K3 and PSK

[Ron W3ZV]

Setting up my K3 for PSK31. Using PC with on board sound. (Intel
Integrated Audio). Stereo cable from K3 to sound card.  I am looking to
adjust  ALC for 4 bars using the line in adjustment. I find that a level
change of one unit on K3 (i.e. 5 to 6) changes ALC from zero bars
showing to 5 bars showing. Adjusting sound card levels move the onset
point but doesn't change the behavior. Am I missing something or do I
have something wrong with my setup?

Ron W3ZV


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[KK7P]

> Setting up my K3 for PSK31. Using PC with on board sound. (Intel
> Integrated Audio). Stereo cable from K3 to sound card.  I am looking to
> adjust  ALC for 4 bars using the line in adjustment. I find that a level
> change of one unit on K3 (i.e. 5 to 6) changes ALC from zero bars
> showing to 5 bars showing. Adjusting sound card levels move the onset
> point but doesn't change the behavior. Am I missing something or do I
> have something wrong with my setup?

5 bars is OK.  The adjustment is a bit coarse - and the display a bit
tight! - for some combinations of sound card levels.

73,

Lyle KK7P
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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Ron,

I would suggest that you reduce the soundcard output level and increase
the K3 line in setting for smoother control of the audio level.  I run
my K3 line in at 12 to 13 and adjust the soundcard level to achieve the
proper number of ALC bars (4) - my soundcard controls are at the
mid-point when it is adjusted correctly.
I am using an internal SoundBlaster Live 24 soundcard. Your results may
depend on your particular soundcard as well as the K3 settings.

73,
Don W3FPR

Ron W3ZV wrote:

> Setting up my K3 for PSK31. Using PC with on board sound. (Intel
> Integrated Audio). Stereo cable from K3 to sound card.  I am looking to
> adjust  ALC for 4 bars using the line in adjustment. I find that a level
> change of one unit on K3 (i.e. 5 to 6) changes ALC from zero bars
> showing to 5 bars showing. Adjusting sound card levels move the onset
> point but doesn't change the behavior. Am I missing something or do I
> have something wrong with my setup?
>
> Ron W3ZV
>  
>

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[Robert Hall - KE7VHF]

Is there somewhere where I might find a more exhaustive step by step discussion of seting up sound levels on the pc while connected to the K3. I may be a little dense and have not felt entirely comfortable with what I have read in the manual. Maybe this discussion might include config menu items and what the different settings would do to effect the way the K3 behaves with different modes?
 
A good example of this is the idea of setting the number of bars for pc output, correct? Would this be done for actual rf output or would this be done via setting tx to test?
 
thank you,
 
Rob KE7VHF
 
Robert Hall
www.RobertHall.com

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 8:20 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ron,

I would suggest that you reduce the soundcard output level and increase
the K3 line in setting for smoother control of the audio level.  I run
my K3 line in at 12 to 13 and adjust the soundcard level to achieve the
proper number of ALC bars (4) - my soundcard controls are at the
mid-point when it is adjusted correctly.
I am using an internal SoundBlaster Live 24 soundcard. Your results may
depend on your particular soundcard as well as the K3 settings.

73,
Don W3FPR

Ron W3ZV wrote:
> Setting up my K3 for PSK31. Using PC with on board sound. (Intel
> Integrated Audio). Stereo cable from K3 to sound card.  I am looking to
> adjust  ALC for 4 bars using the line in adjustment. I find that a level
> change of one unit on K3 (i.e. 5 to 6) changes ALC from zero bars
> showing to 5 bars showing. Adjusting sound card levels move the onset
> point but doesn't change the behavior. Am I missing something or do I
> have something wrong with my setup?
>
> Ron W3ZV
>
>
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[KK7P]

> Is there somewhere where I might find a more exhaustive step by step
> discussion of seting up sound levels on the pc while connected to the
> K3...

Not that I am aware of.

Best to learn by doing.  Put the radio in TX TEST mode and play with the
LINE IN GAIN and the PC soundcard program.  Don't get too worried about
the ALC bars.  4 or 5 bars is fine. In some cases the bars fluctuate a bit.

When things look good, get out of test mode and goon the air :-)

73,

Lyle KK7P
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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Robert,

I don't know of any step-by-step instructions, the whole picture is
complicated because of the variety of computer soundcards that could be
used.  As far as the K3 is concerned, the procedure is simple - adjust
the line-in gain setting, much as you would with the mic gain.

Yes, the level can be set using TX TEST - and it is best if you do it
that way because you don't both other hams with on-the-air signals.

Normally there are two controls to work with - the "LINE" gain setting
in the K3 and the Line-out soundcard controls on your PC.  The output
from soundcards vary, so you will just have to manipulate them and see
what happens.  For starters, I would suggest setting the soundcard
line-out level at the slider midpoint, then adjust the LINE gain setting
on the K3.  You should strive for settings that will allow you some
later adjustment room if possible, but if your soundcard output level is
very low or very high, that may not be possible.

You want to have a maximum of 4 bars of the ALC meter illuminated.  5
bars is where the 'real' ALC comes into operation, and the bars below
the 5th act more like as a 'VU meter'.  You want the level as high as
possible without actually driving it into the ALC region (5th bar).

Robert Hall wrote:

> Is there somewhere where I might find a more exhaustive step by step
> discussion of seting up sound levels on the pc while connected to the
> K3. I may be a little dense and have not felt entirely comfortable
> with what I have read in the manual. Maybe this discussion might
> include config menu items and what the different settings would do to
> effect the way the K3 behaves with different modes?
>  
> A good example of this is the idea of setting the number of bars for
> pc output, correct? Would this be done for actual rf output or would
> this be done via setting tx to test?
>  
> thank you,
>  
> Rob KE7VHF
>  
> Robert Hall
> www.RobertHall.com <http://www.RobertHall.com>
>

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[Julian, G4ILO]

Robert Hall - KE7VHF wrote

Is there somewhere where I might find a more exhaustive step by step
discussion of seting up sound levels on the pc while connected to the K3. I
may be a little dense and have not felt entirely comfortable with what I
have read in the manual. Maybe this discussion might include config menu
items and what the different settings would do to effect the way the K3
behaves with different modes?

A good example of this is the idea of setting the number of bars for pc
output, correct? Would this be done for actual rf output or would this be
done via setting tx to test?

It really would be impossible to do this because the output level and input sensitivity of different sound cards will vary. The output even varies from one program to another.

The receive side is easy enough, and can be adjusted until you see a faint moving background on the waterfall with a quiet band, and the signals stand out clear.

On transmit I would suggest that you just increase the audio going in to the radio using a combination of the slider on the PC mixer and the MIC control, until the output on the power meter reads the power you want. Ideally you should do this while getting the software to send a Tune signal - a pure tone, and aim for 50W or less. A modulated PSK signal should give a reading of less than half the peak power, so no more than three bars on the power scale.

I'm unhappy with the advice to set the level to 4 or 5 bars on the ALC scale because when I do this my K3 puts out twice the power set on the POWER control making it far too easy to overdrive the PA. I prefer to adjust the input level until the output power matches what it says on the power control. Then I can use the power control intuitively to set the power the same way it works in CW and SSB modes. For me, the amount of input needed to do this is some way below the point at which ANY ALC blobs appear.

[Robert Hall - KE7VHF]

Don, Lyle, Greg,

 

You guys are fabulous!

 

Thank you. I would really like to make sure I have things tied down for Feb.

 

73's

 

Rob

 

KE7VHF

 

Robert Hall
www.RobertHall.com

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

Robert,

I don't know of any step-by-step instructions, the whole picture is complicated because of the variety of computer soundcards that could be used.  As far as the K3 is concerned, the procedure is simple - adjust the line-in gain setting, much as you would with the mic gain.

Yes, the level can be set using TX TEST - and it is best if you do it that way because you don't both other hams with on-the-air signals.

Normally there are two controls to work with - the "LINE" gain setting in the K3 and the Line-out soundcard controls on your PC.  The output from soundcards vary, so you will just have to manipulate them and see what happens.  For starters, I would suggest setting the soundcard line-out level at the slider midpoint, then adjust the LINE gain setting on the K3.  You should strive for settings that will allow you some later adjustment room if possible, but if your soundcard output level is very low or very high, that may not be possible.

You want to have a maximum of 4 bars of the ALC meter illuminated.  5 bars is where the 'real' ALC comes into operation, and the bars below the 5th act more like as a 'VU meter'.  You want the level as high as possible without actually driving it into the ALC region (5th bar).

Robert Hall wrote:

Is there somewhere where I might find a more exhaustive step by step discussion of seting up sound levels on the pc while connected to the K3. I may be a little dense and have not felt entirely comfortable with what I have read in the manual. Maybe this discussion might include config menu items and what the different settings would do to effect the way the K3 behaves with different modes?
 A good example of this is the idea of setting the number of bars for pc output, correct? Would this be done for actual rf output or would this be done via setting tx to test?
 thank you,
 Rob KE7VHF
 Robert Hall

www.RobertHall.com <http://www.RobertHall.com>

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[KK7P]

> I'm unhappy with the advice to set the level to 4 or 5 bars on the ALC scale
> because when I do this my K3 puts out twice the power set on the POWER
> control making it far too easy to overdrive the PA. I prefer to adjust the
> input level until the output power matches what it says on the power
> control. Then I can use the power control intuitively to set the power the
> same way it works in CW and SSB modes. For me, the amount of input needed to
> do this is some way below the point at which ANY ALC blobs appear.

If you really must do this, you should probably set CONFIG:TX ALC OFF
once you've adjusted your power level using the PWR control. Otherwise
the ALC system will see the Tx output not being what was requested and
will increase the gain, leading to power creep and all sorts of other
problems.  And a side effect is that when you next request power, you'll
get alot more than you asked for because the ALC loop now believes the
Tx chain gain is far less than it actually is.  The ALC 5 bar level is
the level to which all transmit system gains are balanced -- at least
those that use any sort of audio as the ultimate source.

In the latest Beta code I tried very hard to balance levels so that
CONFIG:TXG VCE can be set to 0.0dB.  This might have been affecting your
power control issues.

I did extensive testing with Olivia (125/8 through 2000/64) and WSPR to
be sure the power levels are as requested and stable.  At least on my
K3, they seem to be.

73,

Lyle KK7P
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[Julian, G4ILO]

Lyle Johnson wrote

If you really must do this, you should probably set CONFIG:TX ALC OFF
once you've adjusted your power level using the PWR control. Otherwise
the ALC system will see the Tx output not being what was requested and
will increase the gain, leading to power creep and all sorts of other
problems.  And a side effect is that when you next request power, you'll
get alot more than you asked for because the ALC loop now believes the
Tx chain gain is far less than it actually is.  The ALC 5 bar level is
the level to which all transmit system gains are balanced -- at least
those that use any sort of audio as the ultimate source.

If that's how it is supposed to work, why doesn't it REDUCE the gain when it sees the Tx output being MORE than what is requested? Because it doesn't. That's the point.

In the latest Beta code I tried very hard to balance levels so that
CONFIG:TXG VCE can be set to 0.0dB.  This might have been affecting your
power control issues.

The trouble with this is that TXG VCE is an SSB mode adjustment. I don't have excessive power in SSB mode therefore I don't wish to reduce the TXG VCE. If there was a separate TXG setting for DATA as others have suggested on previous occasions, this might be the solution. Although at present, the minimum -3.0dB setting is not quite sufficient to get the output down to the correct level.

<quote?
I did extensive testing with Olivia (125/8 through 2000/64) and WSPR to
be sure the power levels are as requested and stable.  At least on my
K3, they seem to be.
</quote>

I check the power using a TUNE signal (pure sine wave). I would expect the output power to be the same in DATA as if the same tone is transmitted in SSB mode, and the same as when keying down in CW mode.