K3 ergonomics

[RLVZ]

Hi Guys,
 
The wonderful fact is that there are a great deal of people  who love the
K-3's performance... excellent job Elecraft!
 
Another fact is that many people like small radios  and many people prefer
or even need a larger  radio.  My personal preference would be to have  the
option of the incredible small and lightweight K-3  for mobile/portable use
and then a  larger K-4? for base operation... similiar electronics  and
performance of the K-3 but in a larger package with more front  panel controls,
more spacing between controls, large and bright  front panel labeling of
controls, individual band switch  buttons, weighted smooth wheeling main tuning
knob, larger s-meter/power  meter, and built-in power supply.  I like  the
LED s-meter/power meter over analog meters as for the  LED's are easier to
read but larger would be helpful.  
 
Another fact is that some of us are getting older... as I  get older it's
getting harder to operate small radios effectively in the  heat of battle.
Nothing more fun than a good CW  contest!  (sex is great but doesn't last
as long for  me!)
 
Just my 2 cents worth.  I would be a buyer for the  larger K-3.
 
Best 73,
 
Dick- K9OM  
   
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[Val-12]

> Another fact is that many people like small radios  and many people prefer
> or even need a larger  radio.  My personal preference would be to have
> the option of the incredible small and lightweight K-3  for
> mobile/portable
> use and then a  larger K-4? for base operation... similiar electronics
> and
> performance of the K-3 but in a larger package with more front  panel
> controls, more spacing between controls, large and bright  front panel
>labeling of controls, individual band switch  buttons, weighted smooth
>wheeling main  tuning knob, larger s-meter/power  meter, and built-in
>power supply.
> Dick- K9OM
>

We already have heard the same words 6-7 years ago. However the
discussed rig was K2 and the dreamed one - K3. Now we have K3
bigger than K2.  I'm sure that there will be voices for K5 bigger than K4
too.

73, Val LZ1VB

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[boyscout]

Val-12 wrote

We already have heard the same words 6-7 years ago. However the
discussed rig was K2 and the dreamed one - K3. Now we have K3
bigger than K2.  I'm sure that there will be voices for K5 bigger than K4
too.

Yeah maybe, but compromises made to keep the K3 small are still very real to folks who don't have the Royal Jelly from 6-7 years of using Elecrafts.

For the record, I have a 4-year-old K2 as well as a K3, but I also have a Yaesu 1000D and there's a lot to be said for the ergonomics of the larger radio.  I've become accustomed to most of the K3's compromises for a small front panel, but the one that still drives me CRAZY is band-switching by stepping through the bands one at a time.  If the K4 changes nothing else, I hope it changes that by providing a one-touch method for selecting a band.

[Don Wilhelm-4]

Would you settle for a 'two-touch' method for bandchanging?  If so, it
is already there - set CONFIG: MEM 0-9 to BAND SEL   (see the manual
page 56).
After that, assign one band to each of the 10 keypad buttons and the K3
will remember the last used frequency on a band - tap the M>V button and
then the keypad button corresponding to the band you want and you will
be taken to that band.  I hardly ever use the BAND up/down button on my K3.

73,
Don W3FPR

boyscout wrote:
> I've become accustomed to most of the K3's compromises for a small
> front panel, but the one that still drives me CRAZY is band-switching by
> stepping through the bands one at a time.  If the K4 changes nothing else, I
> hope it changes that by providing a one-touch method for selecting a band.
>  
>  
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[Dick Williams-2]

I have to agree that band switching on the K3 is not the most "user
friendly" and having to "step though" all the bands is a pain in the butt.
That said,  you can only do so much within a givin size;  many features that
can be eaisly encorperated into/onto a large front panel have to be
presented in a different way.  I recently switched from a Orion 2 to the K3,
and it has taken some "getting use to" the much smaller panel;  though I
don't really believe that the K3 has a "leg up" on the O2,  it has some
features that were not available on the O2 that I dearly wanted.

As far as band changing;  you can set up the first 10 memories, but you have
to push two buttons (M>V amd then button 1 thur 0) and have to remember what
number is what band is what number.

Another option is to use PowerSDF/IF and not only is band/mode change easy,
but you also have a great panadaptor  (I think Elecrafts upcoming one will
do the same, but it is not available and I bet will cost better than double
what PowerSDF runs (about $375 plus a few bucks for a couple of interconnect
cables).

An unrelated feature of the Panadaptor is you can quickly QSY via point and
click with your mouse.

In any case, there is an option that will work right now and another one
will be available in the near future.

Dick  K8ZTT



----- Original Message -----
From: "boyscout" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 ergonomics

>
>
> Val-12 wrote:
>>
>> We already have heard the same words 6-7 years ago. However the
>> discussed rig was K2 and the dreamed one - K3. Now we have K3
>> bigger than K2.  I'm sure that there will be voices for K5 bigger than K4
>> too.
>>
>
> Yeah maybe, but compromises made to keep the K3 small are still very real
> to
> folks who don't have the Royal Jelly from 6-7 years of using Elecrafts.
>
> For the record, I have a 4-year-old K2 as well as a K3, but I also have a
> Yaesu 1000D and there's a lot to be said for the ergonomics of the larger
> radio.  I've become accustomed to most of the K3's compromises for a small
> front panel, but the one that still drives me CRAZY is band-switching by
> stepping through the bands one at a time.  If the K4 changes nothing else,
> I
> hope it changes that by providing a one-touch method for selecting a band.
> --

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[P.B. Christensen]

> stepping through the bands one at a time.  If the K4 changes nothing else,
> I
> hope it changes that by providing a one-touch method for selecting a band.

With a few changes and additions, the K3 could be turned into a K4 with
reasonable effort.  Here's what I envision:

- Create a new black-face panel for the K3.  Its face is bare but contains
RJ-11 or RJ-45 connectivity for the customers' choice of two panels.  For
routing between panel and the K3 base unit, perhaps RJ-45 for mic, and RJ-11
for headphone audio and DC power.  In the new black face panel mounts the
existing Main DSP Board;

- Panel 1 looks like the current panel -- nothing changes;

- Panel 2 is a larger panel with band buttons and (possibly) and integrated
P3 pan adapter and color LCD display of all operating parameters;

- The K3 is continued just as it is.  Evolution to the K4 is conducted with
a K3.  Those wanting a K4, simply purchase the black front panel and one of
two new front panels;

- The new front panel communicates to the base K3 unit via serial data (like
the Kenwood TS-480).  This has a powerful secondary benefit in that it
allows the user to use a serial/USB adapter for remote Internet operations.
Just load a panel and netbook PC into a small Pelican case and you're off
and running from any Wi-Fi point -- with a real front panel;

- As long as the panel power can be conserved to120 mA or less, a DC-DC
upconverter can be used from the PC's powered USB port.  I am doing this
today with a TS-480 and an upconverter the size of a 7805 regulator.  One
plug adapts RS232 to USB and powers the TS-480 panel.

- Software (like that designed by W4MQ) is loaded on both the client and
host ends -- or a web server is yet another K3 option that plugs into the
new black panel.  Audio is facilitated through any VoIP program (e.g.,
Skype, IP-Sound, etc.).  If a web server is used, it would be possible to
include audio (like the Omni VII) and eliminate the PCs.  However, I have
tried this approach and there's just no substitute for having the
flexibility of PCs at both ends of an Internet link -- as well as a choice
of audio CODECs that can be regulated based on the quality of the Internet
connection.

I know this may sound like something that takes years in the making, but
many of us are doing this now with TS-480s and remote control units made by
N8LP.  There's nothing we cannot do over the Internet that we can do
locally.  Antennas turn, amps switch, AC power is controlled through
Ethernet power controllers, web cams are used for remote site surveillance
with video monitoring up the tower as antennas turn, environmental
temperature and intrusion alarms are all monitored.  Remote-site PC's that
crash are all on auto-ping to re-start automatically.

No doubt there are many details to sort out, but given other complex tasks
accomplished by Elecraft, I am sure they could roll with this one -- if
there's enough demand for it.

Paul, W9AC






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[Ted Roycraft]

I don't know - call me a Ludite but it seems that the design team at
Elecraft is very small and definitely a limited resource. I would rather
they not be spread too thin. My preference would be for them to
concentrate on performance improvements of the K3 (or Kx if you prefer)
rather than bells and whistles that only 0.001% of K3 users want or will
ever use.

Ted, W2ZK

Paul Christensen wrote:

>> stepping through the bands one at a time.  If the K4 changes nothing else,
>> I
>> hope it changes that by providing a one-touch method for selecting a band.
>>    
>
> With a few changes and additions, the K3 could be turned into a K4 with
> reasonable effort.  Here's what I envision:
>
> - Create a new black-face panel for the K3.  Its face is bare but contains
> RJ-11 or RJ-45 connectivity for the customers' choice of two panels.  For
> routing between panel and the K3 base unit, perhaps RJ-45 for mic, and RJ-11
> for headphone audio and DC power.  In the new black face panel mounts the
> existing Main DSP Board;
>
> - Panel 1 looks like the current panel -- nothing changes;
>
> - Panel 2 is a larger panel with band buttons and (possibly) and integrated
> P3 pan adapter and color LCD display of all operating parameters;
>
> - The K3 is continued just as it is.  Evolution to the K4 is conducted with
> a K3.  Those wanting a K4, simply purchase the black front panel and one of
> two new front panels;
>
> - The new front panel communicates to the base K3 unit via serial data (like
> the Kenwood TS-480).  This has a powerful secondary benefit in that it
> allows the user to use a serial/USB adapter for remote Internet operations.
> Just load a panel and netbook PC into a small Pelican case and you're off
> and running from any Wi-Fi point -- with a real front panel;
>
> - As long as the panel power can be conserved to120 mA or less, a DC-DC
> upconverter can be used from the PC's powered USB port.  I am doing this
> today with a TS-480 and an upconverter the size of a 7805 regulator.  One
> plug adapts RS232 to USB and powers the TS-480 panel.
>
> - Software (like that designed by W4MQ) is loaded on both the client and
> host ends -- or a web server is yet another K3 option that plugs into the
> new black panel.  Audio is facilitated through any VoIP program (e.g.,
> Skype, IP-Sound, etc.).  If a web server is used, it would be possible to
> include audio (like the Omni VII) and eliminate the PCs.  However, I have
> tried this approach and there's just no substitute for having the
> flexibility of PCs at both ends of an Internet link -- as well as a choice
> of audio CODECs that can be regulated based on the quality of the Internet
> connection.
>
> I know this may sound like something that takes years in the making, but
> many of us are doing this now with TS-480s and remote control units made by
> N8LP.  There's nothing we cannot do over the Internet that we can do
> locally.  Antennas turn, amps switch, AC power is controlled through
> Ethernet power controllers, web cams are used for remote site surveillance
> with video monitoring up the tower as antennas turn, environmental
> temperature and intrusion alarms are all monitored.  Remote-site PC's that
> crash are all on auto-ping to re-start automatically.
>
> No doubt there are many details to sort out, but given other complex tasks
> accomplished by Elecraft, I am sure they could roll with this one -- if
> there's enough demand for it.
>
> Paul, W9AC
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>  

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[Joe Planisky]

Except maybe get on the air when the phone (or cable) lines are down ;-)

73
--
Joe KB8AP

On Sep 20, 2009, at 4:18 PM, Paul Christensen wrote:

> ... There's nothing we cannot do over the Internet that we can do
> locally.


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[drewko]

I use the BAND button without even thinking about it when I only need
to go up or down one band, which is often. Along with the M>V direct
band selection I would say that on average it takes me about 1.25
button pushes to switch bands, hahah... So, one-push dedicated band
buttons aren't on my wish list.

However, I do think the BAND button could be made to be a lot more
versatile. I'd like to have it jump among a contiguous range of slots
in the  programmable frequency memories (10-99). Then I could program
as few or as many bands as I wanted, in whatever order I wanted,
including non-ham bands. The ham-band-only boundary system is my major
complaint about the BAND button/function on the K3.

73,
Drew
AF2Z




On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 17:42:48 -0400, Don W3FPR wrote:

>Would you settle for a 'two-touch' method for bandchanging?  If so, it
>is already there - set CONFIG: MEM 0-9 to BAND SEL   (see the manual
>page 56).
>After that, assign one band to each of the 10 keypad buttons and the K3
>will remember the last used frequency on a band - tap the M>V button and
>then the keypad button corresponding to the band you want and you will
>be taken to that band.  I hardly ever use the BAND up/down button on my K3.
>
>73,
>Don W3FPR
>

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