K3: Simple NR/NB feature suggestion

[Tim Tucker]

I've followed the various discussions on how well the NR/NB works as
compared to other rigs.  I've used NR functionality in many different rigs,
as well as just about every after market solution.  In my area, the QRM
makes NR/NB absolutely a necessity.

Part of makes the NR & NB seem "easier" to use in other rigs (like Icoms) is
that the setting is continually variable from least to most.  The operator
can tell when he's gotten too aggressive with it to suit his listening style
and can easily back it down.  As we all know, the K3 allows you to cycle
through the various levels within an group setting and then you go through
that cycle again with the next group setting (I think I said that correctly
;) )

Here's my feature suggestion - For me, it seems that I am often trying to
compare the amount of NR/NB applied between the major groupings.  For
example, when I operate SSB (which is most of the time), I may already know
that I want just a little NR based on what I hear, but I want to hear the
difference between 5-1, 6-1,7-1, and 8-1.  But I can't do that without
cycling through them all.  Also, because I have to go from 5-1 to 5-2, 5-3,
etc. before I get to 6-1, my ears have lost the reference point, which was
5-1.  Same thing applies with NB settings.  If we could have a menu button
while in DSP adjustment that would rearrange the settings so they cycled
through the groups at the same level setting first, I think it would be very
powerful and very awesome!  For the NR, you would need to preserve the
groupings that are intended for CW/digital & voice.  As I understand it,
settings 1-1 through 4-4 are intended for CW/digital and 5-1 through 8-4 are
intended for phone?  Assuming my previous statement is correct, the new NR
option, when activated would cycle like this:
1-1, 2-1, 3-1, 4-1, 1-2, 2-2, 3-2. 4-2, (etc), 5-1, 6-1, 7-1, 8-1, 5-2, 6-2,
7-2, 8-2, (etc.).

The NB could have the same feature.  It seems like it would be a fairly
simple firmware feature addition without doing major changes to the actual
NR/NB algorithms and also bridge the differences between an Icom like
implementation and the Elecraft implementation.  You should also be able to
switch it easily back and forth between the two options.  Does anybody else
like this concept?

Tim
AE6LX
www.worldwidedx.com
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[al_lorona]

Tim, I like this idea for the same reasons you articulated so well.

Regards,

Al  W6LX

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Steve Ellington]

Tim:
Sounds like a good idea to put them in that order and then drop the F and
number them 1through 32. Sometimes simple is better!

Steve
N4LQ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Tucker" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 4:43 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3: Simple NR/NB feature suggestion

> I've followed the various discussions on how well the NR/NB works as
> compared to other rigs.  I've used NR functionality in many different
> rigs,
> as well as just about every after market solution.  In my area, the QRM
> makes NR/NB absolutely a necessity.
>
> Part of makes the NR & NB seem "easier" to use in other rigs (like Icoms)
> is
> that the setting is continually variable from least to most.  The operator
> can tell when he's gotten too aggressive with it to suit his listening
> style
> and can easily back it down.  As we all know, the K3 allows you to cycle
> through the various levels within an group setting and then you go through
> that cycle again with the next group setting (I think I said that
> correctly
> ;) )
>
> Here's my feature suggestion - For me, it seems that I am often trying to
> compare the amount of NR/NB applied between the major groupings.  For
> example, when I operate SSB (which is most of the time), I may already
> know
> that I want just a little NR based on what I hear, but I want to hear the
> difference between 5-1, 6-1,7-1, and 8-1.  But I can't do that without
> cycling through them all.  Also, because I have to go from 5-1 to 5-2,
> 5-3,
> etc. before I get to 6-1, my ears have lost the reference point, which was
> 5-1.  Same thing applies with NB settings.  If we could have a menu button
> while in DSP adjustment that would rearrange the settings so they cycled
> through the groups at the same level setting first, I think it would be
> very
> powerful and very awesome!  For the NR, you would need to preserve the
> groupings that are intended for CW/digital & voice.  As I understand it,
> settings 1-1 through 4-4 are intended for CW/digital and 5-1 through 8-4
> are
> intended for phone?  Assuming my previous statement is correct, the new NR
> option, when activated would cycle like this:
> 1-1, 2-1, 3-1, 4-1, 1-2, 2-2, 3-2. 4-2, (etc), 5-1, 6-1, 7-1, 8-1, 5-2,
> 6-2,
> 7-2, 8-2, (etc.).
>
> The NB could have the same feature.  It seems like it would be a fairly
> simple firmware feature addition without doing major changes to the actual
> NR/NB algorithms and also bridge the differences between an Icom like
> implementation and the Elecraft implementation.  You should also be able
> to
> switch it easily back and forth between the two options.  Does anybody
> else
> like this concept?
>
> Tim
> AE6LX
> www.worldwidedx.com
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[N5GE]

I don't. See below...

On Tue, 17 May 2011 13:43:15 -0700, Tim Tucker <[hidden email]> wrote:

>I've followed the various discussions on how well the NR/NB works as
>compared to other rigs.  I've used NR functionality in many different rigs,
>as well as just about every after market solution.  In my area, the QRM
>makes NR/NB absolutely a necessity.
>
>Part of makes the NR & NB seem "easier" to use in other rigs (like Icoms) is
>that the setting is continually variable from least to most.  The operator
>can tell when he's gotten too aggressive with it to suit his listening style
>and can easily back it down.  As we all know, the K3 allows you to cycle
>through the various levels within an group setting and then you go through
>that cycle again with the next group setting (I think I said that correctly
>;) )

I like the groups, they kelp me know where I am in the sequence.

>
>Here's my feature suggestion - For me, it seems that I am often trying to
>compare the amount of NR/NB applied between the major groupings.  For
>example, when I operate SSB (which is most of the time), I may already know
>that I want just a little NR based on what I hear, but I want to hear the
>difference between 5-1, 6-1,7-1, and 8-1.  But I can't do that without
>cycling through them all.  Also, because I have to go from 5-1 to 5-2, 5-3,
>etc. before I get to 6-1, my ears have lost the reference point, which was
>5-1.  Same thing applies with NB settings.  If we could have a menu button
>while in DSP adjustment that would rearrange the settings so they cycled
>through the groups at the same level setting first, I think it would be very
>powerful and very awesome!  For the NR, you would need to preserve the
>groupings that are intended for CW/digital & voice.  As I understand it,
>settings 1-1 through 4-4 are intended for CW/digital and 5-1 through 8-4 are
>intended for phone?  Assuming my previous statement is correct, the new NR
>option, when activated would cycle like this:
>1-1, 2-1, 3-1, 4-1, 1-2, 2-2, 3-2. 4-2, (etc), 5-1, 6-1, 7-1, 8-1, 5-2, 6-2,
>7-2, 8-2, (etc.).

I probably don't really understand what you are doing here, but on the surface
it seems to me you are asking that the settings be grouped by number instead of
a text description.

>
>The NB could have the same feature.  It seems like it would be a fairly
>simple firmware feature addition without doing major changes to the actual
>NR/NB algorithms and also bridge the differences between an Icom like
>implementation and the Elecraft implementation.  You should also be able to
>switch it easily back and forth between the two options.  Does anybody else
>like this concept?

Being a software developer, I can tell you that what you are asking for is not

>a fairly
>simple firmware feature addition without doing major changes

and frankly I don't think it is a good idea to make a change like you suggest,
when the current system works fine.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

>
>Tim
>AE6LX
[snip]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Charles Johnson]

Good suggestion. I like it.

73, Charlie, K4ZRJ



Sent from my MacBook Pro.

On May 17, 2011, at 4:43 PM, Tim Tucker wrote:

> I've followed the various discussions on how well the NR/NB works as
> compared to other rigs.  I've used NR functionality in many different rigs,
> as well as just about every after market solution.  In my area, the QRM
> makes NR/NB absolutely a necessity.
>
> Part of makes the NR & NB seem "easier" to use in other rigs (like Icoms) is
> that the setting is continually variable from least to most.  The operator
> can tell when he's gotten too aggressive with it to suit his listening style
> and can easily back it down.  As we all know, the K3 allows you to cycle
> through the various levels within an group setting and then you go through
> that cycle again with the next group setting (I think I said that correctly
> ;) )
>
> Here's my feature suggestion - For me, it seems that I am often trying to
> compare the amount of NR/NB applied between the major groupings.  For
> example, when I operate SSB (which is most of the time), I may already know
> that I want just a little NR based on what I hear, but I want to hear the
> difference between 5-1, 6-1,7-1, and 8-1.  But I can't do that without
> cycling through them all.  Also, because I have to go from 5-1 to 5-2, 5-3,
> etc. before I get to 6-1, my ears have lost the reference point, which was
> 5-1.  Same thing applies with NB settings.  If we could have a menu button
> while in DSP adjustment that would rearrange the settings so they cycled
> through the groups at the same level setting first, I think it would be very
> powerful and very awesome!  For the NR, you would need to preserve the
> groupings that are intended for CW/digital & voice.  As I understand it,
> settings 1-1 through 4-4 are intended for CW/digital and 5-1 through 8-4 are
> intended for phone?  Assuming my previous statement is correct, the new NR
> option, when activated would cycle like this:
> 1-1, 2-1, 3-1, 4-1, 1-2, 2-2, 3-2. 4-2, (etc), 5-1, 6-1, 7-1, 8-1, 5-2, 6-2,
> 7-2, 8-2, (etc.).
>
> The NB could have the same feature.  It seems like it would be a fairly
> simple firmware feature addition without doing major changes to the actual
> NR/NB algorithms and also bridge the differences between an Icom like
> implementation and the Elecraft implementation.  You should also be able to
> switch it easily back and forth between the two options.  Does anybody else
> like this concept?
>
> Tim
> AE6LX
> www.worldwidedx.com
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[w4nhj]

Another suggestion is to have the main tuning knob change the left number and the VFO B knob change
the right number.  This way you can increment or decrement either.

Frank - W4NHJ

[Tim Tucker]

>
> *Another suggestion is to have the main tuning knob change the left number
> and
> the VFO B knob change
> the right number.  This way you can increment or decrement either.
> *


That would work too.

*frankly I don't think it is a good idea to make a change like you suggest,
when the current system works fine.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.*


I understand that not everyone would like this.  That isn't the point.
Clearly there are enough people that have some issue with the way the NR/NB
is implemented that some discussion on other points of view can't hurt.  If
you could change the way it works to either method, it would satisfy either
use case scenario.  And BTW, I'm also an extremely experienced software
developer, so I understand the implications of what I'm asking.  Elecraft
knows the code base; we don't, so I'll defer to their judgment on how
difficult it is to implement.

Tim
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Johnny Siu]

Hello Tim,
 
Yes, I agree with me that it would worth a try.  There are always Beta version of FW for our evaluation.  This is the selling point of elecraft.

TNX & 73,


Johnny VR2XMC

從︰ Tim Tucker <[hidden email]>
收件人︰ Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
傳送日期︰ 2011年05月18日 (週三) 11:11 AM
主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] K3: Simple NR/NB feature suggestion

>
> *Another suggestion is to have the main tuning knob change the left number
> and
> the VFO B knob change
> the right number.  This way you can increment or decrement either.
> *


That would work too.

*frankly I don't think it is a good idea to make a change like you suggest,
when the current system works fine.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.*


I understand that not everyone would like this.  That isn't the point.
Clearly there are enough people that have some issue with the way the NR/NB
is implemented that some discussion on other points of view can't hurt.  If
you could change the way it works to either method, it would satisfy either
use case scenario.  And BTW, I'm also an extremely experienced software
developer, so I understand the implications of what I'm asking.  Elecraft
knows the code base; we don't, so I'll defer to their judgment on how
difficult it is to implement.

Tim
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Gary Gregory]

Hmmm..I would like to try this also!

Gary

On 18 May 2011 16:55, Johnny Siu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello Tim,
>
> Yes, I agree with me that it would worth a try.  There are always Beta
> version of FW for our evaluation.  This is the selling point of elecraft.
>
> TNX & 73,
>
>
> Johnny VR2XMC
>
> 從︰ Tim Tucker <[hidden email]>
> 收件人︰ Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
> 傳送日期︰ 2011年05月18日 (週三) 11:11 AM
> 主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] K3: Simple NR/NB feature suggestion
>
> >
> > *Another suggestion is to have the main tuning knob change the left
> number
> > and
> > the VFO B knob change
> > the right number.  This way you can increment or decrement either.
> > *
>
>
> That would work too.
>
> *frankly I don't think it is a good idea to make a change like you suggest,
> when the current system works fine.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.*
>
>
> I understand that not everyone would like this.  That isn't the point.
> Clearly there are enough people that have some issue with the way the NR/NB
> is implemented that some discussion on other points of view can't hurt.  If
> you could change the way it works to either method, it would satisfy either
> use case scenario.  And BTW, I'm also an extremely experienced software
> developer, so I understand the implications of what I'm asking.  Elecraft
> knows the code base; we don't, so I'll defer to their judgment on how
> difficult it is to implement.
>
> Tim
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

--

VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile
Elecraft Equipment
K3 #679, KPA-500 #018
Living the dream!!!
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Dave Aslin, G3WGN]

I like Tim's suggestion and would like to try/Beta test. 73 Dave G3WGN WJ6O