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K3 SSB Possible Filter Set XFIL option

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Tony Fegan VE3QF

K3 SSB Possible Filter Set XFIL option

K3 SSB Possible Filter Set XFIL option

Some of us have physical limitations that hinder our ability to get the
most out of the K3.

1. Manual dexterity and touch feeling are required to change the filter
settings especially on SSB. This is difficult to do during a QSO as it
is so easy to nudge the VFO knob. Positive detent encoders and
larger/longer knobs (RIT size, parallel, not tapered) would have helped.
It would have been easy to feel detent clicks but without them, you
cannot tell when you have turned the knob far enough to make a change
(have to look at display). Maybe use audio beeps when enabled?

The “XFIL” button is not useful on SSB. Could this button be used to
recall a number of user settable DSP bandwidths and offsets? Tap to
recall, 3sec hold to store and 8sec hold to clear or set/assign/name
via config.

I myself would program something like the following:
2.7KHz – for good band conditions
2.1KHz – for general DX/Contesting
1.7KHz – for normal voice in QRM/noise
1.7KHz – for bass voice in QRM/noise

Knob twiddling is OK for filter set-up when time is of no consequence
but not during the heat of the battle. Button pushing can be
accomplished quickly and no need to look at the display. Set as many or
as few bandwidths as required. It could be a benefit on CW/Data as well
but then would require a different set-up by mode.

I believe this use of the XFIL button would be of benefit to all, not
just those of us that find knob twiddling awkward.

Then there is the big question. Are we running out of firmware memory
yet, or is there plenty left? We need to keep Wayne busy or he might get
bored and find something else to do!!!

73
Tony Fegan VE3QF

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Joe Subich, W4TV-3

RE: K3 SSB Possible Filter Set XFIL option

> The “XFIL” button is not useful on SSB.

The XFIL button is usable on SSB if you have installed multiple
SSB bandwidth "roofing" filters (e.g. 2.8, 2.4 and 1.8 KHz).

> Could this button be used to recall a number of user settable DSP
> bandwidths and offsets? Tap to recall, 3sec hold to store and 8sec
> hold to clear or set/assign/name via config.

This function is already available via the shift/Lo encoder - Norm,
Norm 1 and Norm 2. Separate values of Norm 1 and Norm 2 can be
saved for each mode. It would be handy to be able to customize the
"Norm 0" values as well and perhaps be able to define PF1/PF2 to
recall Norm1/Norm2 without going through the hold/twist routine.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tony
> Fegan VE3QF
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 3:45 PM
> To: K3 Support; [Elecraft]
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 SSB Possible Filter Set XFIL option
>
>
> K3 SSB Possible Filter Set XFIL option
>
> Some of us have physical limitations that hinder our
> ability to get the
> most out of the K3.
>
> 1. Manual dexterity and touch feeling are required to
> change the filter
> settings especially on SSB. This is difficult to do during a
> QSO as it
> is so easy to nudge the VFO knob. Positive detent encoders and
> larger/longer knobs (RIT size, parallel, not tapered) would
> have helped.
> It would have been easy to feel detent clicks but
> without them, you
> cannot tell when you have turned the knob far enough to make a change
> (have to look at display). Maybe use audio beeps when enabled?
>
> The “XFIL” button is not useful on SSB. Could this
> button be used to
> recall a number of user settable DSP bandwidths and offsets? Tap to
> recall, 3sec hold to store and 8sec hold to clear or set/assign/name
> via config.
>
> I myself would program something like the following:
> 2.7KHz – for good band conditions
> 2.1KHz – for general DX/Contesting
> 1.7KHz – for normal voice in QRM/noise
> 1.7KHz – for bass voice in QRM/noise
>
> Knob twiddling is OK for filter set-up when time is of
> no consequence
> but not during the heat of the battle. Button pushing can be
> accomplished quickly and no need to look at the display. Set
> as many or
> as few bandwidths as required. It could be a benefit on
> CW/Data as well
> but then would require a different set-up by mode.
>
> I believe this use of the XFIL button would be of
> benefit to all, not
> just those of us that find knob twiddling awkward.
>
> Then there is the big question. Are we running out of
> firmware memory
> yet, or is there plenty left? We need to keep Wayne busy or
> he might get
> bored and find something else to do!!!
>
> 73
> Tony Fegan VE3QF
>

_______________________________________________
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Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

Tony Fegan VE3QF

Re: K3 SSB Possible Filter Set XFIL option

Hi Lyle, Joe,

Yes I have used Norm 1 and Norm 2. It works fairly well but it's not
easy for me as sometimes I hold on too long and usually end up with both
set the same. Others have reported the same problem. A longer hold for
save might help here.
I have 13KHz (not used on SSB) , 2.7KHz, 2.1KHz, 1.8KHz and 400Hz (not
for SSB) filters installed. The centre frequency is not positioned for
clearest audio on the narrower filters. This means juggling with shift
and high cut which is not easy for me. This is what I want to get away from.
I assume that Norm 0 is the same setting as using XFIL button for
2.7/2.8KHz and is not a problem.
My best way of getting 3 preset filters is to use Norm 0, Norm 1 and
Norm 2. For SSB dx working I can put a narrower Norm 1 and Norm 2 into
I/II and switch with one push of the I/II knob. I operate the Norm 1/2
button with the flat of my thumb and lift my arm up and down to rotate.
Not easy but it usually works. I would like to try bigger and longer
knobs but am not sure of the shaft size. 1, 2 or 3 taps on a button
(XFIL) would be much easier and quicker.
The other (and maybe easier for me) alternative is software macros
which I have not looked into yet. I don't think any control program at
the moment will directly set the DSP filters.

Hope this makes sense.

73
Tony VE3QF

Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>> The “XFIL” button is not useful on SSB.
>
> The XFIL button is usable on SSB if you have installed multiple
> SSB bandwidth "roofing" filters (e.g. 2.8, 2.4 and 1.8 KHz).
>
>> Could this button be used to recall a number of user settable DSP
>> bandwidths and offsets? Tap to recall, 3sec hold to store and 8sec
>> hold to clear or set/assign/name via config.
>
> This function is already available via the shift/Lo encoder - Norm,
> Norm 1 and Norm 2. Separate values of Norm 1 and Norm 2 can be
> saved for each mode. It would be handy to be able to customize the
> "Norm 0" values as well and perhaps be able to define PF1/PF2 to
> recall Norm1/Norm2 without going through the hold/twist routine.
>
>
>
>

Brett Howard

Re: K3 SSB Possible Filter Set XFIL option

In reply to this post by Tony Fegan VE3QF

So..... You can't tell when you have turned the knob far enough to
make a change? If you can't tell audibly then why do you need to turn
the knob? The whole point of the knob is to filter out noise or other
stations other than the one which you are working. If you can't
audibly tell when you've made enough of an adjustment there should be
no need to make an adjustment.

On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 12:45 PM, Tony Fegan VE3QF <[hidden email]> wrote:

> K3 SSB Possible Filter Set XFIL option
>
> Some of us have physical limitations that hinder our ability to get
> the most out of the K3.
>
> 1. Manual dexterity and touch feeling are required to change the filter
> settings especially on SSB. This is difficult to do during a QSO as it is so
> easy to nudge the VFO knob. Positive detent encoders and larger/longer knobs
> (RIT size, parallel, not tapered) would have helped.
> It would have been easy to feel detent clicks but without them, you
> cannot tell when you have turned the knob far enough to make a change (have
> to look at display). Maybe use audio beeps when enabled?
>
> The "XFIL" button is not useful on SSB. Could this button be used to
> recall a number of user settable DSP bandwidths and offsets? Tap to recall,
> 3sec hold to store and 8sec hold to clear or set/assign/name via config.
>
> I myself would program something like the following:
> 2.7KHz – for good band conditions
> 2.1KHz – for general DX/Contesting
> 1.7KHz – for normal voice in QRM/noise
> 1.7KHz – for bass voice in QRM/noise
>
> Knob twiddling is OK for filter set-up when time is of no consequence
> but not during the heat of the battle. Button pushing can be accomplished
> quickly and no need to look at the display. Set as many or as few bandwidths
> as required. It could be a benefit on CW/Data as well but then would require
> a different set-up by mode.
>
> I believe this use of the XFIL button would be of benefit to all, not
> just those of us that find knob twiddling awkward.
>
> Then there is the big question. Are we running out of firmware memory
> yet, or is there plenty left? We need to keep Wayne busy or he might get
> bored and find something else to do!!!
>
> 73
> Tony Fegan VE3QF
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-3

RE: K3 SSB Possible Filter Set XFIL option

In reply to this post by Tony Fegan VE3QF

> The other (and maybe easier for me) alternative is
> software macros which I have not looked into yet. I don't
> think any control program at the moment will directly set
> the DSP filters.

Unfortunately, the command set does not (yet) implement the
Kenwood SL/SH (low cut and high cut) commands or provide a
way to set the filter center frequency (e.g., FCxxxx;) ... if
there is a way, I can't find it. SL/SH or FW/FC are needed to
properly adjust SSB filtering. FW alone works reasonably well
for CW since it uses the existing center frequency but in SSB
the "center frequency" needs decrease with the bandwidth - most
of the benefit from narrow SSB filtering is in getting rig of
extra high frequency noise.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tony
> Fegan VE3QF
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 11:17 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: '[Elecraft]'
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 SSB Possible Filter Set XFIL option
>
>
> Hi Lyle, Joe,
>
> Yes I have used Norm 1 and Norm 2. It works fairly well
> but it's not
> easy for me as sometimes I hold on too long and usually end
> up with both
> set the same. Others have reported the same problem. A longer
> hold for
> save might help here.
> I have 13KHz (not used on SSB) , 2.7KHz, 2.1KHz, 1.8KHz
> and 400Hz (not
> for SSB) filters installed. The centre frequency is not
> positioned for
> clearest audio on the narrower filters. This means juggling
> with shift
> and high cut which is not easy for me. This is what I want to
> get away from.
> I assume that Norm 0 is the same setting as using XFIL
> button for
> 2.7/2.8KHz and is not a problem.
> My best way of getting 3 preset filters is to use Norm
> 0, Norm 1 and
> Norm 2. For SSB dx working I can put a narrower Norm 1 and
> Norm 2 into
> I/II and switch with one push of the I/II knob. I operate the
> Norm 1/2
> button with the flat of my thumb and lift my arm up and down
> to rotate.
> Not easy but it usually works. I would like to try bigger and longer
> knobs but am not sure of the shaft size. 1, 2 or 3 taps on a button
> (XFIL) would be much easier and quicker.
> The other (and maybe easier for me) alternative is
> software macros
> which I have not looked into yet. I don't think any control
> program at
> the moment will directly set the DSP filters.
>
> Hope this makes sense.
>
> 73
> Tony VE3QF
>
> Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> >> The “XFIL” button is not useful on SSB.
> >
> > The XFIL button is usable on SSB if you have installed multiple SSB
> > bandwidth "roofing" filters (e.g. 2.8, 2.4 and 1.8 KHz).
> >
> >> Could this button be used to recall a number of user settable DSP
> >> bandwidths and offsets? Tap to recall, 3sec hold to store
> and 8sec
> >> hold to clear or set/assign/name via config.
> >
> > This function is already available via the shift/Lo encoder - Norm,
> > Norm 1 and Norm 2. Separate values of Norm 1 and Norm 2 can be
> > saved for each mode. It would be handy to be able to customize the
> > "Norm 0" values as well and perhaps be able to define PF1/PF2 to
> > recall Norm1/Norm2 without going through the hold/twist routine.
> >

Joe Subich, W4TV-3

RE: K3 SSB Possible Filter Set XFIL option

Tony,

> Unfortunately, the command set does not (yet) implement the
> Kenwood SL/SH (low cut and high cut) commands or provide a
> way to set the filter center frequency (e.g., FCxxxx;) ... if
> there is a way, I can't find it.

I have been informed that a way to set the filter center frequency
is on the way. It is not currently documented on the Programmer's
Guide or operational in either the current public release or public
beta firmware. However, it looks like it will soon be possible to
use macros to save/recall filter configurations in software like
HRD or DXLab Suite (CI-V Commander).

73,

... Joe, W4TV

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Joe
> Subich, W4TV
> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:28 AM
> To: 'Tony Fegan VE3QF'
> Cc: '[Elecraft]'
> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 SSB Possible Filter Set XFIL option
>
>
>
> > The other (and maybe easier for me) alternative is
> > software macros which I have not looked into yet. I don't
> > think any control program at the moment will directly set
> > the DSP filters.
>
> Unfortunately, the command set does not (yet) implement the
> Kenwood SL/SH (low cut and high cut) commands or provide a
> way to set the filter center frequency (e.g., FCxxxx;) ... if
> there is a way, I can't find it. SL/SH or FW/FC are needed to
> properly adjust SSB filtering. FW alone works reasonably well
> for CW since it uses the existing center frequency but in SSB
> the "center frequency" needs decrease with the bandwidth - most
> of the benefit from narrow SSB filtering is in getting rig of
> extra high frequency noise.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [hidden email]
> > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tony Fegan
> > VE3QF
> > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 11:17 PM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Cc: '[Elecraft]'
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 SSB Possible Filter Set XFIL option
> >
> >
> > Hi Lyle, Joe,
> >
> > Yes I have used Norm 1 and Norm 2. It works fairly well
> > but it's not
> > easy for me as sometimes I hold on too long and usually end
> > up with both
> > set the same. Others have reported the same problem. A longer
> > hold for
> > save might help here.
> > I have 13KHz (not used on SSB) , 2.7KHz, 2.1KHz, 1.8KHz
> > and 400Hz (not
> > for SSB) filters installed. The centre frequency is not
> > positioned for
> > clearest audio on the narrower filters. This means juggling
> > with shift
> > and high cut which is not easy for me. This is what I want to
> > get away from.
> > I assume that Norm 0 is the same setting as using XFIL
> > button for
> > 2.7/2.8KHz and is not a problem.
> > My best way of getting 3 preset filters is to use Norm
> > 0, Norm 1 and
> > Norm 2. For SSB dx working I can put a narrower Norm 1 and
> > Norm 2 into
> > I/II and switch with one push of the I/II knob. I operate the
> > Norm 1/2
> > button with the flat of my thumb and lift my arm up and down
> > to rotate.
> > Not easy but it usually works. I would like to try bigger
> and longer
> > knobs but am not sure of the shaft size. 1, 2 or 3 taps on a button
> > (XFIL) would be much easier and quicker.
> > The other (and maybe easier for me) alternative is
> > software macros
> > which I have not looked into yet. I don't think any control
> > program at
> > the moment will directly set the DSP filters.
> >
> > Hope this makes sense.
> >
> > 73
> > Tony VE3QF
> >
> > Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> > >> The “XFIL” button is not useful on SSB.
> > >
> > > The XFIL button is usable on SSB if you have installed
> multiple SSB
> > > bandwidth "roofing" filters (e.g. 2.8, 2.4 and 1.8 KHz).
> > >
> > >> Could this button be used to recall a number of user settable DSP
> > >> bandwidths and offsets? Tap to recall, 3sec hold to store
> > and 8sec
> > >> hold to clear or set/assign/name via config.
> > >
> > > This function is already available via the shift/Lo
> encoder - Norm,
> > > Norm 1 and Norm 2. Separate values of Norm 1 and Norm 2 can be
> > > saved for each mode. It would be handy to be able to
> customize the
> > > "Norm 0" values as well and perhaps be able to define PF1/PF2 to
> > > recall Norm1/Norm2 without going through the hold/twist routine.
> > >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com