K3: Relay noise?
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I recently ran into a similar issue when interfacing an Ameitron QSK-5, K3,
and SPE 1K amplifier. Regardless of power through the QSK-5, it produces an audible "tick" when keying. Yes, there are two relays inside the QSK-5 unit, but neither is the cause. It turns out that the QSK-5's PIN diodes are being biased with moderately high voltage. The ticking sound follows the application of diode bias. I could swear it was the input signaling relay when I tried to localize the sound. Only, the PCB is functioning as an acoustical sound board (akin to a piano or violin), amplifying the "tick" produced by the biasing of the PIN diodes. I still don't know the exact ticking mechanism. I've heard similar effects when using high-voltage transistors. Anyone who has worked extensively with these transistors or high-power PIN diodes care to add an explanation? Paul, W9AC ----- Original Message ----- From: "AC7JW" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:40 AM Subject: [Elecraft] [K3] RE: K3: Relay noise? > > Thanks Steve. > > It's sure strange that I get the same click whether I run 1 W, or 100 W. > I > could understand some sort of residual magnetic effect (for lack of a > better > term) causing some mechanical movement to create the noise if it was only > present while running high power, in which case high currents are present, > and thus the potential for a powerful magnetic field. But at 1 watt- there > is something else going on. In any case, I don't think it's a problem- > just > an annoyance. > > Jason > > > > From: Steve Ellington [via Elecraft] > [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 8:57 PM > To: AC7JW > Subject: Re: K3: Relay noise? > > > > I used some plastic tubing stuck in one ear trying to track it down. I > narrowed it down to one relay but it's been at least 6 months ago and I > can't recall which one made the noise. I had suggestions to check for > loose > ferrite chokes along the high current DC line but that wasn't the source. > If > > I happen to remember which relay it was, I'll post it here. 73 > Steve > N4LQ > [hidden email] > <http://n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4143590&i=0> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "AC7JW" <[hidden email] > <http://n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4143590&i=1> > > To: <[hidden email] > <http://n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4143590&i=2> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:40 PM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Relay noise? > > >> >> I've followed this thread concerning a QSK clicking noise through all >> comments, as well as other similar threads on the list, but it doesn't >> appear as if anyone ever came to a firm conclusion as to origin of this >> clicking noise. As others have stated, I can hear a very faint mechanical >> clicking that follows my code when using QSK. It sounds like it's coming >> from the KPA100 region, but I can't tell for sure. >> Did anyone ever come to a conclusion, or receive any information from >> Elecraft? >> >> Thanks- >> Jason AC7JW >> >> >> Steve Ellington wrote: >>> >>> Is there a mechanical relay that follows keying? I've had my K3 for >>> nearly >>> a >>> year and didn't notice any relay noise until lately. I know the antenna >>> TR >>> is done by pin diodes but I can now hear the faint click of a small >>> relay > >>> that wasn't there before. I'm using ver. 2.8 >>> Steve Ellington >>> [hidden email] > <http://n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4143590&i=3> >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] > <http://n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4143590&i=4> >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> >>> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Relay-noise-tp2269079p4143403.html >> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] > <http://n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4143590&i=5> >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.101/2555 - Release Date: > 12/09/09 > 14:41:00 > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > <http://n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4143590&i=6> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > _____ > > View message @ http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Relay-noise-tp2269079p4143590.html > To unsubscribe from Re: K3: Relay noise?, click > < (link removed) > 6b25lLm5ldHw0MTQzNDAzfDM0MTY1ODI0MA==> here. > > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Relay-noise-tp2269079p4143797.html > Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Interestingly you can hear the tick even when in TEST mode. Fortunately it's
hard to hear above the sidetone. I ordered the new DSP board so while I've got the covers off I'll dig around for the noise again. I need something better than tubing in the ear. Steve N4LQ [hidden email] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Christensen" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 5:53 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RE: K3: Relay noise? >I recently ran into a similar issue when interfacing an Ameitron QSK-5, K3, > and SPE 1K amplifier. Regardless of power through the QSK-5, it produces > an > audible "tick" when keying. Yes, there are two relays inside the QSK-5 > unit, but neither is the cause. > > It turns out that the QSK-5's PIN diodes are being biased with moderately > high voltage. The ticking sound follows the application of diode bias. I > could swear it was the input signaling relay when I tried to localize the > sound. Only, the PCB is functioning as an acoustical sound board (akin to > a > piano or violin), amplifying the "tick" produced by the biasing of the PIN > diodes. I still don't know the exact ticking mechanism. > > I've heard similar effects when using high-voltage transistors. Anyone > who > has worked extensively with these transistors or high-power PIN diodes > care > to add an explanation? > > Paul, W9AC > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "AC7JW" <[hidden email]> > To: <[hidden email]> > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:40 AM > Subject: [Elecraft] [K3] RE: K3: Relay noise? > > >> >> Thanks Steve. >> >> It's sure strange that I get the same click whether I run 1 W, or 100 W. >> I >> could understand some sort of residual magnetic effect (for lack of a >> better >> term) causing some mechanical movement to create the noise if it was only >> present while running high power, in which case high currents are >> present, >> and thus the potential for a powerful magnetic field. But at 1 watt- >> there >> is something else going on. In any case, I don't think it's a problem- >> just >> an annoyance. >> >> Jason >> >> >> >> From: Steve Ellington [via Elecraft] >> [mailto:[hidden email]] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 8:57 PM >> To: AC7JW >> Subject: Re: K3: Relay noise? >> >> >> >> I used some plastic tubing stuck in one ear trying to track it down. I >> narrowed it down to one relay but it's been at least 6 months ago and I >> can't recall which one made the noise. I had suggestions to check for >> loose >> ferrite chokes along the high current DC line but that wasn't the source. >> If >> >> I happen to remember which relay it was, I'll post it here. 73 >> Steve >> N4LQ >> [hidden email] >> <http://n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4143590&i=0> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "AC7JW" <[hidden email] >> <http://n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4143590&i=1> > >> To: <[hidden email] >> <http://n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4143590&i=2> > >> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Relay noise? >> >> >>> >>> I've followed this thread concerning a QSK clicking noise through all >>> comments, as well as other similar threads on the list, but it doesn't >>> appear as if anyone ever came to a firm conclusion as to origin of this >>> clicking noise. As others have stated, I can hear a very faint >>> mechanical >>> clicking that follows my code when using QSK. It sounds like it's coming >>> from the KPA100 region, but I can't tell for sure. >>> Did anyone ever come to a conclusion, or receive any information from >>> Elecraft? >>> >>> Thanks- >>> Jason AC7JW >>> >>> >>> Steve Ellington wrote: >>>> >>>> Is there a mechanical relay that follows keying? I've had my K3 for >>>> nearly >>>> a >>>> year and didn't notice any relay noise until lately. I know the antenna >>>> TR >>>> is done by pin diodes but I can now hear the faint click of a small >>>> relay >> >>>> that wasn't there before. I'm using ver. 2.8 >>>> Steve Ellington >>>> [hidden email] >> <http://n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4143590&i=3> >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>> Elecraft mailing list >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> <http://n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4143590&i=4> >>>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> View this message in context: >>> http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Relay-noise-tp2269079p4143403.html >>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> <http://n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4143590&i=5> >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.101/2555 - Release Date: >> 12/09/09 >> 14:41:00 >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> <http://n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4143590&i=6> >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> >> >> _____ >> >> View message @ http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Relay-noise-tp2269079p4143590.html >> To unsubscribe from Re: K3: Relay noise?, click >> < (link removed) >> 6b25lLm5ldHw0MTQzNDAzfDM0MTY1ODI0MA==> here. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Relay-noise-tp2269079p4143797.html >> Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.102/2556 - Release Date: 12/10/09 02:36:00 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by AC7JW
Remember that some multi-layer ceramic capacitors can make noise
("sing") due to piezoelectric effects. Kemet has a short article (as a PDF document) explaining the phenomenon at http://www.kemet.com/kemet/web/homepage/kfbk3.nsf/vaFeedbackFAQ/0EA15565AFC16E668525722500594468/$file/2006%2007%20ArrowAsiaTimes%20-%20MLC%20Noise.pdf and a longer, more technical paper here: http://www.kemet.com/kemet/web/homepage/kfbk3.nsf/vaFeedbackFAQ/118EBDDDFA5D532C852572BF0046B776/$file/2007%20CARTS%20-%20Reduced%20Microphonics%20and%20Sound%20Emissions.pdf Or search for "singing capacitors" on your favorite search engine. 73 -- Joe KB8AP On Dec 9, 2009, at 9:40 PM, AC7JW wrote: > > I could understand some sort of residual magnetic effect (for lack > of a better > term) causing some mechanical movement to create the noise if it was > only > present while running high power, in which case high currents are > present, > and thus the potential for a powerful magnetic field. But at 1 watt- > there > is something else going on. Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Talk about dredging up some history ... from 2009??!!
I've read through this thread and a few others and have not found upon any solid answers that was posed by the OP. My K3 (S/N: 9013, Assembled: 05/10/15) started having the very faint key clicks late yesterday afternoon. As noted in the thread they seem to come from the top, right-rear of the K3. I've not yet taken the cover off and put a "tube" to my ear to narrow down source. When I first turned on my K3 today I did not hear the clicks, but after I was in the mist of a QSO they became 'hearable'. Still very faint. Rig is basic with 100w feeding a dipole. No sub-receiver. No receive antenna in use. If anyone has any thoughts about the very soft 'relay click' when operating CW I'd appreciate the input. BTW - same response with my single-lever paddle or straight key. Same response if I'm feeding my dipole or a dummy load on Ant-2. Do NOT hear the 'relay click' when it TEST mode. ----- 73 - Nolan Kienitz, KI5IO -- Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]
73 - Nolan Kienitz, KI5IO
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http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KPA500-clicking-td7596512.html
Read carefully to avoid the "you don't know what you're talking about" comments. Wes N7WS On 12/15/2019 11:52 AM, Nolan Kienitz wrote: > Talk about dredging up some history ... from 2009??!! > > I've read through this thread and a few others and have not found upon any > solid answers that was posed by the OP. > > My K3 (S/N: 9013, Assembled: 05/10/15) started having the very faint key > clicks late yesterday afternoon. As noted in the thread they seem to come > from the top, right-rear of the K3. I've not yet taken the cover off and > put a "tube" to my ear to narrow down source. > > When I first turned on my K3 today I did not hear the clicks, but after I > was in the mist of a QSO they became 'hearable'. Still very faint. > > Rig is basic with 100w feeding a dipole. No sub-receiver. No receive antenna > in use. > > If anyone has any thoughts about the very soft 'relay click' when operating > CW I'd appreciate the input. > > BTW - same response with my single-lever paddle or straight key. Same > response if I'm feeding my dipole or a dummy load on Ant-2. Do NOT hear the > 'relay click' when it TEST mode. > > > > > ----- > 73 - Nolan Kienitz, KI5IO ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Wes,
Tnx very much. ----- 73 - Nolan Kienitz, KI5IO -- Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]
73 - Nolan Kienitz, KI5IO
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