K3 MCU 4.17 (APF beta) kills SSB output?

[wayne burdick]

We're working on the SSB problem.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Nov 4, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Philippe Trottet wrote:

> Same thing to me, I was noticed it when put my Amp w/GU84B on, need  
> 20w+ to obtain 500w in ssb instead of my normal 16w...


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[Tim Tucker]

I have the same experience that Philippe has.  I thought I had one or both
3cx800A7 tubes  going flat in my amp when I had to increase the drive to a
level I never have been close to approaching to get 1KW out.

It's great to hear that you guys are on this new glitch so quickly.

Tim

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 9:54 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> We're working on the SSB problem.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> On Nov 4, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Philippe Trottet wrote:
>
> > Same thing to me, I was noticed it when put my Amp w/GU84B on, need
> > 20w+ to obtain 500w in ssb instead of my normal 16w...
>
>
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[Philippe Trottet]

After many tries, on Dummy load first then with distant Ham friends, conclusion was to re-installed MCU 4.14.
Instead of giving the same dynamic with the MH2 microphone, with my Amp on, using 12w drive, using Mic=2 COMP=20, pronouncing the number 6 slowly, I have seen immediately the difference.
For me, using a Amp w/GU84B tetrode, 12w drive on ssb give 500~600w on normal voice operation.
With MCU 4.17 it gave only 300~400w and the power increase with difficulty on a single whistle to 500w. and when I pushed to maxi drive 65~70w I was unable to achieve the normal 64dBm+ of the Amp with normal voice.
Normal cw tune procedure seems not affected and I can achieve the maxi as normal.
 
The most important:
It has been reported to me during the test on the air, some alteration of the modulation, like a RFI ground phenomena on the microphone or like a under voltage problem during transmitting.
I've checked all connections from A to Z and no problem founded. re-load 4.17, installed it 2 times, with no changes.
When re-installing the MCU 4.14 everything is back to normal with the very clear voice provided by the K3.
Sure Wayne will share with us what's happened, .APF is a so great add-up in weak signal environment !
Bst 73's
Philippe A65BI

>>> Tim Tucker <[hidden email]> 05-11-2010 20:02 >>>
I have the same experience that Philippe has.  I thought I had one or both
3cx800A7 tubes  going flat in my amp when I had to increase the drive to a
level I never have been close to approaching to get 1KW out.

It's great to hear that you guys are on this new glitch so quickly.

Tim

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 9:54 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> We're working on the SSB problem.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> On Nov 4, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Philippe Trottet wrote:
>
> > Same thing to me, I was noticed it when put my Amp w/GU84B on, need
> > 20w+ to obtain 500w in ssb instead of my normal 16w...
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft 
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
>

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[Olli Tuppurainen]

Same thing..with 4.17 beta my SSB output dropped to 50W...reverted back to
4.14 everything is ok.
APF was great though ;)

Olli
OH6CT

-----Alkuperäinen viesti-----
Lähettäjä: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] Puolesta Nate Bargmann
Lähetetty: 4. marraskuuta 2010 19:19
Vastaanottaja: Elecraft list
Aihe: [Elecraft] K3 MCU 4.17 (APF beta) kills SSB output?

I updated my K3 to MCU 4.17 beta last night along with DSP 2.65 and FPU
1.4(?) and now today I notice that my SSB output is down about 3 dB.  I
can only coax about 50 Watts peak out of it and I've made no changes to
microphone, TX EQ, Mic Gain, Compression, or output power (set to 100 W).  
CONFIG:TXG VCE is set to 1.0 dB as before.

On CW I get a full 100 Watts peak.

Anyone else seeing this?

73, de Nate >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html
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[wayne burdick]

We're working on the SSB issue.

Wayne

On Nov 5, 2010, at 10:51 AM, Olli Tuppurainen wrote:

> Same thing..with 4.17 beta my SSB output dropped to 50W...reverted  
> back to
> 4.14 everything is ok.
> APF was great though ;)
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[Don Wilhelm-4]

  Phillippe,

You state the mic gain setting and the compression, but for the K3, the
most important setting is to obtain 5 to 7 bars on the ALC meter with
the compression turned to zero.  If that is not done as the first step,
then the K3 cannot properly control its power output.

After setting the mic gain level for those 5 to 7 bars, then increase
the compression to whatever you want.  You may want to recheck to be
sure your mic gain is set correctly (even though an SSB bug apparently
came along with 4.17.  BTW, thank you for trying the beta firmware - it
is good to give Elecraft feedback on problems like this one.

While I am not saying this is your problem, we need frequent reminders
of this initial requirement because many instructions for amplifiers and
for digital interface boxes (use 4 to 5 bars for digital) will lead you
to believe that you should control power output with the mic gain
setting.  While that is true for many transceivers, it is not good
advice for the K3.

 From the many posts on the reflector, there was a problem for SSB power
output (bug) that happened in MCU 4.17, and Wayne has said he is working
on it.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/5/2010 1:45 PM, Philippe Trottet wrote:

> After many tries, on Dummy load first then with distant Ham friends, conclusion was to re-installed MCU 4.14.
> Instead of giving the same dynamic with the MH2 microphone, with my Amp on, using 12w drive, using Mic=2 COMP=20, pronouncing the number 6 slowly, I have seen immediately the difference.
> For me, using a Amp w/GU84B tetrode, 12w drive on ssb give 500~600w on normal voice operation.
> With MCU 4.17 it gave only 300~400w and the power increase with difficulty on a single whistle to 500w. and when I pushed to maxi drive 65~70w I was unable to achieve the normal 64dBm+ of the Amp with normal voice.
> Normal cw tune procedure seems not affected and I can achieve the maxi as normal.
>
> The most important:
> It has been reported to me during the test on the air, some alteration of the modulation, like a RFI ground phenomena on the microphone or like a under voltage problem during transmitting.
> I've checked all connections from A to Z and no problem founded. re-load 4.17, installed it 2 times, with no changes.
> When re-installing the MCU 4.14 everything is back to normal with the very clear voice provided by the K3.
> Sure Wayne will share with us what's happened, .APF is a so great add-up in weak signal environment !
> Bst 73's
> Philippe A65BI
>

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[K2QI]

Nate et all,

I stand corrected.  Looks like K3 #2730 also has this issue.  I didn't
notice at first, but then noticed it last night. Performing a TX calibration
didn't really fix it completely, although it did help.

Glad to know that the boys at Aptos are working on it.

73 de James K2QI

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 2:02 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Nate, have you tried reloading the firmware? I'd give that a shot first. If
> that doesn't help, revert to the previous version and test again.
>
> In my case, latest beta firmware installed with no issues to report.
>
> 73 de James K2QI
>
>
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[Edward R Cole]

Successfully downloaded MCU4.17 and began experimenting with APV.  It
took awhile to find a weak CW signal - 20m band must be in good shape.

I did find one that was pretty spotty reception in 2.8-KHz bw; a bit
better with 400-Hz.  Then is turned on the APV.  I could see a
definite improvement once I got familiar with how to use it;  signal
went S=0 to S=2.  That is a nice enhancement in the firmware.

I will be doing primarily weak-signal CW with my K3 on 144-MHz and
1296-MHz eme.  The 400-Hz filter takes some getting use to compared
with 400-Hz DSP bw on my FT-847 (i.e. there is NO comparison).  The
8-pole K3 xtal filter just "chops off" everything outside the narrow
band.  Background noise drops significantly, too.  I may want to do
my eme search in 2.8, then narrow bw once I find a signal to
copy.  Fortunately, Ihave sw can detect a carrier way below audio
threshold (down to SNR= - 28 dB in a 2.8-KHz band).

I tested my SSB Tx levels using TUNE and the mic (on 20m) and they
indicate normal RF output so not seeing any issue on my K3/10 (16w
max output) (#4030).

I did play with CONFIG: PB CTRL 0.05 or 0.01; the 0.01 seemed to work
with APV nicer.
-----------------------------------
Sidenote:  My new 1296/28 transverter was shipped on Wed.

Just confirmed that I will be receiving a prototype dual-RX
transverter for 144/28 MHz.  Steve at Downeast Microwwave is using me
as beta-tester for this new model.  I will run it with my
dual-polarity 2m antenna array to capture polarity-angle information
using Linrad sw.  This will utilize the dual-Rx in my K3.  I guess
you could say this will make my eme station a polarity diversity
receiver.  Early details:
http://www.kl7uw.com/eme144.htm


73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
EME: 144-800*w, 432-100w, 1296-QRT*, 3400-winter?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
======================================
*temp not in service
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[NZ0T]

I had the same problem with 1502 so I went back to 4.14 pending a fix.  The APF does work very well!

73 Bill NZ0T

[wayne burdick]

We've now fixed this and are re-testing the code. Should have a new  
beta release later this evening.

Wayne

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[Philippe Trottet]

Hi Wayne,
Just downloaded MCU 4.18. Great improvement and everything is ok now.
Once again many thanks for the tremendous support of the Elecraft team.
Bst 73's
Philippe A65BI
 
Elecraft, by Hams, for Hams....What else !


>>> Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> 05-11-2010 8:54 >>>
We're working on the SSB problem.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Nov 4, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Philippe Trottet wrote:

> Same thing to me, I was noticed it when put my Amp w/GU84B on, need  
> 20w+ to obtain 500w in ssb instead of my normal 16w...


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