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K3 - NOT K3S - issue: TX Calibration fails on 6m only

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Jim Spears

K3 - NOT K3S - issue: TX Calibration fails on 6m only

I am helping a friend upgrade an older K3/100 (s/n 798) after he recently
acquired it from estate of a SK. I have brought firmware forward one or two
versions and installed the KIO3B board set. The radio has main RX only and
the KSYN3A upgrade. It does have the KANT3 antenna tuner.

I ran the 5 watt TX Calibration and it failed due to high swr on 6m only. I
thought this curious so ran this test against one of my K3S with the same
high quality dummy load and cable. It passed. I also scanned the dummy
load with my RigExpert and it is flat to at least 2m.

We would appreciate any suggestions as to how to further troubleshoot this
issue. My friend says that 6m is not important to him - today - but
tomorrow might be a different story. It seems reasonable to us that so long
as we are working on it, we should leave it fully operational.

I have not looked to see if the front panel to main board pin upgrade or any
other hardware mod has been performed.

Jim

N1NK

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ke9uw

Re: K3 - NOT K3S - issue: TX Calibration fails on 6m only

I had the same issue with a brand new K3S. It failed a couple times and then it passed once...so I left it there. I have not been on 6M but I assume it will work fine. I do feel apprehensive though about running the cal again.

Chuck Hawley
[hidden email]

Amateur Radio, KE9UW
aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles

________________________________
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Jim Spears <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2020 8:12 AM
To: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 - NOT K3S - issue: TX Calibration fails on 6m only

I am helping a friend upgrade an older K3/100 (s/n 798) after he recently
acquired it from estate of a SK. I have brought firmware forward one or two
versions and installed the KIO3B board set. The radio has main RX only and
the KSYN3A upgrade. It does have the KANT3 antenna tuner.

I ran the 5 watt TX Calibration and it failed due to high swr on 6m only. I
thought this curious so ran this test against one of my K3S with the same
high quality dummy load and cable. It passed. I also scanned the dummy
load with my RigExpert and it is flat to at least 2m.

We would appreciate any suggestions as to how to further troubleshoot this
issue. My friend says that 6m is not important to him - today - but
tomorrow might be a different story. It seems reasonable to us that so long
as we are working on it, we should leave it fully operational.

I have not looked to see if the front panel to main board pin upgrade or any
other hardware mod has been performed.

Jim

N1NK

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Chuck, KE9UW

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: K3 - NOT K3S - issue: TX Calibration fails on 6m only

I perform "radio maintenance" about every 2nd month or so.

That includes check frequency {adjust REF CAL as necessary}, check power
output on all bands {run TX Gain Cal as necessary}, receiver sensitivity
{run RX Gain cal as necessary} and then perform a full back up of the
configuration data. At the same time, I'm amazed at how stable and
accurate the radio maintains in all regards.

I've not experienced any failures of the TX gain calibration except when
the KPA3A had issues. That was replaced with a Rev E unit and no
problems observed since then.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 4/2/2020 9:01 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:

> I had the same issue with a brand new K3S. It failed a couple times and then it passed once...so I left it there. I have not been on 6M but I assume it will work fine. I do feel apprehensive though about running the cal again.
>
> Chuck Hawley
> [hidden email]
>
> Amateur Radio, KE9UW
> aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles
>
> ________________________________
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Jim Spears <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2020 8:12 AM
> To: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 - NOT K3S - issue: TX Calibration fails on 6m only
>
> I am helping a friend upgrade an older K3/100 (s/n 798) after he recently
> acquired it from estate of a SK. I have brought firmware forward one or two
> versions and installed the KIO3B board set. The radio has main RX only and
> the KSYN3A upgrade. It does have the KANT3 antenna tuner.
>
>
>
> I ran the 5 watt TX Calibration and it failed due to high swr on 6m only. I
> thought this curious so ran this test against one of my K3S with the same
> high quality dummy load and cable. It passed. I also scanned the dummy
> load with my RigExpert and it is flat to at least 2m.
>
>
>
> We would appreciate any suggestions as to how to further troubleshoot this
> issue. My friend says that 6m is not important to him - today - but
> tomorrow might be a different story. It seems reasonable to us that so long
> as we are working on it, we should leave it fully operational.
>
>
>
> I have not looked to see if the front panel to main board pin upgrade or any
> other hardware mod has been performed.
>
>
>
> Jim
>
> N1NK
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Don Wilhelm

Re: K3 - NOT K3S - issue: TX Calibration fails on 6m only

In reply to this post by Jim Spears

Jim,

If I am not mistaken, if the K3 Utility TX Gain calibration fails on any
band, no calibration information is stored in the K3. If you do it
manually, it will save on a band by band basis.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/2/2020 9:12 AM, Jim Spears wrote:
> I am helping a friend upgrade an older K3/100 (s/n 798) after he recently
> acquired it from estate of a SK. I have brought firmware forward one or two
> versions and installed the KIO3B board set. The radio has main RX only and
> the KSYN3A upgrade. It does have the KANT3 antenna tuner.
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ke9uw

Re: K3 - NOT K3S - issue: TX Calibration fails on 6m only

Other than using a computer, is there a menu item where the tx calibration values can be seen?

Tha manuals are pretty much assuming that you have a computer and still have the one that you did the calibration on.

Chuck Jack Hawley
KE9UW

Sent from my iPhone, cjack

> On Apr 5, 2020, at 7:24 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> If I am not mistaken, if the K3 Utility TX Gain calibration fails on any band, no calibration information is stored in the K3. If you do it manually, it will save on a band by band basis.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>> On 4/2/2020 9:12 AM, Jim Spears wrote:
>> I am helping a friend upgrade an older K3/100 (s/n 798) after he recently
>> acquired it from estate of a SK. I have brought firmware forward one or two
>> versions and installed the KIO3B board set. The radio has main RX only and
>> the KSYN3A upgrade. It does have the KANT3 antenna tuner.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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Chuck, KE9UW

Howard Stephenson - K6IA

Re: K3 - NOT K3S - issue: TX Calibration fails on 6m only

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

Try CONFIG TXGN
It's listed in the manual under the CONFIG Menu

<Other than using a computer, is there a menu item where the tx calibration
values can be <seen?

If you are having issues with TX Gain on 6M only check the IF trap in the
ATU (L10 C10)
you can remove them and replace with a jumper.

73
Howard K6IA
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ke9uw

Re: K3 - NOT K3S - issue: TX Calibration fails on 6m only

Thankyou. I'll check those.

Chuck KE9UW
[hidden email]

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 6, 2020, at 2:43 PM, Howard Stephenson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Try CONFIG TXGN
> It's listed in the manual under the CONFIG Menu
>
> <Other than using a computer, is there a menu item where the tx calibration
> values can be <seen?
>
> If you are having issues with TX Gain on 6M only check the IF trap in the
> ATU (L10 C10)
> you can remove them and replace with a jumper.
>
> 73
> Howard K6IA
> ______________________________________________________________
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Chuck, KE9UW

KeithWE6R

Re: K3 - NOT K3S - issue: TX Calibration fails on 6m only

Administrator

In reply to this post by Jim Spears

Could be a burned trap on the KAT3 (most likely). Just jumper the coil,
L10 and it will bypass a burned capacitor. The trap was found to be
redundant.
Make sure 6m is on the correct antenna not 2.
In TUNE, does it really have High SWR?
Set ATU to BYP for any tests using dummy load.

Make sure TECH MD is on, then look at config menu TXGN HP (or LP below
12w [8w 6m]) for the gain number.
Try a manual TX gain cal on different parts of the band, every half a
meg or so and see if it will pass.
(set TUN PWR to nor, set power for 50w EXACTLY, then long press XMIT to
send a carrier at 50 w for several seconds)
Then check the TXGN number.
You can do it at 5.0 watts exactly for the LP gain cal.
Keith WE6R Elecraft K3 Tech

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ke9uw

Re: K3 - NOT K3S - issue: TX Calibration fails on 6m only

Thanks for the information. I did not have a tuner in this K3S when it failed the 6M cal so I figured it was just marginal for some reason since it DID pass on the third try. I have read the Config menu now and see how to check the gain and do a manual cal if necessary.

I was just afraid to do the Cal again with the utility since it did eventually pass. I thought...leave it alone. But I did want to investigate the 6M gain etc. and understand what it was all about. I see now that I can do a manual Cal on 6M only if it becomes necessary. I need to learn to read the pages on menus in the manual as well as the index. I checked as you suggested and my gains are LP 10 watts and HP 34 at 50.135 MHz. Also I did as you suggested and the dummy load tune SWR is 1/1.1
So all good I guess.

Thank you again,

Chuck Hawley
[hidden email]

Amateur Radio, KE9UW
aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles

________________________________
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Keith Trinity WE6R <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, April 6, 2020 4:32 PM
To: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - NOT K3S - issue: TX Calibration fails on 6m only

Could be a burned trap on the KAT3 (most likely). Just jumper the coil,
L10 and it will bypass a burned capacitor. The trap was found to be
redundant.
Make sure 6m is on the correct antenna not 2.
In TUNE, does it really have High SWR?
Set ATU to BYP for any tests using dummy load.

Make sure TECH MD is on, then look at config menu TXGN HP (or LP below
12w [8w 6m]) for the gain number.
Try a manual TX gain cal on different parts of the band, every half a
meg or so and see if it will pass.
(set TUN PWR to nor, set power for 50w EXACTLY, then long press XMIT to
send a carrier at 50 w for several seconds)
Then check the TXGN number.
You can do it at 5.0 watts exactly for the LP gain cal.
Keith WE6R Elecraft K3 Tech

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Chuck, KE9UW

Bill Steffey NY9H

TX Calibration fails on 30m only

thought it good day to do a tx calibration.

I don't very often use 30 meters.. and today the calib quits at 30
meters saying too high for calibration 4.1 swr...

All other bands indicate swr of 1.1 // except 10mHz...

I looked and the 10mHz low pass filter is shared with 14mHZ... and 20
looks ok. Don't know if the problem is in the tuner while in "BYPASS "
for the test, or elsewhere. Any help ??? searching found nothing for me.

bill

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: TX Calibration fails on 30m only

I’ve found that one should use a 12” to 18” jumper of known good condition and quality. Use this jumper to connect the dummy load direct to the radio. No switches, and no tuners in bypass mode.

The dummy load should be 50 ohms +/- 5 (thats 10%) ohms and be resistive. Light bulbs and soldered up resistors and the like, aren’t resistive, meaning no reactance. Don’t take what’s written on the label as fact! They change! Measure them with an ohm meter and antenna bridge at several points from 1.8 MHz to 54 MHz. Anything greater than 1.1 to 1 is out of tolerance.

Run TX Gain cal on all bands. Your results are only as accurate as your procedure and test equipment.

Bob, K4TAX

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 7, 2020, at 10:59 AM, Bill Steffey NY9H <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> thought it good day to do a tx calibration.
>
> I don't very often use 30 meters.. and today the calib quits at 30 meters saying too high for calibration 4.1 swr...
>
> All other bands indicate swr of 1.1 // except 10mHz...
>
>
> I looked and the 10mHz low pass filter is shared with 14mHZ... and 20 looks ok. Don't know if the problem is in the tuner while in "BYPASS " for the test, or elsewhere. Any help ??? searching found nothing for me.
>
>
> bill
>
>
>
> --
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Bill Steffey NY9H

Re: TX Calibration fails on 30m only THANKS TO TAX !!!

yepper the radio is fine... something between the k3 and the waters
dummyload/wattmeter did NOT like 10 mHz.

Bob prompted what was my next step ..one short jumper to the load...BINGO

Now I need to find just where that lump of something is hiding . I was
fooled in that it calibrated up to 10mHz and manually looked good on all
the other bands...!!!!

thanks Bob for precipitating me to do the right thing.

bill ny9h

On 4/7/2020 2:01 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> I’ve found that one should use a 12” to 18” jumper of known good condition and quality. Use this jumper to connect the dummy load direct to the radio. No switches, and no tuners in bypass mode.
>
> The dummy load should be 50 ohms +/- 5 (thats 10%) ohms and be resistive. Light bulbs and soldered up resistors and the like, aren’t resistive, meaning no reactance. Don’t take what’s written on the label as fact! They change! Measure them with an ohm meter and antenna bridge at several points from 1.8 MHz to 54 MHz. Anything greater than 1.1 to 1 is out of tolerance.
>
> Run TX Gain cal on all bands. Your results are only as accurate as your procedure and test equipment.
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 7, 2020, at 10:59 AM, Bill Steffey NY9H <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> thought it good day to do a tx calibration.
>>
>> I don't very often use 30 meters.. and today the calib quits at 30 meters saying too high for calibration 4.1 swr...
>>
>> All other bands indicate swr of 1.1 // except 10mHz...
>>
>>
>> I looked and the 10mHz low pass filter is shared with 14mHZ... and 20 looks ok. Don't know if the problem is in the tuner while in "BYPASS " for the test, or elsewhere. Any help ??? searching found nothing for me.
>>
>>
>> bill
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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>

Jim Brown-10

Re: TX Calibration fails on 30m only THANKS TO TAX !!!

On 4/7/2020 12:43 PM, Bill Steffey NY9H wrote:
> Bob prompted what was my next step ..one short jumper to the load..

Expeditioners that do lots of portable setups have repeatedly preached
that when anything goes wrong in a radio system to ALWAYS suspect a bad
piece of coax, and usually a bad or poorly installed connector.

Back in the days when I was doing lots of live recording and sound
reinforcement gigs, it was mic cables. A standard test was to plug a mic
into the mixer with the cable(s) to test, listen on headphones with the
gain up, and "rattle" both ends and the cable itself to expose any
faults. To test coax cables, I'd do something equivalent with low power
into a dummy load and watching SWR at the rig.

73, Jim K9YC
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Bill Steffey NY9H

Re: fails on 30m only THANKS TO TAX !!!

I wiggled all connections & conections, then I took a small 50ohm load
and inserted it at the few points from the radio thru my TopTen relay
setup 2 radios by two amps to 6 ants ( 5 ants & 1 dummy load). The
culprit was my big palstar auto tuner while off , was NOT in bypass.
With that set properly all is good. Hopefully the only screwup made
while reconfiguring my station.... my stay at home project.

stay safe Jim....

bill/3

On 4/7/2020 7:59 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On 4/7/2020 12:43 PM, Bill Steffey NY9H wrote:
>> Bob prompted what was my next step ..one short jumper to the load..
>
> Expeditioners that do lots of portable setups have repeatedly preached
> that when anything goes wrong in a radio system to ALWAYS suspect a
> bad piece of coax, and usually a bad or poorly installed connector.
>
> Back in the days when I was doing lots of live recording and sound
> reinforcement gigs, it was mic cables. A standard test was to plug a
> mic into the mixer with the cable(s) to test, listen on headphones
> with the gain up, and "rattle" both ends and the cable itself to
> expose any faults. To test coax cables, I'd do something equivalent
> with low power into a dummy load and watching SWR at the rig.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: fails on 30m only THANKS TO TAX !!!

One basic rule from the TAX man.........more crap = more problems.
Always has been, always will be.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 4/7/2020 11:07 PM, Bill Steffey NY9H wrote:

> I wiggled all connections & conections, then I took a small 50ohm
> load and inserted it at the few points from the radio thru my TopTen
> relay setup 2 radios by two amps to 6 ants ( 5 ants & 1 dummy
> load). The culprit was my big palstar auto tuner while off , was NOT
> in bypass. With that set properly all is good. Hopefully the only
> screwup made while reconfiguring my station.... my stay at home project.
>
> stay safe Jim....
>
>
> bill/3
>
>
> On 4/7/2020 7:59 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>> On 4/7/2020 12:43 PM, Bill Steffey NY9H wrote:
>>> Bob prompted what was my next step ..one short jumper to the load..
>>
>> Expeditioners that do lots of portable setups have repeatedly
>> preached that when anything goes wrong in a radio system to ALWAYS
>> suspect a bad piece of coax, and usually a bad or poorly installed
>> connector.
>>
>> Back in the days when I was doing lots of live recording and sound
>> reinforcement gigs, it was mic cables. A standard test was to plug a
>> mic into the mixer with the cable(s) to test, listen on headphones
>> with the gain up, and "rattle" both ends and the cable itself to
>> expose any faults. To test coax cables, I'd do something equivalent
>> with low power into a dummy load and watching SWR at the rig.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>