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[K3] XV144 fault (offset problem?)

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GM0ELP

[K3] XV144 fault (offset problem?)

Seasons Greetings,
Just finished building my Xmas present (XV144). Initial trials show an offset frequency of +12.5KHz is required to put it on frequency. Unfortunately the K3 XV1 OFS menu only goes up to +9.99KHz leaving the frequency readout 2.51KHz low.

I have re-read the manual, but there doesn't seem to be any other method for the additional required offset?

Is it normal for the XV144 to require such a large offset?

My frequency references are not exact (IC275E, GB3ANG Beacon and several local amateurs). I don't need any high degree of accuracy but ball-park +/- 300Hz would be nice.

Any help would be welcome.

Doug GM0ELP

Matt Zilmer

Re: [K3] XV144 fault (offset problem?)

Hi Doug,

The K144XV here had an +850 Hz offset when received. There is about
25Hz of temperature drift as well. Combined, the 875 Hz could be
canceled using the offset setting.

12.5 KHz seems excessive, and that's the highest I've heard of.

Note: My K144XV is one of the first ones produced (early 2010), and
has remained stable (as above) during the last year.

Hope this helps. Doesn't sound like it will.

73 and HNY!
matt W6NIA

On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 08:22:37 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>
>Seasons Greetings,
>Just finished building my Xmas present (XV144). Initial trials show an
>offset frequency of +12.5KHz is required to put it on frequency.
>Unfortunately the K3 XV1 OFS menu only goes up to +9.99KHz leaving the
>frequency readout 2.51KHz low.
>
>I have re-read the manual, but there doesn't seem to be any other method for
>the additional required offset?
>
>Is it normal for the XV144 to require such a large offset?
>
>My frequency references are not exact (IC275E, GB3ANG Beacon and several
>local amateurs). I don't need any high degree of accuracy but ball-park +/-
>300Hz would be nice.
>
>Any help would be welcome.
>
>Doug GM0ELP

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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: [K3] XV144 fault (offset problem?)

Administrator

In reply to this post by GM0ELP

12.5 kHz sounds like you have one of your signal source radios one
channel off in tx frequency. That is way more than we normally see here.

73, Eric

On 12/29/2010 8:22 AM, GM0ELP wrote:

> Seasons Greetings,
> Just finished building my Xmas present (XV144). Initial trials show an
> offset frequency of +12.5KHz is required to put it on frequency.
> Unfortunately the K3 XV1 OFS menu only goes up to +9.99KHz leaving the
> frequency readout 2.51KHz low.
>
> I have re-read the manual, but there doesn't seem to be any other method for
> the additional required offset?
>
> Is it normal for the XV144 to require such a large offset?
>
> My frequency references are not exact (IC275E, GB3ANG Beacon and several
> local amateurs). I don't need any high degree of accuracy but ball-park +/-
> 300Hz would be nice.
>
> Any help would be welcome.
>
> Doug GM0ELP

David Pratt

K144XV (was [K3] XV144 fault (offset problem?))

In reply to this post by Matt Zilmer

Matt - Interested to know that your K144XV is stable. I am afraid that
mine drifts horrendously (almost 100Hz per 5 minutes). Hence I have
ceased using it until a fix is produce and have reverted to my XV144
which is far superior.

73 de David G4DMP

In a recent message, Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]> writes
>Note: My K144XV is one of the first ones produced (early 2010), and
>has remained stable (as above) during the last year.

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GM0ELP

Re: [K3] XV144 fault (offset problem?)

In reply to this post by Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Hi Eric/Matt,
I am using the XV144 not the internal K144XV. For reference source I am using a beacon and several other local sources (not mine) so definately not my finger problems. Other than the 12.5KHz offset problem all seems well (as far as I can tell) : alignment, comms with K3, ptt, sensitivity, tx audio, power output etc, etc. I have spent the afternoon re-checking component values but haven't found any mistakes yet. I must have made a mistake somewhere if this has never been seen before.

Doug GM0ELP

Roger de Valle

Re: [K3] XV144 fault (offset problem?)

In reply to this post by GM0ELP

Doug

Check the frequency stamped on the crystal, mine was the wrong frequency
and gave the exact same problem, I requested a new one and it was also
the wrong frequency. In the end I obtained a high stability crystal
locally and it came up exactly on frequency. I don't know if Elecraft
was aware of this but at the time it was very frustrating.

Roger VK3ADE

On 30/12/2010 03:22, GM0ELP wrote:
> Seasons Greetings,
> Just finished building my Xmas present (XV144). Initial trials show an
> offset frequency of +12.5KHz is required to put it on frequency.
> Unfortunately the K3 XV1 OFS menu only goes up to +9.99KHz leaving the
> frequency readout 2.51KHz low.
>
>
> Doug GM0ELP

--
Roger de Valle
Genette Pty Ltd
03 5330 3081
0407 320 121

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N5GE

Re: K144XV (was [K3] XV144 fault (offset problem?))

In reply to this post by David Pratt

David,

Mine drifts a bit when I first go to the band, but to solve that I just give it
a key down into a dummy load for about ten seconds to warm it up, because When
your not on the 2m band it is not powered. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but
I think that is what the manual says. That seems to settle it down quite a bit.
However, I do wish it was a bit more stable. Perhaps they are working on a
solution that will keep the xtals warmed up when you are on another band. That
would be nice.

73,

Tom Childers
Radio Amateur N5GE
Licensed since 1976
QCWA Member 35102
ARRL Life Member
Retired Professional
C# Software developer

On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 19:28:10 +0000, David Pratt <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Matt - Interested to know that your K144XV is stable. I am afraid that
>mine drifts horrendously (almost 100Hz per 5 minutes). Hence I have
>ceased using it until a fix is produce and have reverted to my XV144
>which is far superior.
>
>73 de David G4DMP
[snip]

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Amateur Radio Operator N5GE

M0XDF

Re: K144XV (was [K3] XV144 fault (offset problem?))

I haven't built mine yet, but the manual states on pg14 that the local oscillator power can be controlled in 3 ways:

LO goes off when power is turned off or K2 (K3) is switched to different band

LO is on when power is on and if used with K2, when it's power is on, even if the Transverter band is not selected

LO is on whenever 12v is applied to J7 on back panel, regardless of the state of the power or band switches (that's recommended if the crystal oven is installed)

73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108
--
It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be
reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err.
-Mohandas K. Gandhi (1869-1948)

On 30 Dec 2010, at 03:11, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE wrote:

>
> David,
>
> Mine drifts a bit when I first go to the band, but to solve that I just give it
> a key down into a dummy load for about ten seconds to warm it up, because When
> your not on the 2m band it is not powered. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but
> I think that is what the manual says. That seems to settle it down quite a bit.
> However, I do wish it was a bit more stable. Perhaps they are working on a
> solution that will keep the xtals warmed up when you are on another band. That
> would be nice.

M0XDF

Re: K144XV (was [K3] XV144 fault (offset problem?))

Sorry, let me qualify that - this is the XV144 we are talking about.
The original question was about the XV144 and someone here misunderstood that to be K144XV.

MY post (below) refers to the XV144.
73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108
--
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade
they know they shall never sit in. -Greek proverb

On 30 Dec 2010, at 08:00, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:

> I haven't built mine yet, but the manual states on pg14 that the local oscillator power can be controlled in 3 ways:
>
> LO goes off when power is turned off or K2 (K3) is switched to different band
>
> LO is on when power is on and if used with K2, when it's power is on, even if the Transverter band is not selected
>
> LO is on whenever 12v is applied to J7 on back panel, regardless of the state of the power or band switches (that's recommended if the crystal oven is installed)
>
> 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108
> --
> It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be
> reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err.
> -Mohandas K. Gandhi (1869-1948)
>
> On 30 Dec 2010, at 03:11, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE wrote:
>
>>
>> David,
>>
>> Mine drifts a bit when I first go to the band, but to solve that I just give it
>> a key down into a dummy load for about ten seconds to warm it up, because When
>> your not on the 2m band it is not powered. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but
>> I think that is what the manual says. That seems to settle it down quite a bit.
>> However, I do wish it was a bit more stable. Perhaps they are working on a
>> solution that will keep the xtals warmed up when you are on another band. That
>> would be nice.
>

GM0ELP

Re: [K3] XV144 fault (offset problem?)

In reply to this post by Roger de Valle

Hi Roger,
Many thanks for the response, it certainly is very frustrating. I have the Crystal Oven option installed, so would have to take things apart to see the crystal markings.

In the manual it says:
Y1 Crystal, 116 MHz 5th Overtone Series Resonant (116.000)

Did the ones Elecraft sent you have (116.000) stamped on them? (144MHz input = 116MHz LO + 28MHz IF)

Was it the accuracy of the Elecraft crystal parts that was questionable, or were the markings/parts wrong?

Hopefully Elecraft will check their crystals for the XV144 and comment before I need to start taking things apart.

Doug GM0ELP

Roger de Valle

Re: [K3] XV144 fault (offset problem?)

Doug

The crystals originally supplied by Elecraft for the 2m Transverter were
stamped 116.010000Mhz so they were always going to be problematic and
off frequency. The ones they replaced the originals with were also
116.010000MHz and I really don't know why they were sent unless it was a
mistake. maybe some one from Elecraft could comment.
Given the distance you are off frequency I would suggest you have
similar crystals, by memory there was not offset adjustment available to
correct for the frequency error. Ireplaced them with a locally sourced
crystal of 116.00000Mhz and the transverter came up right on frequency.

Regards.

Roger VK3ADE

On 30/12/2010 20:58, GM0ELP wrote:

> Hi Roger,
> Many thanks for the response, it certainly is very frustrating. I have the
> Crystal Oven option installed, so would have to take things apart to see the
> crystal markings.
>
> In the manual it says:
> Y1 Crystal, 116 MHz 5th Overtone Series Resonant (116.000)
>
> Did the ones Elecraft sent you have (116.000) stamped on them? (144MHz input
> = 116MHz LO + 28MHz IF)
>
> Was it the accuracy of the Elecraft crystal parts that was questionable, or
> were the markings/parts wrong?
>
> Hopefully Elecraft will check their crystals for the XV144 and comment
> before I need to start taking things apart.
>
>
> Doug GM0ELP
>
>

--
Roger de Valle
Genette Pty Ltd
03 5330 3081
0407 320 121

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G4BVY

Re: [K3] XV144 fault (offset problem?)

In reply to this post by GM0ELP

Hi Doug,
When I built my XV144 about a year ago I had exactly the same problem! I
replaced the crystal with a 116MHz one I stole from another transverter I
have and it worked OK. Elecraft sent me a replacement crystal very promptly
but I never got around to trying it.

Roger - G4BVY

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of GM0ELP
Sent: 29 December 2010 21:27
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] XV144 fault (offset problem?)

Hi Eric/Matt,
I am using the XV144 not the internal K144XV. For reference source I am
using a beacon and several other local sources (not mine) so definately not
my finger problems. Other than the 12.5KHz offset problem all seems well (as
far as I can tell) : alignment, comms with K3, ptt, sensitivity, tx audio,
power output etc, etc. I have spent the afternoon re-checking component
values but haven't found any mistakes yet. I must have made a mistake
somewhere if this has never been seen before.

Doug GM0ELP
--
View this message in context:
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-XV144-fault-offset-problem-tp5874870
p5875592.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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hb9wi

Re: [K3] XV144 fault (offset problem?)

He all
I have the same problem with my XV144, with an offset of -12.5kHz at the connected transceiver and hence outside of the RIT. The original crystal was marked 116.010 MHz. The replacement I got quickly is marked also 116.010 MHz. The same offset compare against several bacons!
I checked my transceiver also against several bacons at 28 MHz, a 1 MHz marker generator and my K3. So I am pretty certain, that the LO is at about 116.0125 MHz, close to its marking of the crystal.
I do not see the reason why Elecraft is using a 116.010 MHz crystal?
I now ordered a 116.000 crystal from a German supplier, I will see.
73 HB9WI Willy

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: [K3] XV144 fault (offset problem?)

Administrator

Hi Willy - We are aware of this and are checking it out in engineering
right now.

We are waiting for a part to arrive to verify the change and we will
post on the Elecraft list and the web site as soon as it is available.

73, Eric WA6HHQ

On 1/13/2011 8:45 AM, hb9wi wrote:

> He all
> I have the same problem with my XV144, with an offset of -12.5kHz at the
> connected transceiver and hence outside of the RIT. The original crystal was
> marked 116.010 MHz. The replacement I got quickly is marked also 116.010
> MHz. The same offset compare against several bacons!
> I checked my transceiver also against several bacons at 28 MHz, a 1 MHz
> marker generator and my K3. So I am pretty certain, that the LO is at about
> 116.0125 MHz, close to its marking of the crystal.
> I do not see the reason why Elecraft is using a 116.010 MHz crystal?
> I now ordered a 116.000 crystal from a German supplier, I will see.
> 73 HB9WI Willy
>

hb9wi

Re: [K3] XV144 fault (offset problem?)

Hi Eric
I noticed that Elecraft has published two errata sheets on the transverters.
They mention an additional coil L19 in series to the crystal.
May I order the coil at Elecraft?

Thank you for looking into the offset problem.

73, Willy HB9WI

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: [K3] XV144 fault (offset problem?)

Administrator

Yes, this mod adds an adjustable coil to move the newer XV144 crystals
within the +/- 9.9 kHz calibration range of the K3. In most cases it
will pull the crystal far enough to use an offset of zero, but that is
not guaranteed in all cases. There is a place already on the XV144 PCB
for this part.

We offer the XV144MDKT at no cost and the user only pays shipping. It
should be up on the parts and mod kits order web page in the later this
week.

73, Eric WA6HHQ
----

On 2/7/2011 11:16 AM, hb9wi wrote:
> Hi Eric
> I noticed that Elecraft has published two errata sheets on the transverters.
> They mention an additional coil L19 in series to the crystal.
> May I order the coil at Elecraft?
>
> Thank you for looking into the offset problem.
>
> 73, Willy HB9WI
>
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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: [K3] XV144 fault (offset problem?)

Administrator

Correction - shipping is free too on this part.

:-)

73, Eric

On 2/7/2011 4:17 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:

> Yes, this mod adds an adjustable coil to move the newer XV144 crystals
> within the +/- 9.9 kHz calibration range of the K3. In most cases it
> will pull the crystal far enough to use an offset of zero, but that is
> not guaranteed in all cases. There is a place already on the XV144 PCB
> for this part.
>
> We offer the XV144MDKT at no cost and the user only pays shipping. It
> should be up on the parts and mod kits order web page in the later this
> week.
>
> 73, Eric WA6HHQ
> ----
>
>
> On 2/7/2011 11:16 AM, hb9wi wrote:
>> Hi Eric
>> I noticed that Elecraft has published two errata sheets on the transverters.
>> They mention an additional coil L19 in series to the crystal.
>> May I order the coil at Elecraft?
>>
>> Thank you for looking into the offset problem.
>>
>> 73, Willy HB9WI
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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M0XDF

Re: [K3] XV144 fault (offset problem?)

In reply to this post by Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Can you say from which serial number this affects, Eric?
73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108

The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best
time is today. ~Chinese proverb~

On 8 Feb 2011, at 00:17, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: [K3] XV144 fault (offset problem?)

David,

This is for the external XV144 transverters, no serial numbers involved.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/7/2011 9:08 PM, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:

> Can you say from which serial number this affects, Eric?
> 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108
>
> The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best
> time is today. ~Chinese proverb~
>
>
> On 8 Feb 2011, at 00:17, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:
>
>> Yes, this mod adds an adjustable coil to move the newer XV144 crystals
>> within the +/- 9.9 kHz calibration range of the K3. In most cases it
>> will pull the crystal far enough to use an offset of zero, but that is
>> not guaranteed in all cases. There is a place already on the XV144 PCB
>> for this part.
>>
>> We offer the XV144MDKT at no cost and the user only pays shipping. It
>> should be up on the parts and mod kits order web page in the later this
>> week.
>>
>> 73, Eric WA6HHQ
>> ----
>>
>>
>> On 2/7/2011 11:16 AM, hb9wi wrote:
>>> Hi Eric
>>> I noticed that Elecraft has published two errata sheets on the transverters.
>>> They mention an additional coil L19 in series to the crystal.
>>> May I order the coil at Elecraft?
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Roger de Valle

Re: [K3] XV144 fault (offset problem?)

Don

I have to say this has taken a good while to sort out, I sent an email
to Gary on 19/04/2010 notifying him of the problem. The response then
was to send a couple of new crystals also on the wrong frequency so I
gave up and purchased a crystal locally. I have to say the transverter
works fine now but I wish it had been sorted out a lot earlier.

Roger VK3ADE.

On 08/02/2011 13:17, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> David,
>
> This is for the external XV144 transverters, no serial numbers involved.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 2/7/2011 9:08 PM, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:
>> Can you say from which serial number this affects, Eric?
>> 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108
>>
>> The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best
>> time is today. ~Chinese proverb~
>>
>>
>> On 8 Feb 2011, at 00:17, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, this mod adds an adjustable coil to move the newer XV144 crystals
>>> within the +/- 9.9 kHz calibration range of the K3. In most cases it
>>> will pull the crystal far enough to use an offset of zero, but that is
>>> not guaranteed in all cases. There is a place already on the XV144 PCB
>>> for this part.
>>>
>>> We offer the XV144MDKT at no cost and the user only pays shipping. It
>>> should be up on the parts and mod kits order web page in the later this
>>> week.
>>>
>>> 73, Eric WA6HHQ
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/7/2011 11:16 AM, hb9wi wrote:
>>>> Hi Eric
>>>> I noticed that Elecraft has published two errata sheets on the transverters.
>>>> They mention an additional coil L19 in series to the crystal.
>>>> May I order the coil at Elecraft?
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
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>>
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>>
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--
Genette Pty Ltd
0407 320 121
03 5330 3081

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