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K3: USB port

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Barry

Re: K3: USB port

Speaking of USB to COM adapters, I recently replaced one due to RF getting in, affecting my CW keying.
The one I bought was an EasySync ES-U-1002-M. It is made for industrial use, is in a nice sturdy metal box, and had 2 serial ports (FTDI chipset). I got it on Ebay for $15.99 + shipping and it works like a charm with no RFI problems (so far).

Don Cunningham

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by K2QI

James,
You may have gotten the older Prolific chipset KUSB. The new ones are FTDI
chipsets and have NO problems with those programs.
73,
Don, WB5HAK

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K2QI

Re: K3: USB port

Don, yes I do recall now that the drivers were for the Prolific chipset.
That cable never worked properly for me, and I ended up ditching it in favor
of a Keyspan which uses the FTDI chipset.

73,
Jim K2QI

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Don Cunningham <[hidden email]>wrote:

> James,
> You may have gotten the older Prolific chipset KUSB. The new ones are FTDI
> chipsets and have NO problems with those programs.
> 73,
> Don, WB5HAK
>

--
73 de James K2QI
President UNARC/4U1UN
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--... ...-- -.. . .--- .- -- . ...

Lu Romero - W4LT

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by K2QI

Since the day it first powered on, my K3, #3192, has
featured full USB radio CAT/keyer support with dual channel
embedded audio I/O. All I need to do is plug a single USB
cable in to any computer for all of this functionality with
any popular logger/rig control software.

Totally painless and plug and play on any recent MS OS, from
Win2k to Win 7, on laptops, desktops and even netbooks
(I've tried them all).

What is it? Its called "The microHAM microKEYER 2" :)

Paperclip reliable, no RF pickup, works with Dynamic or
Electret mics, dual receive compatible for dual RX RTTY,
keys CW, RTTY, PSK, HellScrhiber, THROB, Stream, (in fact,
every digital soundcard mode I have ever tried), built-in
DVK, and CW memories, Two Tone test signals and features a
setup/management GUI you can use to customize it. Dont want
to use the computer? Its also a self contained keyer with a
built in WinKey chip. It also can display your other
VFO/KRX3 frequency in its LCD display when the display on
the K3 is being used for other things, like RIT or CW
Decode. And it "impersonates" a Icom rig, allowing you to
directly interface to things that use the CI-V bus natively;
helpful in my all Icom club environment when I bring in my
K3 to use the microHAM antenna switching system...
everything works just like the 7700 or Pro2's were connected
to the Station Masters without any reprogramming! Just plug
the CI-V cable in and go!

Folks, you've just spent over 3 grand on a high performance
radio... Spend the extra $430 for a high performance
interface to match it, and you will never want to use
anything else.

-lu-w4lt-
K3 # 3192

Message: 11
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 08:28:14 -0500
From: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID:
<[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
format="flowed"

Let me get this straight, and you have NO audio cable from
the K3 to
the computer? And, you're getting audio on the computer
through the
RS-232 cable? So what's the purpose of the "Line IN"/"Line
OUT"
jacks? Is the computer mic 'live' and picking up from the
speaker(s)?

confused, ....bc nr4c

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The Smiths

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

No, that's not the case, but thanks for a good guess none the less. The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic on the computer, which doesn't exist. Furthermore I don't even need to have the volume up on the K3 to see the audio on the scope, and there is NO analog connections to the computer. However, I dont see Post audio effects going on. In otherwords, I can only see pre-Notch etc settings... Guess it's just a voodo rig...

T Smith
SWL

> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:41:31 -0500
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> CC: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>
>
>
> >> I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3
> >> using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on
> >> Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a
> >> voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already
> >> exists?
>
> No, you probably don't realize that Spectrogram uses the default
> audio input device and that Windows systems commonly default to the
> computer's built-in microphone. You are probably getting nothing more
> than "acoustic coupling" between the K3 speaker and the computer's
> mic. This assumes that you have not intentionally configured the
> K3 and computer to use a cable between the K3 Line Out jack and the
> computer's Line In jack and made that the default.
>
> There is no audio connection to the K3 RS-232 port ... read the
> schematics!
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 11/19/2010 12:32 AM, The Smiths wrote:
> >
> > I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists?
> >
> > T Smith
> > SWL
> >
> >> Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:20:33 -0500
> >> From: [hidden email]
> >> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
> >>
> >>
> >> Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace
> >> the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232
> >> converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get
> >> you audio ...
> >>
> >> To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub
> >> and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft
> >> would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do
> >> all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU.
> >>
> >> After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB
> >> to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new
> >> level so support burden - providing operating system specific
> >> drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of
> >> signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version
> >> of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX.
> >> By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and
> >> USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each
> >> chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and
> >> serialize each of those chip!
> >>
> >> After all of that you have not provided any new capability for
> >> the K3. Other than adding at least $100 per unit in hardware,
> >> development, and ongoing support costs the only thing this exercise
> >> will accomplish is to relieve a relatively small number of users
> >> of the need to purchase a KUSB and allow them to keep their sound-
> >> card free for iTUNES. For all the rest, you have increased the
> >> cost of the K3, added an entirely new level of complexity to the
> >> rig, and perhaps required that the user purchase new hardware to
> >> use their rig with computer control.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >>
> >> ... Joe, W4TV
> >>
> >> On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote:
> >>> Hello group,
> >>>
> >>> I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had
> >>> considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3,
> >>> including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009:
> >>>
> >>> "The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB
> >>> rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this.
> >>>
> >>> The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still
> >>> using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can
> >>> use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O
> >>> performance between the two methods. "
> >>>
> >>> Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything
> >>> more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for
> >>> everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry
> >>> all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now,
> >>> I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate
> >>> stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup,
> >>> but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to
> >>> computer.
> >>>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: K3: USB port

Administrator

In reply to this post by The Smiths

Most likely this is being picked up by the internal/external microphone
on your PC. We only ship digital control data out the RS-232 port on the K3.

73, Eric WA6HHQ
www.elecraft.com
---

On 11/18/2010 9:32 PM, The Smiths wrote:
> I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists?
>
> T Smith
> SWL
>
>
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by The Smiths

> The audio is coming through the USB audio input.

Now you're changing the story. In the previous e-mail you
said "RS-232" input - now you say USB.

Since the K3 has *NO* USB input or output, you obviously
have something connected to the Line Out/Line In. In any
case, you've proven how incredibly unreliable you are -
and you still don't bother to sign your e-mail with a
NAME AND CALLSIGN as required by the list policies.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 11/19/2010 2:27 PM, The Smiths wrote:

>
> No, that's not the case, but thanks for a good guess none the less. The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic on the computer, which doesn't exist. Furthermore I don't even need to have the volume up on the K3 to see the audio on the scope, and there is NO analog connections to the computer. However, I dont see Post audio effects going on. In otherwords, I can only see pre-Notch etc settings... Guess it's just a voodo rig...
>
> T Smith
> SWL
>
>
>> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:41:31 -0500
>> From: [hidden email]
>> To: [hidden email]
>> CC: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>>
>>
>>
>>>> I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3
>>>> using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on
>>>> Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a
>>>> voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already
>>>> exists?
>>
>> No, you probably don't realize that Spectrogram uses the default
>> audio input device and that Windows systems commonly default to the
>> computer's built-in microphone. You are probably getting nothing more
>> than "acoustic coupling" between the K3 speaker and the computer's
>> mic. This assumes that you have not intentionally configured the
>> K3 and computer to use a cable between the K3 Line Out jack and the
>> computer's Line In jack and made that the default.
>>
>> There is no audio connection to the K3 RS-232 port ... read the
>> schematics!
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 11/19/2010 12:32 AM, The Smiths wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists?
>>>
>>> T Smith
>>> SWL
>>>
>>>> Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:20:33 -0500
>>>> From: [hidden email]
>>>> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace
>>>> the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232
>>>> converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get
>>>> you audio ...
>>>>
>>>> To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub
>>>> and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft
>>>> would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do
>>>> all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU.
>>>>
>>>> After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB
>>>> to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new
>>>> level so support burden - providing operating system specific
>>>> drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of
>>>> signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version
>>>> of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX.
>>>> By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and
>>>> USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each
>>>> chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and
>>>> serialize each of those chip!
>>>>
>>>> After all of that you have not provided any new capability for
>>>> the K3. Other than adding at least $100 per unit in hardware,
>>>> development, and ongoing support costs the only thing this exercise
>>>> will accomplish is to relieve a relatively small number of users
>>>> of the need to purchase a KUSB and allow them to keep their sound-
>>>> card free for iTUNES. For all the rest, you have increased the
>>>> cost of the K3, added an entirely new level of complexity to the
>>>> rig, and perhaps required that the user purchase new hardware to
>>>> use their rig with computer control.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>>
>>>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>>>
>>>> On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote:
>>>>> Hello group,
>>>>>
>>>>> I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had
>>>>> considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3,
>>>>> including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009:
>>>>>
>>>>> "The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB
>>>>> rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this.
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still
>>>>> using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can
>>>>> use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O
>>>>> performance between the two methods. "
>>>>>
>>>>> Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything
>>>>> more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for
>>>>> everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry
>>>>> all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now,
>>>>> I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate
>>>>> stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup,
>>>>> but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to
>>>>> computer.
>>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>

The Smiths

Re: K3: USB port

"The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic on the computer,"

That's right Joe, Once again you mis quote me. But then again, you have to in order to make your point. Maybe your computer doesn't have a USB input, but mine does. Perhaps you don't use a K3USB adapter cable, but I have. Your insults and personal attacts do nothing for you on the reflector. Why don't you keep that kind of thing off the reflector where it belongs.

T. Smith
Short Wave Listener.

> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:15:16 -0500
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> CC: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>
>
> > The audio is coming through the USB audio input.
>
> Now you're changing the story. In the previous e-mail you
> said "RS-232" input - now you say USB.
>
> Since the K3 has *NO* USB input or output, you obviously
> have something connected to the Line Out/Line In. In any
> case, you've proven how incredibly unreliable you are -
> and you still don't bother to sign your e-mail with a
> NAME AND CALLSIGN as required by the list policies.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 11/19/2010 2:27 PM, The Smiths wrote:
> >
> > No, that's not the case, but thanks for a good guess none the less. The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic on the computer, which doesn't exist. Furthermore I don't even need to have the volume up on the K3 to see the audio on the scope, and there is NO analog connections to the computer. However, I dont see Post audio effects going on. In otherwords, I can only see pre-Notch etc settings... Guess it's just a voodo rig...
> >
> > T Smith
> > SWL
> >
> >
> >> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:41:31 -0500
> >> From: [hidden email]
> >> To: [hidden email]
> >> CC: [hidden email]
> >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>> I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3
> >>>> using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on
> >>>> Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a
> >>>> voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already
> >>>> exists?
> >>
> >> No, you probably don't realize that Spectrogram uses the default
> >> audio input device and that Windows systems commonly default to the
> >> computer's built-in microphone. You are probably getting nothing more
> >> than "acoustic coupling" between the K3 speaker and the computer's
> >> mic. This assumes that you have not intentionally configured the
> >> K3 and computer to use a cable between the K3 Line Out jack and the
> >> computer's Line In jack and made that the default.
> >>
> >> There is no audio connection to the K3 RS-232 port ... read the
> >> schematics!
> >>
> >> 73,
> >>
> >> ... Joe, W4TV
> >>
> >>
> >> On 11/19/2010 12:32 AM, The Smiths wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists?
> >>>
> >>> T Smith
> >>> SWL
> >>>
> >>>> Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:20:33 -0500
> >>>> From: [hidden email]
> >>>> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace
> >>>> the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232
> >>>> converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get
> >>>> you audio ...
> >>>>
> >>>> To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub
> >>>> and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft
> >>>> would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do
> >>>> all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU.
> >>>>
> >>>> After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB
> >>>> to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new
> >>>> level so support burden - providing operating system specific
> >>>> drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of
> >>>> signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version
> >>>> of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX.
> >>>> By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and
> >>>> USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each
> >>>> chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and
> >>>> serialize each of those chip!
> >>>>
> >>>> After all of that you have not provided any new capability for
> >>>> the K3. Other than adding at least $100 per unit in hardware,
> >>>> development, and ongoing support costs the only thing this exercise
> >>>> will accomplish is to relieve a relatively small number of users
> >>>> of the need to purchase a KUSB and allow them to keep their sound-
> >>>> card free for iTUNES. For all the rest, you have increased the
> >>>> cost of the K3, added an entirely new level of complexity to the
> >>>> rig, and perhaps required that the user purchase new hardware to
> >>>> use their rig with computer control.
> >>>>
> >>>> 73,
> >>>>
> >>>> ... Joe, W4TV
> >>>>
> >>>> On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote:
> >>>>> Hello group,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had
> >>>>> considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3,
> >>>>> including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB
> >>>>> rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still
> >>>>> using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can
> >>>>> use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O
> >>>>> performance between the two methods. "
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything
> >>>>> more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for
> >>>>> everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry
> >>>>> all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now,
> >>>>> I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate
> >>>>> stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup,
> >>>>> but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to
> >>>>> computer.
> >>>>>
> >>>> ______________________________________________________________
> >>>> Elecraft mailing list
> >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>>>
> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>>
> >

Julian, G4ILO

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by Dan Copeland

I would like to think that as hams we were technologically savvy enough not to just want change for change's sake. Unless you have a laptop for the shack PC (in which case the question "why?" springs to mind) there is no problem with using RS232. I have a 4 port serial card in my shack PC and all of them are used. This leaves my USB ports free for things they really are needed for, such as 3 external USB sound cards (yes I have 4 radios connected up to my shack PC - try doing that with a laptop. And yes, I am an old timer.)

Having an RS232 port does not deny those who want to use USB from doing so. It just means the cable you use isn't a passive cable but has a bulge at one end with the USB interface chips in it. RS232 also gives you the option of using nice one USB cable interface options like the MicroHam products if that better meets your needs. It's about giving people choices about how they interface their radios instead of assuming that they just want to connect it to a PC. What is so bad about that?

Dan Copeland wrote

I can understand why a lot of old timers want to stay with serial port for
the K3.
Many people just don't like change. The simple fact is the world has moved
on
Something like 15 years ago. USB is the standard and a product like the K3
which
In many ways is cutting edge should move on also.

When was the last time you saw a new computer with serial port or a floppy
drive?
It can't be that hard to change to USB. There are plenty of $10 items that
support it
So it must be cheep. I figure it is a lack of will on Elecraft's part.

As to the negative comments...Can't and won't never did anything.

Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by Lu Romero - W4LT

I have another solution (sort of tongue-in-cheek) for those who want
the USB directly on the K3 rather than converting it to serial out of
the computer.
Attach the serial end of the USB to serial adapter permanently into the
K3 RS-232 connector, and if you need more cable to make the run to the
computer, just use a USB extension cable.

On a more practical side, it permits use of the SteppIR Y cable, or any
other device that is similarly designed to listen in on the RS-232
communication, I think that is a solution to answer all needs - many K3
owners also run the SteppIR, and I hope they are not among those who
clamor for native USB support in the K3. Those who want to use USB can
then connect between the computer and the K3 (via the captive adapter)
with a USB cable, and those who are more inclined to not mind running an
RS-232 cable can do so easily by connecting their USB to serial adapter
directly to the computer.

I think this is more in the choice of cable than it is an RS-232/USB
question - Yes, if the K3 has a native USB port it brings along all its
problems - see the W4TV post. RS-232 is not device dependent, USB IS
device dependent, and that is the real difference.

I see the problem as a computer problem (no RS-232 ports), and NOT a K3
problem (there are good adapters available).
When the "Universal" Serial Bus becomes actually universal, and not
device dependent, I will likely change my mind, but right now, the only
really Universal Serial Bus is the RS-232 serial port. Your definition
of "Universal" may vary from mine.

Until the support code for generating RS-232 signals disappears from
operating systems, I will continue to use them - I think desktops are
more suitable for the hamshack computer than a laptop - they are less
expensive and more reliable -as an example of one with 2 serial ports,
see the
IBM ThinkCentre M52 9210 Desktop Computer for $179.95 at
Tigerdirect.com, Add a monitor for $100 and you have a dedicated
hamshack computer with real serial ports.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/19/2010 2:20 PM, Lu Romero wrote:

> Since the day it first powered on, my K3, #3192, has
> featured full USB radio CAT/keyer support with dual channel
> embedded audio I/O. All I need to do is plug a single USB
> cable in to any computer for all of this functionality with
> any popular logger/rig control software.
>
> Totally painless and plug and play on any recent MS OS, from
> Win2k to Win 7, on laptops, desktops and even netbooks
> (I've tried them all).
>
> What is it? Its called "The microHAM microKEYER 2" :)
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by The Smiths

>
> That's right Joe, Once again you mis quote me.

No, I quoted you directly. It was a cut/paste from your own post.
As long as you change your story and post claims that are completely
impossible your postings can not be trusted.

Why don't you stop causing trouble here and post your full name
and the serial number of your K3 so Eric can confirm the information
rather than hide behind a "T. Smith" and a "hotmail" account.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 11/19/2010 4:27 PM, The Smiths wrote:

>
> "The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic on the computer,"
>
> That's right Joe, Once again you mis quote me. But then again, you have to in order to make your point. Maybe your computer doesn't have a USB input, but mine does. Perhaps you don't use a K3USB adapter cable, but I have. Your insults and personal attacts do nothing for you on the reflector. Why don't you keep that kind of thing off the reflector where it belongs.
>
> T. Smith
> Short Wave Listener.
>
>
>
>> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:15:16 -0500
>> From: [hidden email]
>> To: [hidden email]
>> CC: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>>
>>
>>> The audio is coming through the USB audio input.
>>
>> Now you're changing the story. In the previous e-mail you
>> said "RS-232" input - now you say USB.
>>
>> Since the K3 has *NO* USB input or output, you obviously
>> have something connected to the Line Out/Line In. In any
>> case, you've proven how incredibly unreliable you are -
>> and you still don't bother to sign your e-mail with a
>> NAME AND CALLSIGN as required by the list policies.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 11/19/2010 2:27 PM, The Smiths wrote:
>>>
>>> No, that's not the case, but thanks for a good guess none the less. The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic on the computer, which doesn't exist. Furthermore I don't even need to have the volume up on the K3 to see the audio on the scope, and there is NO analog connections to the computer. However, I dont see Post audio effects going on. In otherwords, I can only see pre-Notch etc settings... Guess it's just a voodo rig...
>>>
>>> T Smith
>>> SWL
>>>
>>>
>>>> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:41:31 -0500
>>>> From: [hidden email]
>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>> CC: [hidden email]
>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3
>>>>>> using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on
>>>>>> Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a
>>>>>> voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already
>>>>>> exists?
>>>>
>>>> No, you probably don't realize that Spectrogram uses the default
>>>> audio input device and that Windows systems commonly default to the
>>>> computer's built-in microphone. You are probably getting nothing more
>>>> than "acoustic coupling" between the K3 speaker and the computer's
>>>> mic. This assumes that you have not intentionally configured the
>>>> K3 and computer to use a cable between the K3 Line Out jack and the
>>>> computer's Line In jack and made that the default.
>>>>
>>>> There is no audio connection to the K3 RS-232 port ... read the
>>>> schematics!
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>>
>>>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/19/2010 12:32 AM, The Smiths wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists?
>>>>>
>>>>> T Smith
>>>>> SWL
>>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:20:33 -0500
>>>>>> From: [hidden email]
>>>>>> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace
>>>>>> the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232
>>>>>> converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get
>>>>>> you audio ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub
>>>>>> and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft
>>>>>> would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do
>>>>>> all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB
>>>>>> to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new
>>>>>> level so support burden - providing operating system specific
>>>>>> drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of
>>>>>> signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version
>>>>>> of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX.
>>>>>> By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and
>>>>>> USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each
>>>>>> chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and
>>>>>> serialize each of those chip!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After all of that you have not provided any new capability for
>>>>>> the K3. Other than adding at least $100 per unit in hardware,
>>>>>> development, and ongoing support costs the only thing this exercise
>>>>>> will accomplish is to relieve a relatively small number of users
>>>>>> of the need to purchase a KUSB and allow them to keep their sound-
>>>>>> card free for iTUNES. For all the rest, you have increased the
>>>>>> cost of the K3, added an entirely new level of complexity to the
>>>>>> rig, and perhaps required that the user purchase new hardware to
>>>>>> use their rig with computer control.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 73,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello group,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had
>>>>>>> considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3,
>>>>>>> including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB
>>>>>>> rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still
>>>>>>> using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can
>>>>>>> use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O
>>>>>>> performance between the two methods. "
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything
>>>>>>> more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for
>>>>>>> everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry
>>>>>>> all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now,
>>>>>>> I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate
>>>>>>> stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup,
>>>>>>> but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to
>>>>>>> computer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>>
>>>
>

Steve Ellington

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by The Smiths

Oh it's the Smiths again!

His call is N6MQL, Michael Aretsky.
Please identify yourself with your callsign or at least your real name.

N4LQ
Steve

----- Original Message -----
From: "The Smiths" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port

>
> "The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic
> on the computer,"
>
> That's right Joe, Once again you mis quote me. But then again, you have to
> in order to make your point. Maybe your computer doesn't have a USB
> input, but mine does. Perhaps you don't use a K3USB adapter cable, but I
> have. Your insults and personal attacts do nothing for you on the
> reflector. Why don't you keep that kind of thing off the reflector where
> it belongs.
>
> T. Smith
> Short Wave Listener.
>
>
>
>> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:15:16 -0500
>> From: [hidden email]
>> To: [hidden email]
>> CC: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>>
>>
>> > The audio is coming through the USB audio input.
>>
>> Now you're changing the story. In the previous e-mail you
>> said "RS-232" input - now you say USB.
>>
>> Since the K3 has *NO* USB input or output, you obviously
>> have something connected to the Line Out/Line In. In any
>> case, you've proven how incredibly unreliable you are -
>> and you still don't bother to sign your e-mail with a
>> NAME AND CALLSIGN as required by the list policies.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 11/19/2010 2:27 PM, The Smiths wrote:
>> >
>> > No, that's not the case, but thanks for a good guess none the less. The
>> > audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic on
>> > the computer, which doesn't exist. Furthermore I don't even need to
>> > have the volume up on the K3 to see the audio on the scope, and there
>> > is NO analog connections to the computer. However, I dont see Post
>> > audio effects going on. In otherwords, I can only see pre-Notch etc
>> > settings... Guess it's just a voodo rig...
>> >
>> > T Smith
>> > SWL
>> >
>> >
>> >> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:41:31 -0500
>> >> From: [hidden email]
>> >> To: [hidden email]
>> >> CC: [hidden email]
>> >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>> I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3
>> >>>> using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on
>> >>>> Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a
>> >>>> voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already
>> >>>> exists?
>> >>
>> >> No, you probably don't realize that Spectrogram uses the default
>> >> audio input device and that Windows systems commonly default to the
>> >> computer's built-in microphone. You are probably getting nothing more
>> >> than "acoustic coupling" between the K3 speaker and the computer's
>> >> mic. This assumes that you have not intentionally configured the
>> >> K3 and computer to use a cable between the K3 Line Out jack and the
>> >> computer's Line In jack and made that the default.
>> >>
>> >> There is no audio connection to the K3 RS-232 port ... read the
>> >> schematics!
>> >>
>> >> 73,
>> >>
>> >> ... Joe, W4TV
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 11/19/2010 12:32 AM, The Smiths wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3
>> >>> using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram
>> >>> and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or
>> >>> is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists?
>> >>>
>> >>> T Smith
>> >>> SWL
>> >>>
>> >>>> Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:20:33 -0500
>> >>>> From: [hidden email]
>> >>>> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace
>> >>>> the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232
>> >>>> converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get
>> >>>> you audio ...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub
>> >>>> and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft
>> >>>> would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do
>> >>>> all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB
>> >>>> to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new
>> >>>> level so support burden - providing operating system specific
>> >>>> drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of
>> >>>> signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version
>> >>>> of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX.
>> >>>> By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and
>> >>>> USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each
>> >>>> chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and
>> >>>> serialize each of those chip!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> After all of that you have not provided any new capability for
>> >>>> the K3. Other than adding at least $100 per unit in hardware,
>> >>>> development, and ongoing support costs the only thing this exercise
>> >>>> will accomplish is to relieve a relatively small number of users
>> >>>> of the need to purchase a KUSB and allow them to keep their sound-
>> >>>> card free for iTUNES. For all the rest, you have increased the
>> >>>> cost of the K3, added an entirely new level of complexity to the
>> >>>> rig, and perhaps required that the user purchase new hardware to
>> >>>> use their rig with computer control.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 73,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ... Joe, W4TV
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote:
>> >>>>> Hello group,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had
>> >>>>> considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the
>> >>>>> K3,
>> >>>>> including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> "The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has
>> >>>>> USB
>> >>>>> rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still
>> >>>>> using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB
>> >>>>> can
>> >>>>> use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in
>> >>>>> I/O
>> >>>>> performance between the two methods. "
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard
>> >>>>> anything
>> >>>>> more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not
>> >>>>> for
>> >>>>> everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability
>> >>>>> to carry
>> >>>>> all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient.
>> >>>>> Right now,
>> >>>>> I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two
>> >>>>> separate
>> >>>>> stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that
>> >>>>> setup,
>> >>>>> but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from
>> >>>>> computer to
>> >>>>> computer.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________
>> >>>> Elecraft mailing list
>> >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> >>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> >>>
>> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: K3: USB port [Thread has been officially ended.]

Administrator

Folks - this thread has been officially ended. Please honor that request.

In general, all of these posts, by parties criticizing one another
personally, are inappropriate.

73, Eric
Elecraft List Moderator
====

On 11/19/2010 3:06 PM, Steve Ellington wrote:

> Oh it's the Smiths again!
>
> His call is N6MQL, Michael Aretsky.
> Please identify yourself with your callsign or at least your real name.
>
> N4LQ
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "The Smiths"<[hidden email]>
> To:<[hidden email]>
> Cc: "Elecraft Reflector"<[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 4:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>
>
>> "The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic
>> on the computer,"
>>
>> That's right Joe, Once again you mis quote me. But then again, you have to
>> in order to make your point. Maybe your computer doesn't have a USB
>> input, but mine does. Perhaps you don't use a K3USB adapter cable, but I
>> have. Your insults and personal attacts do nothing for you on the
>> reflector. Why don't you keep that kind of thing off the reflector where
>> it belongs.
>>
>> T. Smith
>> Short Wave Listener.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:15:16 -0500
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> CC: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>>>
>>>
>>>> The audio is coming through the USB audio input.
>>> Now you're changing the story. In the previous e-mail you
>>> said "RS-232" input - now you say USB.
>>>
>>> Since the K3 has *NO* USB input or output, you obviously
>>> have something connected to the Line Out/Line In. In any
>>> case, you've proven how incredibly unreliable you are -
>>> and you still don't bother to sign your e-mail with a
>>> NAME AND CALLSIGN as required by the list policies.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/19/2010 2:27 PM, The Smiths wrote:
>>>> No, that's not the case, but thanks for a good guess none the less. The
>>>> audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic on
>>>> the computer, which doesn't exist. Furthermore I don't even need to
>>>> have the volume up on the K3 to see the audio on the scope, and there
>>>> is NO analog connections to the computer. However, I dont see Post
>>>> audio effects going on. In otherwords, I can only see pre-Notch etc
>>>> settings... Guess it's just a voodo rig...
>>>>
>>>> T Smith
>>>> SWL
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:41:31 -0500
>>>>> From: [hidden email]
>>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>>> CC: [hidden email]
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3
>>>>>>> using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on
>>>>>>> Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a
>>>>>>> voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already
>>>>>>> exists?
>>>>> No, you probably don't realize that Spectrogram uses the default
>>>>> audio input device and that Windows systems commonly default to the
>>>>> computer's built-in microphone. You are probably getting nothing more
>>>>> than "acoustic coupling" between the K3 speaker and the computer's
>>>>> mic. This assumes that you have not intentionally configured the
>>>>> K3 and computer to use a cable between the K3 Line Out jack and the
>>>>> computer's Line In jack and made that the default.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no audio connection to the K3 RS-232 port ... read the
>>>>> schematics!
>>>>>
>>>>> 73,
>>>>>
>>>>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/19/2010 12:32 AM, The Smiths wrote:
>>>>>> I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3
>>>>>> using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram
>>>>>> and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or
>>>>>> is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> T Smith
>>>>>> SWL
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:20:33 -0500
>>>>>>> From: [hidden email]
>>>>>>> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace
>>>>>>> the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232
>>>>>>> converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get
>>>>>>> you audio ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub
>>>>>>> and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft
>>>>>>> would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do
>>>>>>> all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB
>>>>>>> to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new
>>>>>>> level so support burden - providing operating system specific
>>>>>>> drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of
>>>>>>> signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version
>>>>>>> of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX.
>>>>>>> By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and
>>>>>>> USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each
>>>>>>> chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and
>>>>>>> serialize each of those chip!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After all of that you have not provided any new capability for
>>>>>>> the K3. Other than adding at least $100 per unit in hardware,
>>>>>>> development, and ongoing support costs the only thing this exercise
>>>>>>> will accomplish is to relieve a relatively small number of users
>>>>>>> of the need to purchase a KUSB and allow them to keep their sound-
>>>>>>> card free for iTUNES. For all the rest, you have increased the
>>>>>>> cost of the K3, added an entirely new level of complexity to the
>>>>>>> rig, and perhaps required that the user purchase new hardware to
>>>>>>> use their rig with computer control.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 73,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello group,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had
>>>>>>>> considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the
>>>>>>>> K3,
>>>>>>>> including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has
>>>>>>>> USB
>>>>>>>> rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still
>>>>>>>> using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in
>>>>>>>> I/O
>>>>>>>> performance between the two methods. "
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard
>>>>>>>> anything
>>>>>>>> more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability
>>>>>>>> to carry
>>>>>>>> all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient.
>>>>>>>> Right now,
>>>>>>>> I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two
>>>>>>>> separate
>>>>>>>> stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that
>>>>>>>> setup,
>>>>>>>> but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from
>>>>>>>> computer to
>>>>>>>> computer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Jim Cox

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by Steve Ellington

Amen.....

Jim K4JAF

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ellington" <[hidden email]>
To: "The Smiths" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port

> Oh it's the Smiths again!
>
> His call is N6MQL, Michael Aretsky.
> Please identify yourself with your callsign or at least your real name.
>
> N4LQ
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "The Smiths" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 4:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>
>
>>
>> "The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic
>> on the computer,"
>>
>> That's right Joe, Once again you mis quote me. But then again, you have
>> to
>> in order to make your point. Maybe your computer doesn't have a USB
>> input, but mine does. Perhaps you don't use a K3USB adapter cable, but I
>> have. Your insults and personal attacts do nothing for you on the
>> reflector. Why don't you keep that kind of thing off the reflector where
>> it belongs.
>>
>> T. Smith
>> Short Wave Listener.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:15:16 -0500
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> CC: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>>>
>>>
>>> > The audio is coming through the USB audio input.
>>>
>>> Now you're changing the story. In the previous e-mail you
>>> said "RS-232" input - now you say USB.
>>>
>>> Since the K3 has *NO* USB input or output, you obviously
>>> have something connected to the Line Out/Line In. In any
>>> case, you've proven how incredibly unreliable you are -
>>> and you still don't bother to sign your e-mail with a
>>> NAME AND CALLSIGN as required by the list policies.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/19/2010 2:27 PM, The Smiths wrote:
>>> >
>>> > No, that's not the case, but thanks for a good guess none the less.
>>> > The
>>> > audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic
>>> > on
>>> > the computer, which doesn't exist. Furthermore I don't even need to
>>> > have the volume up on the K3 to see the audio on the scope, and there
>>> > is NO analog connections to the computer. However, I dont see Post
>>> > audio effects going on. In otherwords, I can only see pre-Notch etc
>>> > settings... Guess it's just a voodo rig...
>>> >
>>> > T Smith
>>> > SWL
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:41:31 -0500
>>> >> From: [hidden email]
>>> >> To: [hidden email]
>>> >> CC: [hidden email]
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>> I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3
>>> >>>> using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on
>>> >>>> Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a
>>> >>>> voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already
>>> >>>> exists?
>>> >>
>>> >> No, you probably don't realize that Spectrogram uses the default
>>> >> audio input device and that Windows systems commonly default to the
>>> >> computer's built-in microphone. You are probably getting nothing more
>>> >> than "acoustic coupling" between the K3 speaker and the computer's
>>> >> mic. This assumes that you have not intentionally configured the
>>> >> K3 and computer to use a cable between the K3 Line Out jack and the
>>> >> computer's Line In jack and made that the default.
>>> >>
>>> >> There is no audio connection to the K3 RS-232 port ... read the
>>> >> schematics!
>>> >>
>>> >> 73,
>>> >>
>>> >> ... Joe, W4TV
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On 11/19/2010 12:32 AM, The Smiths wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3
>>> >>> using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on
>>> >>> Spectrogram
>>> >>> and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or
>>> >>> is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> T Smith
>>> >>> SWL
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:20:33 -0500
>>> >>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> >>>> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace
>>> >>>> the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232
>>> >>>> converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get
>>> >>>> you audio ...
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub
>>> >>>> and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft
>>> >>>> would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do
>>> >>>> all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB
>>> >>>> to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new
>>> >>>> level so support burden - providing operating system specific
>>> >>>> drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of
>>> >>>> signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version
>>> >>>> of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX.
>>> >>>> By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and
>>> >>>> USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each
>>> >>>> chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and
>>> >>>> serialize each of those chip!
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> After all of that you have not provided any new capability for
>>> >>>> the K3. Other than adding at least $100 per unit in hardware,
>>> >>>> development, and ongoing support costs the only thing this exercise
>>> >>>> will accomplish is to relieve a relatively small number of users
>>> >>>> of the need to purchase a KUSB and allow them to keep their sound-
>>> >>>> card free for iTUNES. For all the rest, you have increased the
>>> >>>> cost of the K3, added an entirely new level of complexity to the
>>> >>>> rig, and perhaps required that the user purchase new hardware to
>>> >>>> use their rig with computer control.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> 73,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote:
>>> >>>>> Hello group,
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had
>>> >>>>> considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for
>>> >>>>> the
>>> >>>>> K3,
>>> >>>>> including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> "The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has
>>> >>>>> USB
>>> >>>>> rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are
>>> >>>>> still
>>> >>>>> using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB
>>> >>>>> can
>>> >>>>> use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in
>>> >>>>> I/O
>>> >>>>> performance between the two methods. "
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard
>>> >>>>> anything
>>> >>>>> more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's
>>> >>>>> not
>>> >>>>> for
>>> >>>>> everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability
>>> >>>>> to carry
>>> >>>>> all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient.
>>> >>>>> Right now,
>>> >>>>> I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two
>>> >>>>> separate
>>> >>>>> stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with
>>> >>>>> that
>>> >>>>> setup,
>>> >>>>> but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from
>>> >>>>> computer to
>>> >>>>> computer.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> >>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> >>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> >>>
>>> >
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Igor Sokolov-2

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

I dare to argue with the below statement. I see several advantages in using
laptop in the hamshack.
They require less space
They are usually less noisy both electrically and acoustically
They do not need separate UPS
And they are not that expensive after all. 1.6 GHz Atom processor netbook
can be had for around 300 USD here and more then enough for everything
needed in the hamshack (unless you need it for Skimmer or SDR)
That does not mean that I support switching from RS232 to USB. I have Expert
1K-FA that is wired to listen on RS232 of my K3. Therefore I prefer we stay
with RS232 for the time being.

73, Igor UA9CDC

> operating systems, I will continue to use them - I think desktops are
> more suitable for the hamshack computer than a laptop - they are less
> expensive and more reliable -as an example of one with 2 serial ports,
> see the

>73,
>Don W3FPR

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3: USB port

Igor,

I would agree if I could use the laptop's keyboard, but if I use a
laptop with a standard (external) keyboard and mouse, the laptop takes
up more desk space than a desktop.

If you would choose a tower configuration desktop and place it on the
floor under the desk (or mount the low profile desktop vertically), then
the monitor, keyboard and mouse take up less real estate than a laptop.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/19/2010 11:03 PM, Igor Sokolov wrote:

> I dare to argue with the below statement. I see several advantages in using
> laptop in the hamshack.
> They require less space
> They are usually less noisy both electrically and acoustically
> They do not need separate UPS
> And they are not that expensive after all. 1.6 GHz Atom processor netbook
> can be had for around 300 USD here and more then enough for everything
> needed in the hamshack (unless you need it for Skimmer or SDR)
> That does not mean that I support switching from RS232 to USB. I have Expert
> 1K-FA that is wired to listen on RS232 of my K3. Therefore I prefer we stay
> with RS232 for the time being.
>
> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>

n7ws

Re: K3: USB port

I kind of do both. I have a laptop on a shelf above the radios. I use the screen as a secondary monitor, although it's literally a pain in the neck to do so.

Then I have a wireless keyboard/mouse on the desk along with a another monitor. So in essence I have a similar setup, except mine keeps running for a few hours if the power fails. The K3 is on a 100 AH AGM battery so it keeps on ticking too.

If I want to operate portable, the laptop is ready to go with all of the software needed and an up-to-date log.

Wes Stewart N7WS

--- On Fri, 11/19/10, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
M

> Igor,
>
> I would agree if I could use the laptop's keyboard, but if
> I use a
> laptop with a standard (external) keyboard and mouse, the
> laptop takes
> up more desk space than a desktop.
>
> If you would choose a tower configuration desktop and place
> it on the
> floor under the desk (or mount the low profile desktop
> vertically), then
> the monitor, keyboard and mouse take up less real estate
> than a laptop.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 11/19/2010 11:03 PM, Igor Sokolov wrote:
> > I dare to argue with the below statement. I see
> several advantages in using
> > laptop in the hamshack.
> > They require less space
> > They are usually less noisy both electrically and
> acoustically
> > They do not need separate UPS
> > And they are not that expensive after all. 1.6 GHz
> Atom processor netbook
> > can be had for around 300 USD here and more then
> enough for everything
> > needed in the hamshack (unless you need it for Skimmer
> or SDR)
> > That does not mean that I support switching from RS232
> to USB. I have Expert
> > 1K-FA that is wired to listen on RS232 of my K3.
> Therefore I prefer we stay
> > with RS232 for the time being.
> >
> > 73, Igor UA9CDC
>

Byron N6NUL

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I have another solution (sort of tongue-in-cheek) for those who want
> the USB directly on the K3 rather than converting it to serial out of
> the computer.

Or go wireless! Heh.

http://www.aircable.net/products/serial5.php

73, Byron N6NUL
(trying to be funny, probably failing)
--
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011
- www.cqp.org
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K2QI

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Hi Don,

Without deviating too far from the current discourse at hand, the reason I was interested in any USB developments related more to DXpeditions and the amount of gear required to facilitate PC connections. To me, reducing the amount of items needed that could potentially be forgotten, lost, or broken could make or break an event.

Sure, the K3 works superbly with its current KIO3 configuration, but what if the laptops or computers brought don't have a serial port, or the adapter breaks, or if audio patch cables get lost in transit? A USB interface and cable that provides all necessary data and audio would be ideal in such a situation.

Anyway, this was the only reason I was curious.

Tnx,
Jim K2QI
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
Sender: [hidden email]
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 23:19:19
To: <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port

Igor,

I would agree if I could use the laptop's keyboard, but if I use a
laptop with a standard (external) keyboard and mouse, the laptop takes
up more desk space than a desktop.

If you would choose a tower configuration desktop and place it on the
floor under the desk (or mount the low profile desktop vertically), then
the monitor, keyboard and mouse take up less real estate than a laptop.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/19/2010 11:03 PM, Igor Sokolov wrote:

______________________________________________________________
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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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--... ...-- -.. . .--- .- -- . ...

Barry

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

I use a laptop with an external keyboard, wireless mouse, and external monitor. Besides being space-saving, using the same computer when I travel, it saves the hassle of updating files files back and forth between computers. I simply unplug the USB hub, video connector and power supply from the computer, and I'm on my way.
Barry W2UP

Don Wilhelm-4 wrote

I would agree if I could use the laptop's keyboard, but if I use a
laptop with a standard (external) keyboard and mouse, the laptop takes
up more desk space than a desktop.

If you would choose a tower configuration desktop and place it on the
floor under the desk (or mount the low profile desktop vertically), then
the monitor, keyboard and mouse take up less real estate than a laptop.

73,
Don W3FPR

123