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K3 and KX3 questions for Wayne

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Don Wilhelm

Re: PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

Danny,

Do a test without WSJT running. Set PTT key config to DTR - OFF, then
cycle power on the K3S. Does that setting survive the power cycle? If
so, it is not a K3S problem, look to the WSJT software for the solution.
If it does not survive the power cycle, contact K3Support.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/23/2016 1:08 AM, danny.higgins wrote:

> I have this on my K3S with the latest firmware. I use WSJT to key the K3S via the USB port and I operate in USB mode, not Data. Every time I power the K3S OFF I need to reset the PTT Key config to DTR – OFF.
>
> Danny, G3XVR
>
>
> From: Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO
> Sent: 23 May 2016 04:29
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?
>
> Which radio is it? I've never seen this on my K3.
> If you are running some kind of rig control software, try it with the
> software not running.
>
> 73,
> Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
> Rehovot, Israel
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>
> On 23 May 2016 05:51, Ken Arck wrote:
>> Sounds like a call to Elecraft tomorrow because this is repeatable!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 07:42 PM 5/22/2016, Cady, Fred wrote:
>>> That doesn't sound right. I don't think mine has ever changed.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Fred KE7X
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: Elecraft <[hidden email]> on behalf of Ken
>>> Arck <[hidden email]>
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 4:23 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?
>>>
>>> I notice the PTT KEY selection under CONFIG doesn't appear to be
>>> non-volatile as when the radio is power cycled, it always reverts to
>>> OFF - OFF. I'd like it to stay set to DTR -- RTS but it doesn't
>>>
>>> Even if I leave 13.8 to the radio, turning it OFF and back ON and
>>> that setting reverts.
>>>
>>> Ken
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G3XVR

Re: PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

WSJT not running – K3S not connected to PC. I still need to reset PTT-KEY after a power cycle – it always goes back to OFF-OFF. The same thing happens in USB or DATA modes.

Danny, G3XVR

From: Don Wilhelm
Sent: 23 May 2016 06:26
To: danny.higgins; Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

Danny,

Do a test without WSJT running. Set PTT key config to DTR - OFF, then
cycle power on the K3S. Does that setting survive the power cycle? If
so, it is not a K3S problem, look to the WSJT software for the solution.
If it does not survive the power cycle, contact K3Support.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/23/2016 1:08 AM, danny.higgins wrote:

Bill Frantz

Re: K3 and KX3 questions for Wayne

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

An addition to Jim's comments below.

All 100W rigs, regardless of manufacturer, whether the amp is
part of the radio or a separate unit, develop significant
distortion as the voltage drops. We noticed the effect at CQP
last year. We were operating on batteries as our hosts have a no
generator rule. As our batteries got lower, our 3 stations -- 2
K3s and a KX3 with KXPA100 -- started interfering with each
other. The problem went away when we replaced the batteries with
fresh ones.

This distortion will also affect your signal as received by
distant stations, so it is undesirable in a rig unless you want
a reputation for a bad signal.

One way to be able to get maximum runtime from your batteries is
to use a voltage booster regulator. I use a N8XJK Boost
Regulator from TGE. This device boosts the battery voltage to
the radio. Mine shows 13.9 volts, receive and 13.4 volts key
down at 100W on 160M, even with relatively low batteries. (It
does have a low voltage cut off to protect the batteries.)

The N8XJK Boost Regulator does generate some minor birdies on
receive, so I have it set up to only boost voltage when it
senses RF output from the transmitter.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 5/22/16 at 2:46 PM, [hidden email] (Jim Brown) wrote:

>On Sun,5/22/2016 11:46 AM, N6MQL wrote:
>>Although I appreciate all of your answers I specifically asked
>>these questions of Wayne because I was making a point to let
>>him know of my disapproval of the fact that the KXPA100 amp is
>>incapable of running a full 100 watts on a standard 12v battery.
>
>Michael,
>
>A careful reading of the online data sheet for the KXPA100 is instructive here.
>
>http://www.elecraft.com/KXPA100/kxpa100.htm
>
>The first line says "100 watts at 13.8 V, 1.8 to 29.7 MHz and
>80 watts 50-54 MHz PEP CW/SSB/DATA; ± 1 dB"
>
>Two points: First, the amplifier is rated for 13.8V, NOT 12V.
>Second, the rating is +/1 dB, which is +/- 20% power. Thus, 80W
>on the HF bands is within spec for 13.8V at the amplifier terminals.
>
>The second line says "13.8 VDC powered; 20 A typical current
>drain (11 V with lower output. 15 V max)"
>
>This clearly means that the unit is designed and rated for
>13.8VDC, can be operated from 11V to 15VDC, and will have
>reduced output at lower supply voltages.
>
>Obviously, Ohm's Law dictates that resistance of the DC supply
>conductors will reduce power supply voltage at the amplifier
>terminals, so while we may have 12V or 13.8V at our battery
>terminals, the voltage at the end of 6-12 ft of cable will be a
>bit lower with a 20A load. For example, the drop in 6 ft of #10
>is 0.24v; for #12, it's 0.38V, and for #14, it's 0.6V.
>
>As others have noted, the operating voltage in so-called 12V DC
>power systems using lead-acid batteries is not 12V, but rather
>13.8V. If you buy an AC power supply for ham gear, it will
>likely leave the factory with its voltage regulator set for
>13.8V. Open the manual or the spec sheet for nearly all ham
>gear and you will find the supply voltage specified as 13.8VDC.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | Airline peanut bag: "Produced | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506 | in a facility that processes | 16345
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | peanuts and other nuts." - Duh | Los Gatos,
CA 95032

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EUGENE GABRY

Re: PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

In reply to this post by G3XVR

Same thing happens here with K3S SN 10057. I have no digital SW running or rig control at the time of power down. If I set PTT to DTR and power down for some period of time, PTT defaults back to OFF when power up. Always done that since day one. I thought there was some update done in latest firmware to PTT-KEY line to default those to OFF so when PC was restarted K3S would not go into TX?

Gene, N9TF

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of danny.higgins
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 1:34 AM
To: Don Wilhelm; Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

WSJT not running – K3S not connected to PC. I still need to reset PTT-KEY after a power cycle – it always goes back to OFF-OFF. The same thing happens in USB or DATA modes.

Danny, G3XVR

From: Don Wilhelm
Sent: 23 May 2016 06:26
To: danny.higgins; Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

Danny,

Do a test without WSJT running. Set PTT key config to DTR - OFF, then cycle power on the K3S. Does that setting survive the power cycle? If so, it is not a K3S problem, look to the WSJT software for the solution.
If it does not survive the power cycle, contact K3Support.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/23/2016 1:08 AM, danny.higgins wrote:

> I have this on my K3S with the latest firmware. I use WSJT to key the K3S via the USB port and I operate in USB mode, not Data. Every time I power the K3S OFF I need to reset the PTT Key config to DTR – OFF.
>
> Danny, G3XVR
>
>
> From: Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO
> Sent: 23 May 2016 04:29
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?
>
> Which radio is it? I've never seen this on my K3.
> If you are running some kind of rig control software, try it with the
> software not running.
>
> 73,
> Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
> Rehovot, Israel
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>
> On 23 May 2016 05:51, Ken Arck wrote:
>> Sounds like a call to Elecraft tomorrow because this is repeatable!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 07:42 PM 5/22/2016, Cady, Fred wrote:
>>> That doesn't sound right. I don't think mine has ever changed.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Fred KE7X
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: Elecraft <[hidden email]> on behalf of Ken
>>> Arck <[hidden email]>
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 4:23 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?
>>>
>>> I notice the PTT KEY selection under CONFIG doesn't appear to be
>>> non-volatile as when the radio is power cycled, it always reverts to
>>> OFF - OFF. I'd like it to stay set to DTR -- RTS but it doesn't
>>>
>>> Even if I leave 13.8 to the radio, turning it OFF and back ON and
>>> that setting reverts.
>>>
>>> Ken
> ______________________________________________________________
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EUGENE GABRY

Re: PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

Check the updates to latest firmware version. There is a safe mode and Unsafe mode for the PTT-Key line. In Unsafe mode PTT-Key line should not turn off.

* PTT/KEY USE WITH THE USB PORT IMPROVED: PC applications can activate PTT and KEY at the K3S via the USB port's RTS/DTR signals. However, initial setup of the rig's USB port by the PC may cause pulsed or continuous activation of the transmitter. This can happen if the computer is turned on after the K3S, or if the USB cable is not connected. There is now a "Safe" mode (the default) which disables PTT-KEY transmit until the K3S receives a command via USB, such as a read of the rig's VFO frequency. To turn on safe mode on/off, go into CONFIG:PTT-KEY and tap '1' to select "USB SAFE" or "UNSAFE". Exit the menu and turn the K3S off/on. Applications that use PTT-KEY via USB but never send commands may require "UNSAFE" mode. In this case, unwanted transmit can be avoided by turning the PC on before the K3S.

Gene, N9TF

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gene Gabry
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 7:17 AM
To: 'danny.higgins'; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

Same thing happens here with K3S SN 10057. I have no digital SW running or rig control at the time of power down. If I set PTT to DTR and power down for some period of time, PTT defaults back to OFF when power up. Always done that since day one. I thought there was some update done in latest firmware to PTT-KEY line to default those to OFF so when PC was restarted K3S would not go into TX?

Gene, N9TF

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of danny.higgins
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 1:34 AM
To: Don Wilhelm; Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

WSJT not running – K3S not connected to PC. I still need to reset PTT-KEY after a power cycle – it always goes back to OFF-OFF. The same thing happens in USB or DATA modes.

Danny, G3XVR

From: Don Wilhelm
Sent: 23 May 2016 06:26
To: danny.higgins; Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

Danny,

Do a test without WSJT running. Set PTT key config to DTR - OFF, then cycle power on the K3S. Does that setting survive the power cycle? If so, it is not a K3S problem, look to the WSJT software for the solution.
If it does not survive the power cycle, contact K3Support.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/23/2016 1:08 AM, danny.higgins wrote:

> I have this on my K3S with the latest firmware. I use WSJT to key the K3S via the USB port and I operate in USB mode, not Data. Every time I power the K3S OFF I need to reset the PTT Key config to DTR – OFF.
>
> Danny, G3XVR
>
>
> From: Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO
> Sent: 23 May 2016 04:29
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?
>
> Which radio is it? I've never seen this on my K3.
> If you are running some kind of rig control software, try it with the
> software not running.
>
> 73,
> Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
> Rehovot, Israel
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>
> On 23 May 2016 05:51, Ken Arck wrote:
>> Sounds like a call to Elecraft tomorrow because this is repeatable!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 07:42 PM 5/22/2016, Cady, Fred wrote:
>>> That doesn't sound right. I don't think mine has ever changed.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Fred KE7X
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: Elecraft <[hidden email]> on behalf of Ken
>>> Arck <[hidden email]>
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 4:23 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?
>>>
>>> I notice the PTT KEY selection under CONFIG doesn't appear to be
>>> non-volatile as when the radio is power cycled, it always reverts to
>>> OFF - OFF. I'd like it to stay set to DTR -- RTS but it doesn't
>>>
>>> Even if I leave 13.8 to the radio, turning it OFF and back ON and
>>> that setting reverts.
>>>
>>> Ken
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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Jim Sheldon

Re: PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

In reply to this post by EUGENE GABRY

It may be something unique to the K3S. My older K3 didn't do it, but
the new K3S (#10641) always reverts to PTT KEY OFF-OFF on a power cycle.
must be a glitch in the FW. It IS completely repeatable as the OP
stated. Definitely call Elecraft Support on it.

Jim - W0EB

------ Original Message ------
From: "Gene Gabry" <[hidden email]>
To: "'danny.higgins'" <[hidden email]>;
[hidden email]
Sent: 5/23/2016 7:17:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

>Same thing happens here with K3S SN 10057. I have no digital SW running
>or rig control at the time of power down. If I set PTT to DTR and power
>down for some period of time, PTT defaults back to OFF when power up.
>Always done that since day one. I thought there was some update done in
>latest firmware to PTT-KEY line to default those to OFF so when PC was
>restarted K3S would not go into TX?
>
>
>>>
>>> At 07:42 PM 5/22/2016, Cady, Fred wrote:
>>>> That doesn't sound right. I don't think mine has ever changed.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Fred KE7X
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From: Elecraft <[hidden email]> on behalf of Ken
>>>> Arck <[hidden email]>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 4:23 PM
>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>> Subject: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?
>>>>
>>>> I notice the PTT KEY selection under CONFIG doesn't appear to be
>>>> non-volatile as when the radio is power cycled, it always reverts
>>>>to
>>>> OFF - OFF. I'd like it to stay set to DTR -- RTS but it doesn't
>>>>
>>>> Even if I leave 13.8 to the radio, turning it OFF and back ON and
>>>> that setting reverts.
>>>>
>>>> Ken
>>
>>

Raymond Sills

Re: K3 and KX3 questions for Wayne

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

And following up with Jim’s posting about the KXPA100 specs: At the far end of a QSO, the difference between an 80 watt signal vs a 100 watt signal would be difficult to measure, let alone perceive by ear. In most cases, a 6 dB difference in level is clearly noticeable, and that would be 25 watts vs 100 watts. A 3 dB difference can be heard by most people, but a 1 or 2 dB difference is almost impossible to notice by ear.

So, even if you are operating with just 12 V, at the input to the amp… don’t sweat it. If you can’t make the QSO with 80 watts, you aren’t going to make it with 100 watts… not on HF, with SSB or CW.

73 de Ray
K2ULR
KX3 #211

> On May 22, 2016, at 5:46 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Sun,5/22/2016 11:46 AM, N6MQL wrote:
>> Although I appreciate all of your answers I specifically asked these questions of Wayne because I was making a point to let him know of my disapproval of the fact that the KXPA100 amp is incapable of running a full 100 watts on a standard 12v battery.
>

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Edward R Cole

Re: K3 and KX3 questions for Wayne

In reply to this post by ARRL - N6MQL

I am getting 100w on all HF bands with about 4w drive. Supply
voltage is 13.71v in Rx and runs 13.12v with 100w output and 13.07v
with 110w output with 5.2w drive (tests on 14-MHz into a Bird Power
meter (100H) and Bird Load).
I compared the reading of the 100H element at 50w on 6m with a 50A
element with nearly identical reading.

But on 6m it takes 7.2w drive and I only see 72w output at
13.15v. Advancing drive higher engages the auto-ATT, so it would
suggest drive is high enough.

A little disappointed that 6m did not develop output per spec (80w)
though I guess no one would note the difference of 72 vs 80. I am
running a 50A Astron PS which indicates 13.71v at the PS terminal I
have not measured what that is under load of the KXPA-100 as PS
terminals are difficult to reach. Voltage measured with Fluke model 17B+.

I may try adjusting the Astron to 14.2v to see if that will improve
output; assuming similar 0.6v drop under load would result in 13.6v.

I substituted a No.10 PP power cord for the No.12 cord provided with
the amp with no discernable difference.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
[hidden email]

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briancom

Re: K3 and KX3 questions for Wayne

In reply to this post by Raymond Sills

Ray,

1 dB is generally agreed upon to be the minimum detectible difference in
audio that people can detect.

Of course, these measurements don't include QRM, QSB or AGC action.

Big gun stations will kill to pick up 1 or 2 dB extra gain somewhere.

73 de Brian/K3KO

On 5/23/2016 12:46 PM, Ray Sills wrote:

> And following up with Jim’s posting about the KXPA100 specs: At the far end of a QSO, the difference between an 80 watt signal vs a 100 watt signal would be difficult to measure, let alone perceive by ear. In most cases, a 6 dB difference in level is clearly noticeable, and that would be 25 watts vs 100 watts. A 3 dB difference can be heard by most people, but a 1 or 2 dB difference is almost impossible to notice by ear.
>
> So, even if you are operating with just 12 V, at the input to the amp… don’t sweat it. If you can’t make the QSO with 80 watts, you aren’t going to make it with 100 watts… not on HF, with SSB or CW.
>
> 73 de Ray
> K2ULR
> KX3 #211
>
>
>> On May 22, 2016, at 5:46 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun,5/22/2016 11:46 AM, N6MQL wrote:
>>> Although I appreciate all of your answers I specifically asked these questions of Wayne because I was making a point to let him know of my disapproval of the fact that the KXPA100 amp is incapable of running a full 100 watts on a standard 12v battery.
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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>

G3XVR

Re: PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

In reply to this post by EUGENE GABRY

Yes, I reported that one just after I got S/N 10105. It worked at home using the USB interface, but when I went to IOTA last year it powered up in TX mode when the USB lead was not connected. It took a few phone calls to sort it out, but once we knew what the problem was it was easy to get round.

I still have a problem here. If I configure the K3S to operate via the USB lead, then power down, remove the USB lead, power back up then set the config for PTT_KEY to be DTR-OFF, then the K3S immediately goes into TX and stays there until I re-connect the USB lead. It sounds as though there is still something not quite right with the keying logic yet.

Danny, G3XVR

From: Gene Gabry
Sent: 23 May 2016 13:17
To: 'danny.higgins'; [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

Same thing happens here with K3S SN 10057. I have no digital SW running or rig control at the time of power down. If I set PTT to DTR and power down for some period of time, PTT defaults back to OFF when power up. Always done that since day one. I thought there was some update done in latest firmware to PTT-KEY line to default those to OFF so when PC was restarted K3S would not go into TX?

Gene, N9TF

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of danny.higgins
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 1:34 AM
To: Don Wilhelm; Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

WSJT not running – K3S not connected to PC. I still need to reset PTT-KEY after a power cycle – it always goes back to OFF-OFF. The same thing happens in USB or DATA modes.

Danny, G3XVR

From: Don Wilhelm
Sent: 23 May 2016 06:26
To: danny.higgins; Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

Danny,

Do a test without WSJT running. Set PTT key config to DTR - OFF, then cycle power on the K3S. Does that setting survive the power cycle? If so, it is not a K3S problem, look to the WSJT software for the solution.
If it does not survive the power cycle, contact K3Support.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/23/2016 1:08 AM, danny.higgins wrote:

> I have this on my K3S with the latest firmware. I use WSJT to key the K3S via the USB port and I operate in USB mode, not Data. Every time I power the K3S OFF I need to reset the PTT Key config to DTR – OFF.
>
> Danny, G3XVR
>
>
> From: Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO
> Sent: 23 May 2016 04:29
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?
>
> Which radio is it? I've never seen this on my K3.
> If you are running some kind of rig control software, try it with the
> software not running.
>
> 73,
> Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
> Rehovot, Israel
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>
> On 23 May 2016 05:51, Ken Arck wrote:
>> Sounds like a call to Elecraft tomorrow because this is repeatable!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 07:42 PM 5/22/2016, Cady, Fred wrote:
>>> That doesn't sound right. I don't think mine has ever changed.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Fred KE7X
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: Elecraft <[hidden email]> on behalf of Ken
>>> Arck <[hidden email]>
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 4:23 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?
>>>
>>> I notice the PTT KEY selection under CONFIG doesn't appear to be
>>> non-volatile as when the radio is power cycled, it always reverts to
>>> OFF - OFF. I'd like it to stay set to DTR -- RTS but it doesn't
>>>
>>> Even if I leave 13.8 to the radio, turning it OFF and back ON and
>>> that setting reverts.
>>>
>>> Ken
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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>
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G3XVR

Re: PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

In reply to this post by EUGENE GABRY

Yes, running in UNSAFE mode remembers the PTT-KEY setting.

Danny, G3XVR

From: Gene Gabry
Sent: 23 May 2016 13:30
To: 'danny.higgins'; [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

Check the updates to latest firmware version. There is a safe mode and Unsafe mode for the PTT-Key line. In Unsafe mode PTT-Key line should not turn off.

* PTT/KEY USE WITH THE USB PORT IMPROVED: PC applications can activate PTT and KEY at the K3S via the USB port's RTS/DTR signals. However, initial setup of the rig's USB port by the PC may cause pulsed or continuous activation of the transmitter. This can happen if the computer is turned on after the K3S, or if the USB cable is not connected. There is now a "Safe" mode (the default) which disables PTT-KEY transmit until the K3S receives a command via USB, such as a read of the rig's VFO frequency. To turn on safe mode on/off, go into CONFIG:PTT-KEY and tap '1' to select "USB SAFE" or "UNSAFE". Exit the menu and turn the K3S off/on. Applications that use PTT-KEY via USB but never send commands may require "UNSAFE" mode. In this case, unwanted transmit can be avoided by turning the PC on before the K3S.

Gene, N9TF

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gene Gabry
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 7:17 AM
To: 'danny.higgins'; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

Same thing happens here with K3S SN 10057. I have no digital SW running or rig control at the time of power down. If I set PTT to DTR and power down for some period of time, PTT defaults back to OFF when power up. Always done that since day one. I thought there was some update done in latest firmware to PTT-KEY line to default those to OFF so when PC was restarted K3S would not go into TX?

Gene, N9TF

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of danny.higgins
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 1:34 AM
To: Don Wilhelm; Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

WSJT not running – K3S not connected to PC. I still need to reset PTT-KEY after a power cycle – it always goes back to OFF-OFF. The same thing happens in USB or DATA modes.

Danny, G3XVR

From: Don Wilhelm
Sent: 23 May 2016 06:26
To: danny.higgins; Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

Danny,

Do a test without WSJT running. Set PTT key config to DTR - OFF, then cycle power on the K3S. Does that setting survive the power cycle? If so, it is not a K3S problem, look to the WSJT software for the solution.
If it does not survive the power cycle, contact K3Support.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/23/2016 1:08 AM, danny.higgins wrote:

> I have this on my K3S with the latest firmware. I use WSJT to key the K3S via the USB port and I operate in USB mode, not Data. Every time I power the K3S OFF I need to reset the PTT Key config to DTR – OFF.
>
> Danny, G3XVR
>
>
> From: Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO
> Sent: 23 May 2016 04:29
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?
>
> Which radio is it? I've never seen this on my K3.
> If you are running some kind of rig control software, try it with the
> software not running.
>
> 73,
> Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
> Rehovot, Israel
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>
> On 23 May 2016 05:51, Ken Arck wrote:
>> Sounds like a call to Elecraft tomorrow because this is repeatable!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 07:42 PM 5/22/2016, Cady, Fred wrote:
>>> That doesn't sound right. I don't think mine has ever changed.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Fred KE7X
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: Elecraft <[hidden email]> on behalf of Ken
>>> Arck <[hidden email]>
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 4:23 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?
>>>
>>> I notice the PTT KEY selection under CONFIG doesn't appear to be
>>> non-volatile as when the radio is power cycled, it always reverts to
>>> OFF - OFF. I'd like it to stay set to DTR -- RTS but it doesn't
>>>
>>> Even if I leave 13.8 to the radio, turning it OFF and back ON and
>>> that setting reverts.
>>>
>>> Ken
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
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>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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Mike Reublin NF4L

Re: K3 and KX3 questions for Wayne

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

How accurate do you believe the Bird to be?

73, Mike NF4L

> On May 23, 2016, at 9:35 AM, Edward R Cole <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I am getting 100w on all HF bands with about 4w drive. Supply voltage is 13.71v in Rx and runs 13.12v with 100w output and 13.07v with 110w output with 5.2w drive (tests on 14-MHz into a Bird Power meter (100H) and Bird Load).
> I compared the reading of the 100H element at 50w on 6m with a 50A element with nearly identical reading.
>
> But on 6m it takes 7.2w drive and I only see 72w output at 13.15v. Advancing drive higher engages the auto-ATT, so it would suggest drive is high enough.
>
> A little disappointed that 6m did not develop output per spec (80w) though I guess no one would note the difference of 72 vs 80. I am running a 50A Astron PS which indicates 13.71v at the PS terminal I have not measured what that is under load of the KXPA-100 as PS terminals are difficult to reach. Voltage measured with Fluke model 17B+.
>
> I may try adjusting the Astron to 14.2v to see if that will improve output; assuming similar 0.6v drop under load would result in 13.6v.
>
> I substituted a No.10 PP power cord for the No.12 cord provided with the amp with no discernable difference.
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> http://www.kl7uw.com
> "Kits made by KL7UW"
> Dubus Mag business:
> [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Brown-10

Re: K3 and KX3 questions for Wayne

In reply to this post by briancom

On Mon,5/23/2016 6:36 AM, brian wrote:
>
> 1 dB is generally agreed upon to be the minimum detectible difference
> in audio that people can detect.
>
> Of course, these measurements don't include QRM, QSB or AGC action.

Exactly right on both counts. That "generally agreed" is actually the
result of research done nearly a century ago.

For absolute level (loudness), it takes a change of 6-10 dB to be
perceived as "twice as loud" or "half as loud." But when the desired
signal is near the level of noise or other signals, a change of only a
dB or two can make a BIG difference in whether or not we make the QSO.
One of the things I did professionally was mix live sound, both for
sound reinforcement and recording/broadcast. When a given instrument or
voice needed to be louder to balance well, the needed change was rarely
more than a dB or two unless I had the mix very wrong to begin with or a
musician changed something a lot (like moving too far from the mic, or
playing a different instrument).

So -- when conditions are marginal (on the edge of the other guy's
noise), every dB matters. That's why the best operators work to optimize
their antenna systems and squeezing every last dB of loss out of the coax.

73, Jim K9YC

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Nr4c

Re: PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

In reply to this post by G3XVR

Are you using the Power switch on the radio or by chance turning OFF the power-supply?

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On May 23, 2016, at 2:33 AM, danny.higgins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> WSJT not running – K3S not connected to PC. I still need to reset PTT-KEY after a power cycle – it always goes back to OFF-OFF. The same thing happens in USB or DATA modes.
>
> Danny, G3XVR
>
> From: Don Wilhelm
> Sent: 23 May 2016 06:26
> To: danny.higgins; Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?
>
> Danny,
>
> Do a test without WSJT running. Set PTT key config to DTR - OFF, then
> cycle power on the K3S. Does that setting survive the power cycle? If
> so, it is not a K3S problem, look to the WSJT software for the solution.
> If it does not survive the power cycle, contact K3Support.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>> On 5/23/2016 1:08 AM, danny.higgins wrote:
>> I have this on my K3S with the latest firmware. I use WSJT to key the K3S via the USB port and I operate in USB mode, not Data. Every time I power the K3S OFF I need to reset the PTT Key config to DTR – OFF.
>>
>> Danny, G3XVR
>>
>>
>> From: Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO
>> Sent: 23 May 2016 04:29
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?
>>
>> Which radio is it? I've never seen this on my K3.
>> If you are running some kind of rig control software, try it with the
>> software not running.
>>
>> 73,
>> Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
>> Rehovot, Israel
>> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>>
>>> On 23 May 2016 05:51, Ken Arck wrote:
>>> Sounds like a call to Elecraft tomorrow because this is repeatable!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At 07:42 PM 5/22/2016, Cady, Fred wrote:
>>>> That doesn't sound right. I don't think mine has ever changed.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Fred KE7X
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From: Elecraft <[hidden email]> on behalf of Ken
>>>> Arck <[hidden email]>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 4:23 PM
>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>> Subject: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?
>>>>
>>>> I notice the PTT KEY selection under CONFIG doesn't appear to be
>>>> non-volatile as when the radio is power cycled, it always reverts to
>>>> OFF - OFF. I'd like it to stay set to DTR -- RTS but it doesn't
>>>>
>>>> Even if I leave 13.8 to the radio, turning it OFF and back ON and
>>>> that setting reverts.
>>>>
>>>> Ken
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
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Edward R Cole

Re: K3 and KX3 questions for Wayne

In reply to this post by ARRL - N6MQL

Mike,

Within 2-3w based on RF ammeter reading of 1.40 amps that match
I^2*R=100w. 50-MHz 50w and HF-100w Bird elements were within 1w
agreement at 50w output on 6m. And long use of the meter on many
bands with multiple rigs.

Of course Bird rates +/- 5% of full reading which would be +/- 5w but
then if 72w reading were actually 77w then the amp is outputting 117w
on 20m. Also Bird appears to be good agreement with the KVPA-100 Bar
meter which reads 70 on 6m, and the power meter on my Drake MN2000
antenna tuner shows same output as the Bird.

Input SWR of the amp is 1.4 on 6m vs 1.0 on HF which may suggest
something. I am going to swap out coax lines everywhere and
re-measure. But I had also assumed the Astron was running 14.2v from
measurement years ago when installed, so may have shifted down with aging.

72w vs 80w is nitpicking but I had hoped it would show specs on all
bands considering its cost. Interesting that 6m takes nearly twice
the drive power that is needed on HF. Perhaps the limiting factor is
the matching transformers. If so that is a disappointment.

6m band is most demanding with often weak-signal conditions so every
watt is important. I traded my 150w Mirage 6m amp to buy the
KXPA-100 realizing that it was rated at nearly half the output on
6m. I plan some improvements to my 6m station this year which will
compensate: 1) adding a second 6-element yagi, 2) finishing a 1100w
6m amplifier which can be run at 800w on SSB with 8w drive from my
KX3. But the KXPA-100 will likely be used for normal daily use and
QRO reserved for extreme DX operating (including eme and ms).

If I find the issue was with coax cables I will report that after
testing. Also will provide measurements after raising Astron 50A to 14.2v.

73, Ed - KL7UW

>How accurate do you believe the Bird to be?
>
>73, Mike NF4L

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
[hidden email]

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Gary Smith-2

Re: PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

In reply to this post by Jim Sheldon

I just checked on my K3s and after the multiple off/on cycles, the
PTT-KEY was and still remains set to RTS-DTR and I'm using the latest
firmware.

Gary
KA1J

> It may be something unique to the K3S. My older K3 didn't do it, but
> the new K3S (#10641) always reverts to PTT KEY OFF-OFF on a power cycle.
> must be a glitch in the FW. It IS completely repeatable as the OP
> stated. Definitely call Elecraft Support on it.
>
> Jim - W0EB
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Gene Gabry" <[hidden email]>
> To: "'danny.higgins'" <[hidden email]>;
> [hidden email]
> Sent: 5/23/2016 7:17:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?
>
> >Same thing happens here with K3S SN 10057. I have no digital SW running
> >or rig control at the time of power down. If I set PTT to DTR and power
> >down for some period of time, PTT defaults back to OFF when power up.
> >Always done that since day one. I thought there was some update done in
> >latest firmware to PTT-KEY line to default those to OFF so when PC was
> >restarted K3S would not go into TX?
> >
> >
> >>>
> >>> At 07:42 PM 5/22/2016, Cady, Fred wrote:
> >>>> That doesn't sound right. I don't think mine has ever changed.
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>> Fred KE7X
> >>>>
> >>>> ________________________________________
> >>>> From: Elecraft <[hidden email]> on behalf of Ken
> >>>> Arck <[hidden email]>
> >>>> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 4:23 PM
> >>>> To: [hidden email]
> >>>> Subject: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?
> >>>>
> >>>> I notice the PTT KEY selection under CONFIG doesn't appear to be
> >>>> non-volatile as when the radio is power cycled, it always reverts
> >>>>to
> >>>> OFF - OFF. I'd like it to stay set to DTR -- RTS but it doesn't
> >>>>
> >>>> Even if I leave 13.8 to the radio, turning it OFF and back ON and
> >>>> that setting reverts.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ken
> >>
> >>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

EUGENE GABRY

Re: PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

Hi Gary,

Firmware 5.33 was the improvement for this. See below in my message. (posted earlier this morning). If you have Unsafe mode toggled these settings will not default back to OFF-OFF.

Even in the Safe mode, I have noticed the rig needs to have been powered down for more than a few seconds/minutes to reset to OFF-OFF. A test I ran this morning was to turn off rig "first" then power supply off and kept off for 5 minutes each, SAFE MODE and UNSAFE MODE, powered up the supply first then the K3S, and found in SAFE MODE the PTT-KEY had reset to OFF-OFF, but not in UNSAFE MODE.

"* PTT/KEY USE WITH THE USB PORT IMPROVED: PC applications can activate PTT and KEY at the K3S via the USB port's RTS/DTR signals. However, initial setup of the rig's USB port by the PC may cause pulsed or continuous activation of the transmitter. This can happen if the computer is turned on after the K3S, or if the USB cable is not connected. There is now a "Safe" mode (the default) which disables PTT-KEY transmit until the K3S receives a command via USB, such as a read of the rig's VFO frequency. To turn on safe mode on/off, go into CONFIG:PTT-KEY and tap '1' to select "USB SAFE" or "UNSAFE". Exit the menu and turn the K3S off/on. Applications that use PTT-KEY via USB but never send commands may require "UNSAFE" mode. In this case, unwanted transmit can be avoided by turning the PC on before the K3S."

73 Gene, N9TF

K3S 10057

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gary Smith" <[hidden email]>
To: "elecraft" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 1:57:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

I just checked on my K3s and after the multiple off/on cycles, the
PTT-KEY was and still remains set to RTS-DTR and I'm using the latest
firmware.

Gary
KA1J

Wes Stewart-2

Re: K3 and KX3 questions for Wayne

In reply to this post by Bill Frantz

I can tell you from first hand testing of both a K3 and a K3S, in addition to
supply voltage, frequency, drive level, load Z and the phase of the moon all
effect TX IMD. DO NOT assume that just because you have the supply voltage at
the high end you are done. DO NOT assume that good IMD on 80-meters means good
IMD on 10-meters. ARRL should learn this.

For those with the equipment and inclination, some measurements might be
illuminating. The K3(S) makes it fairly easy since a two-tone generator is
built in. All that is needed is a spectrum analyzer to look at the output. I
happened to use an SDR-IQ and SpectraVue software, but even a second, carefully
calibrated and operated receiver will suffice. It will be laborious but
informative. (BTW, my measured data correlated within 1 dB, or less, to that
measured by Elecraft. You just have to know what you're doing.)

Wes N7WS

On 5/23/2016 12:42 AM, Bill Frantz wrote:

> An addition to Jim's comments below.
>
> All 100W rigs, regardless of manufacturer, whether the amp is part of the
> radio or a separate unit, develop significant distortion as the voltage drops.
> We noticed the effect at CQP last year. We were operating on batteries as our
> hosts have a no generator rule. As our batteries got lower, our 3 stations --
> 2 K3s and a KX3 with KXPA100 -- started interfering with each other. The
> problem went away when we replaced the batteries with fresh ones.
>
> This distortion will also affect your signal as received by distant stations,
> so it is undesirable in a rig unless you want a reputation for a bad signal.
>
> One way to be able to get maximum runtime from your batteries is to use a
> voltage booster regulator. I use a N8XJK Boost Regulator from TGE. This device
> boosts the battery voltage to the radio. Mine shows 13.9 volts, receive and
> 13.4 volts key down at 100W on 160M, even with relatively low batteries. (It
> does have a low voltage cut off to protect the batteries.)
>
> The N8XJK Boost Regulator does generate some minor birdies on receive, so I
> have it set up to only boost voltage when it senses RF output from the
> transmitter.
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV

G3XVR

Re: PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

In reply to this post by Nr4c

No, I always power OFF using the K3S Power Switch.

Regards,

Danny Higgins

From: Nr4c
Sent: 23 May 2016 18:58
To: danny.higgins
Cc: Don Wilhelm; Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PTT KEY CONFIG setting volatile?

Are you using the Power switch on the radio or by chance turning OFF the power-supply?

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill