Elecraft

K3 - Sub RX audio to right Line Out

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Deni F5VJC

Re: Signal analysis with the P3

Interesting,

So, given a decent mic insert the overall audio response is very much
coloured by the housing of the the insert...

Close talking a mic gives a better S/N ratio, less background noise and
room colouration, but yields too much bass due to proximity effect?

How to overcome too much bass (besides moving further from the mic)?

What effect do pop shields and the various muffs have on the sound?
.
I do understand and practice Tx audio EQ to restrict the Tx BW to 2.8-3kHz
and attenuate useless audio below say 200Hz. for maximum communications
efficiency.

I'm interested in good communications microphones and technique, but not in
spending, silly money (hundreds, thousands) when a decent mic insert can be
had for pennies, (almost).

I'm not interested in ESSB, done well or otherwise.

A good clean 3KHz SSB signal stands out and is very noticeable on our
bands today.

There are some very knowledgeable audio and broadcast people on this list
and I'm always keen to listen to their opinions.

73, F5VJC

On 29 April 2014 20:53, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 4/29/2014 12:32 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> > Not sure it is limited to dynamic mics.
>
> Proximity effect is not limited to dynamic mics. But it seems to be
> more common with dynamic mics used for amateur service because the
> electret has both a higher output level and more low end to start with.
>
>
> I recorded myself using his velocity mic [the large iconic RCA which
>> had a prismatic shape] on an Ampex 350 at varying distances. As I got
>> closer, I became more and more a bass.
>>
>
> I took every advantage of proximity effect when I started in radio.
> I had an overnight air shift - I worked the mic as close as I could
> and kept my voice level down in order to generate that more pleasing
> "low, soothing tone". When it came time to rip and read the news, I
> backed off, talked louder and faster - almost sounded like a different
> person.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
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Elecraft mailing list

Re: K3 - Sub RX audio to right Line Out SOLVED

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

In the interest of future readers, here is what I found.

I had the LIN OUT menu item set to NOR 10 as recommended. In fact, they
warn of going over that level. However, when you turn on the SUB RX,
the signal is split and you lose 3db. This can be heard in the
headphones. It seems it also affects the Line Out.

When I increased the LIN OUT level to 35, the Sub Rx could be heard in
the right channel of the Line Out. I have no idea how linear the LIN
OUT level setting is but I suspect that increase to 35 is what was
needed to overcome the attenuation that occurs when the Sub Rx switches in.

Now the issue is, the output seems unbalanced with the Main Rx signal on
the left channel of the Line Out jack being louder than the Sub Rx
signal on the right channel. I am able to compensate for this by
turning down the Main Rx gain control on the MicroHam MKII. I wasn't
able to even them out with the RF Gain control on the K3 but I will play
around with that some more.

Buck
k4ia

On 4/29/2014 11:43 AM, Buck - k4ia via Elecraft wrote:

> Joe - that is what I have set up. If I turn on the Sub Rx and plug a
> set of headphones directly into the K3 Line Out jack in the back, I
> hear audio on the left channel only. So I don't think it is the MH
> cable pigtail. The problem seems to be in the K3.
>
> Sub Rx works fine in the headphone jack on the front. This is the
> first time I have tried to listen to the Sub Rx through the rear Line
> Out jack. I was hoping it was a menu setting I was missing. I will
> check L2. I guess you are telling me it could be "open?" Why would
> that happen?
>
> Buck
> k4ia
>
> On 4/29/2014 9:50 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>> Buck,
>>
>> Where (how) are you connecting between the K3 and MK II?
>>
>> You should use a the stereo audio cable supplied with MK II to connect
>> the 3.5mm "pigtail" on the LINE OUT plug of the DB3-EL-K23 or K3R
>> cable set to the "Sub RX" jack on the back of MK II.
>>
>> Sub RX audio is present *only* when the "SUB" icon is displayed on
>> the K3 display (DUAL or DIVERSITY). If the Sub RX is on and you
>> have audio in right headphone connected to the headphone jack but
>> no audio in the right channel (ring) of the LINE OUT (or tip of the
>> pigtail on the DB37-EL-K23/K3R) I would check L2 on the KIO3 Audio
>> I/O board.
>>
>> Check for audio directly at the LINE OUT jack and at the "pigtail"
>> in case you've snagged the pigtail and broken a wire in either jack.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 4/29/2014 8:22 AM, K4ia via Elecraft wrote:
>>> I played with that setting to no avail. I am going into a Microham
>>> KeyerII which has a separate audio line for the Sub Rx. If I plug
>>> headphones into the Line Out jack on the back of the K3, I hear signals
>>> on the left side but nothing on the right so I am convinced it is the
>>> output from the K3 that is missing, not an issue with the computer
>>> or MKII.
>>>
>>>
>>> Buck
>>> k4ia
>>> K3# 101 KX3 #715
>>>
>>> On 4/29/2014 8:05 AM, Sam Morgan wrote:
>>>> hmmm, what is your Line Out set to?
>>>> mine is the recommended 010
>>>> also is the computer a desktop or laptop?
>>>>
>>>> On 4/29/2014 6:47 AM, K4ia wrote:
>>>>> Thanks Sam but that isn't it. I get the Sub RX audio just fine in
>>>>> the
>>>>> headphones.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I am missing is the Sub Rx on the right channel of the Line Out
>>>>> jack on the back of the radio.
>>>>>
>>>>> Buck
>>>>> k4ia
>>>>> K3# 101 KX3 #715
>>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>>
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>>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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Elecraft mailing list

Re: K3 - Sub RX audio to right Line Out SOLVED

Thank you I have been watching this thread

________________________________
From: Buck - k4ia via Elecraft <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Sub RX audio to right Line Out SOLVED

In the interest of future readers, here is what I found.

I had the LIN OUT menu item set to NOR 10 as recommended. In fact, they
warn of going over that level. However, when you turn on the SUB RX,
the signal is split and you lose 3db. This can be heard in the
headphones. It seems it also affects the Line Out.

When I increased the LIN OUT level to 35, the Sub Rx could be heard in
the right channel of the Line Out. I have no idea how linear the LIN
OUT level setting is but I suspect that increase to 35 is what was
needed to overcome the attenuation that occurs when the Sub Rx switches in.

Now the issue is, the output seems unbalanced with the Main Rx signal on
the left channel of the Line Out jack being louder than the Sub Rx
signal on the right channel. I am able to compensate for this by
turning down the Main Rx gain control on the MicroHam MKII. I wasn't
able to even them out with the RF Gain control on the K3 but I will play
around with that some more.

Buck
k4ia

On 4/29/2014 11:43 AM, Buck - k4ia via Elecraft wrote:

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Mike Harris-9

Re: K3 - Sub RX audio to right Line Out SOLVED

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Sorry Buck but it doesn't sound solved to me.

I've been following this thread and have just for sanities sake done the
following test:

Line out = 7

Main and Sub RX set to frequency of my XG1 (approx 7040kHz)

XG1 set to 1uV out

Spectrogram set to stereo input

Windows sound mixer balanced L & R channel

Both Sub and Main RX on CW both with 500Hz roofers and 400Hz DSP, both
filter gain compensation setting 4dB

Main RX level from Spectrogram = -82dB

Sub RX level from Spectrogram = -85dB

If it turn off Sub RX, main RX level increases to -79dB

Clearly there are measurement calibration issues here, I didn't inject a
fixed level test tone into each of the L&R channels on the PC to check
the balance.

Never the less I would conclude there is still something very wrong with
your line out.

Regards,

Mike VP8NO

<snip>
In the interest of future readers, here is what I found.

I had the LIN OUT menu item set to NOR 10 as recommended. In fact, they
warn of going over that level. However, when you turn on the SUB RX,
the signal is split and you lose 3db. This can be heard in the
headphones. It seems it also affects the Line Out.

When I increased the LIN OUT level to 35, the Sub Rx could be heard in
the right channel of the Line Out. I have no idea how linear the LIN
OUT level setting is but I suspect that increase to 35 is what was
needed to overcome the attenuation that occurs when the Sub Rx switches in.

Now the issue is, the output seems unbalanced with the Main Rx signal on
the left channel of the Line Out jack being louder than the Sub Rx
signal on the right channel. I am able to compensate for this by
turning down the Main Rx gain control on the MicroHam MKII. I wasn't
able to even them out with the RF Gain control on the K3 but I will play
around with that some more.

Buck
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3 - Sub RX audio to right Line Out SOLVED

Mike's observations are the same as mine. Using the XG-3 on 20 meters
and slow AGC, I see no change in audio output on left (Main RX) when
dual RX is enabled. With dual RX enabled, both audio channels are
the same level. MENU: LIN OUT is NOR 10. and MK II has RX Main/RX Sub
at the same point (12:00 for measurements/comparisons like this -
typically 10:00 for normal operation).

Windows Sound Control Panel - Recording Devices - Line (microHAM CODEC)
Levels tab line level is set to 40 and balance is set for 40 on each
channel. Advanced tab |Default Format is set to: 2 channel, 16 bit,
48000 Hz (DVD Quality).

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 4/30/2014 1:37 PM, Mike Harris wrote:

> Sorry Buck but it doesn't sound solved to me.
>
> I've been following this thread and have just for sanities sake done the
> following test:
>
> Line out = 7
>
> Main and Sub RX set to frequency of my XG1 (approx 7040kHz)
>
> XG1 set to 1uV out
>
> Spectrogram set to stereo input
>
> Windows sound mixer balanced L & R channel
>
> Both Sub and Main RX on CW both with 500Hz roofers and 400Hz DSP, both
> filter gain compensation setting 4dB
>
> Main RX level from Spectrogram = -82dB
>
> Sub RX level from Spectrogram = -85dB
>
> If it turn off Sub RX, main RX level increases to -79dB
>
> Clearly there are measurement calibration issues here, I didn't inject a
> fixed level test tone into each of the L&R channels on the PC to check
> the balance.
>
> Never the less I would conclude there is still something very wrong with
> your line out.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike VP8NO
>
>
> <snip>
> In the interest of future readers, here is what I found.
>
> I had the LIN OUT menu item set to NOR 10 as recommended. In fact, they
> warn of going over that level. However, when you turn on the SUB RX,
> the signal is split and you lose 3db. This can be heard in the
> headphones. It seems it also affects the Line Out.
>
> When I increased the LIN OUT level to 35, the Sub Rx could be heard in
> the right channel of the Line Out. I have no idea how linear the LIN
> OUT level setting is but I suspect that increase to 35 is what was
> needed to overcome the attenuation that occurs when the Sub Rx switches in.
>
> Now the issue is, the output seems unbalanced with the Main Rx signal on
> the left channel of the Line Out jack being louder than the Sub Rx
> signal on the right channel. I am able to compensate for this by
> turning down the Main Rx gain control on the MicroHam MKII. I wasn't
> able to even them out with the RF Gain control on the K3 but I will play
> around with that some more.
>
>
> Buck
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>