the K3 I am
>> currently setting compression at 22, which gives me occasional
>> excursions on the CMP meter to around 8. A small sampling says it
>> sounds fine but "a little thin."
>>
>> What CMP setting do you use in contests?
>>
>> --
>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>>
>> The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
>> The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
>> reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
>> spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>

Pete Smith N4ZR

[K3} Why route microphone through a sound card?

In reply to this post by Nr4c

The compression control and TX EQ work normally. Gain has to be set
from the menu, for the Line In jack.

There are a couple of reasons why I do it this way. Mainly, it's because
I need to reset my Run F1 message "on the fly" when operating split on
the low bands. Say I want to operate 40m at 7130, listening 7065 - with
N1MM Logger I hold Ctrl+Shift+F1 and record a CQ specifying that
frequency. Then if I have to move my listening frequency again, I
rerecord as I transmit.

It's also convenient to be able to set my "live" audio and the recorded
audio to the same level. and thereafter adjust both with a single
control. I do this with a dummy load and I'm all set. Thereafter, if I
need to adjust, I do it with the master playback gain of the audio mixer
on my sound card, and needn't touch the radio.

And finally, putting both live and recorded audio through the same
channel helps to make sure they sound the same, even if the sound card
adds some white noise or unintentional shaping.

73, Pete N4ZR

The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

On 10/29/2010 1:10 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Could you explain why you are going thru a sound card to the LINE IN
> on the K3? I never considered this approach, and am wondering if the
> regular mic Gain/COM controls even work on this input. How about the
> TX EQ, does it work on this input as well?
>
> Curiouser and curiouser.
>
> ...bc
>
>
> Quoting Pete Smith<[hidden email]>:
>
>
>> I am setting up for a couple of phone contests this fall. With the
>> Yamaha headset through a sound card to the line input on the K3 I am
>> currently setting compression at 22, which gives me occasional
>> excursions on the CMP meter to around 8. A small sampling says it
>> sounds fine but "a little thin."
>>
>> What CMP setting do you use in contests?
>>
>> --
>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>>
>> The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
>> The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
>> reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
>> spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>

Matt Zilmer

Re: [K3] How much compression for contest use?

In reply to this post by The Smiths

Also an excellent suggestion!

matt

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:13:49 +0000, you wrote:

>
>Or you could just dump the mic and pick up a key... No compression necessary..
>
>> From: [hidden email]
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:06:23 -0700
>> CC: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] How much compression for contest use?
>>
>> With the CM500, I use MIC=22, CMP=25, MIC SEL=rP.H. This works for
>> about 1" of separation between lips and mic.
>>
>> If you have a lot of fan noise, might want to set CMP down a bit.
>>
>> matt W6NIA
>>
>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 06:33:59 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>> >I am setting up for a couple of phone contests this fall. With the
>> >Yamaha headset through a sound card to the line input on the K3 I am
>> >currently setting compression at 22, which gives me occasional
>> >excursions on the CMP meter to around 8. A small sampling says it
>> >sounds fine but "a little thin."
>> >
>> >What CMP setting do you use in contests?
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Phil Lonzello - WA6LDI

Re: [K3] How much compression for contest use?

In reply to this post by Pete Smith N4ZR

Greetings all! I would also like some assistance regarding the proper compression/mic setting for my K3. I've recently purchased a new Heil Pro Set Elite headset with the HC-6 element. I have my mic setting at 30 and my compression at 20. It appears to sound fine monitored in my headset and I have received good reports; however, it appears to be overdriving my THP HL-1.5KFX linear. I am driving it with approximately 80 watts output and have made the necessary adjustments to the ALC in conjunction with the amp, as per the amp's manual. I seem to be generating some local RFI (my TV) on peaks. This has occurred since I upgraded to the new Heil Pro Set Elite. When using my prior mic (Heil Pro Set Plus with the HC-4/HC-5 elements), I did not experience this issue. Any suggestions as to the proper mic/compression settings I can use to prevent overdriving my amp? Thank you for whatever suggestions you can recommend. 73, Phil-WA6LDI

Jim Brown-10

Re: [K3] How much compression for contest use?

On 10/29/2010 6:30 PM, Phil Lonzello - WA6LDI wrote:
> Any suggestions as to the proper
> mic/compression settings I can use to prevent overdriving my amp? Thank you
> for whatever suggestions you can recommend.

The instructions are exactly the same as I posted two days ago for the
other mic.

Your TVI problems may be the result of using ALC to control power. That
is a very bad idea. NEVER use ALC to set the amplifier power. ALWAYS
set the drive power to the amplifier by adjusting the POWER control on
the K3 to get the desired power out of the power amp. Use ALC ONLY to
protect the amp from problems when something goes wrong (like something
breaks in your antenna system, or you goof in tuning or switching the
antenna (we all do that).

73, Jim K9YC
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Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO

Re: [K3] How much compression for contest use?

That is exactly what I was going to write, Phil. DON'T use ALC to set drive
level. And make sure you follow the directions in the K3 manual EXACTLY when
setting up a new mic. Meter the ALC voltage on the K3 and set the mic gain
to produce 4-5 bars of INTERNAL ALC, no more. Then add compression as
desired for the best effect. You might also want to experiment with the
transmit equalization, especially by removing the first two (lowest) octaves
of response. Cut them all the way down as far as they will go. You don't
need or want any audio energy at those low frequencies. Jim probably covered
all that in his earlier post that he referred to. All mics should be set up
using this same procedure.

This was your original question -- and the answer as to how much
compression: IT DEPENDS. Compression fills in the "valleys" in your natural
speaking voice, so how much compression depends heavily on what you own
voice sounds like. Since you're asking about a contest, you will want to be
a little more aggressive on compression than you would for ordinary QSOing,
but not to the extent that your voice becomes distorted. There is no
substitute for intelligent on-air reports -- but if you are using locals for
reports, make sure they turn down the sensitivity of their receivers (back
off on the RF gain) so they are not creating internal IMD products that
would give you a false impression of your audio.

Bill W5WVO

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Brown
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 08:19
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] How much compression for contest use?

On 10/29/2010 6:30 PM, Phil Lonzello - WA6LDI wrote:
> Any suggestions as to the proper
> mic/compression settings I can use to prevent overdriving my amp? Thank
> you
> for whatever suggestions you can recommend.

The instructions are exactly the same as I posted two days ago for the
other mic.

Your TVI problems may be the result of using ALC to control power. That
is a very bad idea. NEVER use ALC to set the amplifier power. ALWAYS
set the drive power to the amplifier by adjusting the POWER control on
the K3 to get the desired power out of the power amp. Use ALC ONLY to
protect the amp from problems when something goes wrong (like something
breaks in your antenna system, or you goof in tuning or switching the
antenna (we all do that).

73, Jim K9YC
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: [K3] How much compression for contest use?

Bill,

When setting up for voice modes, that should be 5 to 7 bars on the ALC
display - and that must be done with compression backed off to zero.
Add compression as you want after setting the mic gain level.

It is 4 to 5 bars for data modes.

The fact is that the K3 "ALC" meter is like a VU meter. ALC action does
not start until the 4th bar - below that the meter just indicates the
audio drive level.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/30/2010 9:03 AM, Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO wrote:
> And make sure you follow the directions in the K3 manual EXACTLY when
> setting up a new mic. Meter the ALC voltage on the K3 and set the mic gain
> to produce 4-5 bars of INTERNAL ALC, no more. Then add compression as
> desired for the best effect. You might also want to experiment with the
> transmit equalization, especially by removing the first two (lowest) octaves
> of response. Cut them all the way down as far as they will go. You don't
> need or want any audio energy at those low frequencies.
>
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Phil Lonzello - WA6LDI

Re: [K3] How much compression for contest use?

Gentlemen (Jim Brown, Bill W5WVO & Don W3FPR),

I would like to thank each of you individually for the information you've provided in order to resolve the issue I'm currently experiencing. I will definitely take your suggestions and follow the directions as mentioned in the K3 manual along with your personal suggestions as well.

To clarifiy then, I do not need to adjust the ALC setting on the Tokyo HY-Power linear at all and only need to make the adjustments regarding the ALC on the K3 itself using the the meter for specific CMP and ALC bars as suggested. This should resolve my RFI problems then?

Regarding the Transmit EQ settings, I've adjusted the settings as follows per the Heil webpage suggestions: 0.05 to -12; 0.1 to -10; 0.2 to -6; 0.4 to -2; 0.8 to +0; 1.6 to +4; 2.4 to +6; and 3.2 to +10. If you have any corrections I should make, please advise.

Thanks again for all of your suggestions Gentlemen.

73 for now,
Phil WA6LDI

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: [K3] How much compression for contest use?

Phil,

Yes, that setup should be correct. The order of things is important.
First set the mic gain to give the proper amount of audio drive.
Secondly, bring the compression up to where you want it (use TX TEST and
the monitor to determine the correct levels)
Third adjust the K3 power level to properly drive your amp - that should
never drive the amplifier into its ALC range.

-- What that means is that the amplifier's ALC should never be
actually used - if connected, it should be only for the purpose of
protecting the amp should something happen (like wrong antenna) and the
AMP can bring up its ALC to reduce the power from the K3 in that instance.

I don't know the response of the microphone you are using, but Jim
Brown's usual starting point for the TX EQ with any microphone is to set
the first 2 bands at minimum and all others to zero. From there you can
do further refinements using either TX TEST and the K3 monitor (have
someone else who knows your voice do the listening to the monitor) or do
some on-the-air tests with someone who knows your voice well.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/30/2010 3:13 PM, Phil Lonzello - WA6LDI wrote:

> Gentlemen (Jim Brown, Bill W5WVO& Don W3FPR),
>
> I would like to thank each of you individually for the information you've
> provided in order to resolve the issue I'm currently experiencing. I will
> definitely take your suggestions and follow the directions as mentioned in
> the K3 manual along with your personal suggestions as well.
>
> To clarifiy then, I do not need to adjust the ALC setting on the Tokyo
> HY-Power linear at all and only need to make the adjustments regarding the
> ALC on the K3 itself using the the meter for specific CMP and ALC bars as
> suggested. This should resolve my RFI problems then?
>
> Regarding the Transmit EQ settings, I've adjusted the settings as follows
> per the Heil webpage suggestions: 0.05 to -12; 0.1 to -10; 0.2 to -6; 0.4
> to -2; 0.8 to +0; 1.6 to +4; 2.4 to +6; and 3.2 to +10. If you have any
> corrections I should make, please advise.
>
> Thanks again for all of your suggestions Gentlemen.
>
>

Mike Harris

Re: [K3] How much compression for contest use?

G'day,

One effect I've recently noticed it that if you use a hand mic and
have the compression set high you can get interesting power pulses
from the click of the PTT switch. I haven't tried the noise gate
yet to see if that helps.

Regards,

Mike VP8NO

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Phil Lonzello - WA6LDI

Re: [K3] How much compression for contest use?

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Hello again Don,

Thank you for your OUTSTANDING assistance! You've answered all of my questions and am anxious to bring it all together. I'll let you know how your recommended procedures work for me. Thanks again Don; I truly appreciate your help and that of the other gentlemen here on this forum.

Best 73 for now,
Phil WA6LDI