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K3 & M/M Contest stations

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Stephen Bloom

Re: K3 & M/M Contest stations

Ditto. This is the first radio I"ve ever owned that comes with an opioniated user community, no extra charge :) I also didn't know that D4C and W7RN had K3s. There is an ongoing debate amongst long time top 25 type contesters (of which I am not!) about the K3 for M/M. If the D4C level guys are using them..that is real high credibility.

73
Steve KL7SB

Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S®4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: KQ8M <[hidden email]>
Date: 04/14/2014 12:59 PM (GMT-09:00)
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 & M/M Contest stations

Personally I am enjoying this discussion and am looking forward to the contest station settings. Anything to help improve the
performance of my K3 is welcome. I am not the brightest bulb in the pack so always am grateful for any help.

73,
Tim Herrick, KQ8M
Charter Member North Coast Contesters
[hidden email]

AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org
User Ports: 23, 7373 with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer
Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 4:54 PM
To: XE3/K5ENS; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 & M/M Contest stations

Folks - please tone down the discussion. Keith was just voicing an opinion, not making an attack. -All- technical opinions are
welcome here. And there is no need to defend the K3's honor. It does pretty well on its own ;-)

Now back to our hopefully more substantive, and polite, topics..

Your always enthusiastic list manager,
Eric
elecraft.com
<Yes, I -do- frequently make Tpyos -- I'm just typing (er, thinking) too fast!> ===

On 4/14/2014 1:24 PM, XE3/K5ENS wrote:
> AND.... my money is that none of these radios are stock out of the box
> settings! Settings are settings and some have been changed. That's
> all I said.
>
> Keith, XE3/K5ENS
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Jim Brown-10

Re: K3 & M/M Contest stations

On 4/14/2014 3:15 PM, Stephen Bloom wrote:
> If the D4C level guys are using them..that is real high credibility.

N6TV won CW Sweepstakes this year from W7RN. He's been using k3s since
they first came out. As I recall, more than half the rigs at WRTC last
time around were K3s. N6TV, K6XX, and N6XI are three more locals who
competed at WRTC in Russia, and all are K3 owners. K6XX has a bunch in
his multi-multi station. He's a bit of a special case -- he's an
engineer at Elecraft.

73, Jim

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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: K3 & M/M Contest stations

Administrator

In reply to this post by Tim Herrick

No problems with folks posting their contest mode K3 settings. I was just ending
the more argumentative part :-) I did not mean to close the complete thread.

Post away with your favorite K3 settings, contests or otherwise.

73,

Eric
Moderator from time to time
elecraft.com
===

On 4/14/2014 1:59 PM, KQ8M wrote:

> Personally I am enjoying this discussion and am looking forward to the contest station settings. Anything to help improve the
> performance of my K3 is welcome. I am not the brightest bulb in the pack so always am grateful for any help.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 4:54 PM
> To: XE3/K5ENS; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 & M/M Contest stations
>
> Folks - please tone down the discussion.

Stephen Bloom

Re: K3 & M/M Contest stations

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

What would be really nice ...would be the ability to save a few configurations, and
toggle them with a button within N1MM and WinTest.

73
Steve KL7SB

> Keith,
>
> That may be true, but if it is, each operator will know how to set it up
> to his preferences.
> I say again, if he does not know how to set it up, he should leave it
> alone. In the midst of a contest is not the time to be fiddling with
> things to find out what each operator wants. A bit of education and
> practice with settings beforehand *can* make such operator changeovers
> smooth.
>
> Perhaps your group can agree on some compromise settings that will work
> suitably for all.
> After all, DXPeditions using multiple operators seem to do something
> like that with success. Setting up for a contest should be no more
> difficult.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 4/14/2014 1:54 PM, XE3/K5ENS wrote:
>> Don,
>>
>> No way could someone that was a real serious contester use the K3 with the
>> stock settings and score anywhere near the points that could be scored
>> without changing the settings. A stock K3 is NOT a contest radio. And I
>> think that's where a lot of the cons about the K3 happen. There are several
>> settings in the K3 that must be changed to make the radio a contest radio.
>>
>> Keith, XE3/K5ENS
>>
>
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k6dgw

Re: K3 & M/M Contest stations

In reply to this post by Stephen Bloom

This is a pretty wiggly thread and seems to have drifted pretty far off
of Steve's original query.

First off Steve, I erred slightly when I said that W7RN "has" 4 K3's set
up in two independent SO2R positions. I later remembered that Tom
actually has 5 K3's, not sure if the 5th one is a spare or he has other
uses for it. I believe all of the "operational 4" are identically
configured. I don't do SO2R [I'm lucky to succeed with one radio in
front of me and that's all I touch], but W7RN is a totally first class
station so I'll bet they're identical.

Second, I believe I understand your original question to be pointing at
the unmistakable fact that everyone likes to configure their radio to
their own personal tastes, the K3 is highly configurable, and in a M/M
[or even a M/S] situation, this can lead to "radio fiddling" instead of
"point-scoring."

I'm guilty of that ... I lost most of my hearing many years ago and I
run the AF gain pretty high. I try and turn it down when I'm relieved
by someone but I also caution my compatriots that I can forget to do
that [i.e. don't put the cans on without checking the AF Gain. 50 years
ago, commercial CW ops always wore cans forward to protect their ears].
But, if it's not a front panel adjustment, I don't change anything on
Tom's radios. The biggest other factor I've noticed in a multi op is
the sidetone monitor level. That seems to be a big factor among
operators, however that level is a front panel adjustment on the K3,
sort of like AF Gain.

I am on the N6A crew that activates Alpine County in CQP. We've always
been M/S until recently when we've gone M/M. There is a core group,
we've always tried to be standard, but there are usually additional ops
each year. Many of them want to reconfigure the radio, the logging
program, and whatever. We discourage that, but this is also a hobby and
we like to all get along, so there always seems to be a compromise. :-)

Third, I don't think your question had anything to do with using K3's
"out of the box" in serious contesting vs not using them at all or
adding options.

Direct answer to your question from my experience: I don't think the
"behind the scenes" configurability of the K3 detracts from its use in
multis. It's lack of phase noise, key clicks, spurs, IMD, and its
extreme BDR really make it very attractive in a multi. :-)

I'll reply to your question about coastal CW directly.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014
- www.cqp.org

On 4/14/2014 3:15 PM, Stephen Bloom wrote:
> Ditto. This is the first radio I"ve ever owned that comes with an
> opioniated user community, no extra charge :) I also didn't know
> that D4C and W7RN had K3s. There is an ongoing debate amongst long
> time top 25 type contesters (of which I am not!) about the K3 for
> M/M. If the D4C level guys are using them..that is real high
> credibility.
>
> 73 Steve KL7SB

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k6dgw

Re: K3 & M/M Contest stations

Sorry, did not intend to descend into jargon. In contests there are
"usually," not all contests are the same, two separate entry classes.
M/S is Multi-Single ... multiple operators who take turns on one radio
[i.e. transmitter]. M/M is Multi-Multi ... multiple operators who
operate more than one transmitter. Generally, M/M means multiple
operators, two transmitters, but sometimes it can be more than two rigs.

Probably the ultimate M/M is a DXPedition, Field Day runs a close second
although Field Day is not a contest if you believe the official word.

The problem that confronts any group of multiple operators, regardless
of the number of radios, is that they are all going to share a radio,
and everyone likes their's different. Steve's question seems to be, and
apparently this has been a discussion up in the Frozen North, "Does the
very significant configurability of the K3 present a problem in
multi-operations when each operator wants his own?"

Welcome to the hobby, Hoop! If your experience is anything like mine
has been for 60 years, it's a continual learning experience.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014
- www.cqp.org

On 4/14/2014 6:12 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> What do “M/M” and “M/S” refer to?
>
> I’m a new ham and still learning.
>
> Hoop

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Bob-270

Re: K3 & M/M Contest stations

In reply to this post by Fabio

Hi Fabio,

Well maybe they were identical but you avoided the question. WHAT
WERE THEY?? You have a lot of cumulative knowledge people were asking about.
With multi-ops and 48 hour contests you get more exposure in a contest weekend
than I and many get in a year of casual and contesting operating. K9YC just did
an interesting post and gave interesting P3 info.

Even if you don't give exact values and settings the background
as to what and why changes were made would be interesting to many.

That is the old Ham Radio sharing aspect.

73,
Bob
K2TK ex KN2TKR (1956) & K2TKR

On 4/14/2014 2:40 PM, I4UFH wrote:

> Hi Guys
>
>
> The configuration of all the K3 were identical, so operators can move between bands, without worry about, equalizer, filters, or mic control, no one had touched these configuration during the contest, because
> during the contest ur are busy to run …
>
>
>
> 73 de Fabio I4UFH / D4C SSB Team Leader
>
>

Chester Alderman

Re: K3 & M/M Contest stations

In reply to this post by Stephen Bloom

I think you can use the K3 Utility to save the K3 configuration, rename it
with your own call sign then save it, copy it to a flash card, and restore
that configuration on a different K3 from its K3 Utility. I don't know if
anyone has tried this, but saving and restoring the K3 configuration is
contained in the K3 Utility.

73,
Tom - W4BQF

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 7:35 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 & M/M Contest stations

What would be really nice ...would be the ability to save a few
configurations, and toggle them with a button within N1MM and WinTest.

73
Steve KL7SB

> Keith,
>
> That may be true, but if it is, each operator will know how to set it
> up to his preferences.
> I say again, if he does not know how to set it up, he should leave it
> alone. In the midst of a contest is not the time to be fiddling with
> things to find out what each operator wants. A bit of education and
> practice with settings beforehand *can* make such operator changeovers
> smooth.
>
> Perhaps your group can agree on some compromise settings that will
> work suitably for all.
> After all, DXPeditions using multiple operators seem to do something
> like that with success. Setting up for a contest should be no more
> difficult.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 4/14/2014 1:54 PM, XE3/K5ENS wrote:
>> Don,
>>
>> No way could someone that was a real serious contester use the K3
>> with the stock settings and score anywhere near the points that could
>> be scored without changing the settings. A stock K3 is NOT a contest
>> radio. And I think that's where a lot of the cons about the K3
>> happen. There are several settings in the K3 that must be changed to

make the radio a contest radio.

>>
>> Keith, XE3/K5ENS
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]
>

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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: K3 & M/M Contest stations

I'm not sure. My recollection is that someone
posted a few weeks ago that he has two K3s and
could not load the config file save from one into
his other one. I don't plan to be in a position to
try that myself

73, Phil w7ox

On 4/14/14, 8:48 PM, Chester Alderman wrote:
> I think you can use the K3 Utility to save the K3 configuration, rename it
> with your own call sign then save it, copy it to a flash card, and restore
> that configuration on a different K3 from its K3 Utility. I don't know if
> anyone has tried this, but saving and restoring the K3 configuration is
> contained in the K3 Utility.
>
> 73,
> Tom - W4BQF

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Frank Precissi

Re: K3 & M/M Contest stations

In reply to this post by Chester Alderman

I always thought that K3 configs were rig specific. If you tried to load
another K3's config you'll mess up your own rigs LO calibration settings,
etc.

Would be nice if you could save a config that just had EQ/Band/NR/etc
settings without blowing away stuff in the tech menu.

Frank
KG6EYC

On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 8:48 PM, Chester Alderman
<[hidden email]>wrote:

> I think you can use the K3 Utility to save the K3 configuration, rename it
> with your own call sign then save it, copy it to a flash card, and restore
> that configuration on a different K3 from its K3 Utility. I don't know if
> anyone has tried this, but saving and restoring the K3 configuration is
> contained in the K3 Utility.
>

--
CW: NAQCC #6554 | SKCC #10435 | FISTS #16155 | SOC #1038 | FPQRP #3186
Digital: FHC #4224 | 30MDG #6370 | DMC #5698
Gear: K3 #7164 | P3 #3134 | KX3 #1787
http://vadept.com
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vk2rq

Re: K3 & M/M Contest stations

In reply to this post by Phil Wheeler-2

Don't think it will work -- I believe the serial number is saved in the config file, and the K3 utility won't load it onto another radio with a different serial number. Remember, the configuration file will contain not only normal user settings, but also hardware configuration and calibration values which will vary from radio to radio.

73, Matt VK2RQ.

On 15 Apr 2014, at 2:05 pm, Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm not sure. My recollection is that someone posted a few weeks ago that he has two K3s and could not load the config file save from one into his other one. I don't plan to be in a position to try that myself
>
> 73, Phil w7ox
>
> On 4/14/14, 8:48 PM, Chester Alderman wrote:
>> I think you can use the K3 Utility to save the K3 configuration, rename it
>> with your own call sign then save it, copy it to a flash card, and restore
>> that configuration on a different K3 from its K3 Utility. I don't know if
>> anyone has tried this, but saving and restoring the K3 configuration is
>> contained in the K3 Utility.
>>
>> 73,
>> Tom - W4BQF
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Ed Muns

Re: K3 & M/M Contest stations

In reply to this post by Phil Wheeler-2

K3 configurations are not transferable to other K3s. Some of the
configuration parameters are specific to the K3, like the gain calibration
and VCO parameters.

Accordingly, the K3 Utility only allows configurations to be restored to the
same serial number K3 that they were saved from. This is a good thing.

It would be nice if the radio non-specific configuration parameters were
transferrable but that feature currently is not available.

Ed W0YK

Phil, W7OX wrote:
I'm not sure. My recollection is that someone
posted a few weeks ago that he has two K3s and
could not load the config file save from one into
his other one. I don't plan to be in a position to
try that myself

On 4/14/14, 8:48 PM, Chester Alderman wrote:
> I think you can use the K3 Utility to save the K3 configuration, rename it
> with your own call sign then save it, copy it to a flash card, and restore
> that configuration on a different K3 from its K3 Utility. I don't know if
> anyone has tried this, but saving and restoring the K3 configuration is
> contained in the K3 Utility.

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w0mu

Re: K3 & M/M Contest stations

Sounds like something for the list...

This would be a handy feature!

Mike W0MU

On 4/14/2014 10:59 PM, Ed Muns wrote:

> K3 configurations are not transferable to other K3s. Some of the
> configuration parameters are specific to the K3, like the gain calibration
> and VCO parameters.
>
> Accordingly, the K3 Utility only allows configurations to be restored to the
> same serial number K3 that they were saved from. This is a good thing.
>
> It would be nice if the radio non-specific configuration parameters were
> transferrable but that feature currently is not available.
>
> Ed W0YK
>
> Phil, W7OX wrote:
> I'm not sure. My recollection is that someone
> posted a few weeks ago that he has two K3s and
> could not load the config file save from one into
> his other one. I don't plan to be in a position to
> try that myself
>
> On 4/14/14, 8:48 PM, Chester Alderman wrote:
>> I think you can use the K3 Utility to save the K3 configuration, rename it
>> with your own call sign then save it, copy it to a flash card, and restore
>> that configuration on a different K3 from its K3 Utility. I don't know if
>> anyone has tried this, but saving and restoring the K3 configuration is
>> contained in the K3 Utility.
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Mike Reublin

Re: K3 & M/M Contest stations

If I can get a list of parameters to be saved/restored (I'm not a contester) -*AND*- someone to agree to test (it can be tedious and time consuming), I'll take a swing at writing something. Windows first, then maybe Mac later. For Windows, a XP, Win7 and Win8 user will be necessary.

Contact me off list, please.

73, Mike NF4L

On Apr 15, 2014, at 1:08 AM, W0MU Mike Fatchett <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sounds like something for the list...
>
> This would be a handy feature!
>
> Mike W0MU
>
> On 4/14/2014 10:59 PM, Ed Muns wrote:
>> K3 configurations are not transferable to other K3s. Some of the
>> configuration parameters are specific to the K3, like the gain calibration
>> and VCO parameters.
>>
>> Accordingly, the K3 Utility only allows configurations to be restored to the
>> same serial number K3 that they were saved from. This is a good thing.
>>
>> It would be nice if the radio non-specific configuration parameters were
>> transferrable but that feature currently is not available.
>>
>> Ed W0YK
>>
>> Phil, W7OX wrote:
>> I'm not sure. My recollection is that someone
>> posted a few weeks ago that he has two K3s and
>> could not load the config file save from one into
>> his other one. I don't plan to be in a position to
>> try that myself
>>
>> On 4/14/14, 8:48 PM, Chester Alderman wrote:
>>> I think you can use the K3 Utility to save the K3 configuration, rename it
>>> with your own call sign then save it, copy it to a flash card, and restore
>>> that configuration on a different K3 from its K3 Utility. I don't know if
>>> anyone has tried this, but saving and restoring the K3 configuration is
>>> contained in the K3 Utility.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Bill Coleman-2

Re: K3 & M/M Contest stations

In reply to this post by Stephen Bloom

On Apr 14, 2014, at 12:14 PM, Stephen Bloom <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have a K3 line at my home station ...and of course am a real fan. I am often on the team at the KL7RA M/M station here. We have an ongoing (good natured) dispute about whether the K3 is a feasible M/M rig (not because of quality, but because people are so personal in the way they like to have it configured). I know I've had no problems at all using K3s in M/S ops. I'm wondering if there are some serious mostly/all K3 M/Ms out there ..and if so ...if I could weasel an invite sometime when I'm not committed up here. I can do pretty high rate on cw, don't eat much and am paper trained :)

NQ4I uses all Ten-Tec Orions (well, there’s one FT-1000MP on the 160m station) in his station. They have tried the K3, once on the 160m station, and once on one of the 15m stations.

The 15m rig ended the contest broken — apparently fried the front-end from all the ambient RF.

The Orions are OK. I really like the sound of the K3 way better.

Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: [hidden email]
Web: http://boringhamradiopart.blogspot.com
Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!"
-- Wilbur Wright, 1901

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