K3: Right paddle key not working?

[The Smiths]

What kind of thing is that to tell someone??? It may take "months to get your K3 back"??? First off, have you even bothered to ask Elecraft how long their back log is???
 
Second, How about you just order a new board under warranty and do an advanced replacement returning the bad board when you exchange it out. You've obviously proven that you're capable of digging into the K3 on your own and getting things done.  Swapping a board is nothing.

Furthermore, telling someone to short out a choke that was put there for a reason is an even worse idea, whether it would work or not isn't the question. You're just asking for problems later when something else goes wrong. Doing that to TEST something is fine, but to repair it, no thank you.. I'm glad I didn't bring my rig to your shop...
 
 

> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 23:16:07 -0500
> CC: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Right paddle key not working?
>
> Just bypass it with a piece of wire. It probably won't matter.
> It might take months to get your K3 back!
>
> N4LQ
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Sarte" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Gene Langendorff" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "Elecraft" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 10:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Right paddle key not working?
>
>
> > Gene et all,
> >
> > I reheated the contacts on RFC4 to the point that I think I even slightly
> > warped the casing of the choke on one side. No good. No continuity at
> > all
> > from any of the trace points or direct contact with the chokes leads.
> >
> > Looks like RFC4 is dead and K3 #2730 will have to go back to Aptos for
> > repair.
> >
> > 73 de James K2QI
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 10:02 PM, James Sarte <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Gene Langendorff
> >>> <[hidden email]>wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I had the same symptom on my year old newly completed K3 kit a few
> >>>> months
> >>>> ago (S/N 3172). With Gary's guidance found the trouble to be one of
> >>>> the
> >>>> surface mount chokes (RFC3 or RFC4) between the paddles jack (J12) and
> >>>> the
> >>>> board needed resoldering. Check for continuity with your ohmmeter and
> >>>> you
> >>>> will probably find one of them not connected. Carefully resolder each
> >>>> end
> >>>> while applying downward pressure, one end at a time, and it should
> >>>> work.
> >>>>
> >>>> Gene K6TTM
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> > --
> > 73 de James K2QI
> > President UNARC/4U1UN
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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[K2QI]

Hi there ??? (apologies, but I don't recall ever seeing your name or call in
emails)...

Not sure if Aptos would be willing to send a whole RF board out just for a
small choke.  I could ask them, but even then, that's a whole lot of work.
I'm not sure if it'd be worth it for me to go that route as I have very
little spare time.  I think I'd rather take my chances with replacing the
choke myself.  I've already done the IF OUTPUT BUFFER mod, and the VFO noise
mod, so some of the fear of working on the K3 is already gone.  Still -
dealing with little SMD components isn't my bag baby! hi hi.

Anyway, Dale already told me he'd send a replacement choke out.  I still
have an open RMA though to have my stiff encoders swapped out with the
newer, less-viscous versions, so I may just send it back to kill two birds
with one stone.

The jumper that I soldered to the board will not stay.  It was just a way
for me to fully verify that RFC4 was indeed faulty - which it is.  I will
probably leave it in until I get the new choke, or until I send the unit
back to California.  I just wanted to practice my code anyway by using the
CW decoder... I don't intend to TX yet as I've got a sloppy fist.

73 de James K2QI
On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 3:07 PM, The Smiths <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Second, How about you just order a new board under warranty and do an
> advanced replacement returning the bad board when you exchange it out.
> You've obviously proven that you're capable of digging into the K3 on your
> own and getting things done.  Swapping a board is nothing.
>
> Furthermore, telling someone to short out a choke that was put there for a
> reason is an even worse idea, whether it would work or not isn't the
> question. You're just asking for problems later when something else goes
> wrong. Doing that to TEST something is fine, but to repair it, no thank
> you.. I'm glad I didn't bring my rig to your shop...
>
>
> > From: [hidden email]
> > To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> > Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 23:16:07 -0500
> > CC: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
>

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[The Smiths]

I'm sure that if you weren't confident about your soldering the SMD parts they would send you another board to swap out, especially if you were under warranty. I don't think that they 'expect' anyone to solder smd parts on an under warranty piece of equipment.  That's the kind of service and support that we've all seen time after time with Elecraft.  Another one of the big reasons that I not only bought a K3, but repair them for others when they have problems too.  
I know that Dale at Elecraft is FAST and efficent at sending both boards and SMD or other parts to me when requested.  This was offered as a Kit radio (if ordered that way) and for that reason alone I would think there shouldn't be any issues with Elecraft swapping out whole boards for isolated problems.
 
Of course if time is an issue, and it doesn't seem to be in this case as we've seen you trouble shoot, then soldering to repair, and once again jumping the choke to "test" with. Than in that case a person should send their rig in for repair.  
 
I think that I was more concerned about the person announcing on the reflector that it could take "MONTHS" to get back.  Especially when they probably haven't done any research to find out what the current turn around time is at Aptos.  As you know, with the seasons the demand for repairs etc. tends to go up and down.  Still, I don't know of a case where the word "months" would be appropriate.  Perhaps a few weeks, even a Month and a half... but "months" tends to indicate MANY months time.
 
 
 
 
 


Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 15:21:09 -0500
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Right paddle key not working?
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
CC: [hidden email]


Hi there ??? (apologies, but I don't recall ever seeing your name or call in emails)...
 
Not sure if Aptos would be willing to send a whole RF board out just for a small choke.  I could ask them, but even then, that's a whole lot of work.  I'm not sure if it'd be worth it for me to go that route as I have very little spare time.  I think I'd rather take my chances with replacing the choke myself.  I've already done the IF OUTPUT BUFFER mod, and the VFO noise mod, so some of the fear of working on the K3 is already gone.  Still - dealing with little SMD components isn't my bag baby! hi hi.
 
Anyway, Dale already told me he'd send a replacement choke out.  I still have an open RMA though to have my stiff encoders swapped out with the newer, less-viscous versions, so I may just send it back to kill two birds with one stone.
 
The jumper that I soldered to the board will not stay.  It was just a way for me to fully verify that RFC4 was indeed faulty - which it is.  I will probably leave it in until I get the new choke, or until I send the unit back to California.  I just wanted to practice my code anyway by using the CW decoder... I don't intend to TX yet as I've got a sloppy fist.
 
73 de James K2QI

On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 3:07 PM, The Smiths <[hidden email]> wrote:


Second, How about you just order a new board under warranty and do an advanced replacement returning the bad board when you exchange it out. You've obviously proven that you're capable of digging into the K3 on your own and getting things done.  Swapping a board is nothing.

Furthermore, telling someone to short out a choke that was put there for a reason is an even worse idea, whether it would work or not isn't the question. You're just asking for problems later when something else goes wrong. Doing that to TEST something is fine, but to repair it, no thank you.. I'm glad I didn't bring my rig to your shop...
 
 
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 23:16:07 -0500
> CC: [hidden email]; [hidden email]

     
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[K2QI]

Well, time is always an issue for me.  This weekend I was lucky as I didn't
have to work.  I was able to troubleshoot the radio and figure out what the
problem was.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'd rather take my chances replacing the
choke myself then spend hours tearing the K3 apart, then putting it back
together again, hoping that nothing else would be wrong with it once I'm
done.

I did put my K3 together as a kit, so I do have experience working on it...
it's just not something I look forward to doing.  In the little time I do
have to play radio, I'd rather play than fix. :)

73 de James K2QI

On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 3:38 PM, The Smiths <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Of course if time is an issue, and it doesn't seem to be in this case as
> we've seen you trouble shoot, then soldering to repair, and once again
> jumping the choke to "test" with. Than in that case a person should send
> their rig in for repair.
>
>
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[AC7AC]

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

[Steve Ellington]

Who is "The Smiths"?
Sure are touchy little guys aren't they? Smart too!

N4LQ
Steve

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: The Smiths
  To: [hidden email] ; [hidden email] ; [hidden email]
  Cc: Elecraft Reflector ; [hidden email]
  Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 3:07 PM
  Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3: Right paddle key not working?


  What kind of thing is that to tell someone??? It may take "months to get your K3 back"??? First off, have you even bothered to ask Elecraft how long their back log is???
   
  Second, How about you just order a new board under warranty and do an advanced replacement returning the bad board when you exchange it out. You've obviously proven that you're capable of digging into the K3 on your own and getting things done.  Swapping a board is nothing.

  Furthermore, telling someone to short out a choke that was put there for a reason is an even worse idea, whether it would work or not isn't the question. You're just asking for problems later when something else goes wrong. Doing that to TEST something is fine, but to repair it, no thank you.. I'm glad I didn't bring my rig to your shop...
   
   
  > From: [hidden email]
  > To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
  > Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 23:16:07 -0500
  > CC: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
  > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Right paddle key not working?
  >
  > Just bypass it with a piece of wire. It probably won't matter.
  > It might take months to get your K3 back!
  >
  > N4LQ
  > Steve
  >
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: "James Sarte" <[hidden email]>
  > To: "Gene Langendorff" <[hidden email]>
  > Cc: "Elecraft" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
  > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 10:56 PM
  > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Right paddle key not working?
  >
  >
  > > Gene et all,
  > >
  > > I reheated the contacts on RFC4 to the point that I think I even slightly
  > > warped the casing of the choke on one side. No good. No continuity at
  > > all
  > > from any of the trace points or direct contact with the chokes leads.
  > >
  > > Looks like RFC4 is dead and K3 #2730 will have to go back to Aptos for
  > > repair.
  > >
  > > 73 de James K2QI
  > >
  > > On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 10:02 PM, James Sarte <[hidden email]> wrote:
  > >
  > >>
  > >>
  > >>> On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Gene Langendorff
  > >>> <[hidden email]>wrote:
  > >>>
  > >>>> I had the same symptom on my year old newly completed K3 kit a few
  > >>>> months
  > >>>> ago (S/N 3172). With Gary's guidance found the trouble to be one of
  > >>>> the
  > >>>> surface mount chokes (RFC3 or RFC4) between the paddles jack (J12) and
  > >>>> the
  > >>>> board needed resoldering. Check for continuity with your ohmmeter and
  > >>>> you
  > >>>> will probably find one of them not connected. Carefully resolder each
  > >>>> end
  > >>>> while applying downward pressure, one end at a time, and it should
  > >>>> work.
  > >>>>
  > >>>> Gene K6TTM
  > >>>>
  > >>>>
  > >>>>
  > >>>
  > >
  > >
  > > --
  > > 73 de James K2QI
  > > President UNARC/4U1UN
  > > ______________________________________________________________
  > > Elecraft mailing list
  > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
  > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
  > > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
  > >
  > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
  > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
  >
  > ______________________________________________________________
  > Elecraft mailing list
  > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
  > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
  > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
  >
  > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
  > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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[K2QI]

Hi Ron,

Yes, replacement of the whole RF board would be very time and labor
intensive; certainly something that I'd like to avoid at all possible
costs.  I would rather send the K3 back to Aptos, and use my Icom in the
interim, then take the K3 apart to that level.

Just last night, I removed the side panel with handle, the rear panel and
everything attached to it.  I also removed the KIO3 and transverter board so
I could see what was on the other side of the RF board under the choke.
Putting it back together, I had to spend some time looking at the manual -
not because I couldn't remember how it was assembled, but because I
couldn't recall the different screw sizes and types and which holes they
thread in to.  I can only imagine how much longer it would take me if I had
to swap the whole RF board out!

Anyway, I've asked Dale to send me two of the RFC4 chokes in case I damage
one while performing the swap.  If I can't get it right, then I'll send the
K3 back to Aptos.

73 de James K2QI


On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You handled it just like I would, James, and I've repaired communications
> equipment, LF through microwave, professionally as well as built countless
> kits and scratch-built Ham rigs, many of my own design.
>
> I don't know if the fellow behind "The Smiths" built his K3 from a kit, but
> you and I both know that replacing the RF board is a big job involving
> completely disassembling the K3 back to a "kit" except for the front panel
> assembly. I've done it. Time is required, just as with the original
> assembly. Rushing, while assuming one remembers exactly what to do, will
> certainly lead to time-consuming mistakes.
>
> RF chokes on leads leading outside the rig are for RF suppression - to keep
> RF in or, in this case, certainly to keep RF that might trigger the circuit
> out.
>
> You'd know instantly if there was a problem.  Your rig would key when you
> operated something else, or stick in transmit if it's own RF trigger the
> key
> line.
>
> In your situation I'd replace the choke too, but if it were too difficult
> to
> get to, I'd add a similar value choke to points I could reach physically as
> close to the existing choke as possible.
>
> 73,
>
> Ron AC7AC
>
>
>
>

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[Steve Ellington]

James;
Congratulations. You did everything right. Consulted with users, located
defective part, bypassed the choke with wire as suggested and order
replacement. That's exactly what I would have done.
A job well done! 73
N4LQ
Steve

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Sarte" <[hidden email]>
To: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Right paddle key not working?

> Hi Ron,
>
> Yes, replacement of the whole RF board would be very time and labor
> intensive; certainly something that I'd like to avoid at all possible
> costs.  I would rather send the K3 back to Aptos, and use my Icom in the
> interim, then take the K3 apart to that level.
>
> Just last night, I removed the side panel with handle, the rear panel and
> everything attached to it.  I also removed the KIO3 and transverter board
> so
> I could see what was on the other side of the RF board under the choke.
> Putting it back together, I had to spend some time looking at the manual -
> not because I couldn't remember how it was assembled, but because I
> couldn't recall the different screw sizes and types and which holes they
> thread in to.  I can only imagine how much longer it would take me if I
> had
> to swap the whole RF board out!
>
> Anyway, I've asked Dale to send me two of the RFC4 chokes in case I damage
> one while performing the swap.  If I can't get it right, then I'll send
> the
> K3 back to Aptos.
>
> 73 de James K2QI
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> You handled it just like I would, James, and I've repaired communications
>> equipment, LF through microwave, professionally as well as built
>> countless
>> kits and scratch-built Ham rigs, many of my own design.
>>
>> I don't know if the fellow behind "The Smiths" built his K3 from a kit,
>> but
>> you and I both know that replacing the RF board is a big job involving
>> completely disassembling the K3 back to a "kit" except for the front
>> panel
>> assembly. I've done it. Time is required, just as with the original
>> assembly. Rushing, while assuming one remembers exactly what to do, will
>> certainly lead to time-consuming mistakes.
>>
>> RF chokes on leads leading outside the rig are for RF suppression - to
>> keep
>> RF in or, in this case, certainly to keep RF that might trigger the
>> circuit
>> out.
>>
>> You'd know instantly if there was a problem.  Your rig would key when you
>> operated something else, or stick in transmit if it's own RF trigger the
>> key
>> line.
>>
>> In your situation I'd replace the choke too, but if it were too difficult
>> to
>> get to, I'd add a similar value choke to points I could reach physically
>> as
>> close to the existing choke as possible.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Ron AC7AC
>>
>>
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 

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[K2QI]

Thank you Steve,

I couldn't have done it without support from the reflector and the great
crew at Elecraft.

Again, one of the many reasons why Elecraft and its user community is head
and shoulders above the rest.

73,
James K2QI
On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 5:00 PM, Steve Ellington <[hidden email]>wrote:

> James;
> Congratulations. You did everything right. Consulted with users, located
> defective part, bypassed the choke with wire as suggested and order
> replacement. That's exactly what I would have done.
> A job well done! 73
> N4LQ
> Steve
>
>
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[The Smiths]

Hey guys, don't get me wrong. I never meant to say that James didn't do a wonderful job at trouble shooting than testing by shorting out the choke.  That wasn't my point at all.  I wasn't even meaning to comment on his work at all.  Other than to say that he appears to be a very competent person for sure.  It seemed that he knew exactly where he was going, and seemed to get it done right.
 
What I was responding to was the other person that was trying to tell james that he shouldn't send his rig in because it would take "MONTHS" to get back.   My point to that other person was it was wrong of him to make such a complaint unfounded, and that without knowing what the actual back log at Elecraft was. He really shouldn't be trying to 'scare' people like that.  
 
As for the board swap, I was just mentioning it as an option because I knew that James didn't want to be without his rig any longer than he needed to be. Plus I was confident that with a Kit rig like the K3 it wouldn't be any trouble for Elecraft to send another RF board because of a simple Choke that had been manufactured improperly.  Furthermore, as I just stated, I could clearly tell that James is perfectly capable of swapping a board after he's done all this work. To me as someone that repairs gear I would NEVER leave a choke shorted out just because it worked that way.. You never know what other problems your going to create for yourself later on.
Of course if James wants to replace the choke by itself that would be ideal.  That would save him a lot of time disassembling the rig, and could fix his problem post haste.
 
I'm not sure where my message was read wrong.. But to answer your question as to whether or not I bought my rig as a kit, Yes, of course, as someone that repairs these rigs I would be a hypocrite if I hadn't built my own.. well, that or a "very busy" guy... LOL 73 both...
 
 
 
 

 

> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 13:35:04 -0800
> CC: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Right paddle key not working?
>
> You handled it just like I would, James, and I've repaired communications
> equipment, LF through microwave, professionally as well as built countless
> kits and scratch-built Ham rigs, many of my own design.
>
> I don't know if the fellow behind "The Smiths" built his K3 from a kit, but
> you and I both know that replacing the RF board is a big job involving
> completely disassembling the K3 back to a "kit" except for the front panel
> assembly. I've done it. Time is required, just as with the original
> assembly. Rushing, while assuming one remembers exactly what to do, will
> certainly lead to time-consuming mistakes.
>
> RF chokes on leads leading outside the rig are for RF suppression - to keep
> RF in or, in this case, certainly to keep RF that might trigger the circuit
> out.
>
> You'd know instantly if there was a problem. Your rig would key when you
> operated something else, or stick in transmit if it's own RF trigger the key
> line.
>
> In your situation I'd replace the choke too, but if it were too difficult to
> get to, I'd add a similar value choke to points I could reach physically as
> close to the existing choke as possible.
>
> 73,
>
> Ron AC7AC
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James Sarte
> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 12:54 PM
> To: The Smiths
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Right paddle key not working?
>
> Well, time is always an issue for me. This weekend I was lucky as I didn't
> have to work. I was able to troubleshoot the radio and figure out what the
> problem was.
>
> I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'd rather take my chances replacing the
> choke myself then spend hours tearing the K3 apart, then putting it back
> together again, hoping that nothing else would be wrong with it once I'm
> done.
>
> I did put my K3 together as a kit, so I do have experience working on it...
> it's just not something I look forward to doing. In the little time I do
> have to play radio, I'd rather play than fix. :)
>
> 73 de James K2QI
>
> On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 3:38 PM, The Smiths <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >
> > Of course if time is an issue, and it doesn't seem to be in this case as
> > we've seen you trouble shoot, then soldering to repair, and once again
> > jumping the choke to "test" with. Than in that case a person should send
> > their rig in for repair.
> >
> >
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[K2QI]

Hello group,

Just wanted to report back on this issue.  Dale sent me some replacement
chokes which arrived today.  Despite my lack of confidence (and shaky
hands), I was able to remove the old choke and wire jumper.  I then soldered
on the replacement RFC4 choke.  The solder points don't look too pretty, but
they're not cold and continuity tests now pass FB.  Plugged everything back
together, and my paddle now works as it was supposed too.

Thank you everyone for your help.

73,
James K2QI

On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 6:53 PM, James Sarte <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What am I doing wrong? I hooked up an old iambic paddle to the K3 a few
> moments ago.  Left paddle works fine; gives me a string of dots.  Right
> paddle doesn't do anything.  I checked continuity on tip, ring, and ground
> and everything tests fine.  Is there something I'm not doing right with the
> K3??
>
> --
> 73 de James K2QI
> President UNARC/4U1UN
>
>

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