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K3 / KPA500 / KAT500 Tuning

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Jim Bennett

K3 / KPA500 / KAT500 Tuning

Folks, sorry if this has been discussed on the reflector before, but I've looked through the archives and drew a blank. I know I saw it but try as I may, can't find any related posts.

I just this week added a KPA500 and KAT500 to my K3 station. Documentation sez that the KAT500 tunes best when the K3 is set to 25 watts of tune power. OK, got that set. But, what ideally should happen is that if the amp is in OPER mode and I press & hold the TUNE button on the K3, the amp should temporarily go to STBY mode until the tuner has finished doing it's thing. It doesn't - the amp fires out 450 - 500 watts - not cool.

Have I missed a setting somewhere that will make this happen, in case I forget to put the amp in standby mode, before I run a tune cycle?

Tnx, Jim / W6JHB
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Dick Dievendorff-4

Re: K3 / KPA500 / KAT500 Tuning

Sounds like the amplifier key interrupt may not be working. Do you by chance have both the RCA cable and 15 pin ACC cable connected? The wiring diagrams in the KAT500 are important. The amp doesn't switch to standby, instead its key line is broken by the KAT500 so the amp doesn't amplify during ATU tuning.

The ATU won't tune if it sees more than exciter level power.

Dick, K6KR

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 12, 2013, at 11:40, Jim Bennett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Folks, sorry if this has been discussed on the reflector before, but I've looked through the archives and drew a blank. I know I saw it but try as I may, can't find any related posts.
>
> I just this week added a KPA500 and KAT500 to my K3 station. Documentation sez that the KAT500 tunes best when the K3 is set to 25 watts of tune power. OK, got that set. But, what ideally should happen is that if the amp is in OPER mode and I press & hold the TUNE button on the K3, the amp should temporarily go to STBY mode until the tuner has finished doing it's thing. It doesn't - the amp fires out 450 - 500 watts - not cool.
>
> Have I missed a setting somewhere that will make this happen, in case I forget to put the amp in standby mode, before I run a tune cycle?
>
> Tnx, Jim / W6JHB
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Ken Wagner K3IU

Re: K3 / KPA500 / KAT500 Tuning

In reply to this post by Jim Bennett

Jim:
Did you press the "Tune" button on the KAT500 before
pressing the TUNE button on the K3?
73, Ken K3IU
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On 11/12/2013 2:40 PM, Jim Bennett wrote:

> Folks, sorry if this has been discussed on the reflector before, but I've looked through the archives and drew a blank. I know I saw it but try as I may, can't find any related posts.
>
> I just this week added a KPA500 and KAT500 to my K3 station. Documentation sez that the KAT500 tunes best when the K3 is set to 25 watts of tune power. OK, got that set. But, what ideally should happen is that if the amp is in OPER mode and I press & hold the TUNE button on the K3, the amp should temporarily go to STBY mode until the tuner has finished doing it's thing. It doesn't - the amp fires out 450 - 500 watts - not cool.
>
> Have I missed a setting somewhere that will make this happen, in case I forget to put the amp in standby mode, before I run a tune cycle?
>
> Tnx, Jim / W6JHB
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Buck - k4ia

Re: K3 / KPA500 / KAT500 Tuning

In reply to this post by Jim Bennett

Is it possible that your antenna is tuned already? If it weren't, and
the SWR were too high, you would not get 500 watts out of the amp. You
would get a FAULT message and the whole thing would shut down.

Buck
k4ia

On 11/12/2013 2:40 PM, Jim Bennett wrote:

Cady, Fred

Re: K3 / KPA500 / KAT500 Tuning

Jim. Be sure to set up the KAT500 Configuration:
Amplifier Key Interrupt Power = Optimize for KPA500 (not the default 30 w)
Amplifier Key Interrupt VSWR Threshold = ~2.5:1 (not the default 99:1)
I set the Autotune VSWR Threshold to 1.8:1 (or maybe that is the default)

In the K3 set PWR SET to Per Band and TUN PWR to nor.

Cheers,
73,
Fred KE7X
"The Elecraft K3: Design, Configuration and Operation 2nd ed"
"The Elecraft KX3 - Going for the summit"
www.ke7x.com or www.lulu.com
(Coming soon with explanations of all this: "The Elecraft KPA500 and KAT500 - the K-Line Dream Station")

Fred Cady
fcady at ieee dot org

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:elecraft-
> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Buck - k4ia
> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 1:32 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 / KPA500 / KAT500 Tuning
>
> Is it possible that your antenna is tuned already? If it weren't, and
> the SWR were too high, you would not get 500 watts out of the amp. You
> would get a FAULT message and the whole thing would shut down.
>
> Buck
> k4ia
>
> On 11/12/2013 2:40 PM, Jim Bennett wrote:
> > Folks, sorry if this has been discussed on the reflector before, but
> I've looked through the archives and drew a blank. I know I saw it but
> try as I may, can't find any related posts.
> >
> > I just this week added a KPA500 and KAT500 to my K3 station.
> Documentation sez that the KAT500 tunes best when the K3 is set to 25
> watts of tune power. OK, got that set. But, what ideally should happen
> is that if the amp is in OPER mode and I press & hold the TUNE button
> on the K3, the amp should temporarily go to STBY mode until the tuner
> has finished doing it's thing. It doesn't - the amp fires out 450 - 500
> watts - not cool.
> >
> > Have I missed a setting somewhere that will make this happen, in case
> I forget to put the amp in standby mode, before I run a tune cycle?
> >
> > Tnx, Jim / W6JHB
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Jim Bennett

Re: K3 / KPA500 / KAT500 Tuning

In reply to this post by Dick Dievendorff-4

No, don't have the RCA cable - only the K3-->KAT500-->KPA500 cables. What I do have is an inability to read and pay attention to what I'm reading!!!

Good grief - I had been using a third party tuner until I put the KAT500 together and the process is a tad different. Now I see what was happening. The tuner already had a match and did not bother to disable the amp when I pressed the tune button on the K3. Also, after re-reading the manual, I see that pressing the tune button on the KAT500 will force a re-tune when the K3 sends RF.

Once again, operator. A learning process...

Thanks for the help!

Jim

On Tuesday, Nov 12, 2013, at Tuesday, 11:46 AM, Dick Dievendorff wrote:

> Sounds like the amplifier key interrupt may not be working. Do you by chance have both the RCA cable and 15 pin ACC cable connected? The wiring diagrams in the KAT500 are important. The amp doesn't switch to standby, instead its key line is broken by the KAT500 so the amp doesn't amplify during ATU tuning.
>
> The ATU won't tune if it sees more than exciter level power.
>
> Dick, K6KR
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 12, 2013, at 11:40, Jim Bennett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Folks, sorry if this has been discussed on the reflector before, but I've looked through the archives and drew a blank. I know I saw it but try as I may, can't find any related posts.
>>
>> I just this week added a KPA500 and KAT500 to my K3 station. Documentation sez that the KAT500 tunes best when the K3 is set to 25 watts of tune power. OK, got that set. But, what ideally should happen is that if the amp is in OPER mode and I press & hold the TUNE button on the K3, the amp should temporarily go to STBY mode until the tuner has finished doing it's thing. It doesn't - the amp fires out 450 - 500 watts - not cool.
>>
>> Have I missed a setting somewhere that will make this happen, in case I forget to put the amp in standby mode, before I run a tune cycle?
>>
>> Tnx, Jim / W6JHB
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Jim Bennett

Re: K3 / KPA500 / KAT500 Tuning

In reply to this post by Cady, Fred

Thanks Fred!

Unfortunately, the KAT500 utility does not see my KAT500. Been doing exhaustive testing with Elecraft support and they've concluded that I have a bad circuit on the KAT500 board. I've tried two different cables (known to work with the 2 meter module), two different operating systems (Mac OS X and Windows) and two different computers (MacBook Air and iMac). They are sending me a replacement board so it looks like I'll be re-assembling the KAT500 later this week!

Jim

(Looking forward to that K-Line book!!)

On Tuesday, Nov 12, 2013, at Tuesday, 12:59 PM, Cady, Fred wrote:

> Jim. Be sure to set up the KAT500 Configuration:
> Amplifier Key Interrupt Power = Optimize for KPA500 (not the default 30 w)
> Amplifier Key Interrupt VSWR Threshold = ~2.5:1 (not the default 99:1)
> I set the Autotune VSWR Threshold to 1.8:1 (or maybe that is the default)
>
> In the K3 set PWR SET to Per Band and TUN PWR to nor.
>
> Cheers,
> 73,
> Fred KE7X
> "The Elecraft K3: Design, Configuration and Operation 2nd ed"
> "The Elecraft KX3 - Going for the summit"
> www.ke7x.com or www.lulu.com
> (Coming soon with explanations of all this: "The Elecraft KPA500 and KAT500 - the K-Line Dream Station")
>
> Fred Cady
> fcady at ieee dot org
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:elecraft-
>> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Buck - k4ia
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 1:32 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 / KPA500 / KAT500 Tuning
>>
>> Is it possible that your antenna is tuned already? If it weren't, and
>> the SWR were too high, you would not get 500 watts out of the amp. You
>> would get a FAULT message and the whole thing would shut down.
>>
>> Buck
>> k4ia
>>
>> On 11/12/2013 2:40 PM, Jim Bennett wrote:
>>> Folks, sorry if this has been discussed on the reflector before, but
>> I've looked through the archives and drew a blank. I know I saw it but
>> try as I may, can't find any related posts.
>>>
>>> I just this week added a KPA500 and KAT500 to my K3 station.
>> Documentation sez that the KAT500 tunes best when the K3 is set to 25
>> watts of tune power. OK, got that set. But, what ideally should happen
>> is that if the amp is in OPER mode and I press & hold the TUNE button
>> on the K3, the amp should temporarily go to STBY mode until the tuner
>> has finished doing it's thing. It doesn't - the amp fires out 450 - 500
>> watts - not cool.
>>>
>>> Have I missed a setting somewhere that will make this happen, in case
>> I forget to put the amp in standby mode, before I run a tune cycle?
>>>
>>> Tnx, Jim / W6JHB
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2

Re: K3 / KPA500 / KAT500 Tuning

In reply to this post by Dick Dievendorff-4

Hi all,

Now that we are talking about the tuning of the K3 line. As a matter of
fact, I have the K3-KPA500-KAT500 combo and when tuned, it workes just
fine.All is working as it should but still, this combunation can do much
better. The tuning process is not so smooth as I would expect it to be.
The K3 line is supposed to have great integration, and I dare to say:
yes it has integration BUT up to a certain level.
Yes, we have bandswitching in place (everybody has that)
Yes, the KPA goes off line when tuning and fires immediately after the
tuning process (good from Elecraft).
Yes, the KAT remembers the setting per band and per band segment (not
special)
In total: absolutely Good.

Here's what I miss and why.
I often take the K3-line with me to other places, and at home my
antenna-impedance reacts to rain pretty quick so retuning is often
necesarry.
The tuning proces is not as I would expect from a well integrated line.
I have to press two tune buttons to do so, switch on the K3 signal (tune
button) and then press the tune button on the KAT500. After that, stop
the signal from the K3 (tune button again)

How smooth would it be that I could press the tune button on the KAT500
and the KPA500 would go to standby (it does that already) and the K3
gives the tuning signal automatically as long as the tuning process of
the KAT500 needs it. This would then work the same way as the tuning of
the K3 and its internal tuner.

Off course I would like the badsegment info for the KAT500 transferred
from the K3 via the AUX cable instead of plain RF, but that has been
discussed many times. I wonder if it could be done like this: send the
bandsegment info from the K3 as soon as the K3 gives PTT. How is this
done inside the K3? It switches the tuner to the right bandsegment
setting when the PTT goes to on.

Does this give an opening to programmers or is it just impossible
because of the hardware that is involved? Then I'll be silent :-)

73
Arie PA3A

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Jim Bennett

Re: K3 / KPA500 / KAT500 Tuning

In reply to this post by Jim Bennett

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions - the issue has been resolved, and the K-Line is now work as it should, per the manual. Had a bad board in the KAT500 and was unable to run the KAT500 Utility program. And that meant I was not able to set it for optimizing for the KPA500. Put in the new board this afternoon and bingo - working fine!

73, Jim / W6JHB
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