K3: Noise reduction tutorial/primer available?

[Bill Smith]

Excellent thread, several fine responses.
 
This is one for Wayne and/or Eric to weigh in upon with Elecraft concise,  
straight talk
"this is how to use the NB and NR."
 
Over to you guys!
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[Don Wilhelm-4]

There was "straight talk" about NR from Lyle Johnson (who designed and
implemented the algorithms) in his reflector posts of 8/25/09 and
8/27/09 as well as the information in the Firmware Release Notes for
version 3.30 (avaliable using the K3 Utility Help pulldown).
Page 25 of the K3 manual has a comprehensive description of the tools
available  - Reducing Interference and Noise section.
The manual content is Wayne's work, so those who know most about those
implementations have already spoken.
I am not certain how much more authoritative information you are seeking.
As far as explicit "Here is how you use it" - each individual case or
instance of noise is different and will require different treatment.  
Each user will have to cycle through the settings available to see which
works best - the result is a compromise, there is little that can move a
signal out of the noise and provide a completely distortion-free and
clear copy signal - copy will be improved, but just how much is improved
and how much distortion is tolerable is a question each operator must
answer.

73,
Don W3FPR

[hidden email] wrote:
> Excellent thread, several fine responses.
>  
> This is one for Wayne and/or Eric to weigh in upon with Elecraft concise,  
> straight talk
> "this is how to use the NB and NR."
>  
> Over to you guys!
>
>  
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[Gary Dezern]

On Jul 9, 2010, at 3:00 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

>
> I am not certain how much more authoritative information you are seeking.
> As far as explicit "Here is how you use it" - each individual case or
> instance of noise is different and will require different treatment.  


At least for myself, it would be useful to have a paragraph or two that could be titled "K3 NB and NR for Dummies" and might look something like this:

Each operator and location will experience unique noise sources and conditions.  In order to best use the NB and NR tools, a certain amount of experimenting is required.  That being said, here are some general guidelines for using NB and NR tools under very "generic" situations.  Each operator will have to play around with these settings for their own situation!

NB:

Lightning noise:   (?????)
Power line noise:  ????
XYL is vacuuming the house:  ?????
Plasma TV noise:

NR:

Unlike the NB system, the NR tools are for combating random noise of an unknown (or random) source.  In this case, a starting place for using the tool might be easier based on mode rather than source:

SSB:  ????  (my favorite is 5-1)
CW:  ???
DATA:  OFF



.... then again, this would be better in a WIKI than the official documentation...

Take care
Gary / k3wow

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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Gary,

Have you read column 2 of page 25 in the manual?
What it says is very close to what you have requested - except for
explicitly stating that 'some experimentation is required'.
It does say which noise sources the IF Noise Blanker is better suited
for, and which the DSP Noise Blanker attacks more readily.
Further down, it states that the more aggressive NR settings will make
the signal sound "hollow".

I don't know just how much more information would be meaningful.  There
is no one setting that works best for any one type of noise all the time
- how far the noise source is from your antenna and how it propagates
are additional variables.  A "recipe" for any particular situation could
become quite complex.  To be a valid chart the noise characteristics
would have to be expressed in terms of the rise time, duration, and fall
times of the noise present *at* the K3 input (not at the source of
noise).  It makes no sense to me to attach the antenna feedline to a
spectrum analyzer to determine the characteristics of the noise before
selecting which one to use on the K3.  I think it much easier just to
try the various settings (given the guidelines already in the manual)
and find which one sounds best to your ears at that particular time -
most likely the "best" will be different tomorrow because the signal
affects the best choice as well as the noise type, and the signal will
change with propagation changes too.

73,
Don W3FPR

Gary Dezern wrote:

> At least for myself, it would be useful to have a paragraph or two that could be titled "K3 NB and NR for Dummies" and might look something like this:
>
> Each operator and location will experience unique noise sources and conditions.  In order to best use the NB and NR tools, a certain amount of experimenting is required.  That being said, here are some general guidelines for using NB and NR tools under very "generic" situations.  Each operator will have to play around with these settings for their own situation!
>
> NB:
>
> Lightning noise:   (?????)
> Power line noise:  ????
> XYL is vacuuming the house:  ?????
> Plasma TV noise:
>
> NR:
>
> Unlike the NB system, the NR tools are for combating random noise of an unknown (or random) source.  In this case, a starting place for using the tool might be easier based on mode rather than source:
>
> SSB:  ????  (my favorite is 5-1)
> CW:  ???
> DATA:  OFF
>
>  
>

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[Edward R Cole]

Don,

Thanks for the references.  Many of us were not on this reflector or
even owned a K3 in 2009 so would not know.  I am printing this off
for future reference when I am ready to investigate NR/NB more thoroughly.

73, Ed - KL7UW

-------------------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 15:00:26 -0400
From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Noise reduction tutorial/primer available?
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

There was "straight talk" about NR from Lyle Johnson (who designed and
implemented the algorithms) in his reflector posts of 8/25/09 and
8/27/09 as well as the information in the Firmware Release Notes for
version 3.30 (avaliable using the K3 Utility Help pulldown).
Page 25 of the K3 manual has a comprehensive description of the tools
available  - Reducing Interference and Noise section.
The manual content is Wayne's work, so those who know most about those
implementations have already spoken.
I am not certain how much more authoritative information you are seeking.
As far as explicit "Here is how you use it" - each individual case or
instance of noise is different and will require different treatment.
Each user will have to cycle through the settings available to see which
works best - the result is a compromise, there is little that can move a
signal out of the noise and provide a completely distortion-free and
clear copy signal - copy will be improved, but just how much is improved
and how much distortion is tolerable is a question each operator must
answer.

73,
Don W3FPR



73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
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