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K3 SSB average power output

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mark roz

K3 SSB average power output

With SSB mic level adjusted to the max level (ALC to
the max)the average power measured on external meter
is only 4 Watts with distorted audio (power output set
at 110W). If I use external compressor the average
power is still only 4 Watts. This is done with CMP
gain at zero. This is not normal. Contest or ESSB guys
will not like that.
With K3 compression to the max average power is about
8 Watts.

K3 is a great radio but not in the transmit SSB mode.
If Mic gain is adjusted properly so there is no
distortion than the average power is even lower.

I'm sure that this could be improved in firmware.
If not than K3 would not be that good in the contest
and Dx -ing on SSB
Anybody has the same experience?
I remember that Toby from Bavarian DX Club and some
other guy was talking about SSB audio.

I'm not complaining but I would like to have SSB
signal comparable to radios like TS850, Ft1000D and so
on.
I hope that Elecraft will put this on their agenda.

Beside that, K3 is superb TRX-the best.

Mark

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Dave Martin-2

Re: K3 SSB average power output

Wow. Then with my K3/10 (still on order) I'll have an average power
in the milliwatts. Too bad I didn't order the KPA3 before the price
went up.

Does this situation affect the K3's output capability on PSK31?

Dave W5DHM

On Feb 4, 2008 4:23 PM, mark roz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> With SSB mic level adjusted to the max level (ALC to
> the max)the average power measured on external meter
> is only 4 Watts with distorted audio (power output set
> at 110W). If I use external compressor the average
> power is still only 4 Watts. This is done with CMP
> gain at zero. This is not normal. Contest or ESSB guys
> will not like that.
> With K3 compression to the max average power is about
> 8 Watts....
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W6NEK

Re: K3 SSB average power output

In reply to this post by mark roz

Hello Mark,
>From what you describe, something is very wrong with either your K3 or your
external watt meter setup. How much power are you reading with your
external watt meter when the K3 is set to 100 Watts in CW Mode? Is your
watt meter a peak reading meter (I assume not)?

I am using an external Telepost LP-100 Digital Vector Watt Meter. With my
K3 in SSB mode (with power set to 100 watts and zero compression) I'm
reading 106 watts peak and 40 watts average power into a 50 ohm dummy load.
There is no distortion heard in either the K3 Monitor or in my nearby
IC-7800 receiver. If you are only getting 4 watts output average then
something is very wrong. Perhaps you can describe your setup for us. I
assume you completed all the calibration procedures, transmitter gain
calibration, etc.?

What you describe is certainly not normal from what I am measuring with my
K3 and watt meter set-up.

Best 73,
Frank - W6NEK
K3 #312

----- Original Message -----
From: "mark roz" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 1:23 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 SSB average power output

> With SSB mic level adjusted to the max level (ALC to
> the max)the average power measured on external meter
> is only 4 Watts with distorted audio (power output set
> at 110W). If I use external compressor the average
> power is still only 4 Watts. This is done with CMP
> gain at zero. This is not normal. Contest or ESSB guys
> will not like that.
> With K3 compression to the max average power is about
> 8 Watts.
>
> K3 is a great radio but not in the transmit SSB mode.
> If Mic gain is adjusted properly so there is no
> distortion than the average power is even lower.
>
> I'm sure that this could be improved in firmware.
> If not than K3 would not be that good in the contest
> and Dx -ing on SSB
> Anybody has the same experience?
> I remember that Toby from Bavarian DX Club and some
> other guy was talking about SSB audio.
>
> I'm not complaining but I would like to have SSB
> signal comparable to radios like TS850, Ft1000D and so
> on.
> I hope that Elecraft will put this on their agenda.
>
> Beside that, K3 is superb TRX-the best.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
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> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

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Tom-5

Re: K3 SSB average power output

In reply to this post by mark roz

Oh, but this IS normal. You need a peak reading wattmeter. If anyone
ever uses an average reading power meter to try to figure out the "talk"
power of a radio, I guarantee you that they are putting out crude. Even
with the K3 compressor set up more than it should, your peak to average
ratio is very high. I have the Autek (sp?) peak reading meter in line,
and it shows exactly what is going on. On SSB, I get 100 + watts, as I
talk. On CW, I get what I dialed into the K3, and on PSK, I get around
10, based upon the audio gain settings.

PLEASE! Never ever use an average reading wattmeter for anything
other than key down observations. Invest in a peak reading meter. I like
the Autek because it has two meters, peak reading forward power, and
peak reading, auto adjusted SWR reading. One has to do nothing but look
at this meter to tell what is going on.

tom k8tb

mark roz wrote:

>With SSB mic level adjusted to the max level (ALC to
>the max)the average power measured on external meter
>is only 4 Watts with distorted audio (power output set
>at 110W). If I use external compressor the average
>power is still only 4 Watts. This is done with CMP
>gain at zero. This is not normal.
>

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dj7mgq

Re: K3 SSB average power output

In reply to this post by mark roz

Hallo Mark,

Are you sure that something else might not be wrong or configured
incorrectly? Are you sure that your measurement of the power levels is
correct?

There may be some interaction between the WMTR xxx and the TXG VCE
configurations, leading to low SSB output, but I really, really am not
sure about this. This evening, while experimenting with TXG VCE gain
values, the K3 appeared to loose its WMTR HP and/or TX Gain calibrations
in SSB a couple of times. I ended up with a TXG VCE of +1.0dB.

While Ben, DL6RAI, and I do feel that the speech processing is not quite
as effective as we would like, and that the average power level is a bit
on the low side, we have not seen anything like what you are reporting.
My K3 can and does produce a good quality SSB signal, which could be
improved (made more effective) for use in some special situations.

A clean "rag chew" modulation, will always show a lowish average power
because a moderate level of AF gain combined with low levels of
processing, will cause fairly little change to the natural dynamics of
speech. The K3, imho, is very good at this, i.e. clean, low distortion
modulation with an almost natural sounding dynamic range.

Natural sounding modulation is not always what you are looking for in a
contest situation. If I think in terms of an analog system, I'd really
like to really overdrive the K3 (gain and processing) and then carefully
back off to the point where the level of distortion becomes acceptable,
while maintaining a fairly high average power. The K3 (almost) does not
allow itself be overdriven, which most of time is a good thing.

This does not, of course, have anything to do with the peak power level,
which would be the same in the above scenarios.

I would like to point out two final things: We in Bavaria are still
learning about this radio, so we may be doing the K3 an injustice, and
because things like speech processing are done with software in the K3,
the firmware can improve these kinds of aspects.

vy 73 de toby

PS: We are the Bavarian Contest Club and not the Bavarian DX Club...

mark roz wrote:

Don Nesbitt

RE: K3 SSB average power output

In reply to this post by mark roz

Mark - Something is VERY wrong here! My K3/100 does rated pep on an LP-100
with no discernable distortion, excellent average power with moderate
compression and outstanding audio reports! Email [hidden email] and
be ready to re-assemble. This is NOT normal! 73 -- Don N4HH K3/100 #83

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of mark roz
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 4:23 PM
To: Elecraft
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 SSB average power output

With SSB mic level adjusted to the max level (ALC to
the max)the average power measured on external meter
is only 4 Watts with distorted audio (power output set
at 110W). If I use external compressor the average
power is still only 4 Watts. This is done with CMP
gain at zero. This is not normal. Contest or ESSB guys
will not like that.
With K3 compression to the max average power is about
8 Watts.

K3 is a great radio but not in the transmit SSB mode.
If Mic gain is adjusted properly so there is no
distortion than the average power is even lower.

I'm sure that this could be improved in firmware.
If not than K3 would not be that good in the contest
and Dx -ing on SSB
Anybody has the same experience?
I remember that Toby from Bavarian DX Club and some
other guy was talking about SSB audio.

I'm not complaining but I would like to have SSB
signal comparable to radios like TS850, Ft1000D and so
on.
I hope that Elecraft will put this on their agenda.

Beside that, K3 is superb TRX-the best.

Mark

____________________________________________________________________________
________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

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