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K3 NR needs improvement

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eric manning-2

K3 NR needs improvement

I'm a CW op, I'm baffled by the comments critical of the K3 NR, APF and
notch filter.

The NR generally removes ALL random noise, meaning that the rcvr is
silent in the absence of signals. Admittedly, It does get a little
upset in the presence of
many strong signals, so I usually turn it off in pileups.

The notch filter can be tuned manually to silence one interfering CW
signal.
The APF is a bit tricky, you need to use fine tuning [ 3 digits after
the VFO decimal point],
tune SLOWWLLY and listen for the weak signal to pop out of the noise.
But pop out it does.

Eric VA7DZ

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Gary Gregory-2

Re: K3 NR needs improvement

Eric

You are correct from my experience over years of owning my k3

These comments arise from time to time and cause me to scratch my head and
wonder why i am not hearing/seeing these issues too.

Gary
Vk1ZZ
K3, KX3, KPA500-FT, KAT500-FT,P3.
On 05/09/2013 2:34 PM, "eric manning" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm a CW op, I'm baffled by the comments critical of the K3 NR, APF and
> notch filter.
>
> The NR generally removes ALL random noise, meaning that the rcvr is
> silent in the absence of signals. Admittedly, It does get a little upset
> in the presence of
> many strong signals, so I usually turn it off in pileups.
>
> The notch filter can be tuned manually to silence one interfering CW
> signal.
> The APF is a bit tricky, you need to use fine tuning [ 3 digits after
> the VFO decimal point],
> tune SLOWWLLY and listen for the weak signal to pop out of the noise. But
> pop out it does.
>
> Eric VA7DZ
>
> --
> "BC is a prosperous, well-regulated place featuring Socialized Medicine,
> bilingual highway signs and Mounties."
>
> --Neal Stephenson, American novelist
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
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Johnny Siu

K3 NR needs improvement

In reply to this post by eric manning-2

Hello Eric,

As mentioned by other group members, this topic appears from time to time. I am the one in this forum who insist on the NR of K3 is not as good as my big ICOMs.

I eventually find the answers for myself. I am a 99% SSB operator and my ears can still hear above 12Khz. As a result, I am very sensitive to the artifact of the NR of K3. While elecraft confirm the NR in KX3 is the same as K3, I find the audio of my KX3 is better in SSB than K3.

The notch filter of K3 can notch the annoying carrier. Regrettably, it is outside the AGC loop and does not give any help if the offending carrier is desensing the AGC.

TNX & 73,

Johnny VR2XMC

________________________________
寄件人︰ eric manning <[hidden email]>
收件人︰ [hidden email]
傳送日期︰ 2013年09月5日 (週四) 12:33 PM
主題︰ [Elecraft] K3 NR needs improvement

I'm a CW op, I'm baffled by the comments critical of the K3 NR, APF and
notch filter.

The NR generally removes ALL random noise, meaning that the rcvr is
silent in the absence of signals. Admittedly, It does get a little
upset in the presence of
many strong signals, so I usually turn it off in pileups.

The notch filter can be tuned manually to silence one interfering CW
signal.
The APF is a bit tricky, you need to use fine tuning [ 3 digits after
the VFO decimal point],
tune SLOWWLLY and listen for the weak signal to pop out of the noise.
But pop out it does.

Eric VA7DZ
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N2TK

Re: K3 NR needs improvement

Johnny,
I agree with both you and Eric.

On CW I like the NR, APF and notch filter. Overall no complaints on CW.

Since I have had my K3's my complaint is with the NR on SSB. I agree with you about the NR on the Icoms. Wish the K3 operated similarly on SSB. I find the Icom NR less fatiguing with the low settings.

Other than that I am a happy camper with the K3's. You can hear them both in use at KP2M in October for the CQWW SSB Test. We will also have a KPA500 with us along with the stations other two amps.

73,
N2TK, Tony
K3 #311, #1435

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Johnny Siu
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 2:07 AM
To: Elecraft
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 NR needs improvement

Hello Eric,

As mentioned by other group members, this topic appears from time to time. I am the one in this forum who insist on the NR of K3 is not as good as my big ICOMs.

I eventually find the answers for myself. I am a 99% SSB operator and my ears can still hear above 12Khz. As a result, I am very sensitive to the artifact of the NR of K3. While elecraft confirm the NR in KX3 is the same as K3, I find the audio of my KX3 is better in SSB than K3.

The notch filter of K3 can notch the annoying carrier. Regrettably, it is outside the AGC loop and does not give any help if the offending carrier is desensing the AGC.

TNX & 73,

Johnny VR2XMC

________________________________
寄件人︰ eric manning <[hidden email]>
收件人︰ [hidden email]
傳送日期︰ 2013年09月5日 (週四) 12:33 PM
主題︰ [Elecraft] K3 NR needs improvement

I'm a CW op, I'm baffled by the comments critical of the K3 NR, APF and
notch filter.

The NR generally removes ALL random noise, meaning that the rcvr is
silent in the absence of signals. Admittedly, It does get a little
upset in the presence of
many strong signals, so I usually turn it off in pileups.

The notch filter can be tuned manually to silence one interfering CW
signal.
The APF is a bit tricky, you need to use fine tuning [ 3 digits after
the VFO decimal point],
tune SLOWWLLY and listen for the weak signal to pop out of the noise.
But pop out it does.

Eric VA7DZ
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John Huffman-3

Re: K3 NR needs improvement

In reply to this post by eric manning-2

Eric -

What NR settings are you using on CW? I can't get rid of the background
white noise with the K3 NR like I can with my Orion NR. I wish I could!

My K3 is never 'silent' with NR turned on.

73 de K1ESE
John

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drewko

Re: K3 NR needs improvement

John,

I have adjusted my Rx EQ to attenuate the higher freqs. Also, I
usually have the RF Gain and preamp set so that noise floor is just
audible. My Preamp is almost always off.

With AF Gain at 12 o'clock and RF Gain at 3 o'clock, engaging NR at
the 1-2 setting is VERY quiet. (This probably depends alot on your
ambient noise and speaker/headphone sensitivity.)

My only complaint about NR is the brief muting that occurs while the
filter rebuilds upon changing bandwidth settings. I would prefer to
hear a noisy signal during this period rather than complete muting. I
have no idea if that is something that could be done in the coding...

I frequently find myself adjusting the RF gain control to the noise
floor, whether i'm using NR or not. I wish there were a single button
push that could do this. Perhaps on some future rig...

73,
Drew
AF2Z

On Thu, 05 Sep 2013 12:38:46 -0400, you wrote:

>Eric -
>
>What NR settings are you using on CW? I can't get rid of the background
>white noise with the K3 NR like I can with my Orion NR. I wish I could!
>
>My K3 is never 'silent' with NR turned on.
>
>73 de K1ESE
>John
>
>

Roger de Valle

Re: K3 NR needs improvement

In reply to this post by John Huffman-3

I live in a high noise environment for 40 and 80m and find I can never get a
useful result with the noise reduction on the K3, subsequently I never use
it. I find that my other rigs finish up far more comfortable to listen to on
these frequencies where noise is prevalent. In an otherwise excellent radio
this is a major disappointment, I might be wrong but most of the software
effort seems devoted to the KX3 so I am not expecting any change soon.

73 Roger VK3ADE.

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 NR needs improvement

Eric -

What NR settings are you using on CW? I can't get rid of the background
white noise with the K3 NR like I can with my Orion NR. I wish I could!

My K3 is never 'silent' with NR turned on.

73 de K1ESE
John

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Cady, Fred

Re: K3 NR needs improvement

_I have a pretty high line noise problem here on six meters and the NR doesn't make much of a dent in it. However when I tried the noise blanker it worked great -- 10_12 DB of noise reduction as shown by wsjt. Try it. Start with the IF blanker first and then add in some dsp.

Also, make sure your agc isn't activating on the noise. If your audio noise level increases if you turn agc off, set the THR a bit higher.

73,
Fred ke7x

_______________________________________
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Roger de Valle [[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 4:03 PM
To: 'Elecraft List'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 NR needs improvement

I live in a high noise environment for 40 and 80m and find I can never get a
useful result with the noise reduction on the K3, subsequently I never use
it. I find that my other rigs finish up far more comfortable to listen to on
these frequencies where noise is prevalent. In an otherwise excellent radio
this is a major disappointment, I might be wrong but most of the software
effort seems devoted to the KX3 so I am not expecting any change soon.

73 Roger VK3ADE.

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 NR needs improvement

Eric -

What NR settings are you using on CW? I can't get rid of the background
white noise with the K3 NR like I can with my Orion NR. I wish I could!

My K3 is never 'silent' with NR turned on.

73 de K1ESE
John

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alsopb

Re: K3 NR needs improvement

Actually you ought to start with the DSP first. IF NB is a last resort
because it can generate trash when a strong signal shows up outside the
passband.

73 de Brian/K3KO

On 9/5/2013 23:39, Cady, Fred wrote:

> _I have a pretty high line noise problem here on six meters and the NR doesn't make much of a dent in it. However when I tried the noise blanker it worked great -- 10_12 DB of noise reduction as shown by wsjt. Try it. Start with the IF blanker first and then add in some dsp.
>
> Also, make sure your agc isn't activating on the noise. If your audio noise level increases if you turn agc off, set the THR a bit higher.
>
>
> 73,
> Fred ke7x
>
> _______________________________________
> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Roger de Valle [[hidden email]]
> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 4:03 PM
> To: 'Elecraft List'
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 NR needs improvement
>
> I live in a high noise environment for 40 and 80m and find I can never get a
> useful result with the noise reduction on the K3, subsequently I never use
> it. I find that my other rigs finish up far more comfortable to listen to on
> these frequencies where noise is prevalent. In an otherwise excellent radio
> this is a major disappointment, I might be wrong but most of the software
> effort seems devoted to the KX3 so I am not expecting any change soon.
>
> 73 Roger VK3ADE.
>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 NR needs improvement
>
> Eric -
>
> What NR settings are you using on CW? I can't get rid of the background
> white noise with the K3 NR like I can with my Orion NR. I wish I could!
>
> My K3 is never 'silent' with NR turned on.
>
> 73 de K1ESE
> John
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2

Re: K3 NR needs improvement

Yes, The NR needs improvement (at least on SSB) and the notch should be
inside the AGC loop. It has been said so many times before.
I know there are people who use the K3/IF - softrock/lp-pan -
comuterSDR-software combo in same cases instead of the K3 SDR. Hmmmm,

The NB's (DSP and hardware) both work as I would expect.

In de upcoming TN2MS DXpedition I will use the the K3-NR on 160/80 CW.
That is where it helps me against the fatigue of a whole night on those
bands.

73
Arie PA3A
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