K3 NR
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This is where I jump off the firmware updates train. I have version 3.10 doing everything the way I like it, and can rotate in 120 watts of power when I need to. I am smart enough not to overheat.
I always thought I would stay current with the FW, but too many things have gone sideways with respect to my tastes - it would take something truly major to have me upgrade FW in K3 again. Others may feel the progression is going in their direction - that's a problem with a product that comes so close to doing everything perfectly for everyone. [Elecraft] K3 NR rfenabled at gmail.com rfenabled at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 22:58:37 EDT 2009 Previous message: [Elecraft] FS: W5JH Black Widow Paddle Next message: [Elecraft] K3 NR Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Well the SSB folks lose out yet again on the latest FW revision. Just when the next to useless NR was made to work we have yet another version that favours one mode over others. Rather disappointing result but that appears to be the way of the k3 world at times. Great radio for some but so great for others perhaps..:-( Don't know could be a replacement but the search has started. Gary VK4WT Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Sorry guys but I have to disagree. Finally the noise reduction is
usable for SSB :) Absolutely brilliant! Thanks guys. I wonder if those who are having problems are running any RX EQ? I run none at all and find I don't need to. 73 Ian On 26 Aug 2009, at 26August04:54, Don Rasmussen wrote: > This is where I jump off the firmware updates train. I have version > 3.10 doing everything the way I like it, and can rotate in 120 watts > of power when I need to. I am smart enough not to overheat. > > I always thought I would stay current with the FW, but too many > things have gone sideways with respect to my tastes - it would take > something truly major to have me upgrade FW in K3 again. > > Others may feel the progression is going in their direction - that's > a problem with a product that comes so close to doing everything > perfectly for everyone. > > > [Elecraft] K3 NR > > rfenabled at gmail.com rfenabled at gmail.com > Tue Aug 25 22:58:37 EDT 2009 > Previous message: [Elecraft] FS: W5JH Black Widow Paddle > Next message: [Elecraft] K3 NR > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > Well the SSB folks lose out yet again on the latest FW revision. > Just when the next to useless NR was made to work we have yet > another version that favours one mode over others. > > Rather disappointing result but that appears to be the way of the k3 > world at times. > > Great radio for some but so great for others perhaps..:-( > > Don't know could be a replacement but the search has started. > > Gary > VK4WT > Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- Ian J Maude, G0VGS SysOp GB7MBC & HB9DRV-9 DX Clusters Member RSGB, GQRP 9838, FISTS 14077 | K3 #455 http://www.amateurradiotraining.org ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I have just uploaded the latest FW and agree that it is an improvement.
I have done some listening on 80 and 40m, both SSB and CW, and believe it is the best NR I have tried so far. Andy VK4KY *********************** Ian Maude wrote: > Sorry guys but I have to disagree. Finally the noise reduction is > usable for SSB :) Absolutely brilliant! Thanks guys. > I wonder if those who are having problems are running any RX EQ? I > run none at all and find I don't need to. > > 73 Ian > > On 26 Aug 2009, at 26August04:54, Don Rasmussen wrote: > > >> This is where I jump off the firmware updates train. I have version >> 3.10 doing everything the way I like it, and can rotate in 120 watts >> of power when I need to. I am smart enough not to overheat. >> >> I always thought I would stay current with the FW, but too many >> things have gone sideways with respect to my tastes - it would take >> something truly major to have me upgrade FW in K3 again. >> >> Others may feel the progression is going in their direction - that's >> a problem with a product that comes so close to doing everything >> perfectly for everyone. >> >> >> [Elecraft] K3 NR >> >> rfenabled at gmail.com rfenabled at gmail.com >> Tue Aug 25 22:58:37 EDT 2009 >> Previous message: [Elecraft] FS: W5JH Black Widow Paddle >> Next message: [Elecraft] K3 NR >> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] >> Well the SSB folks lose out yet again on the latest FW revision. >> Just when the next to useless NR was made to work we have yet >> another version that favours one mode over others. >> >> Rather disappointing result but that appears to be the way of the k3 >> world at times. >> >> Great radio for some but so great for others perhaps..:-( >> >> Don't know could be a replacement but the search has started. >> >> Gary >> VK4WT >> Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> > > -- > Ian J Maude, G0VGS > SysOp GB7MBC & HB9DRV-9 DX Clusters > Member RSGB, GQRP 9838, FISTS 14077 | K3 #455 > http://www.amateurradiotraining.org > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Ian Maude
Ian,I am with you,it works outstanding now,I don't even lose the audio as other said,it drops a liitle bid but still is confortable to my ears but the noise is totally GONE ! About the low end roll-off on version 3.25 was at 30 Hz,now with 3.27 is at 60Hz,who needs to hear that low? besides do your speaker respond to 30Hz,besides does anyone on ESSB respond that low? so 60 Hz is ok with me.73 to all
AD4C "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits".. -- Albert Einstein --- On Wed, 8/26/09, Ian Maude <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Ian Maude <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 NR To: [hidden email] Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 8:05 AM Sorry guys but I have to disagree. Finally the noise reduction is usable for SSB :) Absolutely brilliant! Thanks guys. I wonder if those who are having problems are running any RX EQ? I run none at all and find I don't need to. 73 Ian On 26 Aug 2009, at 26August04:54, Don Rasmussen wrote: > This is where I jump off the firmware updates train. I have version > 3.10 doing everything the way I like it, and can rotate in 120 watts > of power when I need to. I am smart enough not to overheat. > > I always thought I would stay current with the FW, but too many > things have gone sideways with respect to my tastes - it would take > something truly major to have me upgrade FW in K3 again. > > Others may feel the progression is going in their direction - that's > a problem with a product that comes so close to doing everything > perfectly for everyone. > > > [Elecraft] K3 NR > > rfenabled at gmail.com rfenabled at gmail.com > Tue Aug 25 22:58:37 EDT 2009 > Previous message: [Elecraft] FS: W5JH Black Widow Paddle > Next message: [Elecraft] K3 NR > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > Well the SSB folks lose out yet again on the latest FW revision. > Just when the next to useless NR was made to work we have yet > another version that favours one mode over others. > > Rather disappointing result but that appears to be the way of the k3 > world at times. > > Great radio for some but so great for others perhaps..:-( > > Don't know could be a replacement but the search has started. > > Gary > VK4WT > Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- Ian J Maude, G0VGS SysOp GB7MBC & HB9DRV-9 DX Clusters Member RSGB, GQRP 9838, FISTS 14077 | K3 #455 http://www.amateurradiotraining.org ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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> "About the low end roll-off on version 3.25 was at 30 Hz,now with 3.27 is
> at 60Hz,who needs to hear that low? besides do your speaker respond to > 30Hz,besides does anyone on ESSB respond that low? so 60 Hz is ok with > me.73 to all The low frequency issue reported here is primarily related to CW, not SSB. As an example of its importance, I worked a 4S7 station last night on 40m. As his gray-line was shifting away, his already weak signal was fading even further. Using F/W 3.25, I was able to copy him with an extremely low pitch of about 50 Hz. The use of extremely low pitch for marginal CW copy is pretty well known among top DXers. There's absolutely no way I would have worked he 4S7 using F/W 3.27. Paul, W9AC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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That's really interesting Paul. Were you also using very narrow passband and other rx eq filtering? Was he sending QRS?
David G3UNA > The low frequency issue reported here is primarily related to CW, not SSB. > As an example of its importance, I worked a 4S7 station last night on 40m. > As his gray-line was shifting away, his already weak signal was fading even > further. Using F/W 3.25, I was able to copy him with an extremely low pitch > of about 50 Hz. The use of extremely low pitch for marginal CW copy is > pretty well known among top DXers. There's absolutely no way I would have > worked he 4S7 using F/W 3.27. > > Paul, W9AC > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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> That's really interesting Paul. Were you also using very narrow passband
> and other rx eq filtering? Was he sending QRS? I started with a wide passband, then shifted to a narrow passband with Dual PB enabled. That has worked well for me in the past. I then went back to the 2.8K filter since the 4S7 was not working split and nearby interference was minimum, owing to long propagation. Most U.S. stations were quite weak at the time. With the 2.8K filter and using F/W 3.25, by far the best copy was obtained with a very low pitch setting. The ultra-low pitch is lost with the narrower roofing filters (as expected). If he was working split only 1-2 kHz up, then the story may have been different. Until 3.25, this was not possible in CW mode using any filter, although possible when transmitting CW in SSB mode -- but that presents other operating issues (e.g., frequency display error by the offset amount). No doubt the Elecraft guys will take care of it soon. Paul, W9AC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by AD4C2009
I like to have the lower response when doing cw. Yes my ears work that
low and yes the outboard amplifier and speakers I'm using can respond that low. ~Brett On 8/26/09, Hector Padron <[hidden email]> wrote: > Ian,I am with you,it works outstanding now,I don't even lose the audio as > other said,it drops a liitle bid but still is confortable to my ears but the > noise is totally GONE ! About the low end roll-off on version 3.25 was at 30 > Hz,now with 3.27 is at 60Hz,who needs to hear that low? besides do your > speaker respond to 30Hz,besides does anyone on ESSB respond that low? so 60 > Hz is ok with me.73 to all > > AD4C > > > > "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its > limits".. -- Albert Einstein > > --- On Wed, 8/26/09, Ian Maude <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > From: Ian Maude <[hidden email]> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 NR > To: [hidden email] > Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 8:05 AM > > > Sorry guys but I have to disagree. Finally the noise reduction is > usable for SSB :) Absolutely brilliant! Thanks guys. > I wonder if those who are having problems are running any RX EQ? I > run none at all and find I don't need to. > > 73 Ian > > On 26 Aug 2009, at 26August04:54, Don Rasmussen wrote: > >> This is where I jump off the firmware updates train. I have version >> 3.10 doing everything the way I like it, and can rotate in 120 watts >> of power when I need to. I am smart enough not to overheat. >> >> I always thought I would stay current with the FW, but too many >> things have gone sideways with respect to my tastes - it would take >> something truly major to have me upgrade FW in K3 again. >> >> Others may feel the progression is going in their direction - that's >> a problem with a product that comes so close to doing everything >> perfectly for everyone. >> >> >> [Elecraft] K3 NR >> >> rfenabled at gmail.com rfenabled at gmail.com >> Tue Aug 25 22:58:37 EDT 2009 >> Previous message: [Elecraft] FS: W5JH Black Widow Paddle >> Next message: [Elecraft] K3 NR >> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] >> Well the SSB folks lose out yet again on the latest FW revision. >> Just when the next to useless NR was made to work we have yet >> another version that favours one mode over others. >> >> Rather disappointing result but that appears to be the way of the k3 >> world at times. >> >> Great radio for some but so great for others perhaps..:-( >> >> Don't know could be a replacement but the search has started. >> >> Gary >> VK4WT >> Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > -- > Ian J Maude, G0VGS > SysOp GB7MBC & HB9DRV-9 DX Clusters > Member RSGB, GQRP 9838, FISTS 14077 | K3 #455 > http://www.amateurradiotraining.org > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by P.B. Christensen
Since 300 Hz is as low as the K3 PITCH goes, don't you also have a 250 Hz offset when listening at 50 Hz? Wow...I thought I liked a low PITCH but this is the first I've heard of anyone using 50 Hz! 240 Hz is as low as I ever used with my old TS-930S for weak signals...coincidentally when working 4S7 via long path on 160m from Colorado (truly a weak signal). I have a recording of that on cassette tape and later verified the PITCH setting was ~240 Hz: http://users.vnet.net/btippett/jj1vkl_4s7.htm More recently I used a 270 Hz PITCH to win N2XE's 80m beacon reception test at 27 uW output: http://www.n2xe.com/Beacon.html (270 Hz PITCH mentioned near bottom of page) 73, Bill |
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> Since 300 Hz is as low as the K3 PITCH goes, don't you also have a 250 Hz
> offset when listening at 50 Hz? No, and here's why: I leave the menu pitch setting at 600 Hz on all rigs here; it never changes. It's the RIT (non-split) or VFO A (split) that I adjust incoming CW to < 100 Hz while copying weak DX. I've been using this method on the Icom '7700 and '7800 since their purchase. Until I purchased the '7800 back in 2005, the only other radio I've owned that would produce ultra-low-pitch CW was the TS-870 but I never bothered trying low pitch CW reception until I tried it with the Icom. So, the fact that the K3 was able to copy the 4S7 station last night using a very low pitch (with F/W 3.25) was pretty exciting for me. Paul, W9AC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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The TS-930S had an infinitely variable PITCH control which went down to zero (and maybe even beyond to negative IF since it was analog). It simultaneously adjusted sidetone, filter center and TX offset so you were always zero beat if you matched the sidetone to the signal. It was easy to tune in a weak signal and then adjust PITCH for the optimum S/N for your ears. This is how I discovered my ears liked the 240-270 Hz range. Orion also allows setting PITCH as low as 200 Hz but I never used settings that low based on my experience with the 930. I still have my 930 and may have to drag it out to see what 50 Hz sounds like, but that sounds awfully low based on my previous experience. I still don't understand why the K3 limits us to 300 Hz PITCH when Orion (which has a very similar block diagram) goes to 200 Hz. Ten-Tec changed their original lower limit of 300 Hz to 200 Hz within a month of my request to lower it...and they also keep their crystal filters centered instead of shifting them at lower PITCH settings (as the K3 does), so the radios apparently have some differences that are not obvious to me. 73, Bill |
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Another thing that I've heard asked for a few times that I'd
appreciate is the ability to hear the signal while adjusting pitch rather than a solid tone. I know that if the user had no signal tuned that they be adjusting somewhat blind. However the band noise will still have a different sound based on the pitch selected. As far as the shift you're mentioning are you talking about the fact that the FC star moves to the freq that you have pitch configured for? The filter is still centered in the IF land but it looks like a shift because the K3 tells you about its filters in AF terms. BTH On 8/26/09, Bill W4ZV <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > P.B. Christensen wrote: >> Until I purchased >> the '7800 back in 2005, the only other radio I've owned that would produce >> >> ultra-low-pitch CW was the TS-870 but I never bothered trying low pitch CW >> >> reception until I tried it with the Icom. >> > > The TS-930S had an infinitely variable PITCH control which went down to zero > (and maybe even beyond to negative IF since it was analog). It > simultaneously adjusted sidetone, filter center and TX offset so you were > always zero beat if you matched the sidetone to the signal. It was easy to > tune in a weak signal and then adjust PITCH for the optimum S/N for your > ears. This is how I discovered my ears liked the 240-270 Hz range. Orion > also allows setting PITCH as low as 200 Hz but I never used settings that > low based on my experience with the 930. I still have my 930 and may have > to drag it out to see what 50 Hz sounds like, but that sounds awfully low > based on my previous experience. > > I still don't understand why the K3 limits us to 300 Hz PITCH when Orion > (which has a very similar block diagram) goes to 200 Hz. Ten-Tec changed > their original lower limit of 300 Hz to 200 Hz within a month of my request > to lower it...and they also keep their crystal filters centered instead of > shifting them at lower PITCH settings (as the K3 does), so the radios > apparently have some differences that are not obvious to me. > > 73, Bill > > -- > View this message in context: > http://n2.nabble.com/K3-NR-tp3515712p3519877.html > Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Bill W4ZV
> low based on my experience with the 930. I still have my 930 and may have
> to drag it out to see what 50 Hz sounds like, but that sounds awfully low > based on my previous experience. Not too many rigs have the audio capabilities to produce a reasonably flat response to 100 Hz and below. So, while the TS-930 may have had the ability to shift that low, it would be interesting to see if the audio path could produce the low offset. I have re-designed the audio path of the TS-850 (mods available on the KA0KA website) and TS-950 receivers, both of which required substantial invasive work to bring down below 100 Hz. Paul, W9AC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by AD4C2009
I agree also....Wayne and the boys hit it just right for me. Great job. Very noisy 40M today and the combination of the NB 3-3 and AFX pulled real understandable voices out of junk. I will play with the setting for awhile until I fine what is optimal for me but all in all it is just splitting hairs at this point.
Dan
Dan AB3EN |
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In reply to this post by Brett Howard
No. At low pitches, the MCU shifts the IF filter such that the lower side is never lower than ~200 Hz. If you're using a 500 Hz XFIL and PITCH 300, the XFIL passband is actually 200-700 Hz...not 300 +/-250 (i.e. not 50-550 which would be centered). Even though you see FC*.30 for the DSP filter, the IF filter is actually offset. 73, Bill |
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Ah ok then. I do know that with 3.25 and the shift ctrl set to .1 you
get some really nice LF response. On 8/26/09, Bill W4ZV <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > Brett Howard wrote: >> >> As far as the shift you're mentioning are you talking about the fact >> that the FC star moves to the freq that you have pitch configured for? >> The filter is still centered in the IF land but it looks like a shift >> because the K3 tells you about its filters in AF terms. >> > > No. At low pitches, the MCU shifts the IF filter such that the lower side > is never lower than ~200 Hz. If you're using a 500 Hz XFIL and PITCH 300, > the XFIL passband is actually 200-700 Hz...not 300 +/-250 (i.e. not 50-550 > which would be centered). Even though you see FC*.30 for the DSP filter, > the IF filter is actually offset. > > 73, Bill > > -- > View this message in context: > http://n2.nabble.com/K3-NR-tp3515712p3520443.html > Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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