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K3/KX3 Operating Tip: APF (audio peaking filter) for weak-signal CW work

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wayne burdick

K3/KX3 Operating Tip: APF (audio peaking filter) for weak-signal CW work

Administrator

Both the K3 and KX3 have an APF control (audio peaking filter). APF
can be extremely effective when you're trying to copy weak CW signals
buried in noise.

Most DSP filters have very steep skirts; they're often referred to as
"brick-wall" filters for this reason. This is the type of filtering
associated with the WIDTH control (K3) or PBT control (KX3).

In contrast, the APF is a filter with a very narrow peak (about 30 Hz
at the -3 dB points) and very broad skirts. The narrow peak brings up
the signal amplitude slightly, while the broad skirts prevent noise
from being amplified and delayed in such a way as to dominate the
signal. The APF function used in the K3 and KX3 is a modern DSP
reinterpretation of the hardware APF circuit found on some legacy
transceivers, which was very effective.

On the KX3, the APF switch is labeled "APF" (tap), while on the K3,
it's labeled "DUAL PB" (hold). The K3 actually provides two different
special filter functions; use the DUAL PB menu entry to set up the
switch for APF.

When you turn on APF, the DSP graphic changes to remind you of the
nature of APF, with its narrow peak and broad skirts.

I suggest setting the passband width to about 250-300 Hz when using
APF. The DSP graphic still shows an approximate representation of the
width even with APF turned on.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Andy Faber

Re: K3/KX3 Operating Tip: APF (audio peaking filter) forweak-signal CW work

Wayne,
I was pleased to see the APF added to the K3, though I think it is not as
useful on radios with such good basic filtering, as compared to older
radios. OTOH: it's a favorite feature of my old FT1000D!
73, andy ae6y

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Burdick
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 11:19 AM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] K3/KX3 Operating Tip: APF (audio peaking filter)
forweak-signal CW work

Both the K3 and KX3 have an APF control (audio peaking filter). APF
can be extremely effective when you're trying to copy weak CW signals
buried in noise.

Most DSP filters have very steep skirts; they're often referred to as
"brick-wall" filters for this reason. This is the type of filtering
associated with the WIDTH control (K3) or PBT control (KX3).

In contrast, the APF is a filter with a very narrow peak (about 30 Hz
at the -3 dB points) and very broad skirts. The narrow peak brings up
the signal amplitude slightly, while the broad skirts prevent noise
from being amplified and delayed in such a way as to dominate the
signal. The APF function used in the K3 and KX3 is a modern DSP
reinterpretation of the hardware APF circuit found on some legacy
transceivers, which was very effective.

On the KX3, the APF switch is labeled "APF" (tap), while on the K3,
it's labeled "DUAL PB" (hold). The K3 actually provides two different
special filter functions; use the DUAL PB menu entry to set up the
switch for APF.

When you turn on APF, the DSP graphic changes to remind you of the
nature of APF, with its narrow peak and broad skirts.

I suggest setting the passband width to about 250-300 Hz when using
APF. The DSP graphic still shows an approximate representation of the
width even with APF turned on.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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wayne burdick

Re: K3/KX3 Operating Tip: APF (audio peaking filter) forweak-signal CW work

Administrator

It really does make a difference on some signals, even on the K3 and
KX3, especially when there's a lot of band noise.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Jun 26, 2012, at 12:17 PM, Andrew Faber wrote:

> Wayne,
> I was pleased to see the APF added to the K3, though I think it is
> not as useful on radios with such good basic filtering, as compared
> to older radios. OTOH: it's a favorite feature of my old FT1000D!
> 73, andy ae6y
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Burdick
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 11:19 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3/KX3 Operating Tip: APF (audio peaking filter)
> forweak-signal CW work
>
> Both the K3 and KX3 have an APF control (audio peaking filter). APF
> can be extremely effective when you're trying to copy weak CW signals
> buried in noise.
>
> Most DSP filters have very steep skirts; they're often referred to as
> "brick-wall" filters for this reason. This is the type of filtering
> associated with the WIDTH control (K3) or PBT control (KX3).
>
> In contrast, the APF is a filter with a very narrow peak (about 30 Hz
> at the -3 dB points) and very broad skirts. The narrow peak brings up
> the signal amplitude slightly, while the broad skirts prevent noise
> from being amplified and delayed in such a way as to dominate the
> signal. The APF function used in the K3 and KX3 is a modern DSP
> reinterpretation of the hardware APF circuit found on some legacy
> transceivers, which was very effective.
>
> On the KX3, the APF switch is labeled "APF" (tap), while on the K3,
> it's labeled "DUAL PB" (hold). The K3 actually provides two different
> special filter functions; use the DUAL PB menu entry to set up the
> switch for APF.
>
> When you turn on APF, the DSP graphic changes to remind you of the
> nature of APF, with its narrow peak and broad skirts.
>
> I suggest setting the passband width to about 250-300 Hz when using
> APF. The DSP graphic still shows an approximate representation of the
> width even with APF turned on.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Jeff Herr

"random wire" and the KX3 ATU

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

I know folks who have had bad experiences using a "random" wire with an ATU.

Although I ordered a buddipole with the kx3 I still am interested in getting
A 74 foot length of wire up in the pine trees (I will have a counterpoise)
while up in the
Lassen national forest.....we go there a lot.

When I mention this I am met with much skepticism.

Am I way off base? Is this beyond the capabilities of the tuner?
Is there a descriptive spec for the tuner that describes the range of it
matching capability?

WW6L

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wayne burdick

Re: "random wire" and the KX3 ATU

Administrator

Jeff,

The KXAT3 has a very wide tuning range and is specifically designed
for use with random-length antennas. Typically any wire longer than
20' or so can be tuned up on 40-6 meters. A 74-foot antenna will
probably be tunable to reasonable SWR on 160-6.

A random wire antenna can work very well -- comparable to a vertical
or dipole depending on the band, radiation angle, and your ground
system (if the random wire is worked against radials).

I use random wires almost exclusively. The KXAT3 does an excellent job
with them. It will also do other magic tricks like make an 80-meter
dipole work on all bands, or a 20-meter yagi work on 30-6 meters, etc.
Efficiency will vary, but the transmitter will be happy.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Jun 26, 2012, at 7:55 PM, Jeff Herr wrote:

> I know folks who have had bad experiences using a "random" wire with
> an ATU.
>
> Although I ordered a buddipole with the kx3 I still am interested in
> getting
> A 74 foot length of wire up in the pine trees (I will have a
> counterpoise)
> while up in the
> Lassen national forest.....we go there a lot.
>
> When I mention this I am met with much skepticism.
>
> Am I way off base? Is this beyond the capabilities of the tuner?
> Is there a descriptive spec for the tuner that describes the range
> of it
> matching capability?
>
> WW6L
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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Phil Shepard

Re: "random wire" and the KX3 ATU

As an example, I used a 40m Extended Double Zepp for field day. This is an
180' wire center fed with ladder line. My FD installation had about 60' of
ladder line hanging down to the rig. Ordinarily, I would use a toroid to
make a balun to the rig, but I didn't have a suitable form in my junk box,
so I hooked the ladder line to a BNC to dual banana binding post adapter.
The KX3 ATU did fine in matching from 80 to 10m, except on 40m. On the
other bands, the match was 1:1 or close, but on 40m, the tuner struggled to
get down to 3:1 or so. I added a 33' "radial" wire to the ground side of
the banana adapter and ran it under the antenna, keeping it 2 to 3' above
the ground. With this addition, the ATU could usually get close to 1:1 on
40m. The antenna seemed to play well, so the efficiency must not have been
too bad. I was impressed with the KX3 for many reasons, including its ATU.

73,
Phil, NS7P

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 9:09 PM
To: Jeff Herr
Cc: 'Elecraft Reflector'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] "random wire" and the KX3 ATU

Jeff,

The KXAT3 has a very wide tuning range and is specifically designed
for use with random-length antennas. Typically any wire longer than
20' or so can be tuned up on 40-6 meters. A 74-foot antenna will
probably be tunable to reasonable SWR on 160-6.

A random wire antenna can work very well -- comparable to a vertical
or dipole depending on the band, radiation angle, and your ground
system (if the random wire is worked against radials).

I use random wires almost exclusively. The KXAT3 does an excellent job
with them. It will also do other magic tricks like make an 80-meter
dipole work on all bands, or a 20-meter yagi work on 30-6 meters, etc.
Efficiency will vary, but the transmitter will be happy.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Jun 26, 2012, at 7:55 PM, Jeff Herr wrote:

wayne burdick

Re: "random wire" and the KX3 ATU

Administrator

Well done, Phil. Experimenting with antennas is half the fun, IMHO.

Wayne

On Jun 26, 2012, at 9:38 PM, Phillip Shepard wrote:

> As an example, I used a 40m Extended Double Zepp for field day.
> This is an
> 180' wire center fed with ladder line. My FD installation had about
> 60' of
> ladder line hanging down to the rig. Ordinarily, I would use a
> toroid to
> make a balun to the rig, but I didn't have a suitable form in my
> junk box,
> so I hooked the ladder line to a BNC to dual banana binding post
> adapter.
> The KX3 ATU did fine in matching from 80 to 10m, except on 40m. On
> the
> other bands, the match was 1:1 or close, but on 40m, the tuner
> struggled to
> get down to 3:1 or so. I added a 33' "radial" wire to the ground
> side of
> the banana adapter and ran it under the antenna, keeping it 2 to 3'
> above
> the ground. With this addition, the ATU could usually get close to
> 1:1 on
> 40m. The antenna seemed to play well, so the efficiency must not
> have been
> too bad. I was impressed with the KX3 for many reasons, including
> its ATU.
>
> 73,
> Phil, NS7P
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 9:09 PM
> To: Jeff Herr
> Cc: 'Elecraft Reflector'
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] "random wire" and the KX3 ATU
>
>
> Jeff,
>
> The KXAT3 has a very wide tuning range and is specifically designed
> for use with random-length antennas. Typically any wire longer than
> 20' or so can be tuned up on 40-6 meters. A 74-foot antenna will
> probably be tunable to reasonable SWR on 160-6.
>
> A random wire antenna can work very well -- comparable to a vertical
> or dipole depending on the band, radiation angle, and your ground
> system (if the random wire is worked against radials).
>
> I use random wires almost exclusively. The KXAT3 does an excellent job
> with them. It will also do other magic tricks like make an 80-meter
> dipole work on all bands, or a 20-meter yagi work on 30-6 meters, etc.
> Efficiency will vary, but the transmitter will be happy.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> On Jun 26, 2012, at 7:55 PM, Jeff Herr wrote:
>
>> I know folks who have had bad experiences using a "random" wire with
>> an ATU.
>>
>> Although I ordered a buddipole with the kx3 I still am interested in
>> getting
>> A 74 foot length of wire up in the pine trees (I will have a
>> counterpoise)
>> while up in the
>> Lassen national forest.....we go there a lot.
>>
>> When I mention this I am met with much skepticism.
>>
>> Am I way off base? Is this beyond the capabilities of the tuner?
>> Is there a descriptive spec for the tuner that describes the range
>> of it
>> matching capability?
>>
>> WW6L
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

gm3sek

Re: K3/KX3 Operating Tip: APF (audio peaking filter) for weak-signal CW work

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Wayne Burdick wrote:
> on the K3, it's labeled "DUAL PB" (hold). The K3 actually provides two
>different special filter functions; use the DUAL PB menu entry to set
>up the switch for APF.

On the K3, it would be really helpful to have an option to reconfigure
that button on the K3 as "tap = APF" so that we don't have to lose "hold
= DUAL PB".

"Tap = APF" would also bring the K3 into line with the KX3.

Obviously APF and DUAL PB cannot both be selected at the same time, but
it would still be helpful to have either one available QUICKLY on the
same button.

No XFIL users would be inconvenienced by making this a configuration
option.

--

73 from Ian GM3SEK
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
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Pierfrancesco Caci

Re: K3/KX3 Operating Tip: APF (audio peaking filter) for weak-signal CW work

>>>>> "Ian" == Ian White GM3SEK <[hidden email]> writes:

Ian> Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> on the K3, it's labeled "DUAL PB" (hold). The K3 actually provides two
>> different special filter functions; use the DUAL PB menu entry to set
>> up the switch for APF.

Ian> On the K3, it would be really helpful to have an option to reconfigure
Ian> that button on the K3 as "tap = APF" so that we don't have to lose "hold
Ian> = DUAL PB".

Ian> "Tap = APF" would also bring the K3 into line with the KX3.

Ian> Obviously APF and DUAL PB cannot both be selected at the same time, but
Ian> it would still be helpful to have either one available QUICKLY on the
Ian> same button.

Ian> No XFIL users would be inconvenienced by making this a configuration
Ian> option.

I'd hate to lose the possiblity to quickly tighten the filters with one
tap (think digimodes, where you switch from looking at a 3 kHz waterfall
down to a single psk signal with just 3 presses of that button).
What about long hold (more than 3 seconds)? I think long hold is already
used somewhere else in the firmware, so the function to recognize it is
already there.

Pf

--
Pierfrancesco Caci, ik5pvx
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Jim Rogers, W4ATK

Re: "random wire" and the KX3 ATU

In reply to this post by Jeff Herr

I would be in real trouble if I could not use wire antennas. All of my antennas are in my attic. They consist of a full wave 40M loop fed thru the little Elecraft balun via a short run of 450 ohm ladder line, a 65' marconi (end fed "random" wire) in an "inverted U" configuration fed thru a Balun Designs UNUN , and a 5 band vertical dipole that is center loaded. The ATU in my K3 does an excellent job of matching this variety of antennas. I get great signal reports, particularly off of the "inverted U" on 40,75, and 80 meters and find myself busting DX pileups with a barefoot K3/100. It is quite interesting to switch between the antennas and note the performance under varying band conditions.

73s Jim, W4ATK

On Jun 26, 2012, at 9:55 PM, Jeff Herr wrote:

> I know folks who have had bad experiences using a "random" wire with an ATU.
>
> Although I ordered a buddipole with the kx3 I still am interested in getting
> A 74 foot length of wire up in the pine trees (I will have a counterpoise)
> while up in the
> Lassen national forest.....we go there a lot.
>
> When I mention this I am met with much skepticism.
>
> Am I way off base? Is this beyond the capabilities of the tuner?
> Is there a descriptive spec for the tuner that describes the range of it
> matching capability?
>
> WW6L
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

gm3sek

Re: K3/KX3 Operating Tip: APF (audio peaking filter) for weak-signal CW work

In reply to this post by Pierfrancesco Caci

Pierfrancesco Caci wrote:
>
>I'd hate to lose the possiblity to quickly tighten the filters with one
>tap (think digimodes, where you switch from looking at a 3 kHz
>waterfall down to a single psk signal with just 3 presses of that
>button). What about long hold (more than 3 seconds)? I think long hold
>is already used somewhere else in the firmware, so the function to
>recognize it is already there.
>

A three-level button function including 'Long hold' is not
user-friendly. 'Long hold' is sloooow (by definition!) which means that
one group of users is sure to get a raw deal. Also, inexperienced users
can easily get lost in the deeper levels.

'Choose two out of three for Tap and Hold' is far more user-friendly.

As I already said, anyone who regularly uses XFIL could simply stay with
the default.

G3XDY has also identified a serious problem about the XFIL button when
attempting to turn the APF off. With the bandwidth already cranked down
to your narrowest CW filter, hear what happens if you don't hold the
XFIL/APF button for long enough. A fraction of a second's error blows
the bandwidth wide open! When you're wearing headphones and listening
really hard for a weak signal, that blast of noise is extremely
unpleasant.

And the point is: it's fixable.

--

73 from Ian GM3SEK
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3/KX3 Operating Tip: APF (audio peaking filter) for weak-signal CW work

> And the point is: it's fixable.

It is not fixable to your definition without changing both the front
panel (engraving) and keytops (legend). Moving XFIL to HOLD would
be extremely inconvenient for users of that function (it is very
difficult to do multiple HOLD gestures) and the current assignments
are not cumbersome.

One can also assign a PF Key (I use PF 2) to toggle the function of
DUAL PB=HOLD between Dual PB and APF as needed.

The current implementation is quite usable given the limited number
of individual controls (number of buttons) available on the front
panel.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 6/27/2012 8:52 AM, Ian White GM3SEK wrote:

> Pierfrancesco Caci wrote:
>>
>> I'd hate to lose the possiblity to quickly tighten the filters with one
>> tap (think digimodes, where you switch from looking at a 3 kHz
>> waterfall down to a single psk signal with just 3 presses of that
>> button). What about long hold (more than 3 seconds)? I think long hold
>> is already used somewhere else in the firmware, so the function to
>> recognize it is already there.
>>
>
> A three-level button function including 'Long hold' is not
> user-friendly. 'Long hold' is sloooow (by definition!) which means that
> one group of users is sure to get a raw deal. Also, inexperienced users
> can easily get lost in the deeper levels.
>
> 'Choose two out of three for Tap and Hold' is far more user-friendly.
>
> As I already said, anyone who regularly uses XFIL could simply stay with
> the default.
>
> G3XDY has also identified a serious problem about the XFIL button when
> attempting to turn the APF off. With the bandwidth already cranked down
> to your narrowest CW filter, hear what happens if you don't hold the
> XFIL/APF button for long enough. A fraction of a second's error blows
> the bandwidth wide open! When you're wearing headphones and listening
> really hard for a weak signal, that blast of noise is extremely
> unpleasant.
>
> And the point is: it's fixable.
>
>

gm3sek

Re: K3/KX3 Operating Tip: APF (audio peaking filter) for weak-signal CW work

Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> > And the point is: it's fixable.
>
>It is not fixable to your definition without changing both the front
>panel (engraving) and keytops (legend). Moving XFIL to HOLD would be
>extremely inconvenient for users of that function (it is very difficult
>to do multiple HOLD gestures) and the current assignments are not
>cumbersome.
>
Who said any of that that? Not I.

I was only suggesting ONE new option.

The existing options are:

1. Tap = XFIL, Hold = DUAL PB (the current default, and no reason to
change that status)

2. Tap = XFIL, Hold = APF (the only current alternative)

My simple suggestion, for those who use APF a lot but don't use XFIL,
was:

3. Tap = APF, Hold = DUAL PB

--

73 from Ian GM3SEK
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
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G3TCT

Re: K3/KX3 Operating Tip: APF (audio peaking filter) for weak-signal CW work

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

I find APF very useful for VHF/UHF work too, and the need to hold the
button a problem. How about making it possible to switch the APF on and
off through a programmable function button - is that an option?

Graham

On 19:59, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
> > And the point is: it's fixable.
>
> It is not fixable to your definition without changing both the front
> panel (engraving) and keytops (legend). Moving XFIL to HOLD would
> be extremely inconvenient for users of that function (it is very
> difficult to do multiple HOLD gestures) and the current assignments
> are not cumbersome.
>
> One can also assign a PF Key (I use PF 2) to toggle the function of
> DUAL PB=HOLD between Dual PB and APF as needed.
>
> The current implementation is quite usable given the limited number
> of individual controls (number of buttons) available on the front
> panel.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>

Dick Dievendorff

Re: K3/KX3 Operating Tip: APF (audio peaking filter) for weak-signal CW work

It should be possible using a command macro.

AP0; turns CW APF off,
AP1; turns CW APF off,

SWH29; toggles DualPB which is APF if you have the K3 menu parameter
CONFIG:DUAL PB set to APF.

73 de Dick, K6KR

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Graham Kimbell G3TCT
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 9:52 AM
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3/KX3 Operating Tip: APF (audio peaking filter) for
weak-signal CW work

I find APF very useful for VHF/UHF work too, and the need to hold the button
a problem. How about making it possible to switch the APF on and off
through a programmable function button - is that an option?

Graham

On 19:59, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
> > And the point is: it's fixable.
>
> It is not fixable to your definition without changing both the front
> panel (engraving) and keytops (legend). Moving XFIL to HOLD would be
> extremely inconvenient for users of that function (it is very
> difficult to do multiple HOLD gestures) and the current assignments
> are not cumbersome.
>
> One can also assign a PF Key (I use PF 2) to toggle the function of
> DUAL PB=HOLD between Dual PB and APF as needed.
>
> The current implementation is quite usable given the limited number of
> individual controls (number of buttons) available on the front panel.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>

Dick Dievendorff

Re: K3/KX3 Operating Tip: APF (audio peaking filter) for weak-signal CW work

AP1 turns CW APF on.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dick Dievendorff
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 10:45 AM
To: 'Graham Kimbell G3TCT'
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3/KX3 Operating Tip: APF (audio peaking filter) for
weak-signal CW work

It should be possible using a command macro.

AP0; turns CW APF off,
AP1; turns CW APF off,

SWH29; toggles DualPB which is APF if you have the K3 menu parameter
CONFIG:DUAL PB set to APF.

73 de Dick, K6KR

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Graham Kimbell G3TCT
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 9:52 AM
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3/KX3 Operating Tip: APF (audio peaking filter) for
weak-signal CW work

I find APF very useful for VHF/UHF work too, and the need to hold the button
a problem. How about making it possible to switch the APF on and off
through a programmable function button - is that an option?

Graham

On 19:59, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

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G3TCT

Re: K3/KX3 Operating Tip: APF (audio peaking filter) for weak-signal CW work

In reply to this post by gm3sek

I support Ian's suggested option. My previous question about using a
programmable function is (I now realise) useless (as is using a macro)
because they all need a "hold" on a button, and we've already got that!

On 19:59, Ian White GM3SEK wrote:

> [snip]
>
> I was only suggesting ONE new option.
>
> The existing options are:
>
> 1. Tap = XFIL, Hold = DUAL PB (the current default, and no reason to
> change that status)
>
> 2. Tap = XFIL, Hold = APF (the only current alternative)
>
> My simple suggestion, for those who use APF a lot but don't use XFIL,
> was:
>
> 3. Tap = APF, Hold = DUAL PB
>