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[K3] Tokyo Hy-Power HL-1.2KFX amp interfacing (to ALC or not to ALC?)

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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: [K3] Tokyo Hy-Power HL-1.2KFX amp interfacing (to ALC or not to ALC?)

Administrator

Let's end this thread at this time in the interest of relieving other readers
from overload.

If you feel compelled to continue the CW b/w discussion, please take it to
private email.

73,

Eric
/elecraft.com/

On 3/30/2016 8:18 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

> One could discourse all day on what "proper" is in this context without
> ever a precise consensus among educated gentlemen. At some point of "ugly"
> we would all agree that anything that sounds like that is improper.
>
> When the only stateful levels were strictly on and off, and the rise and
> fall transition time amplitude curves were set by a resistor and a
> capacitor, one could make some simplifications in the discussion.
>
> Today, often, as in the K3, the rise and fall times and shapes of CW are
> DATA which goes DIRECTLY to RF via a DAC. For these the nature of the rise
> and fall curve is not governed by a charge/discharge time of analog
> components, but rather by whatever function generated the waveshape data,
> which is stored, *read* as needed and never generated real time. In many
> cases it is far more accurate to say that the rise and fall of a baud is
> INTRODUCED, rather than the signal is keyed.
>
> If the rise and fall data curves used for "keying" vary their "sharpness"
> according to speed, then the description bandwidth increases by speed
> certainly does apply. But if not, the bandwidth is governed by the pulse
> generated by the rise and fall data, which could be the exact same from 1
> wpm to 40 wpm.
>
> We are so easily diverted into our lifelong, unconscious, and utterly
> habitual analog thinking (note that I certainly do not give myself a free
> pass here).
>
> I was just looking at the P3 display of some traditional BC band stations
> around here. A 30 over 9 station at 1490 kHz fills up 1480 to 1500. Using
> the K3's AM-S mode on USB side the S9 station at 1500 kHz is clearly
> intelligible, but the standard demodulation for 1500 is obliterated by the
> 1490 station. That ain't your granddaddy's AM out there any more. That's
> some really complicated stuff that completely fills up +/- 10 kHz and
> clearly not done the same from station to station. I'm going to save
> googling that for a free evening when I don't have something broken to fix.
>
> There is so much stuff I was taught by my WCTT Chief Engineer Elmer that I
> am having to set aside.
>
>
> 73, Guy K2AV
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 8:28 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 3/30/2016 12:21 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>> Unfortunately the guys who wrote the rules failed to understand the
>>> physics and the math.
>> No Jim, you are wrong here. CW is a carrier modulated by a digital
>> (on/off keyed) signal of a given (baud) rate. That keying will
>> generate sidebands +/- the baud rate *just like FSK* or even AM which
>> can be observed on a spectrum analyzer. The ITU formula is quite
>> accurate in terms of the actual bandwidth for signals with *properly*
>> *shaped keying*.
>>
>> Again, the excess bandwidth from improperly shaped keying signals
>> (clicks) and/or amplifier distortion is something else.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
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Nr4c

Re: [K3] CW Speed & bandwidth (was Tokyo Hy-Power HL-1.2KFX amp interfacing (to ALC or not to ALC?))

In reply to this post by Jim Finan

Yes, indeed it was the "Lady Lex".

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Mar 30, 2016, at 8:34 AM, Jim Finan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I believe that was the 'Lexington'
>
> Jim Finan
> AB4AC
> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
> Original Message
> From: [hidden email]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 10:03 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] CW Speed & bandwidth (was Tokyo Hy-Power HL-1.2KFX amp interfacing (to ALC or not to ALC?))
>
> I thought the Enterprise was lost at the battle of the Coral Sea. Must
> be some sort of time looping going on here.
> Kevin. KD5ONS
>
>> On 3/29/2016 6:52 PM, Dave Cole wrote:
>>> On Tue, 2016-03-29 at 17:42 -0700, Fred Jensen wrote:
>>> Like trying to drive faster than light, discarding angular momentum,
>>> or resigning from Linked-In.
>> WHAT!! I know you are wrong here, else the Enterprise could not work!
>
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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: [K3] CW Speed & bandwidth (was Tokyo Hy-Power HL-1.2KFX amp interfacing (to ALC or not to ALC?))

Administrator

Folks, let's also end this thread.

73,

Eric
Moderator for life.
/elecraft.com/

On 3/30/2016 8:38 AM, Nr4c wrote:
> Yes, indeed it was the "Lady Lex".
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill
>
>

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Jim Brown-10

Re: [K3] Tokyo Hy-Power HL-1.2KFX amp interfacing (to ALC or not to ALC?)

In reply to this post by Guy Olinger K2AV

Guy has it exactly right.

73, Jim K9YC

On Wed,3/30/2016 8:18 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
> If the rise and fall data curves used for "keying" vary their "sharpness"
> according to speed, then the description bandwidth increases by speed
> certainly does apply. But if not, the bandwidth is governed by the pulse
> generated by the rise and fall data, which could be the exact same from 1
> wpm to 40 wpm.
>
> We are so easily diverted into our lifelong, unconscious, and utterly
> habitual analog thinking (note that I certainly do not give myself a free
> pass here).

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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: [K3] Tokyo Hy-Power HL-1.2KFX amp interfacing (to ALC or not to ALC?)

Administrator

Thread has been ended.

Eric
Moderator
/elecraft.com/

On 3/30/2016 9:01 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

> Guy has it exactly right.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On Wed,3/30/2016 8:18 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
>> If the rise and fall data curves used for "keying" vary their "sharpness"
>> according to speed, then the description bandwidth increases by speed
>> certainly does apply. But if not, the bandwidth is governed by the pulse
>> generated by the rise and fall data, which could be the exact same from 1
>> wpm to 40 wpm.
>>
>> We are so easily diverted into our lifelong, unconscious, and utterly
>> habitual analog thinking (note that I certainly do not give myself a free
>> pass here).
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>

Edward R Cole

Re: [K3] Tokyo Hy-Power HL-1.2KFX amp interfacing (to ALC or not to ALC?)

In reply to this post by John Shadle

Read: http://www.comportco.com/~w5alt/cw/cwindex.php?pg=5
"CW Bandwidth" by W5ALT

seems everyone in this debate has some valid points. I found this by
searching on "CW bandwidth".

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
[hidden email]

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