K3 : SSB modulation
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Hi
We are the proud owners of 6 K3/100 used at the FY5KE contest station. These radios has been delivered around mid-2008 and their serial numbers are in the 012xx range. After using mostly these rigs for SSB contesting in FY5KE or in other places, we are still facing a lack of "dynamics", "punch", "penetration", "power", whatever you call it. In other words, when comparing this rig to our radios we previously used (TS-850), with the same microphone (Heil HC-4 element) and the same output RF power, the K3 is clearly way behind in term of "average power" we can read on the Bird wattmeter wired on its RF output. Even if observing the wattmeter needle is not a very scientific measurement (we admit it), various comparative reports on the air do confirm our feeling. We spent time on various available settings (mic gain, compressor level, etc), with no luck, excepted a very distorted and awful audio to roughly reach the same level, which is not acceptable. After a little Googling, it appears that other contesters suffers the same issue (e.g. www.bavarian-contest-club.de/projects/K3_english.pdf pages 6 and 10). Some questions : - Do other contesters (or not) here have noted the same problem ? - What settings did you modified (or not) to achieve a good result ? - Is there any possible HW or SW upgrade we aren't aware of, that could help us ? We must confess we are currently preparing our next contest season, and we are seriously considering reselling these radios and bring others Japanese models if we can't solve this problem, despite we really appreciate them in many other aspects (size, weight, etc.). 73 For the FY5KE/Win-Test team, Larry - F6FVY ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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What is your compression level set at? I have mine set at 20 and I have 100% more "talk power" as indicated by an average indicating analog power/SWR meter than my two ICOM transceivers. I am also finding that with the K3 I am exceptionally successful in pileups in spite of my 100W and a dipole.
AB2TC - Knut
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In reply to this post by Laurent HAAS - F6FVY
BTW, the recommended Heil element for the K3 is the "IC" electret element. This is what I am using with my proset. I am very surprised about the lack of punch you experience with the K3 transmitter.
AB2TC - Knut
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In reply to this post by ab2tc
I have also noticed this with the K3. You must run compression to get much
of an average power output. I notice at these levels you seem to be overdriving it according to the alc meter but it still sounds good on another local receiver and reports confirm this. With no compression and a higher output electret mike, everyone says I need more audio especially if the band is noisy. Jim K4JAF ----- Original Message ----- From: "ab2tc" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 : SSB modulation > > What is your compression level set at? I have mine set at 20 and I have > 100% > more "talk power" as indicated by an average indicating analog power/SWR > meter than my two ICOM transceivers. I am also finding that with the K3 I > am > exceptionally successful in pileups in spite of my 100W and a dipole. > > AB2TC - Knut > > > Laurent HAAS - F6FVY wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> We are the proud owners of 6 K3/100 used at the FY5KE contest station. >> These radios has been delivered around mid-2008 and their serial numbers >> are in the 012xx range. >> >> After using mostly these rigs for SSB contesting in FY5KE or in other >> places, we are still facing a lack of "dynamics", "punch", >> "penetration", "power", whatever you call it. In other words, when >> comparing this rig to our radios we previously used (TS-850), with the >> same microphone (Heil HC-4 element) and the same output RF power, the K3 >> is clearly way behind in term of "average power" we can read on the Bird >> wattmeter wired on its RF output. Even if observing the wattmeter needle >> is not a very scientific measurement (we admit it), various comparative >> reports on the air do confirm our feeling. >> >> We spent time on various available settings (mic gain, compressor level, >> etc), with no luck, excepted a very distorted and awful audio to roughly >> reach the same level, which is not acceptable. >> >> After a little Googling, it appears that other contesters suffers the >> same issue (e.g. www.bavarian-contest-club.de/projects/K3_english.pdf >> pages 6 and 10). >> >> Some questions : >> >> - Do other contesters (or not) here have noted the same problem ? >> - What settings did you modified (or not) to achieve a good result ? >> - Is there any possible HW or SW upgrade we aren't aware of, that could >> help us ? >> >> We must confess we are currently preparing our next contest season, and >> we are seriously considering reselling these radios and bring others >> Japanese models if we can't solve this problem, despite we really >> appreciate them in many other aspects (size, weight, etc.). >> >> 73 >> >> For the FY5KE/Win-Test team, >> >> Larry - F6FVY >> <snip> >> > > -- > View this message in context: > http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-SSB-modulation-tp5442219p5442642.html > Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by ab2tc
I use the Heil ICM which has the electret element but still have to use a
good bit of compression or the average power is very low. Otherwise local stations will comment my audio is low and need more mic gain. Jim K4JAF ----- Original Message ----- From: "ab2tc" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 : SSB modulation > > BTW, the recommended Heil element for the K3 is the "IC" electret element. > This is what I am using with my proset. I am very surprised about the lack > of punch you experience with the K3 transmitter. > > AB2TC - Knut > > > Laurent HAAS - F6FVY wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> We are the proud owners of 6 K3/100 used at the FY5KE contest station. >> These radios has been delivered around mid-2008 and their serial numbers >> are in the 012xx range. >> >> After using mostly these rigs for SSB contesting in FY5KE or in other >> places, we are still facing a lack of "dynamics", "punch", >> "penetration", "power", whatever you call it. In other words, when >> comparing this rig to our radios we previously used (TS-850), with the >> same microphone (Heil HC-4 element) and the same output RF power, the K3 >> is clearly way behind in term of "average power" we can read on the Bird >> wattmeter wired on its RF output. Even if observing the wattmeter needle >> is not a very scientific measurement (we admit it), various comparative >> reports on the air do confirm our feeling. >> >> We spent time on various available settings (mic gain, compressor level, >> etc), with no luck, excepted a very distorted and awful audio to roughly >> reach the same level, which is not acceptable. >> >> After a little Googling, it appears that other contesters suffers the >> same issue (e.g. www.bavarian-contest-club.de/projects/K3_english.pdf >> pages 6 and 10). >> >> Some questions : >> >> - Do other contesters (or not) here have noted the same problem ? >> - What settings did you modified (or not) to achieve a good result ? >> - Is there any possible HW or SW upgrade we aren't aware of, that could >> help us ? >> >> We must confess we are currently preparing our next contest season, and >> we are seriously considering reselling these radios and bring others >> Japanese models if we can't solve this problem, despite we really >> appreciate them in many other aspects (size, weight, etc.). >> >> 73 >> >> For the FY5KE/Win-Test team, >> >> Larry - F6FVY >> <snip> >> > > -- > View this message in context: > http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-SSB-modulation-tp5442219p5442701.html > Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Laurent HAAS - F6FVY
Larry,
I would suggest setting the lowest three bands of the TX EQ to lower settings to reduce the bass response from the SSB RF. Those low frequencies take a lot of RF energy, but do not add to intelligibility. In other words, they aid in recognition of the voice,, but do not add any "punch". 73, Don W3FPR Laurent HAAS - F6FVY wrote: > Hi > > We are the proud owners of 6 K3/100 used at the FY5KE contest station. > These radios has been delivered around mid-2008 and their serial numbers > are in the 012xx range. > > After using mostly these rigs for SSB contesting in FY5KE or in other > places, we are still facing a lack of "dynamics", "punch", > "penetration", "power", whatever you call it. In other words, when > comparing this rig to our radios we previously used (TS-850), with the > same microphone (Heil HC-4 element) and the same output RF power, the K3 > is clearly way behind in term of "average power" we can read on the Bird > wattmeter wired on its RF output. Even if observing the wattmeter needle > is not a very scientific measurement (we admit it), various comparative > reports on the air do confirm our feeling. > > We spent time on various available settings (mic gain, compressor level, > etc), with no luck, excepted a very distorted and awful audio to roughly > reach the same level, which is not acceptable. > > After a little Googling, it appears that other contesters suffers the > same issue (e.g. www.bavarian-contest-club.de/projects/K3_english.pdf > pages 6 and 10). > > Some questions : > > - Do other contesters (or not) here have noted the same problem ? > - What settings did you modified (or not) to achieve a good result ? > - Is there any possible HW or SW upgrade we aren't aware of, that could > help us ? > > We must confess we are currently preparing our next contest season, and > we are seriously considering reselling these radios and bring others > Japanese models if we can't solve this problem, despite we really > appreciate them in many other aspects (size, weight, etc.). > > 73 > > For the FY5KE/Win-Test team, > > Larry - F6FVY > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Jim Cox
Of course you have to use compression to get any kind of decent punch in your output. But I thought this would be obvious to anybody doing contesting.
AB2TC - Knut
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In reply to this post by Jim Cox
Take a look at the Heil website. All (most) Heil mics/headsets work best
with a lot of gain and compression, at least more than you would probably use with stock mics. My compression is 25 and gain is 50. I receive many comments regarding the quality of the audio. Good Comments (LOL) Good Luck Rich ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Laurent HAAS - F6FVY
Take a look at MAIN menu option MIC SEL....believe you need to select HI mic gain range by tapping "1" to toggle between LO and HI mic gain.
When I used a Heil HC4 element on my K3 I needed to use the HI mic gain setting to get good audio out with good RF output.....give it a try. The Heil HC4 element (dynamic not electret) at the HI mic gain setting worked FB in my K3. 73, Joe W2KJ I QRP, therefor I am > Hi > > We are the proud owners of 6 K3/100 used at the FY5KE contest station. > These radios has been delivered around mid-2008 and their serial numbers > are in the 012xx range. > > After using mostly these rigs for SSB contesting in FY5KE or in other > places, we are still facing a lack of "dynamics", "punch", > "penetration", "power", whatever you call it. In other words, when > comparing this rig to our radios we previously used (TS-850), with the > same microphone (Heil HC-4 element) and the same output RF power, the K3 > is clearly way behind in term of "average power" we can read on the Bird > wattmeter wired on its RF output. Even if observing the wattmeter needle > is not a very scientific measurement (we admit it), various comparative > reports on the air do confirm our feeling. > > We spent time on various available settings (mic gain, compressor level, > etc), with no luck, excepted a very distorted and awful audio to roughly > reach the same level, which is not acceptable. > > After a little Googling, it appears that other contesters suffers the > same issue (e.g. www.bavarian-contest-club.de/projects/K3_english.pdf > pages 6 and 10). > > Some questions : > > - Do other contesters (or not) here have noted the same problem ? > - What settings did you modified (or not) to achieve a good result ? > - Is there any possible HW or SW upgrade we aren't aware of, that could > help us ? > > We must confess we are currently preparing our next contest season, and > we are seriously considering reselling these radios and bring others > Japanese models if we can't solve this problem, despite we really > appreciate them in many other aspects (size, weight, etc.). > > 73 > > For the FY5KE/Win-Test team, > > Larry - F6FVY ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I use the Heil MD2 microphone which has an electret element. I have both
compression and mic gain set to 25, and mic set to front panel low with bias. I have far more 'talk power' than I have enjoyed with any previous radio. 73 Stephen G4SJP On 20/08/2010 04:24, "Joseph Trombino, Jr" <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Hi >> >> We are the proud owners of 6 K3/100 used at the FY5KE contest station. >> These radios has been delivered around mid-2008 and their serial numbers >> are in the 012xx range. >> >> After using mostly these rigs for SSB contesting in FY5KE or in other >> places, we are still facing a lack of "dynamics", "punch", >> "penetration", "power", whatever you call it. In other words, when >> comparing this rig to our radios we previously used (TS-850), with the >> same microphone (Heil HC-4 element) and the same output RF power, the K3 >> is clearly way behind in term of "average power" we can read on the Bird >> wattmeter wired on its RF output. Even if observing the wattmeter needle >> is not a very scientific measurement (we admit it), various comparative >> reports on the air do confirm our feeling. >> >> We spent time on various available settings (mic gain, compressor level, >> etc), with no luck, excepted a very distorted and awful audio to roughly >> reach the same level, which is not acceptable. >> >> After a little Googling, it appears that other contesters suffers the >> same issue (e.g. www.bavarian-contest-club.de/projects/K3_english.pdf >> pages 6 and 10). >> >> Some questions : >> >> - Do other contesters (or not) here have noted the same problem ? >> - What settings did you modified (or not) to achieve a good result ? >> - Is there any possible HW or SW upgrade we aren't aware of, that could >> help us ? >> >> We must confess we are currently preparing our next contest season, and >> we are seriously considering reselling these radios and bring others >> Japanese models if we can't solve this problem, despite we really >> appreciate them in many other aspects (size, weight, etc.). >> >> 73 >> >> For the FY5KE/Win-Test team, >> >> Larry - F6FVY > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I use a small plane / helicopter pilot's headset and my settings are similar:
- bias on - low - mic gain ca. 10 - compression between 20 and 25 - reduced bass with the tx equalizer (my voice is very deep) The lack of "SSB-Umph" was solved a long time ago, and that BCC report we wrote way back when, is now out of date. The quality of the K3's modulation was never bad, but in the early days was too "pretty" for contest use. vy 73 de toby > I use the Heil MD2 microphone which has an electret element. I have both > compression and mic gain set to 25, and mic set to front panel low with > bias. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Joseph Trombino, Jr
**Without using enough compression** (CMP), a lack of SSB average power
level occurs because the ALC does not act the same in the SSB mode as it does in other radios. This makes the audio sound thinner or less powerful because there is less very short term (fast speed) compression to level voice amplitude peaks and valleys. Using higher compression corrects this. For example using a sample and hold Bird 4391 power meter (it stores the highest readings for later viewing), the highest (MAX) readings are: FT1000MP MKV no processing, normal ALC, peak to average power ratio 4.26:1 normal processing, normal ALC, peak to average ratio 3.85:1 K3 no comp, normal ALC, peak to average ratio 4.7 comp 20, normal ALC, peak to average ratio 2.84 The 1000MP is almost the same with or without processor The K3 has a drastic improvement I have not looked at waveforms on a scope, but this is what the 4391 Power Analyst says. It would be interesting to look at some speech patterns, but I have no idea what a good reference input would be or how to accomplish that. The above is with my voice and saying "hello test one two three" several times normally. :-) I must use the CMP at 20 or more or the audio sounds thin. No amount of mic gain will correct this. >From 4391 Bird meter readings and my ear I think this K3 behavior is proper, and the Yaesu actually is lacking because the ALC distorts the peak to average ratio too much. In the K3, the ALC is not a processor. In the Yaesu, the ALC acts as a processor. 73 Tom >> After using mostly these rigs for SSB contesting in FY5KE or in other >> places, we are still facing a lack of "dynamics", "punch", >> "penetration", "power", whatever you call it. In other words, when >> comparing this rig to our radios we previously used (TS-850), with the >> same microphone (Heil HC-4 element) and the same output RF power, the K3 >> is clearly way behind in term of "average power" we can read on the Bird >> wattmeter wired on its RF output. Even if observing the wattmeter needle >> is not a very scientific measurement (we admit it), various comparative >> reports on the air do confirm our feeling. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Laurent HAAS - F6FVY
1. The plain HC4 (non-electret) cartridge should be set to FP.H or rP.H (tap 1 to toggle L<>H while in MIC SEL) with no bIAS (tap 2 to toggle on<>off while in MIC SEL). 2. Set CMP = 0. Adjust MIC for 5-7 bar peaks on the ALC meter when using a normal contest voice. Set CMP = 23 or your listening preference in MONitor. With PWR set max CW (110W), I measure 92.9W in TUNE while using a factory calibrated LP-100A (so maybe I need to calibrate my K3 again). When speaking in a contest voice, I measure ~90W peaks (sometimes up to 94.5). The audio sounds punchy but clean and the meter indicates output peaks are where they should be. I don't use any EQ with my HC4. Since you're a multiop, you might want to consider LOCKing your MIC, CMP, and PWR settings in CONFIG:PWR SET (toggle 1 to lock<>unlock), or at least provide some training on point #2 above to your operators. 73, Bill 73, Bill |
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In reply to this post by W8JI
> I have not looked at waveforms on a scope, but this is what the 4391 > Power Analyst says. It would be interesting to look at some speech > patterns, but I have no idea what a good reference input would be or > how to accomplish that. The above is with my voice and saying "hello > test one two three" several times normally. :-) Jack, W8OZA did an extensive review of K3 transmit audio processing using air traffic voice samples and his usual arsenal of automated test equipment in March 2009. http://cliftonlaboratories.com/elecraft_k3_speech_processing.htm The Telepost LP-100 wattmeter includes a peak to average function that shows the effects of compression/clipping. It is interesting to see the amount of "RF compression" introduced by traditional ALC - particularly when one understands the amount of distortion created. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 8/20/2010 6:33 AM, Tom W8JI wrote: > **Without using enough compression** (CMP), a lack of SSB average > power level occurs because the ALC does not act the same in the SSB > mode as it does in other radios. This makes the audio sound thinner > or less powerful because there is less very short term (fast speed) > compression to level voice amplitude peaks and valleys. > > Using higher compression corrects this. > > For example using a sample and hold Bird 4391 power meter (it stores > the highest readings for later viewing), the highest (MAX) readings > are: > > FT1000MP MKV no processing, normal ALC, peak to average power ratio > 4.26:1 normal processing, normal ALC, peak to average ratio 3.85:1 > > K3 no comp, normal ALC, peak to average ratio 4.7 comp 20, normal > ALC, peak to average ratio 2.84 > > The 1000MP is almost the same with or without processor The K3 has a > drastic improvement > > I have not looked at waveforms on a scope, but this is what the 4391 > Power Analyst says. It would be interesting to look at some speech > patterns, but I have no idea what a good reference input would be or > how to accomplish that. The above is with my voice and saying "hello > test one two three" several times normally. :-) > > I must use the CMP at 20 or more or the audio sounds thin. No amount > of mic gain will correct this. > >> From 4391 Bird meter readings and my ear I think this K3 behavior >> is proper, > and the Yaesu actually is lacking because the ALC distorts the peak > to average ratio too much. In the K3, the ALC is not a processor. In > the Yaesu, the ALC acts as a processor. > > 73 Tom > > >>> After using mostly these rigs for SSB contesting in FY5KE or in >>> other places, we are still facing a lack of "dynamics", "punch", >>> "penetration", "power", whatever you call it. In other words, >>> when comparing this rig to our radios we previously used >>> (TS-850), with the same microphone (Heil HC-4 element) and the >>> same output RF power, the K3 is clearly way behind in term of >>> "average power" we can read on the Bird wattmeter wired on its >>> RF output. Even if observing the wattmeter needle is not a very >>> scientific measurement (we admit it), various comparative >>> reports on the air do confirm our feeling. > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list Home: > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: > http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: > mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this > email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Stephen Prior
Who uses the Elecraft hand mic? I do and mic gain has to be set low; i.e. around 8 or 9 to prevent clipping and flat topping as viewed on a monitor scope. This is with mic sensitivity set to low in the menu. I was once told that the hand mics are a tad hot, but mine seems to be excessively so.
Regardless, my comp is set to 15 or 20 and I get excellent audio reports. James K2QI Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Prior <[hidden email]> Sender: [hidden email] Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 10:21:00 To: elecraft<[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 : SSB modulation I use the Heil MD2 microphone which has an electret element. I have both compression and mic gain set to 25, and mic set to front panel low with bias. I have far more 'talk power' than I have enjoyed with any previous radio. 73 Stephen G4SJP On 20/08/2010 04:24, "Joseph Trombino, Jr" <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Hi >> >> We are the proud owners of 6 K3/100 used at the FY5KE contest station. >> These radios has been delivered around mid-2008 and their serial numbers >> are in the 012xx range. >> >> After using mostly these rigs for SSB contesting in FY5KE or in other >> places, we are still facing a lack of "dynamics", "punch", >> "penetration", "power", whatever you call it. In other words, when >> comparing this rig to our radios we previously used (TS-850), with the >> same microphone (Heil HC-4 element) and the same output RF power, the K3 >> is clearly way behind in term of "average power" we can read on the Bird >> wattmeter wired on its RF output. Even if observing the wattmeter needle >> is not a very scientific measurement (we admit it), various comparative >> reports on the air do confirm our feeling. >> >> We spent time on various available settings (mic gain, compressor level, >> etc), with no luck, excepted a very distorted and awful audio to roughly >> reach the same level, which is not acceptable. >> >> After a little Googling, it appears that other contesters suffers the >> same issue (e.g. www.bavarian-contest-club.de/projects/K3_english.pdf >> pages 6 and 10). >> >> Some questions : >> >> - Do other contesters (or not) here have noted the same problem ? >> - What settings did you modified (or not) to achieve a good result ? >> - Is there any possible HW or SW upgrade we aren't aware of, that could >> help us ? >> >> We must confess we are currently preparing our next contest season, and >> we are seriously considering reselling these radios and bring others >> Japanese models if we can't solve this problem, despite we really >> appreciate them in many other aspects (size, weight, etc.). >> >> 73 >> >> For the FY5KE/Win-Test team, >> >> Larry - F6FVY > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Hi James,
I'm using MH2 also for Field day opertions and almost same as you, set MIC=2 & COMP=20 TX equalizer has been adjust to my loud voice given preferential to medium high audio. Great 73's Philippe A65BI K3#3616 >>> <[hidden email]> 20-08-2010 18:54 >>> Who uses the Elecraft hand mic? I do and mic gain has to be set low; i.e. around 8 or 9 to prevent clipping and flat topping as viewed on a monitor scope. This is with mic sensitivity set to low in the menu. I was once told that the hand mics are a tad hot, but mine seems to be excessively so. Regardless, my comp is set to 15 or 20 and I get excellent audio reports. James K2QI Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Prior <[hidden email]> Sender: [hidden email] Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 10:21:00 To: elecraft<[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 : SSB modulation I use the Heil MD2 microphone which has an electret element. I have both compression and mic gain set to 25, and mic set to front panel low with bias. I have far more 'talk power' than I have enjoyed with any previous radio. 73 Stephen G4SJP On 20/08/2010 04:24, "Joseph Trombino, Jr" <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Hi >> >> We are the proud owners of 6 K3/100 used at the FY5KE contest station. >> These radios has been delivered around mid-2008 and their serial numbers >> are in the 012xx range. >> >> After using mostly these rigs for SSB contesting in FY5KE or in other >> places, we are still facing a lack of "dynamics", "punch", >> "penetration", "power", whatever you call it. In other words, when >> comparing this rig to our radios we previously used (TS-850), with the >> same microphone (Heil HC-4 element) and the same output RF power, the K3 >> is clearly way behind in term of "average power" we can read on the Bird >> wattmeter wired on its RF output. Even if observing the wattmeter needle >> is not a very scientific measurement (we admit it), various comparative >> reports on the air do confirm our feeling. >> >> We spent time on various available settings (mic gain, compressor level, >> etc), with no luck, excepted a very distorted and awful audio to roughly >> reach the same level, which is not acceptable. >> >> After a little Googling, it appears that other contesters suffers the >> same issue (e.g. www.bavarian-contest-club.de/projects/K3_english.pdf >> pages 6 and 10). >> >> Some questions : >> >> - Do other contesters (or not) here have noted the same problem ? >> - What settings did you modified (or not) to achieve a good result ? >> - Is there any possible HW or SW upgrade we aren't aware of, that could >> help us ? >> >> We must confess we are currently preparing our next contest season, and >> we are seriously considering reselling these radios and bring others >> Japanese models if we can't solve this problem, despite we really >> appreciate them in many other aspects (size, weight, etc.). >> >> 73 >> >> For the FY5KE/Win-Test team, >> >> Larry - F6FVY > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Are any of you guys driving your K3 with W2IHY or other audio rack gear? If
so, I'm curious as to the settings you ended up with on the rig. I'm still waiting for my K3 to get back from the factory, but I plan on running the full stack of W2IHY gear with a Heil GM-5 Mic. I imagine I will probably end up with the comp and EQ on the rig turned off, but I'd like to hear what others do. Tim AE6LX On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 7:57 AM, Philippe Trottet <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi James, > I'm using MH2 also for Field day opertions and almost same as you, set > MIC=2 & COMP=20 TX equalizer has been adjust to my loud voice given > preferential to medium high audio. Great > 73's > Philippe A65BI > K3#3616 > > >>> <[hidden email]> 20-08-2010 18:54 >>> > Who uses the Elecraft hand mic? I do and mic gain has to be set low; i.e. > around 8 or 9 to prevent clipping and flat topping as viewed on a monitor > scope. This is with mic sensitivity set to low in the menu. I was once > told that the hand mics are a tad hot, but mine seems to be excessively so. > > Regardless, my comp is set to 15 or 20 and I get excellent audio reports. > > James K2QI > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stephen Prior <[hidden email]> > Sender: [hidden email] > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 10:21:00 > To: elecraft<[hidden email]> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 : SSB modulation > > I use the Heil MD2 microphone which has an electret element. I have both > compression and mic gain set to 25, and mic set to front panel low with > bias. > > I have far more 'talk power' than I have enjoyed with any previous radio. > > 73 Stephen G4SJP > > > On 20/08/2010 04:24, "Joseph Trombino, Jr" <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > >> Hi > >> > >> We are the proud owners of 6 K3/100 used at the FY5KE contest station. > >> These radios has been delivered around mid-2008 and their serial numbers > >> are in the 012xx range. > >> > >> After using mostly these rigs for SSB contesting in FY5KE or in other > >> places, we are still facing a lack of "dynamics", "punch", > >> "penetration", "power", whatever you call it. In other words, when > >> comparing this rig to our radios we previously used (TS-850), with the > >> same microphone (Heil HC-4 element) and the same output RF power, the K3 > >> is clearly way behind in term of "average power" we can read on the Bird > >> wattmeter wired on its RF output. Even if observing the wattmeter needle > >> is not a very scientific measurement (we admit it), various comparative > >> reports on the air do confirm our feeling. > >> > >> We spent time on various available settings (mic gain, compressor level, > >> etc), with no luck, excepted a very distorted and awful audio to roughly > >> reach the same level, which is not acceptable. > >> > >> After a little Googling, it appears that other contesters suffers the > >> same issue (e.g. www.bavarian-contest-club.de/projects/K3_english.pdf > >> pages 6 and 10). > >> > >> Some questions : > >> > >> - Do other contesters (or not) here have noted the same problem ? > >> - What settings did you modified (or not) to achieve a good result ? > >> - Is there any possible HW or SW upgrade we aren't aware of, that could > >> help us ? > >> > >> We must confess we are currently preparing our next contest season, and > >> we are seriously considering reselling these radios and bring others > >> Japanese models if we can't solve this problem, despite we really > >> appreciate them in many other aspects (size, weight, etc.). > >> > >> 73 > >> > >> For the FY5KE/Win-Test team, > >> > >> Larry - F6FVY > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Laurent HAAS - F6FVY
"Of course you have to use compression to get any kind of decent punch in your
output. But I thought this would be obvious to anybody doing contesting. AB2TC - Knut" GEE. Here all these years I thought in a contest I was supposed to crank the compression to max, and use a SURE 444...........Infact, I used to remove the knob during a contest so I couldn't accidently turn it down. ;-) John K2QY ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Tim Tucker
Hello Tim,
I use the Heil Pro-set K2 with the IC mic into a W2IHY Equalizer and Noise Gate. I set the W2IHY for bias and the K3 for no bias. I use this because (at least initially) the K3 noise gate caused audio distortion and I was getting bad audio reports. With the current setup I get great audio reports. I run the Compression around 25, and the Mic gain so I get the usual 6 bars on the ALC meter. GL and VY 73, Lance On 8/20/2010 3:54 PM, Tim Tucker wrote: > Are any of you guys driving your K3 with W2IHY or other audio rack gear? If > so, I'm curious as to the settings you ended up with on the rig. I'm still > waiting for my K3 to get back from the factory, but I plan on running the > full stack of W2IHY gear with a Heil GM-5 Mic. I imagine I will probably > end up with the comp and EQ on the rig turned off, but I'd like to hear what > others do. > > Tim > AE6LX > -- Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX, 3D2LR) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT 59834 USA QTH: DN27UB TEL: (406) 626-5728 URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj 2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815 Interested in 6m EME? Ask me about subscribing to the MAGIC BAND EME email reflector! ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Tim Tucker
> Are any of you guys driving your K3 with W2IHY or other audio rack > gear? Why bother? The K3 already provides all of the capability of the W2IHY 8 band EQ/noise gate, adds downward expansion in the noise gate and there is no issue with external hum loops, RF pick-up, etc. > I'm still waiting for my K3 to get back from the factory, but I plan > on running the full stack of W2IHY gear with a Heil GM-5 Mic. I've used wide range (broadcast style) mics and the Heil HC-5 element with the K3's internal EQ and find that configuring the K3 for a 6 dB per octave roll off below 400 Hz (50 Hz: -16dB, 100 Hz: -12dB, 200 Hz: -6 dB), a -6dB "notch" at 800 Hz and 6 dB per octave rise above 1000 Hz (1600 Hz: +6dB, 2400 Hz: +10dB, 3200 Hz: +12dB) yields extremely good audio reports with the "broadcast" mic and a lot of "presence" without the "restricted" sound on the HC-5. Coupled with "CMP" at 25, this provides plenty of "punch" without sounding over processed and "all highs" like the HC-4. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 8/20/2010 11:54 AM, Tim Tucker wrote: > Are any of you guys driving your K3 with W2IHY or other audio rack gear? If > so, I'm curious as to the settings you ended up with on the rig. I'm still > waiting for my K3 to get back from the factory, but I plan on running the > full stack of W2IHY gear with a Heil GM-5 Mic. I imagine I will probably > end up with the comp and EQ on the rig turned off, but I'd like to hear what > others do. > > Tim > AE6LX > > On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 7:57 AM, Philippe Trottet<[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Hi James, >> I'm using MH2 also for Field day opertions and almost same as you, set >> MIC=2& COMP=20 TX equalizer has been adjust to my loud voice given >> preferential to medium high audio. Great >> 73's >> Philippe A65BI >> K3#3616 >> >>>>> <[hidden email]> 20-08-2010 18:54>>> >> Who uses the Elecraft hand mic? I do and mic gain has to be set low; i.e. >> around 8 or 9 to prevent clipping and flat topping as viewed on a monitor >> scope. This is with mic sensitivity set to low in the menu. I was once >> told that the hand mics are a tad hot, but mine seems to be excessively so. >> >> Regardless, my comp is set to 15 or 20 and I get excellent audio reports. >> >> James K2QI >> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Stephen Prior<[hidden email]> >> Sender: [hidden email] >> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 10:21:00 >> To: elecraft<[hidden email]> >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 : SSB modulation >> >> I use the Heil MD2 microphone which has an electret element. I have both >> compression and mic gain set to 25, and mic set to front panel low with >> bias. >> >> I have far more 'talk power' than I have enjoyed with any previous radio. >> >> 73 Stephen G4SJP >> >> >> On 20/08/2010 04:24, "Joseph Trombino, Jr"<[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> We are the proud owners of 6 K3/100 used at the FY5KE contest station. >>>> These radios has been delivered around mid-2008 and their serial numbers >>>> are in the 012xx range. >>>> >>>> After using mostly these rigs for SSB contesting in FY5KE or in other >>>> places, we are still facing a lack of "dynamics", "punch", >>>> "penetration", "power", whatever you call it. In other words, when >>>> comparing this rig to our radios we previously used (TS-850), with the >>>> same microphone (Heil HC-4 element) and the same output RF power, the K3 >>>> is clearly way behind in term of "average power" we can read on the Bird >>>> wattmeter wired on its RF output. Even if observing the wattmeter needle >>>> is not a very scientific measurement (we admit it), various comparative >>>> reports on the air do confirm our feeling. >>>> >>>> We spent time on various available settings (mic gain, compressor level, >>>> etc), with no luck, excepted a very distorted and awful audio to roughly >>>> reach the same level, which is not acceptable. >>>> >>>> After a little Googling, it appears that other contesters suffers the >>>> same issue (e.g. www.bavarian-contest-club.de/projects/K3_english.pdf >>>> pages 6 and 10). >>>> >>>> Some questions : >>>> >>>> - Do other contesters (or not) here have noted the same problem ? >>>> - What settings did you modified (or not) to achieve a good result ? >>>> - Is there any possible HW or SW upgrade we aren't aware of, that could >>>> help us ? >>>> >>>> We must confess we are currently preparing our next contest season, and >>>> we are seriously considering reselling these radios and bring others >>>> Japanese models if we can't solve this problem, despite we really >>>> appreciate them in many other aspects (size, weight, etc.). >>>> >>>> 73 >>>> >>>> For the FY5KE/Win-Test team, >>>> >>>> Larry - F6FVY >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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