K3 Time

[kd1na]

Yesterday, I installed and tested David's K3 Timekeeper
 program for Windows XP.  It really works great and is very quick. You have to be sure your computer clock is right on before you execute the program.

73
Dave KD1NA




I've had a few requests for the K3 time updater I mentioned the other day.  So I've made it available for download.

Mac version (OS X 10.3 or later) http://sight.net/K3Time/K3Time.zip

Windows XP/VISTA (maybe 98 not sure) http://sight.net/K3Time/K3TimeWin.zip

It's very easy to use and should be self-explanatory.

Select the appropriate serial port and baud rate the first time the program is run. It will remember these settings, so they need to be set only once.

To display UTC time, click the "UTC" checkbox. To return to local time, uncheck it. Be sure the computer's system clock is set properly, and if applicable, set for Daylight Savings Time.

To setup unattended updates, click the "Auto-Update" checkbox. This will automatically update the time on the K3 whenever the program is run (if the K3 is attached and turned on, of course). When Auto-Update is enabled the program will automatically send the current system time to the K3 and then terminate after a 10 second delay. The delay allows time to turn off auto-update if need be. On Windows, you could use "Scheduled Tasks" in the control panel to set a time schedule for automatic execution of the program. On the Mac, a cron job (crontab) could be used. Cronnix is a nice Aqua frontend for cron if you're not familiar with creating crontabs from Terminal. I'm not sure how well the K3 clock keeps time. I never use it. But I would think updating the time once a week or even once a month would be sufficient.

Click the "Update K3" button to send the current system time to the K3.

That's all there is to it. The K3 time will not be *exact* with the computer, but it will get it close (within 0.5 second or so). I get the best results by clicking the update button as soon as a new second begins. Waiting until late into a second will result in the K3 being a second behind. Try clicking the update button several times until you get a good visual sync.

I've done very little testing of the Windows version. There could be bugs.

The program works by sending a sequence of CAT commands to the K3. Clicking "Update K3" begins this sequence:

K31;   // Enables K3 extended mode
MN073; // Enters CONFIG:TIME Menu option
DS;    // reads VFO A display area (now displaying TIME)

Parse DS; command response to get K3 HOUR, MINUTE and SECOND.

Determine computer HOUR, MINUTE and SECOND.

SWT13; // select SECOND

UP; or DN; until K3 SECOND = computer SECOND

SWT12; // select MINUTE

UP; or DN; until K3 MINUTE = computer MINUTE

SWT11; // select HOUR

UP; or DN; until K3 HOUR = computer HOUR

MN255; // exit menu

DONE..



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[Julian, G4ILO]

kd1na wrote

Yesterday, I installed and tested David's K3 Timekeeper
 program for Windows XP.  It really works great and is very quick. You have to be sure your computer clock is right on before you execute the program.

If you use Windows then the best program for ensuring your computer clock is spot on is NTP for Windows which you can get from here: http://www.meinberg.de/english/sw/ntp.htm . I have used it when I received NOAA satellite images and when using WSPR when you need better than one second accuracy. This program runs as a service and after it has worked out the drift in your computer clock it applies constant millisecond corrections so it is spot on all the time. The time synchronizer built in to Windows XP only syncs the clock once a week which may not be enough on some PCs.

[Dave, G4AON]

For years I've used NetTime and it works fine on my XP Pro PC here. The
program may be past it's best but it's easy to use and can synchronise
as often as you configure it to. It auto configures the time services,
or you can pick your own.

http://nettime.sourceforge.net/

I also like the K3 Time utility, much easier than manually setting the K3.

73 Dave, G4AON
K3/100 #80

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[David Woolley (E.L)]

Julian, G4ILO wrote:
>>
>>
> If you use Windows then the best program for ensuring your computer clock is
> spot on is NTP for Windows which you can get from here:
> http://www.meinberg.de/english/sw/ntp.htm . I have used it when I received

As this often causes confusion, it is worth pointing out that this is
not something written by Meinberg, but simply the reference
implementation of NTP, which Meinberg have compiled for Windows and to
which they have added an installer.  The reference implementation is the
definitive implementation that needs to be produced before an RFC can be
issued.  The NTP reference implementation is open source.

> NOAA satellite images and when using WSPR when you need better than one
> second accuracy. This program runs as a service and after it has worked out
> the drift in your computer clock it applies constant millisecond corrections

Technically it applies frequency corrections - NTP uses a PLL - it was
designed by an electronics engineer and ham.

> so it is spot on all the time. The time synchronizer built in to Windows XP

Windows is a poor platform for time and, on most other platforms the
reference implementation gives even better time, although there is some
evidence that another open source implementation, chrony, that uses the
same over the wire formats but a different (linear regression based)
mathematical approach, has better behaviour for start up and temperature
change transients, in real world use.  However chrony is only supported
on Linux, and doesn't support local radio reference clocks.

> only syncs the clock once a week which may not be enough on some PCs.

The poll period is configurable, and the Windows 2003 version can be
configured to almost use the proper NTP algorithm.  The reference
implementation is still much better, as it uses various tricks to get
round the fact that Windows only reports time to applications with a
10ms resolution, by default, or 1ms with the fastest multi-media timers.

I would generally ignore the non-open source alternatives as many are
very crude and none are better than the reference implementation, or chrony.



--
David Woolley
"The Elecraft list is a forum for the discussion of topics related to
Elecraft products and more general topics related ham radio"
List Guidelines <http://www.elecraft.com/elecraft_list_guidelines.htm>
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[hb9brj]

No need to use a 3rd party software.

Have configured Win XP's time service as described in http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314054.

Have chosen a time server which is closer to my location and reduced the update interval to 30min = 1800s.

Markus

[Tim Heasman]

Hi All,

>From run type regedit follow the path below and amend the polling interval.
Mine was set at 360000, I have reduced it to 36000.



Path
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\W32Time\TimeProviders\NtpClient

Notes This entry specifies the special poll interval in seconds for manual
peers. When the SpecialInterval 0x1 flag is enabled,

W32Time uses this poll interval instead of a poll interval determine by the
operating system. The default value on

domain members is 3,600. The default value on stand-alone clients and
servers is 604,800.



73

Tim



gm4lmh



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[Julian, G4ILO]

David Woolley (E.L) wrote

As this often causes confusion, it is worth pointing out that this is
not something written by Meinberg, but simply the reference
implementation of NTP, which Meinberg have compiled for Windows and to
which they have added an installer.  The reference implementation is the
definitive implementation that needs to be produced before an RFC can be
issued.  The NTP reference implementation is open source.

> NOAA satellite images and when using WSPR when you need better than one
> second accuracy. This program runs as a service and after it has worked out
> the drift in your computer clock it applies constant millisecond corrections

Technically it applies frequency corrections - NTP uses a PLL - it was
designed by an electronics engineer and ham.

> so it is spot on all the time. The time synchronizer built in to Windows XP

Windows is a poor platform for time and, on most other platforms the
reference implementation gives even better time, although there is some
evidence that another open source implementation, chrony, that uses the
same over the wire formats but a different (linear regression based)
mathematical approach, has better behaviour for start up and temperature
change transients, in real world use.  However chrony is only supported
on Linux, and doesn't support local radio reference clocks.

> only syncs the clock once a week which may not be enough on some PCs.

The poll period is configurable, and the Windows 2003 version can be
configured to almost use the proper NTP algorithm.  The reference
implementation is still much better, as it uses various tricks to get
round the fact that Windows only reports time to applications with a
10ms resolution, by default, or 1ms with the fastest multi-media timers.

I would generally ignore the non-open source alternatives as many are
very crude and none are better than the reference implementation, or chrony.

... [show rest of quote]

... [show rest of quote]

I agree with all of that, David. It might also be worth mentioning for the benefit of those considering other alternatives that the last time I recommended this to someone it was a VK ham who had apparently been blocked from accessing his local NTP server because the non-open source software he used polled it too often. Because the NTP software regulates the clock itself it can get by with infrequent checks to the time server, even if the computer clock is quite inaccurate.