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K3 and Susan's audio complaint

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Mike Scott-7

K3 and Susan's audio complaint

I agree with Lou about Susan's CW audio complaint but I did not once. When I
read Susan's plaint I thought that she probably has not gone through the K3
audio modifications. There was a time that I could not listen to the K3 in
CW mode for very long; it was like fingernails scratching on a blackboard.
The sound so grated on my nerves that I needed to turn it off or stop
operating CW altogether. Somewhere along the path after the audio low pass
filter, the audio output coupling capacitor modifications, and firmware
modifications enhancing LF response the K3 CW mode audio mellowed for me,
actually night and day. The other thing that make a difference is AGC
settings. AGC settings effect IF gain which can raise background noise
level. All of the comments about running RF gain lower come to play also but
I now find that I normally run full RF gain and I am not bothered by audio
issues anymore.

So Susan, what have you done to fix your audio problems in CW? I propose
that you can remedy this.

>>I'm surprised you find the CW mode so noisy. I find that one of the best

things about the DSP in CW mode is that the more you narrow it, the more the

noise disappears. If the signal is strong enough, I can get rid of the

noise completely. Lou WA3MIX

AE6WA

Mike Scott

Tarzana, CA

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Brett Howard

Re: K3 and Susan's audio complaint

I've had the same experience and the LPF board being added to my DSP
board is what was the final nail in the coffin to the annoying sound.
The low audio extension by changing caps here and there helped a
little but the low pass filter to help pull the high frequency stuff
out of the audio signature.

~Brett (N7MG)

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:49 PM, Mike Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I agree with Lou about Susan's CW audio complaint but I did not once. When I
> read Susan's plaint I thought that she probably has not gone through the K3
> audio modifications. There was a time that I could not listen to the K3 in
> CW mode for very long; it was like fingernails scratching on a blackboard.
> The sound so grated on my nerves that I needed to turn it off or stop
> operating CW altogether. Somewhere along the path after the audio low pass
> filter, the audio output coupling capacitor modifications, and firmware
> modifications enhancing LF response the K3 CW mode audio mellowed for me,
> actually night and day. The other thing that make a difference is AGC
> settings. AGC settings effect IF gain which can raise background noise
> level. All of the comments about running RF gain lower come to play also but
> I now find that I normally run full RF gain and I am not bothered by audio
> issues anymore.
>
>
>
> So Susan, what have you done to fix your audio problems in CW? I propose
> that you can remedy this.
>
>
>
>
>
>>>I'm surprised you find the CW mode so noisy. I find that one of the best
>
> things about the DSP in CW mode is that the more you narrow it, the more the
>
> noise disappears. If the signal is strong enough, I can get rid of the
>
> noise completely. Lou WA3MIX
>
>
>
> AE6WA
>
> Mike Scott
>
> Tarzana, CA
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Mike Scott-7

Re: K3 and Susan's audio complaint

I think K3 HW modifications were the nail in the coffin for me also. I was
asked off line what my AGC setting are. This was my reply...
AE6WA
Mike Scott
Tarzana, CA

I have AGC settings as follows:

AGC Decay Soft
AGC Hold 0.15
AGC Pulse Nor (Default)
AGC Slope 12 (Default)
AGC Threshold 003
AGC -F 120 (Default)
AGC -S 020 (Default)

I might be running AGC Slope higher but I want to hear the difference in
signal strength in the two receivers when running in diversity mode. Wayne
created the soft decay and AGC hold settings in the case that
intermodulation distortion caused by noise modulating AGC gain was the
culprit.

I don't know the exact modification that changed things for me as too many
changes were made near the same time. Perhaps the hardware modifications
were the big help (LP filter, 100 uF audio out coupling). Both of the HW
mods are on the revised RF board. Wayne's FW mod to extend low frequency
audio capability may have helped also. I was a beta tester of the LP filter
modification and that came almost at the same time as Wayne's FW
modification.

I suspect audio artifacts above the audio pass band were effecting me in the
original case, artifacts that Wayne couldn't hear. I am surprised and
grateful that he persevered to help me given that he thought everything was
swell... Psychoacoustics is strange and probably very personal...

-----Original Message-----
From: Brett Howard [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 12:25 AM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and Susan's audio complaint

I've had the same experience and the LPF board being added to my DSP board
is what was the final nail in the coffin to the annoying sound.
The low audio extension by changing caps here and there helped a little but
the low pass filter to help pull the high frequency stuff out of the audio
signature.

~Brett (N7MG)

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:49 PM, Mike Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I agree with Lou about Susan's CW audio complaint but I did not once.
> When I read Susan's plaint I thought that she probably has not gone
> through the K3 audio modifications. There was a time that I could not
> listen to the K3 in CW mode for very long; it was like fingernails
scratching on a blackboard.

> The sound so grated on my nerves that I needed to turn it off or stop
> operating CW altogether. Somewhere along the path after the audio low
> pass filter, the audio output coupling capacitor modifications, and
> firmware modifications enhancing LF response the K3 CW mode audio
> mellowed for me, actually night and day. The other thing that make a
> difference is AGC settings. AGC settings effect IF gain which can
> raise background noise level. All of the comments about running RF
> gain lower come to play also but I now find that I normally run full
> RF gain and I am not bothered by audio issues anymore.
>
>
>
> So Susan, what have you done to fix your audio problems in CW? I
> propose that you can remedy this.
>
>
>
>
>
>>>I'm surprised you find the CW mode so noisy. I find that one of the
>>>best
>
> things about the DSP in CW mode is that the more you narrow it, the
> more the
>
> noise disappears. If the signal is strong enough, I can get rid of
> the
>
> noise completely. Lou WA3MIX
>
>
>
> AE6WA
>
> Mike Scott
>
> Tarzana, CA
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

The Smiths

Re: K3 and Susan's audio complaint

Mike,

You have that Agc turning on as soon as, well, pretty much ANY signal passes through it. Having that Threshold at 3 seems extreme to me. Keeping the Slope at 12 I can kind of understand if you had your slope set to 5 or 6 perhaps, but it looks like pretty much everything you listen to has been compressed to death... I'm not even sure how you can differentiate different strength signals anymore. Just my thoughts on that.
As for the AGC Decay on soft, I thought that Wayne had said that you were supposed to run your AGC in Slow in order for that to even work... No? That's the one thing you didn't mention.

> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 05:00:52 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and Susan's audio complaint
>
> I think K3 HW modifications were the nail in the coffin for me also. I was
> asked off line what my AGC setting are. This was my reply...
> AE6WA
> Mike Scott
> Tarzana, CA
>
> I have AGC settings as follows:
>
> AGC Decay Soft
> AGC Hold 0.15
> AGC Pulse Nor (Default)
> AGC Slope 12 (Default)
> AGC Threshold 003
> AGC -F 120 (Default)
> AGC -S 020 (Default)
>
> I might be running AGC Slope higher but I want to hear the difference in
> signal strength in the two receivers when running in diversity mode. Wayne
> created the soft decay and AGC hold settings in the case that
> intermodulation distortion caused by noise modulating AGC gain was the
> culprit.
>
> I don't know the exact modification that changed things for me as too many
> changes were made near the same time. Perhaps the hardware modifications
> were the big help (LP filter, 100 uF audio out coupling). Both of the HW
> mods are on the revised RF board. Wayne's FW mod to extend low frequency
> audio capability may have helped also. I was a beta tester of the LP filter
> modification and that came almost at the same time as Wayne's FW
> modification.
>
> I suspect audio artifacts above the audio pass band were effecting me in the
> original case, artifacts that Wayne couldn't hear. I am surprised and
> grateful that he persevered to help me given that he thought everything was
> swell... Psychoacoustics is strange and probably very personal...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brett Howard [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 12:25 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and Susan's audio complaint
>
> I've had the same experience and the LPF board being added to my DSP board
> is what was the final nail in the coffin to the annoying sound.
> The low audio extension by changing caps here and there helped a little but
> the low pass filter to help pull the high frequency stuff out of the audio
> signature.
>
> ~Brett (N7MG)
>
> On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:49 PM, Mike Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I agree with Lou about Susan's CW audio complaint but I did not once.
> > When I read Susan's plaint I thought that she probably has not gone
> > through the K3 audio modifications. There was a time that I could not
> > listen to the K3 in CW mode for very long; it was like fingernails
> scratching on a blackboard.
> > The sound so grated on my nerves that I needed to turn it off or stop
> > operating CW altogether. Somewhere along the path after the audio low
> > pass filter, the audio output coupling capacitor modifications, and
> > firmware modifications enhancing LF response the K3 CW mode audio
> > mellowed for me, actually night and day. The other thing that make a
> > difference is AGC settings. AGC settings effect IF gain which can
> > raise background noise level. All of the comments about running RF
> > gain lower come to play also but I now find that I normally run full
> > RF gain and I am not bothered by audio issues anymore.
> >
> >
> >
> > So Susan, what have you done to fix your audio problems in CW? I
> > propose that you can remedy this.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>>I'm surprised you find the CW mode so noisy. I find that one of the
> >>>best
> >
> > things about the DSP in CW mode is that the more you narrow it, the
> > more the
> >
> > noise disappears. If the signal is strong enough, I can get rid of
> > the
> >
> > noise completely. Lou WA3MIX
> >
> >
> >
> > AE6WA
> >
> > Mike Scott
> >
> > Tarzana, CA
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html