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K3 Locks up in Transmit in data mode.

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Stewart Bryant

K3 Locks up in Transmit in data mode.

Hi

This is probably finger trouble, but I cannot see
what the problem is, so I wonder if anyone
knows what is going on.

I have a K3, Sigalink and HRD/DM780.

For voice and CW including using the winkeyer all
works fine including CAT.

However I get a transmit lockup in data mode.

I am using vox from the Sigalink to control the K3 PTT.

I have K3 power turned to zero.

I set the K3 in data mode and send some data and all is well
relays go over tries to send some data goes back to receive.

If I plug in the RS232 cable and send some data all works
well, the Sigalink drops PTT, buy the K3 locks in
transmit and will not come out of transmit until I power
cycle the K3. Removing the RS232 cable has no effect unless
I power cycle the K3.

Removing the RS232 cable and all works exactly as expected.

I have configured ptt to off-off.

Does anyone have any idea what I am doing wrong here?

Many thanks

Stewart/G3YSX

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 Locks up in Transmit in data mode.

Stewart,

By saying you are "using VOX in Signalink to control PTT" are you saying
that you are using the PTT output of Signalink to control transmission?
With a cable to the PTT jack?

You mentioned the "RS-232 cable" which makes me wonder which of the
Signalink "Radio Cables" you are using. I am going to assume you are
using the SLUSBK3 cable which connects to the K3 reap panel audio jacks
and the PTT jack.

If so, do you also have VOX set on in the K3.

This is a common problem if both Signalink PTT and the K3 VOX are
active. Unplug the PTT cable from the Signalink and just use the VOX in
the K3, or turn off VOX in the K3 and use the PTT from Signalink - your
choice, but do not use both.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/25/2015 4:35 PM, Stewart Bryant wrote:

> Hi
>
> This is probably finger trouble, but I cannot see
> what the problem is, so I wonder if anyone
> knows what is going on.
>
> I have a K3, Sigalink and HRD/DM780.
>
> For voice and CW including using the winkeyer all
> works fine including CAT.
>
> However I get a transmit lockup in data mode.
>
> I am using vox from the Sigalink to control the K3 PTT.
>
> I have K3 power turned to zero.
>
> I set the K3 in data mode and send some data and all is well
> relays go over tries to send some data goes back to receive.
>
> If I plug in the RS232 cable and send some data all works
> well, the Sigalink drops PTT, buy the K3 locks in
> transmit and will not come out of transmit until I power
> cycle the K3. Removing the RS232 cable has no effect unless
> I power cycle the K3.
>
> Removing the RS232 cable and all works exactly as expected.
>
> I have configured ptt to off-off.
>
> Does anyone have any idea what I am doing wrong here?
>
> Many thanks
>
> Stewart/G3YSX
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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Stewart Bryant

Re: K3 Locks up in Transmit in data mode.

Hi Don

Thanks for the reply.

On 25/02/2015 22:23, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> Stewart,
>
> By saying you are "using VOX in Signalink to control PTT" are you
> saying that you are using the PTT output of Signalink to control
> transmission? With a cable to the PTT jack?
Yes, that is how it is configured.
>
> You mentioned the "RS-232 cable" which makes me wonder which of the
> Signalink "Radio Cables" you are using. I am going to assume you are
> using the SLUSBK3 cable which connects to the K3 reap panel audio
> jacks and the PTT jack.
Correct.
>
> If so, do you also have VOX set on in the K3.
No, I turned this off.
>
> This is a common problem if both Signalink PTT and the K3 VOX are
> active. Unplug the PTT cable from the Signalink and just use the VOX
> in the K3, or turn off VOX in the K3 and use the PTT from Signalink -
> your choice, but do not use both.
The key factor in avoiding the hang (which happens in both DN780 and
FLdigi seems to be not sending audio with the CAT cable connected, but
the off-off setting should surely cause the CAT control lines to be
ignored, shouldn't it?

73

Stewart/G3YSX

>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 2/25/2015 4:35 PM, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> This is probably finger trouble, but I cannot see
>> what the problem is, so I wonder if anyone
>> knows what is going on.
>>
>> I have a K3, Sigalink and HRD/DM780.
>>
>> For voice and CW including using the winkeyer all
>> works fine including CAT.
>>
>> However I get a transmit lockup in data mode.
>>
>> I am using vox from the Sigalink to control the K3 PTT.
>>
>> I have K3 power turned to zero.
>>
>> I set the K3 in data mode and send some data and all is well
>> relays go over tries to send some data goes back to receive.
>>
>> If I plug in the RS232 cable and send some data all works
>> well, the Sigalink drops PTT, buy the K3 locks in
>> transmit and will not come out of transmit until I power
>> cycle the K3. Removing the RS232 cable has no effect unless
>> I power cycle the K3.
>>
>> Removing the RS232 cable and all works exactly as expected.
>>
>> I have configured ptt to off-off.
>>
>> Does anyone have any idea what I am doing wrong here?
>>
>> Many thanks
>>
>> Stewart/G3YSX
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3 Locks up in Transmit in data mode.

> The key factor in avoiding the hang (which happens in both DN780 and
> FLdigi seems to be not sending audio with the CAT cable connected,
> but the off-off setting should surely cause the CAT control lines to
> be ignored, shouldn't it?

It's not the CAT control (RTS-DTR) lines you need to worry about.
It is sending TX ON and OX OFF commands via CAT that causes the
problem. *Either* use PTT via CAT COMMANDS *or* use the VOX in
Signalink/K3 but don't use both. It is when you mix CAT commands
and external PTT or VOX that you get the "hang" problem.

In DM780 you can use PTT on the DTR line *don't* use CAT commands.
In Fldigi *do not* use "CAT command for PTT" - instead use "Toggle
DTR for PTT".

*Many* rigs appear to have a race condition in processing CAT based
PTT commands and hardware (DTR) PTT. I do not know the internals
but it appears they ignore the hardware PTT while processing the CAT
command and if the hardware PTT disappears at the wrong time the CAT
TX OFF is ignored and then there is no hardware PTT off. In almost
every case simply "bumping" the PTT button on the mic will release
the stuck PTT.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2015-02-25 5:30 PM, Stewart Bryant wrote:

> Hi Don
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> On 25/02/2015 22:23, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Stewart,
>>
>> By saying you are "using VOX in Signalink to control PTT" are you
>> saying that you are using the PTT output of Signalink to control
>> transmission? With a cable to the PTT jack?
> Yes, that is how it is configured.
>>
>> You mentioned the "RS-232 cable" which makes me wonder which of the
>> Signalink "Radio Cables" you are using. I am going to assume you are
>> using the SLUSBK3 cable which connects to the K3 reap panel audio
>> jacks and the PTT jack.
> Correct.
>>
>> If so, do you also have VOX set on in the K3.
> No, I turned this off.
>>
>> This is a common problem if both Signalink PTT and the K3 VOX are
>> active. Unplug the PTT cable from the Signalink and just use the VOX
>> in the K3, or turn off VOX in the K3 and use the PTT from Signalink -
>> your choice, but do not use both.
> The key factor in avoiding the hang (which happens in both DN780 and
> FLdigi seems to be not sending audio with the CAT cable connected, but
> the off-off setting should surely cause the CAT control lines to be
> ignored, shouldn't it?
>
> 73
>
> Stewart/G3YSX
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 2/25/2015 4:35 PM, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> This is probably finger trouble, but I cannot see
>>> what the problem is, so I wonder if anyone
>>> knows what is going on.
>>>
>>> I have a K3, Sigalink and HRD/DM780.
>>>
>>> For voice and CW including using the winkeyer all
>>> works fine including CAT.
>>>
>>> However I get a transmit lockup in data mode.
>>>
>>> I am using vox from the Sigalink to control the K3 PTT.
>>>
>>> I have K3 power turned to zero.
>>>
>>> I set the K3 in data mode and send some data and all is well
>>> relays go over tries to send some data goes back to receive.
>>>
>>> If I plug in the RS232 cable and send some data all works
>>> well, the Sigalink drops PTT, buy the K3 locks in
>>> transmit and will not come out of transmit until I power
>>> cycle the K3. Removing the RS232 cable has no effect unless
>>> I power cycle the K3.
>>>
>>> Removing the RS232 cable and all works exactly as expected.
>>>
>>> I have configured ptt to off-off.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any idea what I am doing wrong here?
>>>
>>> Many thanks
>>>
>>> Stewart/G3YSX
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Don Wilhelm-5

Re: K3 Locks up in Transmit in data mode.

In reply to this post by Stewart Bryant

Stewart,

There are many "sneak paths" for PTT between data mode software and the
Signalink.
The Signalink has its own virtual VOX circuit that produces a PTT line
closure.
Fldigi and whichever rig control you are using with it can produce PTT
via CAT command (through the RS-232 connection) without an actual PTT
connection.
DM780 can be set to do PTT through HRD, which is essentially the same as
above (PTT via RS-232 command).

I would suggest that you look for something that duplicates the PTT
operation in either the software or the Signalink. Once that is found,
I think that will be the answer to your problem.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/25/2015 5:30 PM, Stewart Bryant wrote:

Stewart Bryant

Re: K3 Locks up in Transmit in data mode.

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Joe

Spot on, many thanks for the advice.

73

Stewart

On 25/02/2015 23:11, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
>> The key factor in avoiding the hang (which happens in both DN780 and
>> FLdigi seems to be not sending audio with the CAT cable connected,
>> but the off-off setting should surely cause the CAT control lines to
>> be ignored, shouldn't it?
>
> It's not the CAT control (RTS-DTR) lines you need to worry about.
> It is sending TX ON and OX OFF commands via CAT that causes the
> problem. *Either* use PTT via CAT COMMANDS *or* use the VOX in
> Signalink/K3 but don't use both. It is when you mix CAT commands
> and external PTT or VOX that you get the "hang" problem.
>
> In DM780 you can use PTT on the DTR line *don't* use CAT commands.
> In Fldigi *do not* use "CAT command for PTT" - instead use "Toggle
> DTR for PTT".
>
> *Many* rigs appear to have a race condition in processing CAT based
> PTT commands and hardware (DTR) PTT. I do not know the internals
> but it appears they ignore the hardware PTT while processing the CAT
> command and if the hardware PTT disappears at the wrong time the CAT
> TX OFF is ignored and then there is no hardware PTT off. In almost
> every case simply "bumping" the PTT button on the mic will release
> the stuck PTT.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2015-02-25 5:30 PM, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>> Hi Don
>>
>> Thanks for the reply.
>>
>> On 25/02/2015 22:23, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>>> Stewart,
>>>
>>> By saying you are "using VOX in Signalink to control PTT" are you
>>> saying that you are using the PTT output of Signalink to control
>>> transmission? With a cable to the PTT jack?
>> Yes, that is how it is configured.
>>>
>>> You mentioned the "RS-232 cable" which makes me wonder which of the
>>> Signalink "Radio Cables" you are using. I am going to assume you are
>>> using the SLUSBK3 cable which connects to the K3 reap panel audio
>>> jacks and the PTT jack.
>> Correct.
>>>
>>> If so, do you also have VOX set on in the K3.
>> No, I turned this off.
>>>
>>> This is a common problem if both Signalink PTT and the K3 VOX are
>>> active. Unplug the PTT cable from the Signalink and just use the VOX
>>> in the K3, or turn off VOX in the K3 and use the PTT from Signalink -
>>> your choice, but do not use both.
>> The key factor in avoiding the hang (which happens in both DN780 and
>> FLdigi seems to be not sending audio with the CAT cable connected, but
>> the off-off setting should surely cause the CAT control lines to be
>> ignored, shouldn't it?
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Stewart/G3YSX
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Don W3FPR
>>>
>>> On 2/25/2015 4:35 PM, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> This is probably finger trouble, but I cannot see
>>>> what the problem is, so I wonder if anyone
>>>> knows what is going on.
>>>>
>>>> I have a K3, Sigalink and HRD/DM780.
>>>>
>>>> For voice and CW including using the winkeyer all
>>>> works fine including CAT.
>>>>
>>>> However I get a transmit lockup in data mode.
>>>>
>>>> I am using vox from the Sigalink to control the K3 PTT.
>>>>
>>>> I have K3 power turned to zero.
>>>>
>>>> I set the K3 in data mode and send some data and all is well
>>>> relays go over tries to send some data goes back to receive.
>>>>
>>>> If I plug in the RS232 cable and send some data all works
>>>> well, the Sigalink drops PTT, buy the K3 locks in
>>>> transmit and will not come out of transmit until I power
>>>> cycle the K3. Removing the RS232 cable has no effect unless
>>>> I power cycle the K3.
>>>>
>>>> Removing the RS232 cable and all works exactly as expected.
>>>>
>>>> I have configured ptt to off-off.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone have any idea what I am doing wrong here?
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks
>>>>
>>>> Stewart/G3YSX
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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