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K3: Question about data modes...

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NK7Z

K3: Question about data modes...

Hi all,

What EXACTLY is the difference between "AFSK A", and "DATA A".

Here is why I ask:

In AFSK A Mode:
While using MixW, and looking at the MixW screen, and in USB on the K3,
as I tune using the knob, the MixW screen shows the signal stuck to a
frequency on the top calibration marks on MixW. The signal never moves
from the frequency indicated on the MixW software in the waterfall.

In DATA A Mode:
All settings the same with the exception of switching from AFSK A to
DATA A. The signal moves relative to the frequency marks on MixW. i.e.
if the signal started at 14.0000, as I tune the knob, MixW tracks the
frequency, moving the scale above the waterfall, while the signal
appears to move independently of the waterfall calibration marks...

I have tried REV sideband on the K3, and the same thing still
happens...

Is there a resource I can read telling me EXACTLY what each data mode
does? I have KE7X's book, and that does not explain why I am seeing
what I am seeing... At least not to me... I am putting my macros
together, and need to get my head around EXACTLY what the two modes do,
as they set up the radio.

--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3: Question about data modes...

In simple terms:

AFSK A is LSB, AFSK TX filter (MENU: AFSK TX) is available and
controlled by PITCH (Mark), audio input uses data selection.
TX and RX EQ are disabled. Receive dual tone (dual peak) filter
is available. Frequency (VFO) display reflects *MARK*

DATA A is USB, AFSK TX filter is not available, default center
frequency is set by FC (shift), audio input uses data selection,
TX and RX EQ are disabled. Receive dual tone filter (dual peak)
filter is not available. Frequency (VFO) display reflects *carrier*.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-07-16 10:03 AM, David Cole wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> What EXACTLY is the difference between "AFSK A", and "DATA A".
>
> Here is why I ask:
>
> In AFSK A Mode:
> While using MixW, and looking at the MixW screen, and in USB on the K3,
> as I tune using the knob, the MixW screen shows the signal stuck to a
> frequency on the top calibration marks on MixW. The signal never moves
> from the frequency indicated on the MixW software in the waterfall.
>
> In DATA A Mode:
> All settings the same with the exception of switching from AFSK A to
> DATA A. The signal moves relative to the frequency marks on MixW. i.e.
> if the signal started at 14.0000, as I tune the knob, MixW tracks the
> frequency, moving the scale above the waterfall, while the signal
> appears to move independently of the waterfall calibration marks...
>
> I have tried REV sideband on the K3, and the same thing still
> happens...
>
> Is there a resource I can read telling me EXACTLY what each data mode
> does? I have KE7X's book, and that does not explain why I am seeing
> what I am seeing... At least not to me... I am putting my macros
> together, and need to get my head around EXACTLY what the two modes do,
> as they set up the radio.
>
>

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3: Question about data modes...

In reply to this post by NK7Z

David,

AFSK A is optimized for use with RTTY. It defaults to LSB and the
frequency displayed is the frequency of the Mark tone. The latter
feature does not make too much sense to me when using a waterfall
display, but it makes a lot of sense when using narrow filters and
tuning to a RTTY station with the VFO. If one arranges sked with an
RTTY station, the sked frequency will normally be given as the mark
frequency.

Data A is the best to use for those soundcard data modes where a
waterfall display is used. It defaults to the usual USB used for many
data modes. The K3 frequency display is the frequency of the suppressed
carrier.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/16/2014 10:03 AM, David Cole wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> What EXACTLY is the difference between "AFSK A", and "DATA A".
>

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NK7Z

Re: K3: Question about data modes...

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Joe,
Is there something else that might explain the actions of the signal in
the waterfall of MixW?

I have tried DATA A in REV sideband, (I thought that would fix the
issue), and the signal does not stay pinned to the same frequency under
the MixW calibration marks... As I tune up, MixW moves the calibration
marks, but the signal moves in the opposite direction... This happens
no matter if in REV or not, In DATA A, it never tracks correctly. If I
reach over and switch to AFSK A, it tracks as expected... Stays pinned
to the frequency marker, which is moved as I tune.

I would expect that only changing to REV would correct this, but it does
not. Hence why I question my understanding...
--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

On Wed, 2014-07-16 at 10:20 -0400, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

> In simple terms:
>
> AFSK A is LSB, AFSK TX filter (MENU: AFSK TX) is available and
> controlled by PITCH (Mark), audio input uses data selection.
> TX and RX EQ are disabled. Receive dual tone (dual peak) filter
> is available. Frequency (VFO) display reflects *MARK*
>
> DATA A is USB, AFSK TX filter is not available, default center
> frequency is set by FC (shift), audio input uses data selection,
> TX and RX EQ are disabled. Receive dual tone filter (dual peak)
> filter is not available. Frequency (VFO) display reflects *carrier*.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2014-07-16 10:03 AM, David Cole wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > What EXACTLY is the difference between "AFSK A", and "DATA A".
> >
> > Here is why I ask:
> >
> > In AFSK A Mode:
> > While using MixW, and looking at the MixW screen, and in USB on the K3,
> > as I tune using the knob, the MixW screen shows the signal stuck to a
> > frequency on the top calibration marks on MixW. The signal never moves
> > from the frequency indicated on the MixW software in the waterfall.
> >
> > In DATA A Mode:
> > All settings the same with the exception of switching from AFSK A to
> > DATA A. The signal moves relative to the frequency marks on MixW. i.e.
> > if the signal started at 14.0000, as I tune the knob, MixW tracks the
> > frequency, moving the scale above the waterfall, while the signal
> > appears to move independently of the waterfall calibration marks...
> >
> > I have tried REV sideband on the K3, and the same thing still
> > happens...
> >
> > Is there a resource I can read telling me EXACTLY what each data mode
> > does? I have KE7X's book, and that does not explain why I am seeing
> > what I am seeing... At least not to me... I am putting my macros
> > together, and need to get my head around EXACTLY what the two modes do,
> > as they set up the radio.
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3: Question about data modes...

*I don't use MixW* but it sounds like MixW is in the wrong sideband.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-07-16 10:54 AM, David Cole wrote:

> Joe,
> Is there something else that might explain the actions of the signal in
> the waterfall of MixW?
>
> I have tried DATA A in REV sideband, (I thought that would fix the
> issue), and the signal does not stay pinned to the same frequency under
> the MixW calibration marks... As I tune up, MixW moves the calibration
> marks, but the signal moves in the opposite direction... This happens
> no matter if in REV or not, In DATA A, it never tracks correctly. If I
> reach over and switch to AFSK A, it tracks as expected... Stays pinned
> to the frequency marker, which is moved as I tune.
>
> I would expect that only changing to REV would correct this, but it does
> not. Hence why I question my understanding...
>

NK7Z

Re: K3: Question about data modes...

Hi Joe,
I was thinking that as well, but MixW is using USB. As a test I
reversed the sideband by pressing the mode until I saw REV pop up. I
would have expected that to correct the issue if the software were on
the wrong sideband, but it just makes it fail the opposite
direction...

My belief tells me that I should be able to reverse sideband on the
radio, and reverse sideband on the software and it should still work...
Is that a correct understanding? What drives me nuts is that I have it
working for CW and RTTY, both use LSB... I use DATA A for and USB on
the radio for JT65 and that works. My only issue is with PSK... Maybe
because PSK works in USB or LSB the software, (MixW), defaults to LSB,
no matter how it is set.
--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

On Wed, 2014-07-16 at 14:57 -0400, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

> *I don't use MixW* but it sounds like MixW is in the wrong sideband.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2014-07-16 10:54 AM, David Cole wrote:
> > Joe,
> > Is there something else that might explain the actions of the signal in
> > the waterfall of MixW?
> >
> > I have tried DATA A in REV sideband, (I thought that would fix the
> > issue), and the signal does not stay pinned to the same frequency under
> > the MixW calibration marks... As I tune up, MixW moves the calibration
> > marks, but the signal moves in the opposite direction... This happens
> > no matter if in REV or not, In DATA A, it never tracks correctly. If I
> > reach over and switch to AFSK A, it tracks as expected... Stays pinned
> > to the frequency marker, which is moved as I tune.
> >
> > I would expect that only changing to REV would correct this, but it does
> > not. Hence why I question my understanding...
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

k5oai

Re: K3: Question about data modes...

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

looks like the mixw pdf help file(s)

MixW 2.19 Help File by Scott Hill, K6IX

http://k6ix.net/MixW.html

is more complete than the one found in the actual mixw 2.20 pgm

On 7/16/2014 1:57 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>
> *I don't use MixW* but it sounds like MixW is in the wrong sideband.
> 73,
> ... Joe, W4TV

> On 2014-07-16 10:54 AM, David Cole wrote:
>> Joe,
>> Is there something else that might explain the actions of the signal in
>> the waterfall of MixW?
>>
>> I have tried DATA A in REV sideband, (I thought that would fix the
>> issue), and the signal does not stay pinned to the same frequency under
>> the MixW calibration marks... As I tune up, MixW moves the calibration
>> marks, but the signal moves in the opposite direction... This happens
>> no matter if in REV or not, In DATA A, it never tracks correctly. If I
>> reach over and switch to AFSK A, it tracks as expected... Stays pinned
>> to the frequency marker, which is moved as I tune.
>>
>> I would expect that only changing to REV would correct this, but it does
>> not. Hence why I question my understanding...

--
GB & 73
K5OAI
Sam Morgan
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Richard Ferch

Re: K3: Question about data modes...

In reply to this post by NK7Z

It's been quite a few years since I used MixW, but here goes:

1. Last time I tried it, MixW did not understand the K3's digital
sub-modes. Basically it acted as if they were all the same (either FSK D
or AFSK A), i.e. on LSB. Even when I put the rig in DATA A, MixW still
acted as though the radio was in LSB.

2. If the waterfall is in Auto mode, MixW recognizes when the rig is in
REV, and automatically adjusts its sideband to accommodate the switch.
In other words, if it was on the wrong sideband without REV, after
entering REV MixW automatically changes its sideband so it will still be
on the wrong sideband. The solution to this is to take MixW out of Auto
mode and force the waterfall to be in USB regardless of whether the
radio is in REV or not.

3. One other problem is the frequency offset: in FSK D and AFSK A , the
K3's dial displays the Mark frequency, whereas in DATA A it displays the
suppressed carrier frequency. Therefore you may need to supply a
frequency offset to get MixW to display the correct frequency.

My recollection was that I was able to configure MixW either to work
correctly in AFSK A/FSK D, or in DATA A, but not in both, at least not
without making configuration changes when I changed data sub-modes. I
have no idea whether the current version is any different, but your
experience suggests that it may still have this problem.

73,
Rich VE3KI

NK7Z wrote:

> My belief tells me that I should be able to reverse sideband on the
> radio, and reverse sideband on the software and it should still work...
> Is that a correct understanding?

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