Elecraft

K3/MMTTY/Signalink Problem

Classic

List

Threaded

10 messages Options

Elecraft mailing list

K3/MMTTY/Signalink Problem

Thanks for all the inputs on my question.I have made some progress. I changed the K3 mode from AFSK to Data A, and in MMTTY have"Rev" selected. I am now upon TX getting power out, movement on the ALC meter (4 bars with 5th flickering, mic line set at 31) and hearing Diddles. So MMTTY is working for TX and RX better than before, and I had a QSO a bit ago with W1AW/4.- However with K3 power set at 85w, I am only showing 30w power out on both K3 RF meter and on the KPA digital readout.- Also as I understand it Signalink does AFSK, so why does it appear to be working in DATA A. Does the Data A mode selection have something to do with the reduced power out?

73 Paulkc2nyu
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3/MMTTY/Signalink Problem

> Also as I understand it Signalink does AFSK, so why
> does it appear to be working in DATA A. Does the Data A mode
> selection have something to do with the reduced power out?

AFSK A has a very narrow *transmit* filter on the Mark/Space tones to
prevent distortion and hum. If the MARK in MMTTY is not the same as
the MARK in the K3 (Pitch), you will get no output.

As for DATA A, depending on the transmit filter, you can have as much
as 1 to 1.5 dB of passband ripple. -1 dB is roughly 80W output for a
nominal 100W.

I strongly suggest making sure the MMTTY Mark and K3 PTICH are set
to the same frequency, that you turn NET ON in MMTTY, turn AFC OFF,
*TUNE WITH THE K3 VFO* while using AFSK A and carefully read both
the K3 Owners Manual and MMTTY help files.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-10-14 4:56 PM, paul ecker via Elecraft wrote:

> Thanks for all the inputs on my question.I have made some progress. I
> changed the K3 mode from AFSK to Data A, and in MMTTY have"Rev"
> selected. I am now upon TX getting power out, movement on the ALC
> meter (4 bars with 5th flickering, mic line set at 31) and hearing
> Diddles. So MMTTY is working for TX and RX better than before, and I
> had a QSO a bit ago with W1AW/4.- However with K3 power set at 85w, I
> am only showing 30w power out on both K3 RF meter and on the KPA
> digital readout.- Also as I understand it Signalink does AFSK, so why
> does it appear to be working in DATA A. Does the Data A mode
> selection have something to do with the reduced power out?
>
> 73 Paulkc2nyu
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list Home:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:
> mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3/MMTTY/Signalink Problem

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Paul,

There are subtle differences between DATA A and AFSK A. You may want to
review the K3 manual section on data modes for additional information.

First, DATA A sets the K3 to USB mode by default where AFSK A uses LSB
by default.
DATA A can transmit and receive anywhere within the audio frequency
range (unless the filters are narrowed). AFSK A uses narrow filters by
default.
Secondly, in DATA A, the K3 frequency shown is the suppressed carrier
frequency.
In AFSK A the frequency displayed is the RTTY mark frequency. Convention
when referring to the frequency of an RTTY signal, the MARK frequency is
specified - that is helpful for scheduled contacts - no mental math from
a waterfall display, it is right there on the K3 display.

Because of the latter two conditions, you must have the 'PITCH' set in
AFSK A to the same as the mark frequency that you have set in MMTTY.
The K3 uses narrow filters for AFSK A in both transmit and receive, so
if you do not have both MMTTY and the K3 set to agree with those tones,
the signal may not get through the K3 filters. Once you have things set
properly, it should proceed smoothly.

When using AFSK A, you would tune in the signal using the K3 VFO rather
than clicking on a waterfall. That works great with MMTTY. If you
prefer working with a waterfall display and clicking on a signal, you
may find more comfort using FLDIGI or some data mode application other
than MMTTY.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/14/2014 4:56 PM, paul ecker wrote:

> Thanks for all the inputs on my question.
> I have made some progress. I changed the K3 mode from AFSK to Data A,
> and in MMTTY have"Rev" selected. I am now upon TX getting power out,
> movement on the ALC meter (4 bars with 5th flickering, mic line set at
> 31) and hearing Diddles. So MMTTY is working for TX and RX better than
> before, and I had a QSO a bit ago with W1AW/4.
> - However with K3 power set at 85w, I am only showing 30w power out
> on both K3 RF meter and on the KPA digital readout.
> - Also as I understand it Signalink does AFSK, so why does it appear
> to be working in DATA A. Does the Data A mode selection have something
> to do with the reduced power out?
>

Elecraft mailing list

Re: K3/MMTTY/Signalink Problem

I have the Pitch in AFSK set the same as the mark in MMTTY. I am using Signalink USB external sound card and the K3 and MMTTY.

But the question remains, if I set K3 mode to AFSK I get no power out or no Diddles. With Data A I do get power out and Diddles. Why is that ?? Even though using Data A I get some power out , why the lower power then what I have the K3 set out ??
73 Paulkc2nyu
From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
To: paul ecker <[hidden email]>; "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2014 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3/MMTTY/Signalink Problem

Paul,

There are subtle differences between DATA A and AFSK A. You may want to review the K3 manual section on data modes for additional information.

First, DATA A sets the K3 to USB mode by default where AFSK A uses LSB by default.
DATA A can transmit and receive anywhere within the audio frequency range (unless the filters are narrowed). AFSK A uses narrow filters by default.
Secondly, in DATA A, the K3 frequency shown is the suppressed carrier frequency.
In AFSK A the frequency displayed is the RTTY mark frequency. Convention when referring to the frequency of an RTTY signal, the MARK frequency is specified - that is helpful for scheduled contacts - no mental math from a waterfall display, it is right there on the K3 display.

Because of the latter two conditions, you must have the 'PITCH' set in AFSK A to the same as the mark frequency that you have set in MMTTY. The K3 uses narrow filters for AFSK A in both transmit and receive, so if you do not have both MMTTY and the K3 set to agree with those tones, the signal may not get through the K3 filters. Once you have things set properly, it should proceed smoothly.

When using AFSK A, you would tune in the signal using the K3 VFO rather than clicking on a waterfall. That works great with MMTTY. If you prefer working with a waterfall display and clicking on a signal, you may find more comfort using FLDIGI or some data mode application other than MMTTY.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/14/2014 4:56 PM, paul ecker wrote:

Thanks for all the inputs on my question. I have made some progress. I changed the K3 mode from AFSK to Data A, and in MMTTY have"Rev" selected. I am now upon TX getting power out, movement on the ALC meter (4 bars with 5th flickering, mic line set at 31) and hearing Diddles. So MMTTY is working for TX and RX better than before, and I had a QSO a bit ago with W1AW/4. - However with K3 power set at 85w, I am only showing 30w power out on both K3 RF meter and on the KPA digital readout. - Also as I understand it Signalink does AFSK, so why does it appear to be working in DATA A. Does the Data A mode selection have something to do with the reduced power out?

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Don Wilhelm-5

Re: K3/MMTTY/Signalink Problem

Paul,

I fear there is something in your setup between the K3 and MMTTY that is
causing your problems.
In addition to the K3 manual, review the MMTTY help file to see if you
can discover what that may be.
We can only guess about what your problem may be - what I can say is
that if the tones are correct, the K3 will transmit in AFSK A.
Once you figure out what is wrong with the setup, you will likely do a
good 'forehead slap'.
You had once mentioned "backwards" RTTY - you should not have ALT set on
the K3 nor reverse set in MMTTY when using AFSK A because AFSK is LSB
which is normal for RTTY.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/14/2014 5:56 PM, paul ecker wrote:
> I have the Pitch in AFSK set the same as the mark in MMTTY. I am using
> Signalink USB external sound card and the K3 and MMTTY.
>
> But the question remains, if I set K3 mode to AFSK I get no power out
> or no Diddles. With Data A I do get power out and Diddles. Why is that
> ?? Even though using Data A I get some power out , why the lower
> power then what I have the K3 set out ??
>
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Brown-10

Re: K3/MMTTY/Signalink Problem

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

On Tue,10/14/2014 2:56 PM, paul ecker via Elecraft wrote:
> But the question remains, if I set K3 mode to AFSK I get no power out or no Diddles. With Data A I do get power out and Diddles. Why is that ??

One possibility is that MMTTY and the radio are set to different tones.
Another is that the radio may not be getting keyed. I use VOX, which is
turned on and off by mode. So if you're using it, check to see that the
rig is set for VOX in AFSK-A mode. Also check VOX levels.

Another possibility is that your computer sound card has been set to the
wrong L/R channel. Check the playback mixer for the SignalLink. Also
check that the RTTY program is using the SignalLink.

The fundamental differences between AFSK-A and DATA-A are that AFSK-A
uses MMTTY as a single frequency decoder, works LSB, and the dial
frequency is the Mark frequency. DATA-A uses USB, and uses software with
multiple decode capability, and the digital modulation can be moved
anywhere in the passband to the frequency of the signal you've chosen to
work. AFSK-A is RTTY ONLY, DATA-A can be used with ANY digital modes.

73, Jim K9YC
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Greg - AB7R

Re: K3/MMTTY/Signalink Problem

> Another thing to check:
>
> In your sound devices find the signalink USB codecs and open the playback
> mixer. The slider needs to be at 100....all the way to the top.
>
> Also, there are jumpers in the SL. One is for low output or high output.
> Make sure the jumpers are set to the high positions.
>
> 73
> Greg
> AB7R
>

>
>
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3/MMTTY/Signalink Problem

Be very careful ... Signalink USB lacks sufficient bypassing on
the internal 5V distribution, lacks regulation on the CODEC and
op-amp V/2 reference, and lacks sufficient filtering on the USB
power line.

Most sound card show increased distortion with Playback gain above
80%. Cranking the audio gain to 100% in the playback mixer can
cause it to become *VERY DIRTY* if power supply and regulation is
not properly addressed.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-10-15 10:03 AM, Greg wrote:

>> Another thing to check:
>>
>> In your sound devices find the signalink USB codecs and open the playback
>> mixer. The slider needs to be at 100....all the way to the top.
>>
>> Also, there are jumpers in the SL. One is for low output or high output.
>> Make sure the jumpers are set to the high positions.
>>
>> 73
>> Greg
>> AB7R
>>
>
>
>
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Greg - AB7R

Re: K3/MMTTY/Signalink Problem

Understood...thanks.

I had a similar problem when I first got a SL USB. The manufacturer said
the slider must be at max and then use the front panel pot and radio line
in control to manage the desired audio level. When I did that I was able
to get the desired output. I did not mean to crank all the controls to
max....that indeed would be a mess.
On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 7:34 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Be very careful ... Signalink USB lacks sufficient bypassing on
> the internal 5V distribution, lacks regulation on the CODEC and
> op-amp V/2 reference, and lacks sufficient filtering on the USB
> power line.
>
> Most sound card show increased distortion with Playback gain above
> 80%. Cranking the audio gain to 100% in the playback mixer can
> cause it to become *VERY DIRTY* if power supply and regulation is
> not properly addressed.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>
> On 2014-10-15 10:03 AM, Greg wrote:
>
>> Another thing to check:
>>>
>>> In your sound devices find the signalink USB codecs and open the playback
>>> mixer. The slider needs to be at 100....all the way to the top.
>>>
>>> Also, there are jumpers in the SL. One is for low output or high output.
>>> Make sure the jumpers are set to the high positions.
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Greg
>>> AB7R
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3/MMTTY/Signalink Problem

> The manufacturer said the slider must be at max and then use the
> front panel pot and radio line in control to manage the desired audio
> level.

The problem is that when the Windows slider is at max the USB CODEC is
running rail to rail on its output. With the improper filtering and
lack of regulation for the V/2 reference the output tones *are clipped*
and that causes distortion no matter where one runs the front panel
controls on the device or the mic gain on the K3.

This is another design fault of the device, the gain of its internal
VOX/PTT should have been increased to operate at lower levels from
the CODEC. With the K3, one is better served to use a lower output
from the CODEC and higher mic gain/VOX gain in the K3 and not rely
on the internal VOX/PTT of the device - transmit audio quality will
be up to 3 dB better.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-10-15 10:46 AM, Greg wrote:

> Understood...thanks.
>
> I had a similar problem when I first got a SL USB. The manufacturer said
> the slider must be at max and then use the front panel pot and radio line
> in control to manage the desired audio level. When I did that I was able
> to get the desired output. I did not mean to crank all the controls to
> max....that indeed would be a mess.
> On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 7:34 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Be very careful ... Signalink USB lacks sufficient bypassing on
>> the internal 5V distribution, lacks regulation on the CODEC and
>> op-amp V/2 reference, and lacks sufficient filtering on the USB
>> power line.
>>
>> Most sound card show increased distortion with Playback gain above
>> 80%. Cranking the audio gain to 100% in the playback mixer can
>> cause it to become *VERY DIRTY* if power supply and regulation is
>> not properly addressed.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2014-10-15 10:03 AM, Greg wrote:
>>
>>> Another thing to check:
>>>>
>>>> In your sound devices find the signalink USB codecs and open the playback
>>>> mixer. The slider needs to be at 100....all the way to the top.
>>>>
>>>> Also, there are jumpers in the SL. One is for low output or high output.
>>>> Make sure the jumpers are set to the high positions.
>>>>
>>>> 73
>>>> Greg
>>>> AB7R
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>