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K3 band stacking suggestion

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inventor61 .

K3 band stacking suggestion

Dave

I don't post here often despite my lurking daily since 1999.

Your comments (and related others) about K3 band stacking registers causes
me to pop up out of the weeds. I don't currently own a K3 but had one for
a while and really liked it ... except for the lack of this feature,
predicated mostly on the fact that the radio doesn't have dedicated band
select buttons.

However, the KPA500 **does** have band-dedicated buttons.

It would be quite useful if the firmware supported a 'mode' setting where a
user could elect to make his/her KPA500 band buttons act as band stacking
registers. As was mentioned here in another recent message, this MODE
setting could shut off the feature (perhaps the default) and then let the
user pick whether he/she wanted 2, 3, or 4 registers. Indeed, the feature
could be enabled on a per-band basis, if you wanted to get fancy, but it's
not necessary.

I fully recognize that this feature would then be available only to those
who both (a) owned KPA500 amps and (b) had them connected to the K3 with
the interface cable. **

This is a group of Elecraft owners which I plan to re-join as soon as I am
able ... and if I knew that this feature was there, I would accelerate that
rejoining. Quickly. With the purchase *of an entire new K-line*. Yes, I
feel THAT strongly about the feature.

Steve KZ1X/4
K1 #1181
K2 # 771

** An alternative for those who didn't have a KPA500 is an outboard
accessory box including a small microcontroller to create the command
sequences the amp would otherwise send, and a set of push buttons with band
labels (160-80-40-30 etc.). I would consider making such a 3rd party
accessory available.
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Dave Perry N4QS

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

Steve,

I do have the KPA500 and your email gave me the idea for another workaround for a lack of a bandstacking feature on the K3. I decided to start using the numeric memories 0 - 9 for storing multipliers in the CQ WW. I normally use these memories to store band memories from 160 through 6 meters. So I guess I will abandon the use of the first 10 numeric memories for band changes and use the band change buttons on the KPA500 for that purpose. I can also use my logging software to change bands.

So to save a pileup (multiplier) in the number 1 memory, I hit V>M and then the 1 key. For the second pileup, I hit the V>M key and the 2 key. I can do this for up to 10 memories. To recall a memory, I hit M>V and the number key. This is only a rough workaround and definitely not an ideal solution. I would still like to see a quicker way to enter and recall memories -- as described in my earlier posts. In essence, we should only have to hit one button to memorize and one button to go into recall mode and then have some way to scroll through the stacked, saved memories. I like the suggestion from someone that we use the Mode key to do the scrolling. I hope Aptos is following this thread.

BTW, I would not hold off on purchasing a K-Line (which I have) just due to the lack of this feature. The radio, panadapter and amplifier are so superior in so many other areas, that I find the lack of a bandstacking feature only a mild inconvenience.

I really do hope that the powers to be in Aptos will come up with a way to add bandstacking -- like they did with the super APF feature.

Dave, N4QS
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Jackson
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 1:18 PM
Subject: K3 band stacking suggestion

Dave

I don't post here often despite my lurking daily since 1999.

Your comments (and related others) about K3 band stacking registers causes me to pop up out of the weeds. I don't currently own a K3 but had one for a while and really liked it ... except for the lack of this feature, predicated mostly on the fact that the radio doesn't have dedicated band select buttons.

However, the KPA500 **does** have band-dedicated buttons.

It would be quite useful if the firmware supported a 'mode' setting where a user could elect to make his/her KPA500 band buttons act as band stacking registers. As was mentioned here in another recent message, this MODE setting could shut off the feature (perhaps the default) and then let the user pick whether he/she wanted 2, 3, or 4 registers. Indeed, the feature could be enabled on a per-band basis, if you wanted to get fancy, but it's not necessary.

I fully recognize that this feature would then be available only to those who both (a) owned KPA500 amps and (b) had them connected to the K3 with the interface cable. **

This is a group of Elecraft owners which I plan to re-join as soon as I am able ... and if I knew that this feature was there, I would accelerate that rejoining. Quickly. With the purchase of an entire new K-line. Yes, I feel THAT strongly about the feature.

Steve KZ1X/4
K1 #1181
K2 # 771

** An alternative for those who didn't have a KPA500 is an outboard accessory box including a small microcontroller to create the command sequences the amp would otherwise send, and a set of push buttons with band labels (160-80-40-30 etc.). I would consider making such a 3rd party accessory available.

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Igor Sokolov-2

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

David,
I do not see why K3 should be overloaded with such features. All you have
described below is much easier done with the help of computer logging. What
you describe is basically what is known as BAND MAP. Band map of most of the
loggers is much more informative and easier to use then memories built into
transceiver . Are there many users who do not use computer logging and need
those band stacking and memory buttons? I do not think so.

73, Igor UA9CDC

> So to save a pileup (multiplier) in the number 1 memory, I hit V>M and
> then the 1 key. For the second pileup, I hit the V>M key and the 2 key.
> I can do this for up to 10 memories. To recall a memory, I hit M>V and
> the number key. This is only a rough workaround and definitely not an
> ideal solution. I would still like to see a quicker way to enter and
> recall memories -- as described in my earlier posts. In essence, we
> should only have to hit one button to memorize and one button to go into
> recall mode and then have some way to scroll through the stacked, saved
> memories. I like the suggestion from someone that we use the Mode key to
> do the scrolling. I hope Aptos is following this thread.

> Dave, N4QS

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

In reply to this post by Dave Perry N4QS

Dave,

You do not have to use the 1 thru 0 buttons --- use those buttons for
band changing, it works slick.

The M1-4 buttons can be used in the same way - and they are per band -
so if you change to another band and switch back, those remembered
frequencies are still valid.

You probably do not really need more than 4 remembered frequencies on
any one band - that frees the 1 through 0 buttons to use for Quick
Memories - and they can be assigned in a way that serve in place of a
band switch. I hardly ever touch the K3 band up/down buttons, it is M>V
and then the button for the band I want to go to. I have them set up so
VFO A is in the CW portion of the band and VFO B is in the SSB portion -
if I want to operate SSB, I just do an A/B and I am in that band segment.

After selecting the band, I have 4 memories in the M1-4 buttons that can
also be used - and yes, they can also be used for messages at the same
time they are being used to remember a certain frequency/mode/etc on a band.

I don't understand the reluctance of some to use these buttons - some
have mentioned that they require two button taps - yes, but how many
times do you have to tap the Retrieve button for Bandstacking Registers
when the frequency you want is at the bottom of the stack - you tap it
multiple times!
I like the Elecraft M1-4 function better!

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/30/2011 4:18 PM, Dave Perry wrote:

> Steve,
>
> I do have the KPA500 and your email gave me the idea for another workaround for a lack of a bandstacking feature on the K3. I decided to start using the numeric memories 0 - 9 for storing multipliers in the CQ WW. I normally use these memories to store band memories from 160 through 6 meters. So I guess I will abandon the use of the first 10 numeric memories for band changes and use the band change buttons on the KPA500 for that purpose. I can also use my logging software to change bands.
>
> So to save a pileup (multiplier) in the number 1 memory, I hit V>M and then the 1 key. For the second pileup, I hit the V>M key and the 2 key. I can do this for up to 10 memories. To recall a memory, I hit M>V and the number key. This is only a rough workaround and definitely not an ideal solution. I would still like to see a quicker way to enter and recall memories -- as described in my earlier posts. In essence, we should only have to hit one button to memorize and one button to go into recall mode and then have some way to scroll through the stacked, saved memories. I like the suggestion from someone that we use the Mode key to do the scrolling. I hope Aptos is following this thread.
>
> BTW, I would not hold off on purchasing a K-Line (which I have) just due to the lack of this feature. The radio, panadapter and amplifier are so superior in so many other areas, that I find the lack of a bandstacking feature only a mild inconvenience.
>
> I really do hope that the powers to be in Aptos will come up with a way to add bandstacking -- like they did with the super APF feature.
>
>

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Dave Perry N4QS

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

In reply to this post by Igor Sokolov-2

Igor,

I agree that the band maps built into logging programs like N1MM and DX4WIN
are helpful, and I use them alot during contests and regular logging. But
sometimes band maps get very crowded and they normally only allow you to
view one band at a time. I still think that a band stacking feature can
provide very quick back and forth switching between different pile ups on
different bands and modes -- and can be very useful in certain situations.

Dave, N4QS

----- Original Message -----
From: "Igor Sokolov" <[hidden email]>
To: "Dave Perry" <[hidden email]>; "Steve Jackson" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 band stacking suggestion

> David,
> I do not see why K3 should be overloaded with such features. All you have
> described below is much easier done with the help of computer logging.
> What you describe is basically what is known as BAND MAP. Band map of most
> of the loggers is much more informative and easier to use then memories
> built into transceiver . Are there many users who do not use computer
> logging and need those band stacking and memory buttons? I do not think
> so.
>
> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>
>> So to save a pileup (multiplier) in the number 1 memory, I hit V>M and
>> then the 1 key. For the second pileup, I hit the V>M key and the 2 key.
>> I can do this for up to 10 memories. To recall a memory, I hit M>V and
>> the number key. This is only a rough workaround and definitely not an
>> ideal solution. I would still like to see a quicker way to enter and
>> recall memories -- as described in my earlier posts. In essence, we
>> should only have to hit one button to memorize and one button to go into
>> recall mode and then have some way to scroll through the stacked, saved
>> memories. I like the suggestion from someone that we use the Mode key to
>> do the scrolling. I hope Aptos is following this thread.
>
>> Dave, N4QS
>

Igor Sokolov-2

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

Dave,
I use TR4W (www.tr4w.com). When unassisted, the only spots on the band map
are those that I myself have put in there so band map is not really crowded.
TR4W can show band map for all the bands simultaneously or one band at a
time (you can change it on the fly), one mode or all modes, all spots or
mults only, your CQ frequency/ It also shows you how old the spot is. Spots
can be programmed to fade away at a predetermined time (very useful). All of
the above works with K3 perfectly and it would be impossible to build in all
the above functionality into the radio and use it.
I agree that quick memories can be useful sometimes, but only when one
operates the radio without computer attached.

73, Igor UA9CDC

> Igor,
>
> I agree that the band maps built into logging programs like N1MM and
> DX4WIN are helpful, and I use them alot during contests and regular
> logging. But sometimes band maps get very crowded and they normally only
> allow you to view one band at a time. I still think that a band stacking
> feature can provide very quick back and forth switching between different
> pile ups on different bands and modes -- and can be very useful in certain
> situations.
>
> Dave, N4QS
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Igor Sokolov" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Dave Perry" <[hidden email]>; "Steve Jackson"
> <[hidden email]>
> Cc: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 band stacking suggestion
>
>
>> David,
>> I do not see why K3 should be overloaded with such features. All you
>> have described below is much easier done with the help of computer
>> logging. What you describe is basically what is known as BAND MAP. Band
>> map of most of the loggers is much more informative and easier to use
>> then memories built into transceiver . Are there many users who do not
>> use computer logging and need those band stacking and memory buttons? I
>> do not think so.
>>
>> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>>
>>> So to save a pileup (multiplier) in the number 1 memory, I hit V>M and
>>> then the 1 key. For the second pileup, I hit the V>M key and the 2 key.
>>> I can do this for up to 10 memories. To recall a memory, I hit M>V and
>>> the number key. This is only a rough workaround and definitely not an
>>> ideal solution. I would still like to see a quicker way to enter and
>>> recall memories -- as described in my earlier posts. In essence, we
>>> should only have to hit one button to memorize and one button to go into
>>> recall mode and then have some way to scroll through the stacked, saved
>>> memories. I like the suggestion from someone that we use the Mode key
>>> to do the scrolling. I hope Aptos is following this thread.
>>
>>> Dave, N4QS
>>
>

Barry

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Don Wilhelm-4 wrote

After selecting the band, I have 4 memories in the M1-4 buttons that can
also be used - and yes, they can also be used for messages at the same
time they are being used to remember a certain frequency/mode/etc on a band.

I have stored a freqency and mode (CW, RTTY, and SSB) in M1-M3 on each band. it's very convenient to quickly move around without pressing lots of buttons.

I also have sored each band in the quick memories, 1-9. The only problem I have with those is recalling which one is which. Any tips on that?

Barry W2UP

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

Barry,

I believe you just have to develop some kind of "logical" system so you
remember - it only has to make sense to you.

I have mine set so 80, 40, and 30 m are on the top 3 buttons - 1, 2, and 3.
The next row is for 20, 15, and 10.
Followed by 17, 12, and 6 m on 7, 8, and 9
The "0" button is 160,

I do not have 60 meters assigned to one of the buttons. However, I can
get to 60 meters easily - I have normal memories 61 through 65 set up
for 60 meter channel hopping, and since those are likely the last memory
locations I have used, that is what comes up right after I tap M>V -
tapping M>V again puts me on 60 meters with channel hopping enabled.

That makes "sense" to me - you can use my system or develop what makes
sense to you.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/31/2011 8:23 AM, Barry wrote:
> I also have sored each band in the quick memories, 1-9. The only
> problem I have with those is recalling which one is which. Any tips on
> that? Barry W2UP --
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N7US

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

In reply to this post by Barry

Barry,

Here's how I set up my quick memories:

1 - 160
2 - 80
3 - 40
4 - 20
5 - 15
6 - 10
7 - 30
8 - 17
9 - 12
0 - 6

I couldn't remember which was which before I did that.

Jim N7US

-----Original Message-----

I also have sored each band in the quick memories, 1-9. The only problem I
have with those is recalling which one is which. Any tips on that?

Barry W2UP

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Barry

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Good points, Don. And, Dick, thanks, for the off-list reply.

I just redid them as 160, 80, 40 for 1-3; 20, 15, 10 for 4-6; 30, 17, 12 for 7-9; and 0 for 6m. Even though I no longer operate 80 and 160 due to antenna restrictions, I think this will be much easier to remember, as I still think of the "WARC bands" as non-primary bands.

Barry W2UP

M0XDF

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Hey Don, I didn't release that - must reread the manual - could you point me in the right direction of how?
73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108, KX3 #???
--
Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers; pray for powers equal to your
tasks. -Phillips Brooks, bishop and orator (1835-1893)

On 30 Oct 2011, at 23:21, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> After selecting the band, I have 4 memories in the M1-4 buttons that can
> also be used - and yes, they can also be used for messages at the same
> time they are being used to remember a certain frequency/mode/etc on a band.

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

David,

The first paragraph on page 16 of the manual has the information. The
fact that M>V or V>M has to be tapped first differentiates this VFO
memory use from the other functions (CW memories or DVR messages, or
programmable function buttons).

You cannot assign a label to these 4 memory buttons, so ignore that part
of the "how to set/retrieve the memories" for this use of the M1-4 buttons.

All in all, there are 144 memories available on the K3. The normal 100
memories plus 4 for each of the11 bands. I guess (but don't know) if
the transverter bands are used the total number of memories expand by 4
for each transverter band. So if the K3 is loaded with all 9
transverter bands, the total number of memories comes to 180, each
containing both A and B VFO frequencies, modes, filter settings, etc.
Use of the A/B button in conjunction with these memories adds a lot of
utility for hopping around a band, and the 10 Quick Memories enable band
to band hopping with ease. The Quick Memories will go back to the last
used frequency on a band, but the M1-4 memories will restore to whatever
was last stored in them.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/31/2011 10:09 AM, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:
> Hey Don, I didn't release that - must reread the manual - could you point me in the right direction of how?
> 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108, KX3 #???
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M0XDF

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

Thanks Don - time to play some more :-)
73 de M0XDF (K3 #174, P3 #108, KX3 #???)
--
If you must play, decide on three things at the start: the rules of the
game, the stakes, and the quitting time. -Chinese Proverb

On 31 Oct 2011, at 15:16, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> David,
>
> The first paragraph on page 16 of the manual has the information. The
> fact that M>V or V>M has to be tapped first differentiates this VFO
> memory use from the other functions (CW memories or DVR messages, or
> programmable function buttons).
>
> You cannot assign a label to these 4 memory buttons, so ignore that part
> of the "how to set/retrieve the memories" for this use of the M1-4 buttons.
>
> All in all, there are 144 memories available on the K3. The normal 100
> memories plus 4 for each of the11 bands. I guess (but don't know) if
> the transverter bands are used the total number of memories expand by 4
> for each transverter band. So if the K3 is loaded with all 9
> transverter bands, the total number of memories comes to 180, each
> containing both A and B VFO frequencies, modes, filter settings, etc.
> Use of the A/B button in conjunction with these memories adds a lot of
> utility for hopping around a band, and the 10 Quick Memories enable band
> to band hopping with ease. The Quick Memories will go back to the last
> used frequency on a band, but the M1-4 memories will restore to whatever
> was last stored in them.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 10/31/2011 10:09 AM, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:
>> Hey Don, I didn't release that - must reread the manual - could you point me in the right direction of how?
>> 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108, KX3 #???
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John Oppenheimer

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

and the 10 Quick Memories enable band
> to band hopping with ease. The Quick Memories will go back to the last
> used frequency on a band

Looking at the Config option "MEM 0-9." Adding band stacking requires
having multiple memories for each band. The additions could be:

Add a config option to enable band stacking

in "MEM 0-9" after this:
>From then on, tapping M>V , then #1 , will take you to your last-used
frequency on 160 m, just as if you had used the BAND switch.
Add this:
If "Band Stacking" is enabled, tapping M>V , then #1 again. will take
you to your last-used frequency on 160 m in the next band stack memory.

The next level of utility would be to add a configuration parameter
which remaps a user selectable button to rotate through the
bands stacking registers on the present band. Possible suggestions are:
XIT, REV(hold), MODE. This addition will add an easy single button push
to rotate through the stacking registers.

Having the above config remap button allows one to use band stacking
without enabling "MEM 0-9" The process would be to use BAND to switch to
a band, then use band stack toggle button to rotate through the stacking
memories.

John
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Pete Michaelis - N8TR

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

In reply to this post by Barry

What has worked well for me is a scheme posted here several
years ago by ???:

1 - 10 meters
2 - 20 meters
3 - 30 meters
4 - 40 meters
5 - 15 meters
6 - 160 meters
7 - 17 meters
8 - 80 meters
9 - 12 meters (no relation to 12 meters, just what was left)

73 Pete - N8TR

At 08:23 AM 10/31/2011, Barry wrote:

>I also have sored each band in the quick memories, 1-9. The only problem I
>have with those is recalling which one is which. Any tips on that?
>
>Barry W2UP
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drewko

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

I agree with Don-- use some pattern-based system. To me this seems
much better than a scheme which relates the numerals printed on the
keys to the corresponding bands. A geometric pattern seems better.

I use vertical columns: the left hand column is 40m/80m/160m. The
middle column is 10m/15m/20m. The righthand column holds the WARC
bands. The "0" key holds 6-Meters.

It would be nice if we could also use the remaining two keys on the
keypad (SPOT and AFX) as frequency memories. As it is now they are
wasted. I know there are only 10 "quick" memories; couldn't this be
expanded to twelve and put these wasted keys to use.

73,
Drew
AF2Z

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 09:07:52 -0400, Don W3FPR wrote:

>Barry,
>
>I believe you just have to develop some kind of "logical" system so you
>remember - it only has to make sense to you.
>
>I have mine set so 80, 40, and 30 m are on the top 3 buttons - 1, 2, and 3.
>The next row is for 20, 15, and 10.
>Followed by 17, 12, and 6 m on 7, 8, and 9
>The "0" button is 160,
>
>I do not have 60 meters assigned to one of the buttons. However, I can
>get to 60 meters easily - I have normal memories 61 through 65 set up
>for 60 meter channel hopping, and since those are likely the last memory
>locations I have used, that is what comes up right after I tap M>V -
>tapping M>V again puts me on 60 meters with channel hopping enabled.
>
>That makes "sense" to me - you can use my system or develop what makes
>sense to you.
>
>73,
>Don W3FPR
>

gm3sek

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

drewko wrote:
>I agree with Don-- use some pattern-based system. To me this seems much
>better than a scheme which relates the numerals printed on the keys to
>the corresponding bands. A geometric pattern seems better.
>

If you have another rig close by that has clearly labeled band buttons,
make the K3 the same.

--

73 from Ian GM3SEK
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
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