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K3: Why can't I use my 1.8kHz filter for SSB TX?

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K1LI

K3: Why can't I use my 1.8kHz filter for SSB TX?

I've searched the archives and found that use of a filter other than 2.7kHz
for SSB TX seems to be forbidden. One selects a "non-standard" filter for
ESSB; why can' t this filter be the 2.1kHz or 1.8kHz filter?

--
73 -- Brian -- K1LI
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juergen piezo

Re: [Elecraft] K3: Why can't I use my 1.8kHz filter for SSB TX?

Hi Brian

I would also like to know the answer as well.

Its a feature that works well on the Icom PRO radios. You can narrow the TX bandwidth and produce very penetrating audio without playing around all day with mic EQ settings. In fact most cheap mics can be made to sound pretty decent when transmitting through a narrow bandwidth filter. I am surprised that variable TX bandwidth is not a feature on the K3 yet.

Another feature that works well is the Kenwood High Boost. This feature is found on the TS870S, TS850S and the TS480. This high boost can brighten most microphones without playing with a TX EQ all day. Its very effective on 75 meters on SSB for cutting through QRN. It certainly sounds better than the excessive bass and ESSB audio that people torture your ears with.

ESSB station who call people in the DX window with the excessive bassy audio should be put up against the wall and shot for torturing other people.

I have found the K3's DSP filter on 1.5KHZ bandwidth to be very effective. We just need people that use communications quality audio for this filter bandwidth. The Heil HC4 and HC5 are fantastic microphones for DX work on the K3.

John

--- On Sat, 1/23/10, Brian Machesney <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Brian Machesney <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3: Why can't I use my 1.8kHz filter for SSB TX?
> To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Saturday, January 23, 2010, 7:59 PM
> I've searched the archives and found
> that use of a filter other than 2.7kHz
> for SSB TX seems to be forbidden. One selects a
> "non-standard" filter for
> ESSB; why can' t this filter be the 2.1kHz or 1.8kHz
> filter?
>
> --
> 73 -- Brian -- K1LI
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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K1LI

Re: [Elecraft] K3: Why can't I use my 1.8kHz filter for SSB TX?

In reply to this post by K1LI

Yes, I did search the archives to find out "why you can transmit through
some filters and not through others" before posting this question to the
reflector. The only "authoritative" information I found information was this
from July 2008:

"Until further information to the contrary is available from Elecraft, you
must select the 2.7 or 2.8 filter for SSB, Data and CW transmit. The AM
transmit filter must be 6 kHz and the FM transmit filter must be 13 kHz. Any
other settings will result in failure and a ERR TXF (Error TX Filter)
message.

See the Errata sheet that shipped with your K3.

73,
Don W3FPR "
To the best of my ability to discern, this does not indicate the reason for
the limitation. In fact, the phrase "until further information" and the fact
that ESSB uses a different filter than "traditional" SSB indicates to me at
least the possibility that there may be "firmware" reasons for this
limitation (like BFO alignment on TX and RX), not that there aren't also
possibly "hardware" reasons (like carrier rejection, etc.). If someone knows
the theory of the radio's operation well enough to help me understand the
limitation, I would like to be enlightened.

So yes, I did look for the answer in the reflector archives and no, this is
not a request for Elecraft to take valuable time out from their other
activities to react to my personal "wish list."

--
73 -- Brian -- K1LI

On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]>wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 10:01:05 +0000, [hidden email] wrote:
>
> Have you searched the reflector or the website for past communications on
> the topics that interest you? There are engineering reasons why you can
> transmit through some filters and not others. These are not firmware issues,
> they are RF design issues. Elecraft has very good engineers, and they tend
> to make good decisions.
>
> Jim Brown K9YC
>

Jan Erik Holm

Re: [Elecraft] K3: Why can't I use my 1.8kHz filter for SSB TX?

I would like to use the 2.1 kHz filter for SSB TX.

Elecraft any solution?

Jim SM2EKM
----------------
On 2010-01-24 19:38, Brian Machesney wrote:

> Yes, I did search the archives to find out "why you can transmit through
> some filters and not through others" before posting this question to the
> reflector. The only "authoritative" information I found information was this
> from July 2008:
>
> "Until further information to the contrary is available from Elecraft, you
> must select the 2.7 or 2.8 filter for SSB, Data and CW transmit. The AM
> transmit filter must be 6 kHz and the FM transmit filter must be 13 kHz. Any
> other settings will result in failure and a ERR TXF (Error TX Filter)
> message.
>
> See the Errata sheet that shipped with your K3.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR "
> To the best of my ability to discern, this does not indicate the reason for
> the limitation. In fact, the phrase "until further information" and the fact
> that ESSB uses a different filter than "traditional" SSB indicates to me at
> least the possibility that there may be "firmware" reasons for this
> limitation (like BFO alignment on TX and RX), not that there aren't also
> possibly "hardware" reasons (like carrier rejection, etc.). If someone knows
> the theory of the radio's operation well enough to help me understand the
> limitation, I would like to be enlightened.
>
> So yes, I did look for the answer in the reflector archives and no, this is
> not a request for Elecraft to take valuable time out from their other
> activities to react to my personal "wish list."
>

Guy, K2AV

Re: [Elecraft] K3: Why can't I use my 1.8kHz filter for SSB TX?

What would be the problem you were solving?

On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 1:44 AM, Jan Erik Holm <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I would like to use the 2.1 kHz filter for SSB TX.
>
> Elecraft any solution?
>
> Jim SM2EKM
> ----------------
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Bob Naumann W5OV

Re: [Elecraft] K3: Why can't I use my 1.8kHz filter for SSB TX?

The key problem is that when you want to use other than a 2.7 or 2.8 kHz
filter for receive, you must still tie up one of the remaining 4 filter
slots with either the 2.7 or 2.8 kHz filters in order to transmit. If there
were 7 or 8 filter slots in the radio, or one slot dedicated to transmit,
this would not be a problem.

In my case, I have a 200, 500, 1000, 2.1 and 6 Khz filter installed. I don't
want to give up any of them, but because of this limitation, I have to
remove one of the filters I want to use.

73,

Bob W5OV

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Guy Olinger K2AV
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 7:05 AM
To: Jan Erik Holm
Cc: Elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Why can't I use my 1.8kHz filter for SSB TX?

What would be the problem you were solving?

On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 1:44 AM, Jan Erik Holm <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I would like to use the 2.1 kHz filter for SSB TX.
>
> Elecraft any solution?
>
> Jim SM2EKM
> ----------------
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Guy, K2AV

Re: [Elecraft] K3: Why can't I use my 1.8kHz filter for SSB TX?

I see where you are coming from, but with a 2.1 why bother with the
1000 roofing filter (that's a question, not a criticism), since for
casual operation the DSP should suffice. But since you DON'T have a
2.7/2.8 installed, how are you tricking the system? You telling it
that the 2.1 is a 2.7? Why do you "have to remove one of the filters
I want to use"?

In my lineup I have 250, 400, 1.8, 2.7, and 6. For casual CW I
frequently use width at 800 (thus invoking the 1.8 roofer) around 500
Hz. For digital I use 2.7 width and let the computer watch the entire
bandwidth.

Some time ago I asked why one did not transmit CW through the narrow
filter to limit bandwidth. I never quite got that answered. Some
speculated that had to do with products of phase distortion in the
narrow filters. I don't recollect an official answer.

My personal *guess* at this point is that it has something to do with
FCC type acceptance.

73, Guy.

On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Bob Naumann <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The key problem is that when you want to use other than a 2.7 or 2.8 kHz
> filter for receive, you must still tie up one of the remaining 4 filter
> slots with either the 2.7 or 2.8 kHz filters in order to transmit. If there
> were 7 or 8 filter slots in the radio, or one slot dedicated to transmit,
> this would not be a problem.
>
> In my case, I have a 200, 500, 1000, 2.1 and 6 Khz filter installed. I don't
> want to give up any of them, but because of this limitation, I have to
> remove one of the filters I want to use.
>
> 73,
>
> Bob W5OV
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Guy Olinger K2AV
> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 7:05 AM
> To: Jan Erik Holm
> Cc: Elecraft
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Why can't I use my 1.8kHz filter for SSB TX?
>
> What would be the problem you were solving?
>
> On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 1:44 AM, Jan Erik Holm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I would like to use the 2.1 kHz filter for SSB TX.
>>
>> Elecraft any solution?
>>
>> Jim SM2EKM
>> ----------------
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

David Woolley (E.L)

Re: [Elecraft] K3: Why can't I use my 1.8kHz filter for SSB TX?

In reply to this post by K1LI

One possibility is that the rig has only been type approval tested in
that configuration, so anyone wanting to operate it with a different
filter would require a professional RF spectrum analyzer.

Top posted through policy, not belief.

Brian Machesney wrote:
> reflector. The only "authoritative" information I found information was this
> from July 2008:
>
> "Until further information to the contrary is available from Elecraft, you
> must select the 2.7 or 2.8 filter for SSB, Data and CW transmit. The AM
> transmit filter must be 6 kHz and the FM transmit filter must be 13 kHz. Any
> other settings will result in failure and a ERR TXF (Error TX Filter)
> message.

--
David Woolley
"we do not overly restrict the subject matter on the list, and we
encourage postings on a wide range of amateur radio related topics"
List Guidelines <http://www.elecraft.com/elecraft_list_guidelines.htm>
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Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604

Re: [Elecraft] K3: Why can't I use my 1.8kHz filter for SSB TX?

Early versions of the firmware did, in fact, allow transmission
through the 2.1kHz filter, and that capability was removed. I suggest
that speculation is futile, since there are authoritative sources
available.

73, doug

Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:41:18 +0000
From: "David Woolley (E.L)" <[hidden email]>

One possibility is that the rig has only been type approval tested in
that configuration, so anyone wanting to operate it with a different
filter would require a professional RF spectrum analyzer.

Top posted through policy, not belief.

Brian Machesney wrote:
> reflector. The only "authoritative" information I found information was this
> from July 2008:
>
> "Until further information to the contrary is available from Elecraft, you
> must select the 2.7 or 2.8 filter for SSB, Data and CW transmit. The AM
> transmit filter must be 6 kHz and the FM transmit filter must be 13 kHz. Any
> other settings will result in failure and a ERR TXF (Error TX Filter)
> message.
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Jan Erik Holm

Re: [Elecraft] K3: Why can't I use my 1.8kHz filter for SSB TX?

Yes but those sources doesn´t speak.

/ Jim
------------
On 2010-01-26 17:16, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 wrote:

> Early versions of the firmware did, in fact, allow transmission
> through the 2.1kHz filter, and that capability was removed. I suggest
> that speculation is futile, since there are authoritative sources
> available.
>
> 73, doug
>
> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:41:18 +0000
> From: "David Woolley (E.L)"<[hidden email]>
>
> One possibility is that the rig has only been type approval tested in
> that configuration, so anyone wanting to operate it with a different
> filter would require a professional RF spectrum analyzer.
>
> Top posted through policy, not belief.
>
> Brian Machesney wrote:
> > reflector. The only "authoritative" information I found information was this
> > from July 2008:
> >
> > "Until further information to the contrary is available from Elecraft, you
> > must select the 2.7 or 2.8 filter for SSB, Data and CW transmit. The AM
> > transmit filter must be 6 kHz and the FM transmit filter must be 13 kHz. Any
> > other settings will result in failure and a ERR TXF (Error TX Filter)
> > message.