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K3: Is Width of Notch-Filter adjustable in some reasonable amount?

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Bob KD7YZ

K3: Is Width of Notch-Filter adjustable in some reasonable amount?

Howdy K3' people:

I am looking at some signals I'd like notched out. I am using WSJTx, a
Data-Mode .On 30m there is some constant garbage I was trying to remove.

However, it seems to be about 100Hz wider than the apparent notching
being done, as seen on the Waterfall around "2000" of the WSJTx display.

So, is there a hidden setting where I can make the Notch bout 400?? It
"seems" to be effective to "300" .

--
73
KD7YZ Bob

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Matt Zilmer-2

Re: K3: Is Width of Notch-Filter adjustable in some reasonable amount?

Hi Bob,

The K3's notch filter is designed to filter out CW signals. It's
about 200 Hz wide, not much more than that.

73,
matt

On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 08:28:13 -0400, you wrote:

>Howdy K3' people:
>
>I am looking at some signals I'd like notched out. I am using WSJTx, a
>Data-Mode .On 30m there is some constant garbage I was trying to remove.
>
>However, it seems to be about 100Hz wider than the apparent notching
>being done, as seen on the Waterfall around "2000" of the WSJTx display.
>
>So, is there a hidden setting where I can make the Notch bout 400?? It
>"seems" to be effective to "300" .

Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
www.elecraft.com
831-763-4211 x129

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Matt Zilmer-2

Re: K3: Is Width of Notch-Filter adjustable in some reasonable amount?

I didn't word that quite right.... CW = continuous carrier. It's
very good for SW BC carriers, but not intended for broader signals
like power supply gudge.

matt

On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 06:23:20 -0700, you wrote:

>Hi Bob,
>
>The K3's notch filter is designed to filter out CW signals. It's
>about 200 Hz wide, not much more than that.
>
>73,
>matt
>
>On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 08:28:13 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>Howdy K3' people:
>>
>>I am looking at some signals I'd like notched out. I am using WSJTx, a
>>Data-Mode .On 30m there is some constant garbage I was trying to remove.
>>
>>However, it seems to be about 100Hz wider than the apparent notching
>>being done, as seen on the Waterfall around "2000" of the WSJTx display.
>>
>>So, is there a hidden setting where I can make the Notch bout 400?? It
>>"seems" to be effective to "300" .
>

M0XDF

Re: K3: Is Width of Notch-Filter adjustable in some reasonable amount?

Ideal to mask carriers used by some to tune up on the freq that you'r trying to listen to.
73 de David, M0XDF (K3 #174, P3 #108)
--
The high minded man must care more for the truth than for what people
think. -Aristotle, philosopher (384-322 BCE)

On 23 Sep 2013, at 14:27, Matt Zilmer wrote:

> I didn't word that quite right.... CW = continuous carrier. It's
> very good for SW BC carriers, but not intended for broader signals
> like power supply gudge.
>
> matt
>
> On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 06:23:20 -0700, you wrote:
>
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> The K3's notch filter is designed to filter out CW signals. It's
>> about 200 Hz wide, not much more than that.
>>
>> 73,
>> matt
>>
>> On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 08:28:13 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>>> Howdy K3' people:
>>>
>>> I am looking at some signals I'd like notched out. I am using WSJTx, a
>>> Data-Mode .On 30m there is some constant garbage I was trying to remove.
>>>
>>> However, it seems to be about 100Hz wider than the apparent notching
>>> being done, as seen on the Waterfall around "2000" of the WSJTx display.
>>>
>>> So, is there a hidden setting where I can make the Notch bout 400?? It
>>> "seems" to be effective to "300" .
>>
>
> Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
> www.elecraft.com
> 831-763-4211 x129
>
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Bob KD7YZ

Re: K3: Is Width of Notch-Filter adjustable in some reasonable amount?

In reply to this post by Matt Zilmer-2

On Monday Zilmer used a Straight-Key to send:
-------------Original Comment-------
> I didn't word that quite right.... CW = continuous carrier. It's
> very good for SW BC carriers, but not intended for broader signals
> like power supply gudge.
nah, ya got it right ... there's a bunch of PSK-like tones as well as a
few spaced WSPR signals .... especially in the early morning. At that
time, for me, and on a 300 foot DP, they are really annoyingly strong. I
can neatly notch most, but the roughly 200Hz width would be neat if I
could make it wider or narrower ... like a surgical removal of
CW/Narrow-PSK modes/ WSPR

was just wondering. My K3 does so many things, most of them I haven't
discovered. Found nil in the manual; had to ask here "just in case".

--
Best regards,
Bob KD7YZ
http://www.qrz.com/db/KD7YZ

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Bill Frantz

Re: K3: Is Width of Notch-Filter adjustable in some reasonable amount?

In reply to this post by Matt Zilmer-2

It also works wonders to filter out loud PSK31 signals that are
overloading your audio A to D converter. Too bad auto notch
doesn't work in this situation. (I'd go after the strongest
signal in the DSP filter pass band.)

Cheers - Bill, AE6JV

-
On 9/23/13 at 6:23 AM, [hidden email] (Matt Zilmer) wrote:

>The K3's notch filter is designed to filter out [continuous carrier] signals. It's
>about 200 Hz wide, not much more than that.

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3: Is Width of Notch-Filter adjustable in some reasonable amount?

In reply to this post by Bob KD7YZ

Bob,

Instead of using a notch filter, how about narrowing the DSP filter
width to select the signal that you want.
Look on the waterfall for the audio frequency of the signal of interest
and adjust the SHIFT to that center frequency, then narrow the width to
isolate that signal.

It is much more effective in reducing the strong unwanted signals than
attempting to notch them.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/23/2013 12:22 PM, KD7YZ Bob wrote:

> On Monday Zilmer used a Straight-Key to send:
> -------------Original Comment-------
>> I didn't word that quite right.... CW = continuous carrier. It's
>> very good for SW BC carriers, but not intended for broader signals
>> like power supply gudge.
> nah, ya got it right ... there's a bunch of PSK-like tones as well as a
> few spaced WSPR signals .... especially in the early morning. At that
> time, for me, and on a 300 foot DP, they are really annoyingly strong. I
> can neatly notch most, but the roughly 200Hz width would be neat if I
> could make it wider or narrower ... like a surgical removal of
> CW/Narrow-PSK modes/ WSPR
>
> was just wondering. My K3 does so many things, most of them I haven't
> discovered. Found nil in the manual; had to ask here "just in case".
>
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3: Is Width of Notch-Filter adjustable in some reasonable amount?

> Instead of using a notch filter, how about narrowing the DSP filter
> width to select the signal that you want.

The problem is that both solutions occur *after* the A/D converter in
the radio! One wants to get rid of the "big signal" or the multitude
of moderate signals before they saturate the ADC (or activate HAGC)
in order to maintain maximum sensitivity for the weak signals.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 9/23/2013 1:40 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Bob,
>
> Instead of using a notch filter, how about narrowing the DSP filter
> width to select the signal that you want.
> Look on the waterfall for the audio frequency of the signal of interest
> and adjust the SHIFT to that center frequency, then narrow the width to
> isolate that signal.
>
> It is much more effective in reducing the strong unwanted signals than
> attempting to notch them.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 9/23/2013 12:22 PM, KD7YZ Bob wrote:
>> On Monday Zilmer used a Straight-Key to send:
>> -------------Original Comment-------
>>> I didn't word that quite right.... CW = continuous carrier. It's
>>> very good for SW BC carriers, but not intended for broader signals
>>> like power supply gudge.
>> nah, ya got it right ... there's a bunch of PSK-like tones as well as a
>> few spaced WSPR signals .... especially in the early morning. At that
>> time, for me, and on a 300 foot DP, they are really annoyingly strong. I
>> can neatly notch most, but the roughly 200Hz width would be neat if I
>> could make it wider or narrower ... like a surgical removal of
>> CW/Narrow-PSK modes/ WSPR
>>
>> was just wondering. My K3 does so many things, most of them I haven't
>> discovered. Found nil in the manual; had to ask here "just in case".
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>

Bob KD7YZ

Re: K3: Is Width of Notch-Filter adjustable in some reasonable amount?

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

On Monday Wilhelm used a Straight-Key to send:
-------------Original Comment-------
> Bob,

> Instead of using a notch filter, how about narrowing the DSP filter
> width to select the signal that you want.
>
Hi Don. And notwithstanding what W4TV said, I am using the DSP, namely
the Lo and the Hi, to truncate the"ends" of whichever
JT65/JT9 Band-Segment I am on. That I do because the RTTY people have a
horrible tendency to get right into the edges of what they perceive is
JT65 territory. So I start cutting off the ends, as needed, leaving a
fairly orderly slice for JT65/JT9, depending on which CQ I am answering.

Some places, or a place, can't remember at the moment, have plethora
WSPR and PSK kinda in the middle. So I began using the Notch after
asking around for ideas.

--
Best regards,
Bob KD7YZ
http://www.qrz.com/db/KD7YZ

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3: Is Width of Notch-Filter adjustable in some reasonable amount?

> Some places, or a place, can't remember at the moment, have plethora
> WSPR and PSK kinda in the middle.

30 meters.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 9/23/2013 4:28 PM, KD7YZ Bob wrote:

>
> On Monday Wilhelm used a Straight-Key to send:
> -------------Original Comment-------
>> Bob,
>
>> Instead of using a notch filter, how about narrowing the DSP filter
>> width to select the signal that you want.
>>
> Hi Don. And notwithstanding what W4TV said, I am using the DSP, namely
> the Lo and the Hi, to truncate the"ends" of whichever
> JT65/JT9 Band-Segment I am on. That I do because the RTTY people have a
> horrible tendency to get right into the edges of what they perceive is
> JT65 territory. So I start cutting off the ends, as needed, leaving a
> fairly orderly slice for JT65/JT9, depending on which CQ I am answering.
>
> Some places, or a place, can't remember at the moment, have plethora
> WSPR and PSK kinda in the middle. So I began using the Notch after
> asking around for ideas.
>
>

k6dgw

Re: K3: Is Width of Notch-Filter adjustable in some reasonable amount?

In reply to this post by Bob KD7YZ

Where do I find the definitions of "JTxx Territory?" I operate RTTY
only in a handful of contests, but I could be one of the encroachers.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2013 Cal QSO Party 5-6 Oct 2013
- www.cqp.org

On 9/23/2013 1:28 PM, KD7YZ Bob wrote:

> That I do because the RTTY people have a
> horrible tendency to get right into the edges of what they perceive is
> JT65 territory.

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3: Is Width of Notch-Filter adjustable in some reasonable amount?

JT65A tends to be found at xx.076-xx.0785 and JT9 tends to be found
at xx.0785-xx.080 on most HF bands (substitute 10.138, 18.102 and
24.917 for xx.076 on those bands).

Note most RTTY collisions involve the RTTY folks who park on xx.080
Mark (FSK displaying mark frequency). Since space shifts down, the
RTTY signal will chew up 300 Hz or more of the JT9 "center of activity."
The bigger problem is the WinLink (PACTOR) autobots that come up
anywhere in xx.075-xx.080 without listening for *any* other activity.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 9/23/2013 7:33 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> Where do I find the definitions of "JTxx Territory?" I operate RTTY
> only in a handful of contests, but I could be one of the encroachers.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the 2013 Cal QSO Party 5-6 Oct 2013
> - www.cqp.org
>
> On 9/23/2013 1:28 PM, KD7YZ Bob wrote:
>
>> That I do because the RTTY people have a
>> horrible tendency to get right into the edges of what they perceive is
>> JT65 territory.
>
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Vic Rosenthal

Re: K3: Is Width of Notch-Filter adjustable in some reasonable amount?

Just wait until the ARRL proposal for a 2.1 kHz digital mode bandwidth in the CW/digital
segments passes. Then we'll have autobots popping up that wipe out ten CW or narrow
digital QSOs in one blow!

On 9/23/2013 5:10 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
> JT65A tends to be found at xx.076-xx.0785 and JT9 tends to be found
> at xx.0785-xx.080 on most HF bands (substitute 10.138, 18.102 and
> 24.917 for xx.076 on those bands).
>
> Note most RTTY collisions involve the RTTY folks who park on xx.080
> Mark (FSK displaying mark frequency). Since space shifts down, the
> RTTY signal will chew up 300 Hz or more of the JT9 "center of activity."
> The bigger problem is the WinLink (PACTOR) autobots that come up
> anywhere in xx.075-xx.080 without listening for *any* other activity.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 9/23/2013 7:33 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
>> Where do I find the definitions of "JTxx Territory?" I operate RTTY
>> only in a handful of contests, but I could be one of the encroachers.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Fred K6DGW
>> - Northern California Contest Club
>> - CU in the 2013 Cal QSO Party 5-6 Oct 2013
>> - www.cqp.org
>>
>> On 9/23/2013 1:28 PM, KD7YZ Bob wrote:
>>
>>> That I do because the RTTY people have a
>>> horrible tendency to get right into the edges of what they perceive is
>>> JT65 territory.

--
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3: Is Width of Notch-Filter adjustable in some reasonable amount?

> Just wait until the ARRL proposal for a 2.1 kHz digital mode
> bandwidth in the CW/digital segments passes.

2.1 KHz bandwidth ... try 3 to 5 KHz!

I'm waiting on the Commission to post the proposal for comments -
then I will object to the unregulated bandwidth *and* propose that
RTTY/DATA be allowed *in the _phone_ bands*. After all, even narrow
digital QSOs are being squeezed badly on 80 meters and the "WARC"
bands as it is. There is certainly no problem with frequency
sharing between phone and data on six and two meters.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 9/23/2013 9:35 PM, Vic K2VCO wrote:

> Just wait until the ARRL proposal for a 2.1 kHz digital mode bandwidth
> in the CW/digital segments passes. Then we'll have autobots popping up
> that wipe out ten CW or narrow digital QSOs in one blow!
>
> On 9/23/2013 5:10 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>
>> JT65A tends to be found at xx.076-xx.0785 and JT9 tends to be found
>> at xx.0785-xx.080 on most HF bands (substitute 10.138, 18.102 and
>> 24.917 for xx.076 on those bands).
>>
>> Note most RTTY collisions involve the RTTY folks who park on xx.080
>> Mark (FSK displaying mark frequency). Since space shifts down, the
>> RTTY signal will chew up 300 Hz or more of the JT9 "center of activity."
>> The bigger problem is the WinLink (PACTOR) autobots that come up
>> anywhere in xx.075-xx.080 without listening for *any* other activity.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 9/23/2013 7:33 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
>>> Where do I find the definitions of "JTxx Territory?" I operate RTTY
>>> only in a handful of contests, but I could be one of the encroachers.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Fred K6DGW
>>> - Northern California Contest Club
>>> - CU in the 2013 Cal QSO Party 5-6 Oct 2013
>>> - www.cqp.org
>>>
>>> On 9/23/2013 1:28 PM, KD7YZ Bob wrote:
>>>
>>>> That I do because the RTTY people have a
>>>> horrible tendency to get right into the edges of what they perceive is
>>>> JT65 territory.
>

Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: K3: Is Width of Notch-Filter adjustable in some reasonable amount?

I was under the impression that CW (and Digital) were legal in the phone
bands, not that I've ever tried them there.

The problem isn't bandwidth as much as just plain poor operating
practice. Automated stations should not be exempt from the rules, or
common courtesy.

73 -- Lynn

On 9/23/2013 6:53 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> I'm waiting on the Commission to post the proposal for comments -
> then I will object to the unregulated bandwidth *and* propose that
> RTTY/DATA be allowed *in the _phone_ bands*.

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Bill Frantz

Re: K3: Is Width of Notch-Filter adjustable in some reasonable amount?

In the US, CW is legal in all frequencies of all bands except
60M. For most HF bands, digital is only legal in the lower part
of the bands -- AKA the CW portion.

On 9/23/13 at 7:51 PM, [hidden email] (Lynn W.
Taylor, WB6UUT) wrote:

>I was under the impression that CW (and Digital) were legal in
>the phone bands, not that I've ever tried them there.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz |The nice thing about standards| Periwinkle
(408)356-8506 |is there are so many to choose| 16345
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |from. - Andrew Tanenbaum | Los Gatos,
CA 95032

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k6dgw

Re: K3: Is Width of Notch-Filter adjustable in some reasonable amount?

On 9/23/2013 7:58 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
> In the US, CW is legal in all frequencies of all bands except 60M.

Actually, CW is legal on 60m, you just have to center your signal in the
"Channel". So is PSK, but not what we know as RTTY, despite what the
rule language says, at least yet.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2013 Cal QSO Party 5-6 Oct 2013
- www.cqp.org

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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: K3: Is Width of Notch-Filter adjustable in some reasonable amount?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Bill Frantz

Folks, we are drifting OT. Let's end this thread at this time.

73,

Eric
List Moderator
elecraft.com
---
Sent from my iPhone 5S

> On Sep 23, 2013, at 8:43 PM, "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Actually, since March of last year, CW, RTTY and data are now allowed on the
> 60 meter frequencies according to the latest reports I've seen from the ARRL
> and FCC. The emissions must adhere to the 2.8 kHz bandwidth allowed.
> ...
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