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[K3] KAT3 not functioning on 6m

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Bill Coleman-2

[K3] KAT3 not functioning on 6m

I upgraded my K3 to include the new KSYN3A back in November. (I have the KRX3, so I installed two of them)

Ever since then, it seems like the Antenna Tuner isn’t doing it’s thing on 6m. It works fine on the other bands.

The K3 doesn’t really show any other problems.

Here’s the symptoms:

- ATU not in bypass
- ANT1 or ANT2 - doesn’t matter.
- Press ATU Tune
- Unit makes noises like it is working on a match, but the entire time, the display only shows “- -“ in the right hand side of the display — at no time does it show an SWR.
- Eventually, unit gives up trying to find a match

What’s odd is this:

- Press Tune, unit outputs power, but no SWR is displayed in the right hand side of the display, only “- -“.

- However, if I transmit, I do see an SWR indication in the meter face, and the SWR seems accurate, depending on the antenna I choose.

I’m running firmware revision 5.67/2.88 — which is the latest, I believe.

Any ideas?

Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: [hidden email]
Web: http://boringhamradiopart.blogspot.com
Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!"
-- Wilbur Wright, 1901

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w4sc-2

Re: [K3] KAT3 not functioning on 6m

Bill

Upgrading to KSYN3A, you should run the High Power TXGAIN Calibration according to the installation instructions. Actually, I had to run the WATTMETER, and BOTH the LP (5W) and HP (50W) calibrations to “cure” the same issue you are observing.

Installing the KSYN3A in a K3 results in lower output on 6M when the KPA3 is active, i.e. the requested power is greater than 12W. When the power requested is less than 12W, the KPA3 is inactive (bypassed), the output power is within measuremt accuracy on an external wattmeter to what is requested by the K3 power setting control.

When the power requested is greater than 12 W, i.e. 100W for example, what I have observed is at 52.000MHz the external wattmeter reads 85W, and at 50.500MHz only 63W is realized. There is little difference in the output power measured in each case with/without KAT3 tuner “bypassed” or “enabled and matched” at the operating frequency’s outlined above.

It appears that this anomaly occurs only on 6M, I don’t know if there is a solution or fix for the above.

K3 F/W 5.67
Load 100W 30Db attenuator
Wattmeter HP736 with 8481 power sensor and Bird with appropriate elements.

Ben W4SC

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Bill Coleman-2

Re: [K3] KAT3 not functioning on 6m

In reply to this post by Bill Coleman-2

Update on this - this problem with the KAT3 ATU not working on 6m appears to be intermittent. Sometimes it will tune, sometimes it won’t. Weird.

> On May 17, 2020, at 6:38 PM, Bill Coleman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I upgraded my K3 to include the new KSYN3A back in November. (I have the KRX3, so I installed two of them)
>
> Ever since then, it seems like the Antenna Tuner isn’t doing it’s thing on 6m. It works fine on the other bands.
>
> The K3 doesn’t really show any other problems.
>
> Here’s the symptoms:
>
> - ATU not in bypass
> - ANT1 or ANT2 - doesn’t matter.
> - Press ATU Tune
> - Unit makes noises like it is working on a match, but the entire time, the display only shows “- -“ in the right hand side of the display — at no time does it show an SWR.
> - Eventually, unit gives up trying to find a match
>
> What’s odd is this:
>
> - Press Tune, unit outputs power, but no SWR is displayed in the right hand side of the display, only “- -“.
>
> - However, if I transmit, I do see an SWR indication in the meter face, and the SWR seems accurate, depending on the antenna I choose.
>
> I’m running firmware revision 5.67/2.88 — which is the latest, I believe.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: [hidden email]
> Web: http://boringhamradiopart.blogspot.com
> Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!"
> -- Wilbur Wright, 1901
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

w4sc-2

Re: [K3] KAT3 not functioning on 6m

In reply to this post by Bill Coleman-2

Bill,

I had an issue very similar. The “Automatic TXGain” procedure is performed at 52 MHz. I was using a 50 ohm load attached, and at 50.125 the KAT3 have trouble matching the load. Also it appears there is not enough power out in the lower part of the band for the SWR bridge to function.

Part of the problem is I believe, the f/w switches the KPA3 ON at 8 watts instead of the usual 12………..

Performing a MANUAL TX Gain procedure on 6M may help.

Here is link to post I made several weeks ago.

https://www.mail-archive.com/elecraft@.../msg241436.html

73 de Ben W4SC

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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Bill Coleman-2

Re: [K3] KAT3 not functioning on 6m

OK, I figured this out, sort of.

Every time I’ve had trouble with the KAT3 not tuning, the K3 has been in split mode.

By taking the K3 out of split mode, I’m able to turn on 6m correctly.

Oddly, though, when I return to split mode, it still works.

I’m not sure why I see this issue, but I’m glad I can work around it.

Split mode is often configured due to the WSJT-X settings, depending on the frequencies used.

> On Sep 5, 2020, at 9:01 PM, w4sc <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> I had an issue very similar. The “Automatic TXGain” procedure is performed at 52 MHz. I was using a 50 ohm load attached, and at 50.125 the KAT3 have trouble matching the load. Also it appears there is not enough power out in the lower part of the band for the SWR bridge to function.
>
> Part of the problem is I believe, the f/w switches the KPA3 ON at 8 watts instead of the usual 12………..
>
> Performing a MANUAL TX Gain procedure on 6M may help.
>
> Here is link to post I made several weeks ago.
>
> https://www.mail-archive.com/elecraft@.../msg241436.html
>
> 73 de Ben W4SC
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10

exbpi

Re: [K3] KAT3 not functioning on 6m

Bill,

Why are you running split in WSJT? The only time you actually need split is when operating 2 different frequencies like working JA's on 160 when they used to be required to transmit on 1908 KHz and we transmitted on 1840 kHZ (they now can operate on 1840). Unless you are actually needing to receive on one frequency and transmit on another, set the radio configuration to "Fake It" instead of "split". That will keep your transmit frequency in the middle of your transmit bandpass. There is no actual frequency change in WSJT including DX expedition mode.

GL

Mike
K7PI

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Bill Coleman
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 13:08
To: w4sc <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] KAT3 not functioning on 6m

OK, I figured this out, sort of.

Every time I’ve had trouble with the KAT3 not tuning, the K3 has been in split mode.

By taking the K3 out of split mode, I’m able to turn on 6m correctly.

Oddly, though, when I return to split mode, it still works.

I’m not sure why I see this issue, but I’m glad I can work around it.

Split mode is often configured due to the WSJT-X settings, depending on the frequencies used.

Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: [hidden email]
Web: http://boringhamradiopart.blogspot.com
Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!"
-- Wilbur Wright, 1901

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Bill Coleman-2

Re: [K3] KAT3 not functioning on 6m

This is a feature of WSJT-X. If you have the Split Operation selection set to “Rig”, WSJT-X will always use Split mode.

It sets the transmit frequency higher or lower in 500 Hz increments. The main reason for this is to keep the generated audio in the middle of the SSB passband, but high enough to allow harmonics to be outside the passband.

So, for example, if you select 400 Hz as your transmit frequency, WSJT-X will set the TX frequency 1.5 kHz lower, and then generate transmission tones around 1900 Hz. If you set the frequency to 2000 Hz, it will set the TX frequency 500 Hz higher, but the tone generated is about 1500 Hz.

The net result is the same — the transmitted tones are always between 1500-1999 Hz.

And even if you select a transmit frequency between 1500-1999 Hz, WSJT-X will always use split operation. (Although in this case, the RX and TX frequency will be identical)

> On Sep 6, 2020, at 4:40 PM, <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> Why are you running split in WSJT? The only time you actually need split is when operating 2 different frequencies like working JA's on 160 when they used to be required to transmit on 1908 KHz and we transmitted on 1840 kHZ (they now can operate on 1840). Unless you are actually needing to receive on one frequency and transmit on another, set the radio configuration to "Fake It" instead of "split". That will keep your transmit frequency in the middle of your transmit bandpass. There is no actual frequency change in WSJT including DX expedition mode.
>
> GL
>
> Mike
> K7PI
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Bill Coleman
> Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 13:08
> To: w4sc <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] KAT3 not functioning on 6m
>
> OK, I figured this out, sort of.
>
> Every time I’ve had trouble with the KAT3 not tuning, the K3 has been in split mode.
>
> By taking the K3 out of split mode, I’m able to turn on 6m correctly.
>
> Oddly, though, when I return to split mode, it still works.
>
> I’m not sure why I see this issue, but I’m glad I can work around it.
>
> Split mode is often configured due to the WSJT-X settings, depending on the frequencies used.
>
>> On Sep 5, 2020, at 9:01 PM, w4sc <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> I had an issue very similar. The “Automatic TXGain” procedure is performed at 52 MHz. I was using a 50 ohm load attached, and at 50.125 the KAT3 have trouble matching the load. Also it appears there is not enough power out in the lower part of the band for the SWR bridge to function.
>>
>> Part of the problem is I believe, the f/w switches the KPA3 ON at 8 watts instead of the usual 12………..
>>
>> Performing a MANUAL TX Gain procedure on 6M may help.
>>
>> Here is link to post I made several weeks ago.
>>
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/elecraft@.../msg241436.html
>>
>> 73 de Ben W4SC
>>
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: [hidden email]
> Web: http://boringhamradiopart.blogspot.com
> Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!"
> -- Wilbur Wright, 1901
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

w4sc-2

Re: [K3] KAT3 not functioning on 6m

In reply to this post by Bill Coleman-2

Bill,

The K3 only allows the “split” mode for SSB and/or CW to be enabled, at least from panel. Trying to enable split in any other mode, the VFO B window flashes “N/A”. You may have different indications / results if the split command is sent via the CAT, and a mode other than CW or SSB is selected.

Ben W4SC

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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Richard Ferch-2

Re: [K3] KAT3 not functioning on 6m

In reply to this post by Bill Coleman-2

The K3 allows split in data modes, but only provided both VFOs are already
in data mode. The K3 will not allow cross-mode split between Data and
CW/SSB.

If you are seeing "SPL N/A" when you try to enable split with VFO A in a
Data mode, what that tells me is that VFO B is in CW or SSB, not in Data
mode. When VFO B is not already in the same mode as VFO A, tap A>B twice to
transfer the VFO A mode into VFO B before pressing Split.

73,
Rich VE3KI

W4SC said:

The K3 only allows the "split" mode for SSB and/or CW to be enabled, at
least from \
panel. Trying to enable split in any other mode, the VFO B window flashes
"N/A". \
You may have different indications / results if the split command is sent
via the \
CAT, and a mode other than CW or SSB is selected.
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Bill Coleman-2

Re: [K3] KAT3 not functioning on 6m

In reply to this post by w4sc-2

No, that’s not it. The right is ALREADY in split mode when i attempt to use the auto-tune.

You get the N/A flash if VFO A and B aren’t set to the same mode, other than SSB/CW.

WSJT-X sets it up correctly, with both VFOs in DATA mode.

> On Sep 7, 2020, at 9:50 AM, w4sc <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> The K3 only allows the “split” mode for SSB and/or CW to be enabled, at least from panel. Trying to enable split in any other mode, the VFO B window flashes “N/A”. You may have different indications / results if the split command is sent via the CAT, and a mode other than CW or SSB is selected.
>
> Ben W4SC
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: [hidden email]
Web: http://boringhamradiopart.blogspot.com
Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!"
-- Wilbur Wright, 1901

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Elecraft mailing list

[P3] REF LVL changes - normal behavior?

In reply to this post by Richard Ferch-2

Hey guys, I am seeing this behavior on my P3 and am wondering if this is how it's supposed to work or or there is something wrong.

I set the REF LVL so I am just above the noise floor and then randomly a few minutes later either the floor goes way down or way up. In other words, I adjust the waterfall to show normal then randomly it will show nothing at all except the strongest peaks as if I adjusted the REF LVL way up or it shows a lot of noise as if I adjusted the REF LVL way down. So I have to keep an eye on it and constantly adjust the REF LVL. Its been doing this for the past 6 months or so it didn’t always do this.

The P3 is connected to my K3s which is having no problems. ATT is on, pre-amp off, AGC is fast.

Cheers!
Michael
KK6RWK

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Nr4c

Re: [K3] KAT3 not functioning on 6m

In reply to this post by w4sc-2

The K3 will allow Split in Data modes as well. But both VFOs must be in same Mode/sub mode first.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Sep 7, 2020, at 9:52 AM, w4sc <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> The K3 only allows the “split” mode for SSB and/or CW to be enabled, at least from panel. Trying to enable split in any other mode, the VFO B window flashes “N/A”. You may have different indications / results if the split command is sent via the CAT, and a mode other than CW or SSB is selected.
>
> Ben W4SC
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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Nr4c

Re: [K3] KAT3 not functioning on 6m

In reply to this post by w4sc-2

The K3 will allow Split in Data modes as well. But both VFOs must be in same Mode/sub mode first. I

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

Sverre Holm (LA3ZA)

Re: [K3] KAT3 not functioning on 6m

In reply to this post by exbpi

This thread saved me. I thought my k3 antenna tuner had malfunctioned on 6 m,
but luckily it was only because it was in Split (Data mode). The erratic
behavior of the ATU and the SWR are quite confusing though as they tell you
nothing about this cause.

-----
Sverre, LA3ZA

K2 #2198, K3 #3391,
LA3ZA Blog: http://la3za.blogspot.com,
LA3ZA Unofficial Guide to K2 modifications: http://la3za.blogspot.com/p/la3za-unofficial-guide-to-elecraft-k2.html
--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Sverre, LA3ZA

K2 #2198, K3 #3391,
LA3ZA Blog: http://la3za.blogspot.com,
LA3ZA Unofficial Guide to K2 modifications: http://la3za.blogspot.com/p/la3za-unofficial-guide-to-elecraft-k2.html