K3 QSK
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A friend of mine and myself noticed thumping using QSK with certain settings on the front panel.
My friend referred this issue to Wayne at Elecraft, he was able to duplicate it, and said it was being added to the "to do" list. Best way to eliminate this is to set the rig to semi BK IN, and turn the delay to a setting of 2. This should give you good QSK CW. Toby W4CAK ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Thumping? If this K3 started that stuff, it would be out the door faster
than a scared cat. Good QSK is hard to come by and it really surprises me to hear these comments. I mean come on now....."A friend noticed thumping" and with "Certain settings of the front panel" Certain settings? Is that in the manual? Steve Ellington [hidden email] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Toby Pennington" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:04 PM Subject: [Elecraft] K3 QSK >A friend of mine and myself noticed thumping using QSK with certain >settings on the front panel. > > My friend referred this issue to Wayne at Elecraft, he was able to > duplicate it, and said it was being added to the "to do" list. > > Best way to eliminate this is to set the rig to semi BK IN, and turn the > delay to a setting of 2. > This should give you good QSK CW. > > Toby W4CAK > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Steve et all,
Not his friend but have had this thumping problem since day 1 -- particularly with a low monitor level. For some reason it is less objectionable with monitor level up higher. You might try turning the monitor level near zero and give it a listen. Glad to see that Elecraft is finally going to address this. Nothing special in settings here. No AFX, no NR, no NB but narrow roofing filters (250 or 400 Hz) with DSP set anywhere between 150 Hz and 400 Hz. 73 de Brian/K3KO Steve Ellington wrote: >Thumping? If this K3 started that stuff, it would be out the door faster >than a scared cat. Good QSK is hard to come by and it really surprises me to >hear these comments. I mean come on now....."A friend noticed thumping" and >with "Certain settings of the front panel" Certain settings? Is that in the >manual? > >Steve Ellington >[hidden email] >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Toby Pennington" <[hidden email]> >To: <[hidden email]> >Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:04 PM >Subject: [Elecraft] K3 QSK > > > > >>A friend of mine and myself noticed thumping using QSK with certain >>settings on the front panel. >> >>My friend referred this issue to Wayne at Elecraft, he was able to >>duplicate it, and said it was being added to the "to do" list. >> >>Best way to eliminate this is to set the rig to semi BK IN, and turn the >>delay to a setting of 2. >>This should give you good QSK CW. >> >>Toby W4CAK >>______________________________________________________________ >>Elecraft mailing list >>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> > >______________________________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:[hidden email] > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.90/2199 - Release Date: 06/24/09 06:23:00 > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.90/2199 - Release Date: 06/24/09 06:23:00 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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That's really strange Brian. With my mon. at zero, keying the rig yields
zero thump. I wonder......If you decrease your power to zero if it has an effect on this thump....Or if you exit vox mode and key in PTT if there is a change. Just wondering if RF has hany bearing on the thump. This reminds me of my Omni V. I had to redress some leads and improve some ground paths to eliminate a nasty click. Steve N4LQ [hidden email] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Alsop" <[hidden email]> Cc: <[hidden email]> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:38 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 QSK > Steve et all, > Not his friend but have had this thumping problem since day 1 -- > particularly with a low monitor level. > For some reason it is less objectionable with monitor level up higher. > You might try turning the monitor level near zero and give it a listen. > Glad to see that Elecraft is finally going to address this. > Nothing special in settings here. No AFX, no NR, no NB but narrow > roofing filters (250 or 400 Hz) with DSP set anywhere between 150 Hz and > 400 Hz. > 73 de Brian/K3KO > > Steve Ellington wrote: > >>Thumping? If this K3 started that stuff, it would be out the door faster >>than a scared cat. Good QSK is hard to come by and it really surprises me >>to >>hear these comments. I mean come on now....."A friend noticed thumping" >>and >>with "Certain settings of the front panel" Certain settings? Is that in >>the >>manual? >> >>Steve Ellington >>[hidden email] >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Toby Pennington" <[hidden email]> >>To: <[hidden email]> >>Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:04 PM >>Subject: [Elecraft] K3 QSK >> >> >> >> >>>A friend of mine and myself noticed thumping using QSK with certain >>>settings on the front panel. >>> >>>My friend referred this issue to Wayne at Elecraft, he was able to >>>duplicate it, and said it was being added to the "to do" list. >>> >>>Best way to eliminate this is to set the rig to semi BK IN, and turn the >>>delay to a setting of 2. >>>This should give you good QSK CW. >>> >>>Toby W4CAK >>>______________________________________________________________ >>>Elecraft mailing list >>>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>> >>>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> >>> >> >>______________________________________________________________ >>Elecraft mailing list >>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.90/2199 - Release Date: 06/24/09 >>06:23:00 >> >> >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.90/2199 - Release Date: 06/24/09 06:23:00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Steve Ellington
Steve, Here is what I found out and have reported the thumping. Was told it would be fixed. You can still use full QSK by following turning down the AF or RF gain some. Ref the following. It is a copy of what I reported to Elecraft. I finally figured out the thumping noise we heard while in QSK mode. Discovered this in the evenings when the band was noisy and the signals were weak. Another ham with a K3, turned up the RF gain and AF gain so he could pull my signal up. We were both using QSK. He heard this thumping and for the next hr we tried to figure what the cause was. Today I tried several things in an effort to duplicate the thumping. I finally hit the combination that causes it. See if you can duplicate this: 80M or 40M CW mode QSK AF GAIN ON HI or LOW RF gain at about 3 o'clock to full open (clockwise). AF gain knob at 3 o'clock or above. Transmit either on air or TX Test mode. You will hear the thumping sound? Now turn down AF gain unit it goes away. Or you can turn down RF gain and all is well. The default or and other AGC settings has no affect on the thumping. Solution is not to turn the RF gain up above about 1 o'clock if the AF gain is about 12 o'clock or Keep the RF gain below 12: o'clock if you have the AF gain above about 3 o'clock. Ron NA9F <quote author="Steve Ellington"> Thumping? If this K3 started that stuff, it would be out the door faster than a scared cat. Good QSK is hard to come by and it really surprises me to hear these comments. I mean come on now....."A friend noticed thumping" and with "Certain settings of the front panel" Certain settings? Is that in the manual? |
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Is this a real problem or misadjustment? I *NEVER* set AF gain higher than 12 o'clock...normally it's 9-10 o'clock (with CONFIG AF Gain LO for my headphones). RF Gain is normally 1 o'clock to 12 o'clock, even with ATT ON for 160m at this noisy time of year (i.e. thunderstorm QRN). I could probably make my rig do a lot of strange things if I misadjusted it...but why would I want to? 73, Bill |
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In reply to this post by Ron NA9F
Ron
Are you serious about the AF gain at 12 o'clock? No wonder you hear thumps! Mine is just barely cracked open or almost fully counterclockwise. If I turned it up 9 o'clock it would likely spin my ceiling fan and peel the paint off the walls!!! So what kind of speaker are you using? I bet it's one of those "HI-FI" jobs with a big magnet made for a typical stereo system. I'm using an old Heathkit HS-1661 which has a small magnet and 1/2 watt will blow you away. Steve N4LQ [hidden email] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron NA9F" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 QSK > > > Steve, > > Here is what I found out and have reported the thumping. Was told it would > be fixed. > You can still use full QSK by following turning down the AF or RF gain > some. > Ref the > following. It is a copy of what I reported to Elecraft. > > I finally figured out the thumping noise we heard while in QSK mode. > Discovered this in the evenings when the band was noisy and the signals > were > weak. > Another ham with a K3, turned up the RF gain and AF gain so he could pull > my > signal up. We were both using QSK. > He heard this thumping and for the next hr we tried to figure what the > cause > was. Today I tried several things in an effort to > duplicate the thumping. I finally hit the combination that causes it. > See if you can duplicate this: > > 80M or 40M > CW mode > QSK > AF GAIN ON HI or LOW > RF gain at about 3 o'clock to full open (clockwise). > AF gain knob at 3 o'clock or above. > Transmit either on air or TX Test mode. > > You will hear the thumping sound? Now turn down AF gain unit it goes away. > Or you can turn down RF gain and all is well. > > The default or and other AGC settings has no affect on the thumping. > > Solution is not to turn the RF gain up above about 1 o'clock if the AF > gain > is about 12 o'clock or Keep the RF gain below 12: o'clock > if you have the AF gain above about 3 o'clock. > > Ron NA9F > > > > > > Thumping? If this K3 started that stuff, it would be out the door faster > than a scared cat. Good QSK is hard to come by and it really surprises me > to > hear these comments. I mean come on now....."A friend noticed thumping" > and > with "Certain settings of the front panel" Certain settings? Is that in > the > manual? > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://n2.nabble.com/K3-QSK-tp3146071p3155027.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Wow! As others have noted .... that's a --really-- high
audio level! Could something be wrong ... shorted speaker cable or even a defective speaker? It isn't a case of the infamous mono plug into the stereo speaker jack, is it? 73! Ken K0PP ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Bill W4ZV
Hi Bill,
You are just like I am when it comes to RF and AF
settings. I only worked to find why Toby was hearing the thumping and ran across
this. With our settings we will never hear it but if someone runs the RF gain
wide open they will.
Ron NA9F
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In reply to this post by Steve Ellington
Hello Steve,
You are just like I am when it comes to RF and AF
settings. I only worked to find why Toby was hearing the thumping and ran across
this. With our settings we will never hear it but if someone runs the RF gain
wide open they will. Not sure why a person would want to run the RF wide
open.
Ron NA9F
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I almost always run the RF gain full open. Oh....I guess after the firmware
where they changed how it works with AGC off, I've been backing making more use of it. Nothing I do reproduces this thump problem you guys are hearing. There is certainly something strange that causes you to turn your AF gain and sidetone level up so high. With a speaker, my sidetone is usually at 12 to 15 and at 40 with headphones (32 ohms). I'm sure glad I have an OLD K3 now! Steve N4LQ [hidden email] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron NA9F" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:54 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 QSK > > Hello Steve, > > You are just like I am when it comes to RF and AF settings. I only worked > to find why Toby was hearing the thumping and ran across this. With our > settings we will never hear it but if someone runs the RF gain wide open > they will. Not sure why a person would want to run the RF wide open. > > Ron NA9F > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Ellington (via Nabble) > To: Ron NA9F > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:56 AM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 QSK > > > Ron > Are you serious about the AF gain at 12 o'clock? No wonder you hear > thumps! > Mine is just barely cracked open or almost fully counterclockwise. If I > turned it up 9 o'clock it would likely spin my ceiling fan and peel the > paint off the walls!!! So what kind of speaker are you using? I bet it's > one > of those "HI-FI" jobs with a big magnet made for a typical stereo system. > I'm using an old Heathkit HS-1661 which has a small magnet and 1/2 watt > will > blow you away. > > Steve > N4LQ > N4LQ@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron NA9F" <rjhinton@...> > To: <elecraft@...> > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:31 AM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 QSK > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > Here is what I found out and have reported the thumping. Was told it > would > > be fixed. > > You can still use full QSK by following turning down the AF or RF gain > > some. > > Ref the > > following. It is a copy of what I reported to Elecraft. > > > > I finally figured out the thumping noise we heard while in QSK mode. > > Discovered this in the evenings when the band was noisy and the signals > > were > > weak. > > Another ham with a K3, turned up the RF gain and AF gain so he could > pull > > my > > signal up. We were both using QSK. > > He heard this thumping and for the next hr we tried to figure what the > > cause > > was. Today I tried several things in an effort to > > duplicate the thumping. I finally hit the combination that causes it. > > See if you can duplicate this: > > > > 80M or 40M > > CW mode > > QSK > > AF GAIN ON HI or LOW > > RF gain at about 3 o'clock to full open (clockwise). > > AF gain knob at 3 o'clock or above. > > Transmit either on air or TX Test mode. > > > > You will hear the thumping sound? Now turn down AF gain unit it goes > away. > > Or you can turn down RF gain and all is well. > > > > The default or and other AGC settings has no affect on the thumping. > > > > Solution is not to turn the RF gain up above about 1 o'clock if the AF > > gain > > is about 12 o'clock or Keep the RF gain below 12: o'clock > > if you have the AF gain above about 3 o'clock. > > > > Ron NA9F > > > > > > > > > > > > Thumping? If this K3 started that stuff, it would be out the door > faster > > than a scared cat. Good QSK is hard to come by and it really surprises > me > > to > > hear these comments. I mean come on now....."A friend noticed thumping" > > and > > with "Certain settings of the front panel" Certain settings? Is that in > > the > > manual? > > > > > > -- > > View this message in context: > > http://n2.nabble.com/K3-QSK-tp3146071p3155027.html > > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:Elecraft@... > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@... > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > This email is a reply to your post @ > http://n2.nabble.com/K3-QSK-tp3146071p3155878.html > You can reply by email or by visting the link above. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.91/2201 - Release Date: > 06/25/09 06:22:00 > > -- > View this message in context: > http://n2.nabble.com/K3-QSK-tp3146071p3158316.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Tobyp
I can duplicate what might be called QSK thumps with high volume settings
and using earphones or speakers. I have the choke change but have not modified low frequency response with larger caps. I think the thumps come on key up not key down. Everything is fine when I have the volume set at a normal level. I begin hearing thumps at a volume setting of 11 O'Clock. What I believe I am hearing though is not an artifact but just high band noise between dits that give an impression of thumps. The high band noise is being gated by TR switching. I suspect if I didn't live in a high noise environment I wouldn't here this. Mike Scott - AE6WA Tarzana, CA (DM04 / near LA) NAQCC 3535 K3-100 #508 / KX1 #1311 I sat down in TEST mode and tried all the combinations you mentioned again and can't produce thumps. I even tried every possible combination of AF/RF and MON levels with no thump. So I'm sri to say obviously something is different between our rigs and setups, but I can't imagine what. The only audio mod involving a change on the main board is to change a choke, not a cap. It reduces the resistance of the choke to improve the voltage regulation at the AF Amp. I've made that too. When I said my K3 was "stock" Elecraft, it does have the Elecraft-approved and documented mods made while writing the app notes. I asked wondering if the capacitor changes some have made to improve the low-frequency response were making the low frequency 'thumps' stronger and audible. If you've not done them, we should have similar rigs. Ron AC7AC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I posted that I could not duplicate the thumps on #2603. After trying a
few more times I am hearing exactly what Mike describes, and after talking with Toby, it may be a difference in terminology, at least on my part. I hear the same thing but I describe it as pops or clicks, and as Mike says it seems to be from the high background noise, not that I have a high level of background noise, mine is S2, but from the high level of the RF gain control, I never hear these artifacts due to the way I use the AF/RF controls, my AF is usually set about 12 o'clock and RF about the same, I use the RF as the gain control, I think this was described many times in the past by others. The thump is also noticeable if there are signals on the band inside the passband, I have the monitor volume set high enough that it equals those signals in volume so the thump is less noticeable. Some of these anomaly are hard to define, and finding a word to describe the sound is difficult. To me its pops or dull clicks, others its thumps, but we agree we are hearing something. 73 Merv KH7C > I can duplicate what might be called QSK thumps with high volume settings > and using earphones or speakers. I have the choke change but have not > modified low frequency response with larger caps. I think the thumps come on > key up not key down. > Everything is fine when I have the volume set at a normal level. I begin > hearing thumps at a volume setting of 11 O'Clock. > > What I believe I am hearing though is not an artifact but just high band > noise between dits that give an impression of thumps. The high band noise is > being gated by TR switching. I suspect if I didn't live in a high noise > environment I wouldn't here this. > > Mike Scott - AE6WA > Tarzana, CA (DM04 / near LA) > NAQCC 3535 > K3-100 #508 / KX1 #1311 > > I sat down in TEST mode and tried all the combinations you mentioned again > and can't produce thumps. I even tried every possible combination of AF/RF > and MON levels with no thump. > > So I'm sri to say obviously something is different between our rigs and > setups, but I can't imagine what. > > The only audio mod involving a change on the main board is to change a > choke, not a cap. It reduces the resistance of the choke to improve the > voltage regulation at the AF Amp. I've made that too. When I said my K3 was > "stock" Elecraft, it does have the Elecraft-approved and documented mods > made while writing the app notes. > > I asked wondering if the capacitor changes some have made to improve the > low-frequency response were making the low frequency 'thumps' stronger and > audible. If you've not done them, we should have similar rigs. > > Ron AC7AC > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Ser 410....Volume at MAX. RF Gain 12 o'clock. Sidetone 0. Nothing heard
except a bit of band noise. Cleanest QSK I have ever seen. Believe me....I'm picky. I have no 2nd receiver. Steve N4LQ [hidden email] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merv Schweigert" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Cc: <[hidden email]> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 1:27 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 QSK >I posted that I could not duplicate the thumps on #2603. After trying a > few more times > I am hearing exactly what Mike describes, and after talking with Toby, > it may be a > difference in terminology, at least on my part. I hear the same thing > but I describe it > as pops or clicks, and as Mike says it seems to be from the high > background noise, > not that I have a high level of background noise, mine is S2, but from > the high level > of the RF gain control, I never hear these artifacts due to the way I > use the AF/RF > controls, my AF is usually set about 12 o'clock and RF about the same, > I use the > RF as the gain control, I think this was described many times in the > past by others. > The thump is also noticeable if there are signals on the band inside the > passband, I have > the monitor volume set high enough that it equals those signals in > volume so the > thump is less noticeable. > Some of these anomaly are hard to define, and finding a word to > describe the sound > is difficult. To me its pops or dull clicks, others its thumps, but we > agree we are > hearing something. > 73 Merv KH7C > >> I can duplicate what might be called QSK thumps with high volume settings >> and using earphones or speakers. I have the choke change but have not >> modified low frequency response with larger caps. I think the thumps come >> on >> key up not key down. >> Everything is fine when I have the volume set at a normal level. I begin >> hearing thumps at a volume setting of 11 O'Clock. >> >> What I believe I am hearing though is not an artifact but just high band >> noise between dits that give an impression of thumps. The high band noise >> is >> being gated by TR switching. I suspect if I didn't live in a high noise >> environment I wouldn't here this. >> >> Mike Scott - AE6WA >> Tarzana, CA (DM04 / near LA) >> NAQCC 3535 >> K3-100 #508 / KX1 #1311 >> >> I sat down in TEST mode and tried all the combinations you mentioned >> again >> and can't produce thumps. I even tried every possible combination of >> AF/RF >> and MON levels with no thump. >> >> So I'm sri to say obviously something is different between our rigs and >> setups, but I can't imagine what. >> >> The only audio mod involving a change on the main board is to change a >> choke, not a cap. It reduces the resistance of the choke to improve the >> voltage regulation at the AF Amp. I've made that too. When I said my K3 >> was >> "stock" Elecraft, it does have the Elecraft-approved and documented mods >> made while writing the app notes. >> >> I asked wondering if the capacitor changes some have made to improve the >> low-frequency response were making the low frequency 'thumps' stronger >> and >> audible. If you've not done them, we should have similar rigs. >> >> Ron AC7AC >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Merv Schweigert
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In reply to this post by Merv Schweigert
With all the discussion about what may or may not be a "thump" and what it actually sounds like, I'm a bit surprised nobody has bothered to post a simple recording of it so that the rest of us don't have to guess at what you're hearing. Dave AB7E Merv Schweigert wrote: > I posted that I could not duplicate the thumps on #2603. After trying a > few more times > I am hearing exactly what Mike describes, and after talking with Toby, > it may be a > difference in terminology, at least on my part. I hear the same thing > but I describe it > as pops or clicks, and as Mike says it seems to be from the high > background noise, > not that I have a high level of background noise, mine is S2, but from > the high level > of the RF gain control, I never hear these artifacts due to the way I > use the AF/RF > controls, my AF is usually set about 12 o'clock and RF about the same, > I use the > RF as the gain control, I think this was described many times in the > past by others. > The thump is also noticeable if there are signals on the band inside the > passband, I have > the monitor volume set high enough that it equals those signals in > volume so the > thump is less noticeable. > Some of these anomaly are hard to define, and finding a word to > describe the sound > is difficult. To me its pops or dull clicks, others its thumps, but we > agree we are > hearing something. > 73 Merv KH7C > > >> I can duplicate what might be called QSK thumps with high volume settings >> and using earphones or speakers. I have the choke change but have not >> modified low frequency response with larger caps. I think the thumps come on >> key up not key down. >> Everything is fine when I have the volume set at a normal level. I begin >> hearing thumps at a volume setting of 11 O'Clock. >> >> What I believe I am hearing though is not an artifact but just high band >> noise between dits that give an impression of thumps. The high band noise is >> being gated by TR switching. I suspect if I didn't live in a high noise >> environment I wouldn't here this. >> >> Mike Scott - AE6WA >> Tarzana, CA (DM04 / near LA) >> NAQCC 3535 >> K3-100 #508 / KX1 #1311 >> >> I sat down in TEST mode and tried all the combinations you mentioned again >> and can't produce thumps. I even tried every possible combination of AF/RF >> and MON levels with no thump. >> >> So I'm sri to say obviously something is different between our rigs and >> setups, but I can't imagine what. >> >> The only audio mod involving a change on the main board is to change a >> choke, not a cap. It reduces the resistance of the choke to improve the >> voltage regulation at the AF Amp. I've made that too. When I said my K3 was >> "stock" Elecraft, it does have the Elecraft-approved and documented mods >> made while writing the app notes. >> >> I asked wondering if the capacitor changes some have made to improve the >> low-frequency response were making the low frequency 'thumps' stronger and >> audible. If you've not done them, we should have similar rigs. >> >> Ron AC7AC >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> >> > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by AC7AC
Correct Ron, and I hear none of the low freq thumping.
As I mentioned I dont usually hear anything at all running the AF/RF as I described in normal operation. I have no problems, but I can duplicate the problem others are having with the RF gain wide open. Merv KH7C > Merv, KH7C wrote: > > I posted that I could not duplicate the thumps on #2603. After trying a few > more times I am hearing exactly what Mike describes, and after talking with > Toby, it may be a difference in terminology, at least on my part. I hear > the same thing but I describe it as pops or clicks, and as Mike says it > seems to be from the high background noise, not that I have a high level of > background noise, mine is S2, but from the high level of the RF gain > control... > > ----------------------------------------------- > > Certainly you can create higher-frequency "clicks" and other noises. That's > a matter of turning up the gains so you have band noise (QRN) coming through > the audio, then adjusting the keyer and TX timing so that only very short > bursts of noise blast through between code elements. > > That's perfectly normal in a QSK system. You are "hearing" in the very short > interval between code elements. > > That's not the low-frequency "thumping" that occurs in some QSK circuits by > the transition from tx to rx. Typical "thumping" will be heard with the RF > gain turned all the way down (to suppress the band noise) and sounds just > like someone thumping of a big bass drum or hollow log. > > Ron AC7AC > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by David Gilbert
Merv,
After reading your post I played with the K3 more and I think you are right about it being an impression of thumps. To me it is high band noise on 40 and 80 m. I went up to the higher bands where there is very little band noise and do not hear the thumping. I also switched back to the low bands and heard it. Then switched to a dummy load and I did not hear the thumping. Thanks for shedding more light on this subject. Ron NA9F Merv Schweigert wrote: >> >> What I believe I am hearing though is not an artifact but just high band >> noise between dits that give an impression of thumps. The high band noise is >> being gated by TR switching. I suspect if I didn't live in a high noise >> environment I wouldn't here this. |
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Correct Ron. With slow QSK like some rigs have, you would hear nothing
between characters but the K3 is fast enough to allow the tiny window of noise to pop through and to some, it sounds like a thump or a click and actually in a way, it is. If you tune in a steady carrier and key at about 40 wpm, you will hear short clicks. That's the carrier popping through and those short impulses get interpreted as clicks by our ears. I believe there have been a few faster QSK rigs in the past but not many. Some of the highly respected TenTec rigs had very smooth QSK but not quiet as fast as we might think. The fastest QSK I ever saw was the original IC-706. You could tune in a steady carrier, key the rig with dits at 60 WPM and actually hear a tone. It was awesome BUT the 706 was chopping the dits down to almost nothing and leaving a nice, wide window between them so we could hear the carrier. Of course, the poor guy on the other end had a hard time copying those choppy little dits and the loud relay sounded like a machine gun. So faster isn't always better. Some say the IC-781 had the fastest QSK ever. I had one for a while but never tested it above 50 wpm. If the band noise becomes a problem, you have several choices with the K3. Reduce the RF gain down to the noise threshold, turn up the sidetone level, open the bandwidth to take the bite off the noise or just add some delay. Some CW ops are so distracted by the band noise that they simply can't function. For those folks, just use slow VOX and keep your monologs short lest the guy on the other end fades away or falls to sleep :*) Steve N4LQ [hidden email] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron NA9F" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 QSK > > Merv, > After reading your post I played with the K3 more and I think you are > right > about it being an impression of thumps. To me it is high band noise on 40 > and 80 m. I went up to the higher > bands where there is very little band noise and do not hear the thumping. > I > also switched back > to the low bands and heard it. Then switched to a dummy load and I did not > hear the thumping. > Thanks for shedding more light on this subject. > > Ron NA9F > > > > Merv Schweigert wrote: > >>> >>> What I believe I am hearing though is not an artifact but just high band >>> noise between dits that give an impression of thumps. The high band >>> noise >>> is >>> being gated by TR switching. I suspect if I didn't live in a high noise >>> environment I wouldn't here this. > > -- > View this message in context: > http://n2.nabble.com/K3-QSK-tp3146071p3166606.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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