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[K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

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RobertG

[K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

If I send my K3 w/ new synthesizer into Elecraft for the full K3(s)
upgrade, what will such an upgrade include and what will be the
approximate cost. Thanks.
...robert
--
Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY
[hidden email]
Syracuse, New York, USA
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David Bunte

Re: [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

Robert -

I had mine done last year. The K3 cannot be fully upgraded to a K3s, and
what all 'can' be done depends on such things as: Do you already have the
new synthesizer board or boards, depending on having the sub receiver or
not. And, are there options that you do not want.

Perusing the Elecraft website will give you a pretty good idea, and if you
have questions just email support and discuss what you have, what they can
do, and what you want... then they can give you a much better idea than I
can.

I already had the new synths in my K3, and the upgrades I opted for came in
at close to, but somewhat under $1000 including shipping.

Best of luck,

Dave - K9FN

On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 10:03 PM, Robert G Strickland <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> If I send my K3 w/ new synthesizer into Elecraft for the full K3(s)
> upgrade, what will such an upgrade include and what will be the approximate
> cost. Thanks.
> ...robert
> --
> Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY
> [hidden email]
> Syracuse, New York, USA
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Nr4c

Re: [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

Back when the K3S was announced, I sold my existing radio for about $1200 less than the K3S price and ordered a new K3S and put up the $1200 it would have cost me to upgrade. I did keep my old K3 for FD and other portable activities.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Jun 26, 2018, at 11:55 PM, David Bunte <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Robert -
>
> I had mine done last year. The K3 cannot be fully upgraded to a K3s, and
> what all 'can' be done depends on such things as: Do you already have the
> new synthesizer board or boards, depending on having the sub receiver or
> not. And, are there options that you do not want.
>
> Perusing the Elecraft website will give you a pretty good idea, and if you
> have questions just email support and discuss what you have, what they can
> do, and what you want... then they can give you a much better idea than I
> can.
>
> I already had the new synths in my K3, and the upgrades I opted for came in
> at close to, but somewhat under $1000 including shipping.
>
> Best of luck,
>
> Dave - K9FN
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 10:03 PM, Robert G Strickland <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> If I send my K3 w/ new synthesizer into Elecraft for the full K3(s)
>> upgrade, what will such an upgrade include and what will be the approximate
>> cost. Thanks.
>> ...robert
>> --
>> Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY
>> [hidden email]
>> Syracuse, New York, USA
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Charlie T, K3ICH

Re: [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

In my opinion, up-grading a K3 accomplishes nothing but generating a few
useless PC boards that had virtually zero value.
Yeah, I know, the boards aren't really worth zero, but what do I do with
them?
Especially since as you know, an "up-graded" K3 still is NOT a K3S.
Gold fingers, built-in pre-amp etc., ae a couple that come to mind.

The only logical step to me, was to pull the accessories that were the same
and sell the radio.
Admittedly, I couldn't get as much for my K3 as I would have been able to if
the K3S hadn't been released.
But to me this is the normal cycle of newer radios. AND, I didn't have junk
parts to deal with.
Yeah, I know, the boards aren't really worth zero, but what do I do with
them?

Anyway, I'm happy now with my "new" K3S and my old K3 is still on the air
(somewhere?).

73, Charlie k3ICH

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
Behalf Of Nr4c
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 6:35 AM
To: David Bunte <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

Back when the K3S was announced, I sold my existing radio for about $1200
less than the K3S price and ordered a new K3S and put up the $1200 it would
have cost me to upgrade. I did keep my old K3 for FD and other portable
activities.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Jun 26, 2018, at 11:55 PM, David Bunte <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Robert -
>
> I had mine done last year. The K3 cannot be fully upgraded to a K3s,
> and what all 'can' be done depends on such things as: Do you already
> have the new synthesizer board or boards, depending on having the sub
> receiver or not. And, are there options that you do not want.
>
> Perusing the Elecraft website will give you a pretty good idea, and if
> you have questions just email support and discuss what you have, what
> they can do, and what you want... then they can give you a much better
> idea than I can.
>
> I already had the new synths in my K3, and the upgrades I opted for
> came in at close to, but somewhat under $1000 including shipping.
>
> Best of luck,
>
> Dave - K9FN
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 10:03 PM, Robert G Strickland
> <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> If I send my K3 w/ new synthesizer into Elecraft for the full K3(s)
>> upgrade, what will such an upgrade include and what will be the
>> approximate cost. Thanks.
>> ...robert
>> --
>> Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY [hidden email] Syracuse,
>> New York, USA
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>> [hidden email]

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Ronnie Hull

Re: [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

Y ah imagine my surprise when I scrimped and saved for TWO YEARS to be able to purchase a K3 and then a month or so later the K3S appears. Of course they wouldn’t exchange.
I havnt felt right about Elecraft since

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 27, 2018, at 6:44 AM, Charlie T <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> In my opinion, up-grading a K3 accomplishes nothing but generating a few
> useless PC boards that had virtually zero value.
> Yeah, I know, the boards aren't really worth zero, but what do I do with
> them?
> Especially since as you know, an "up-graded" K3 still is NOT a K3S.
> Gold fingers, built-in pre-amp etc., ae a couple that come to mind.
>
> The only logical step to me, was to pull the accessories that were the same
> and sell the radio.
> Admittedly, I couldn't get as much for my K3 as I would have been able to if
> the K3S hadn't been released.
> But to me this is the normal cycle of newer radios. AND, I didn't have junk
> parts to deal with.
> Yeah, I know, the boards aren't really worth zero, but what do I do with
> them?
>
> Anyway, I'm happy now with my "new" K3S and my old K3 is still on the air
> (somewhere?).
>
> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
> Behalf Of Nr4c
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 6:35 AM
> To: David Bunte <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)
>
> Back when the K3S was announced, I sold my existing radio for about $1200
> less than the K3S price and ordered a new K3S and put up the $1200 it would
> have cost me to upgrade. I did keep my old K3 for FD and other portable
> activities.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill
>
>
>> On Jun 26, 2018, at 11:55 PM, David Bunte <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Robert -
>>
>> I had mine done last year. The K3 cannot be fully upgraded to a K3s,
>> and what all 'can' be done depends on such things as: Do you already
>> have the new synthesizer board or boards, depending on having the sub
>> receiver or not. And, are there options that you do not want.
>>
>> Perusing the Elecraft website will give you a pretty good idea, and if
>> you have questions just email support and discuss what you have, what
>> they can do, and what you want... then they can give you a much better
>> idea than I can.
>>
>> I already had the new synths in my K3, and the upgrades I opted for
>> came in at close to, but somewhat under $1000 including shipping.
>>
>> Best of luck,
>>
>> Dave - K9FN
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 10:03 PM, Robert G Strickland
>> <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> If I send my K3 w/ new synthesizer into Elecraft for the full K3(s)
>>> upgrade, what will such an upgrade include and what will be the
>>> approximate cost. Thanks.
>>> ...robert
>>> --
>>> Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY [hidden email] Syracuse,
>>> New York, USA
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>>> [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

ke9uw

Re: [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

In reply to this post by Charlie T, K3ICH

I bought a new K3s this year and moved the filters from the K3 to it and the 2.7KHz filters to the K3. Also moved the DVR to the K3s. Then I upgraded, did, all the mods to the K3 that kits were available for including the USB update. However, I did not upgrade the synthesizers. I used the K3 and the K3s the way I used them and feel more than satisfied with the K3 as a spare rig. My K3 is a 4xxx serial number from about 2010 and has the gold plated connectors.
I did not buy the tuner for the K3s because I never used the one in the K3. I didn’t move it over either. The new tuner is improved and would just buy it if I felt I needed one.
There are a few things that cannot be improved on the K3, like the audio amp, but I don’t seem to miss them when using it.
Chuck
KE9UW

Sent from my iPhone, cjack

Chuck, KE9UW

Vic Rosenthal

Re: [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

In reply to this post by Charlie T, K3ICH

On the other hand, just changing the synthesizer(s) in the K3 makes a
huge difference and is worth doing. Yes, there are plenty of other nice
things about the K3S, but I already had a good external preamp and no
need for a USB port.

73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
On 27/06/2018 14:44, Charlie T wrote:

> In my opinion, up-grading a K3 accomplishes nothing but generating a few
> useless PC boards that had virtually zero value.
> Yeah, I know, the boards aren't really worth zero, but what do I do with
> them?
> Especially since as you know, an "up-graded" K3 still is NOT a K3S.
> Gold fingers, built-in pre-amp etc., ae a couple that come to mind.
>
> The only logical step to me, was to pull the accessories that were the same
> and sell the radio.
> Admittedly, I couldn't get as much for my K3 as I would have been able to if
> the K3S hadn't been released.
> But to me this is the normal cycle of newer radios. AND, I didn't have junk
> parts to deal with.
> Yeah, I know, the boards aren't really worth zero, but what do I do with
> them?
>
> Anyway, I'm happy now with my "new" K3S and my old K3 is still on the air
> (somewhere?).
>
> 73, Charlie k3ICH

David F. Reed-2

Re: [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

In reply to this post by Ronnie Hull

I upgraded by K3 to as close to a K3S as I could; I am very happy with
it. Is it a K3S? No, but in the ways that matter to me, it is... I feel
like it cost me less than selling it and buying a K3S would have, and
will be worth a bit more when I finally sell it.

As for not exchanging yours after a month, it is not COSTCO... How far
in advance should they stop selling one product before its replacement
comes out? How far back should they be willing to do an exchange? I fear
there are no good answers for a small company that needs some cash flow
to keep progressing during development; nailing down exact dates for FCC
acceptance and supplier readiness and so on can be difficult, and
besides, I have learned to measure the goodness of my purchase decisions
based on "was it a good decision based on all information available to
me at the time?". If so, relax, be happy.

Anyway Ronnie, you might look into upgrading, I have been happy doing it.

73 de Dave, W5SV

On 6/27/18 7:14 AM, Ronnie Hull wrote:

> Y ah imagine my surprise when I scrimped and saved for TWO YEARS to be able to purchase a K3 and then a month or so later the K3S appears. Of course they wouldn’t exchange.
> I havnt felt right about Elecraft since
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jun 27, 2018, at 6:44 AM, Charlie T <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> In my opinion, up-grading a K3 accomplishes nothing but generating a few
>> useless PC boards that had virtually zero value.
>> Yeah, I know, the boards aren't really worth zero, but what do I do with
>> them?
>> Especially since as you know, an "up-graded" K3 still is NOT a K3S.
>> Gold fingers, built-in pre-amp etc., ae a couple that come to mind.
>>
>> The only logical step to me, was to pull the accessories that were the same
>> and sell the radio.
>> Admittedly, I couldn't get as much for my K3 as I would have been able to if
>> the K3S hadn't been released.
>> But to me this is the normal cycle of newer radios. AND, I didn't have junk
>> parts to deal with.
>> Yeah, I know, the boards aren't really worth zero, but what do I do with
>> them?
>>
>> Anyway, I'm happy now with my "new" K3S and my old K3 is still on the air
>> (somewhere?).
>>
>> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
>> Behalf Of Nr4c
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 6:35 AM
>> To: David Bunte <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)
>>
>> Back when the K3S was announced, I sold my existing radio for about $1200
>> less than the K3S price and ordered a new K3S and put up the $1200 it would
>> have cost me to upgrade. I did keep my old K3 for FD and other portable
>> activities.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> ...nr4c. bill
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 26, 2018, at 11:55 PM, David Bunte <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Robert -
>>>
>>> I had mine done last year. The K3 cannot be fully upgraded to a K3s,
>>> and what all 'can' be done depends on such things as: Do you already
>>> have the new synthesizer board or boards, depending on having the sub
>>> receiver or not. And, are there options that you do not want.
>>>
>>> Perusing the Elecraft website will give you a pretty good idea, and if
>>> you have questions just email support and discuss what you have, what
>>> they can do, and what you want... then they can give you a much better
>>> idea than I can.
>>>
>>> I already had the new synths in my K3, and the upgrades I opted for
>>> came in at close to, but somewhat under $1000 including shipping.
>>>
>>> Best of luck,
>>>
>>> Dave - K9FN
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 10:03 PM, Robert G Strickland
>>> <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If I send my K3 w/ new synthesizer into Elecraft for the full K3(s)
>>>> upgrade, what will such an upgrade include and what will be the
>>>> approximate cost. Thanks.
>>>> ...robert
>>>> --
>>>> Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY [hidden email] Syracuse,
>>>> New York, USA
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>>>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>>>> [hidden email]
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
>> delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

--

שָׁלום עֲלֵיכֶם - עֲלֵיכֶם שָׁלום

______________________________________________________________
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Message delivered to [hidden email]

Charlie T, K3ICH

Re: [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

That's why I prefaced my comments with "In my opinion".
Also, what did you do with the old discarded synthesizer boards?

73, Charlie k3ICH

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
Behalf Of Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 8:21 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

On the other hand, just changing the synthesizer(s) in the K3 makes a huge
difference and is worth doing. Yes, there are plenty of other nice things
about the K3S, but I already had a good external preamp and no need for a
USB port.

73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
On 27/06/2018 14:44, Charlie T wrote:

> In my opinion, up-grading a K3 accomplishes nothing but generating a
> few useless PC boards that had virtually zero value.
> Yeah, I know, the boards aren't really worth zero, but what do I do
> with them?
> Especially since as you know, an "up-graded" K3 still is NOT a K3S.
> Gold fingers, built-in pre-amp etc., ae a couple that come to mind.
>
> The only logical step to me, was to pull the accessories that were the
> same and sell the radio.
> Admittedly, I couldn't get as much for my K3 as I would have been able
> to if the K3S hadn't been released.
> But to me this is the normal cycle of newer radios. AND, I didn't have
> junk parts to deal with.
> Yeah, I know, the boards aren't really worth zero, but what do I do
> with them?
>
> Anyway, I'm happy now with my "new" K3S and my old K3 is still on the
> air (somewhere?).
>
> 73, Charlie k3ICH

ke9uw

Re: [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

I decided to bypass the replacement of the synthesizers. Could you describe the “huge” difference?

Chuck Jack
KE9UW

Sent from my iPhone, cjack

> On Jun 27, 2018, at 7:55 AM, Charlie T <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> That's why I prefaced my comments with "In my opinion".
> Also, what did you do with the old discarded synthesizer boards?
>
> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
> Behalf Of Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 8:21 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)
>
> On the other hand, just changing the synthesizer(s) in the K3 makes a huge
> difference and is worth doing. Yes, there are plenty of other nice things
> about the K3S, but I already had a good external preamp and no need for a
> USB port.
>
> 73,
> Victor, 4X6GP
> Rehovot, Israel
> Formerly K2VCO
> CWops no. 5
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>> On 27/06/2018 14:44, Charlie T wrote:
>> In my opinion, up-grading a K3 accomplishes nothing but generating a
>> few useless PC boards that had virtually zero value.
>> Yeah, I know, the boards aren't really worth zero, but what do I do
>> with them?
>> Especially since as you know, an "up-graded" K3 still is NOT a K3S.
>> Gold fingers, built-in pre-amp etc., ae a couple that come to mind.
>>
>> The only logical step to me, was to pull the accessories that were the
>> same and sell the radio.
>> Admittedly, I couldn't get as much for my K3 as I would have been able
>> to if the K3S hadn't been released.
>> But to me this is the normal cycle of newer radios. AND, I didn't have
>> junk parts to deal with.
>> Yeah, I know, the boards aren't really worth zero, but what do I do
>> with them?
>>
>> Anyway, I'm happy now with my "new" K3S and my old K3 is still on the
>> air (somewhere?).
>>
>> 73, Charlie k3ICH
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Chuck, KE9UW

Don Wilhelm

Re: [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

In reply to this post by Ronnie Hull

Ronnie,

The latest K3 builds included the new synthesizers. Open the top cover
and look - if your synthesizer board(s) have a 3.5mm jack at the top,
they are the new ones.
The new synthesizers make a big improvement - If I recall it is an 8 to
10 dB improvement in the receive noise floor. I am going from my
recollection of Eric's presentation to FDIM just as the K3S was being
announced.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/27/2018 8:14 AM, Ronnie Hull wrote:
> Y ah imagine my surprise when I scrimped and saved for TWO YEARS to be able to purchase a K3 and then a month or so later the K3S appears. Of course they wouldn’t exchange.
> I havnt felt right about Elecraft since
>
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Don Wilhelm

Re: [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

In reply to this post by ke9uw

Chuck,

A big reduction in receiver noise floor and a huge improvement in both
transmit and receive phase noise. It is like getting a new transceiver.

If you are strictly a casual operator, those qualities may not be
important to you, but if you are a DX'er or a contester, or otherwise
operate in crowded band condition, those things should be important to you.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/27/2018 9:03 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
> I decided to bypass the replacement of the synthesizers. Could you describe the “huge” difference?
>
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ke9uw

Re: [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

I think that’s the answer pertaining to my usage. But I may update the synthesizers on the K3 some day even though.

Chuck Jack
KE9UW

Sent from my iPhone, cjack

> On Jun 27, 2018, at 8:22 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Chuck,
>
> A big reduction in receiver noise floor and a huge improvement in both transmit and receive phase noise. It is like getting a new transceiver.
>
> If you are strictly a casual operator, those qualities may not be important to you, but if you are a DX'er or a contester, or otherwise operate in crowded band condition, those things should be important to you.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>> On 6/27/2018 9:03 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
>> I decided to bypass the replacement of the synthesizers. Could you describe the “huge” difference?

Chuck, KE9UW

Wes Stewart-2

Re: [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

In reply to this post by ke9uw

I have an old K3 that came with the pre-stiffener plate synthesizer. I
discovered the microphonic issue ten years ago and my radio was the first to get
the stiffener plate mod. So, it's old.

I also have a K3S so the old radio is a spare. For some silly reason after all
of these years I decided to upgrade the synthesizer and just did it last week.
I haven't evaluated it on the air but listening to a clean signal source I
didn't notice this huge difference everyone else is excited about. But at my
age I'm not easily excited. YMMV.

Wes N7WS

On 6/27/2018 6:03 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
> I decided to bypass the replacement of the synthesizers. Could you describe the “huge” difference?
>
> Chuck Jack
> KE9UW
>

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NK7Z

Re: [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

With all the talk about the old and new synthesizers, I dug out my old
screen captures of some tests I did showing P3 captures as the
synthesizers were changed from old to new, in two radios, one looking at
the P3 for changes. See:

https://www.nk7z.net/k3/

The images are of my P3, showing another radio with both with the old
synthesizer, then with one radio upgraded, then both radios upgraded.
There is a very visible change for the better using the new synthesizers.

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
https://www.nk7z.net

On 06/27/2018 08:41 AM, Wes Stewart wrote:

> I have an old K3 that came with the pre-stiffener plate synthesizer. I
> discovered the microphonic issue ten years ago and my radio was the
> first to get the stiffener plate mod. So, it's old.
>
> I also have a K3S so the old radio is a spare. For some silly reason
> after all of these years I decided to upgrade the synthesizer and just
> did it last week. I haven't evaluated it on the air but listening to a
> clean signal source I didn't notice this huge difference everyone else
> is excited about. But at my age I'm not easily excited. YMMV.
>
> Wes N7WS
>
>
> On 6/27/2018 6:03 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
>> I decided to bypass the replacement of the synthesizers. Could you
>> describe the “huge” difference?
>>
>> Chuck Jack
>> KE9UW
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]

markmusick

Re: [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

Ronnie and Don,
There is no need to pop the cover to check the K3 to see if it has the new synthesizer. It says on the Elecraft website they started installing the new synthesizer in the K3 starting with serial number 8801. If your K3 serial number is 8801 or higher, you have the new synthesizer.

73,
Mark, WB9CIF

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 1:10 PM
To: Ronnie Hull <[hidden email]>; Charlie T <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

Ronnie,

The latest K3 builds included the new synthesizers. Open the top cover and look - if your synthesizer board(s) have a 3.5mm jack at the top, they are the new ones.
The new synthesizers make a big improvement - If I recall it is an 8 to
10 dB improvement in the receive noise floor. I am going from my recollection of Eric's presentation to FDIM just as the K3S was being announced.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/27/2018 8:14 AM, Ronnie Hull wrote:
> Y ah imagine my surprise when I scrimped and saved for TWO YEARS to be able to purchase a K3 and then a month or so later the K3S appears. Of course they wouldn’t exchange.
> I havnt felt right about Elecraft since
>
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Josh Fiden

Re: [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

In reply to this post by Charlie T, K3ICH

I put them with my zip drives & other SCSI peripherals.

73,
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device

> On Jun 27, 2018, at 5:55 AM, Charlie T <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Also, what did you do with the old discarded synthesizer boards?
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Bill Frantz

Re: [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

In reply to this post by markmusick

(Note: K3s refers to multiple K3 radios. K3S refers to a single
K3S radio. K3Ss or K3Ses refers to multiple K3S radios. I'm
sorry if you are reading the note on a monocase system like RTTY.)

Many of us have installed the new synthesizers in our K3s. For
example, #6299 has the new synthesizers, and the rest of the
available K3S goodies. One clear advantage of Elecraft radios is
that they can be upgraded, and they don't even need a trip back
to the factory to do it.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 6/27/18 at 9:50 AM, [hidden email] (Mark E. Musick) wrote:

>There is no need to pop the cover to check the K3 to see if it
>has the new synthesizer. It says on the Elecraft website they
>started installing the new synthesizer in the K3 starting with
>serial number 8801. If your K3 serial number is 8801 or higher,
>you have the new synthesizer.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | Re: Computer reliability, performance, and security:
408-356-8506 | The guy who *is* wearing a parachute is
*not* the
www.pwpconsult.com | first to reach the ground. - Terence Kelly

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gm3sek

Re: [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

>A big reduction in receiver noise floor and a huge improvement in
both
>transmit and receive phase noise.

That is far too simplistic. Anyone's personal definition of "the
better synthesizer" will depend on what range of frequency offsets
is more important for their particular type of operating.

For HF CW in particular, phase noise at small frequency offsets is
of paramount importance and I wouldn't argue with Don's report of "a
huge improvement in both transmit and receive phase noise" - but
*only* in that specific context. There are also several other
advantages that are relevant to high-performance HF CW that could
also justify upgrading to the KSYN3A.

At close frequency offsets from the carrier, the KSYN3A does indeed
offer a large reduction in phase noise compared with the KSYN3
(which itself was already good). But at wider frequency offsets,
that situation reverses. According to the ARRL review [1], at all
offsets beyond about 6kHz, the older KSYN3 continues to have a lower
noise floor than the newer KSYN3A "upgrade".

Performance at wider frequency offsets, 10-100kHz and beyond, is of
much greater importance in VHF-UHF contesting. This due to a
combination of factors. The strongest signals at VHF-UHF are often
much stronger than on HF, due to the use of high-gain beam antennas;
and also the weakest signals are *always* much, much weaker due to
the lower levels of natural background noise. These two features
stretch the requirement for dynamic range on VHF-UHF far beyond
those for which most HF transceivers are designed.

Anyone transmitting wideband phase noise has a much greater risk of
raising the noise floor of many other stations across the whole
contesting segment of the VHF or UHF band. Running the numbers
reveals that anyone aiming to be a Big Gun in VHF contests has a
responsibility to keep their wideband transmitted noise floor below
about -130dBc/Hz at frequency offsets of 50kHz and more [2]. This
can be a major engineering challenge, and the performance of the
transceiver is almost always the most important building block.

The KSYN3A just about meets the -130dBc/Hz noise floor target at
frequency offsets of 10kHz or more... but according to the ARRL
review [1] the older KSYN3 achieves it much more comfortably, with
10-15dB to spare.

I have both a K3S and a very early-model K3. The K3S (with the
KSYN3A, of course) is used for HF contesting where smaller frequency
offsets are important. Meanwhile the old K3 is now used as a
transverter driver for 144MHz and above - and for that particular
purpose there are very good reasons *not* to replace the original
KSYN3.

73 from Ian GM3SEK

[1]
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/ProductReviewsForDeb/2015/pr112015.pd
f

[2]
https://thersgb.org/members/publications/video_archive.php?id=5703
Sorry, this talk is accessible only to RSGB members, but in a few
words...

G8DOH runs the numbers to demonstrate that the -130dBc/Hz target
for transmitted phase noise is necessary to avoid raising the noise
floor of other stations many kilometres away, and also many tens to
hundreds of kHz away across the band, whenever their high-gain beams
happen to be pointed at each other.

That calculation assumes the UK transmitter power limit of 400W PEP
output. For the US power limit of 1500W output, keeping all other
assumptions the same, the target for transmitted noise floor would
need to be better than -135dBc/Hz. The older KSYN3 can still meet
that more stringent target but the KSYN3A probably cannot.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: [hidden email] [mailto:elecraft-
>[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
>Sent: 27 June 2018 14:23
>To: hawley, charles j jr; Charlie T
>Cc: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)
>
>Chuck,
>
>A big reduction in receiver noise floor and a huge improvement in

both
>transmit and receive phase noise. It is like getting a new
transceiver.
>
>If you are strictly a casual operator, those qualities may not be
>important to you, but if you are a DX'er or a contester, or
otherwise
>operate in crowded band condition, those things should be important
>to you.
>
>73,
>Don W3FPR
>
>On 6/27/2018 9:03 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
>> I decided to bypass the replacement of the synthesizers. Could
you
>describe the "huge" difference?
>>

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)

Would not K3S' be the plural of K3S?

Bob, K4TAX

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 27, 2018, at 4:44 PM, Ian White <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> A big reduction in receiver noise floor and a huge improvement in
> both
>> transmit and receive phase noise.
>
> That is far too simplistic. Anyone's personal definition of "the
> better synthesizer" will depend on what range of frequency offsets
> is more important for their particular type of operating.
>
> For HF CW in particular, phase noise at small frequency offsets is
> of paramount importance and I wouldn't argue with Don's report of "a
> huge improvement in both transmit and receive phase noise" - but
> *only* in that specific context. There are also several other
> advantages that are relevant to high-performance HF CW that could
> also justify upgrading to the KSYN3A.
>
> At close frequency offsets from the carrier, the KSYN3A does indeed
> offer a large reduction in phase noise compared with the KSYN3
> (which itself was already good). But at wider frequency offsets,
> that situation reverses. According to the ARRL review [1], at all
> offsets beyond about 6kHz, the older KSYN3 continues to have a lower
> noise floor than the newer KSYN3A "upgrade".
>
> Performance at wider frequency offsets, 10-100kHz and beyond, is of
> much greater importance in VHF-UHF contesting. This due to a
> combination of factors. The strongest signals at VHF-UHF are often
> much stronger than on HF, due to the use of high-gain beam antennas;
> and also the weakest signals are *always* much, much weaker due to
> the lower levels of natural background noise. These two features
> stretch the requirement for dynamic range on VHF-UHF far beyond
> those for which most HF transceivers are designed.
>
> Anyone transmitting wideband phase noise has a much greater risk of
> raising the noise floor of many other stations across the whole
> contesting segment of the VHF or UHF band. Running the numbers
> reveals that anyone aiming to be a Big Gun in VHF contests has a
> responsibility to keep their wideband transmitted noise floor below
> about -130dBc/Hz at frequency offsets of 50kHz and more [2]. This
> can be a major engineering challenge, and the performance of the
> transceiver is almost always the most important building block.
>
> The KSYN3A just about meets the -130dBc/Hz noise floor target at
> frequency offsets of 10kHz or more... but according to the ARRL
> review [1] the older KSYN3 achieves it much more comfortably, with
> 10-15dB to spare.
>
> I have both a K3S and a very early-model K3. The K3S (with the
> KSYN3A, of course) is used for HF contesting where smaller frequency
> offsets are important. Meanwhile the old K3 is now used as a
> transverter driver for 144MHz and above - and for that particular
> purpose there are very good reasons *not* to replace the original
> KSYN3.
>
> 73 from Ian GM3SEK
>
>
> [1]
> http://www.arrl.org/files/file/ProductReviewsForDeb/2015/pr112015.pd
> f
>
> [2]
> https://thersgb.org/members/publications/video_archive.php?id=5703
> Sorry, this talk is accessible only to RSGB members, but in a few
> words...
>
> G8DOH runs the numbers to demonstrate that the -130dBc/Hz target
> for transmitted phase noise is necessary to avoid raising the noise
> floor of other stations many kilometres away, and also many tens to
> hundreds of kHz away across the band, whenever their high-gain beams
> happen to be pointed at each other.
>
> That calculation assumes the UK transmitter power limit of 400W PEP
> output. For the US power limit of 1500W output, keeping all other
> assumptions the same, the target for transmitted noise floor would
> need to be better than -135dBc/Hz. The older KSYN3 can still meet
> that more stringent target but the KSYN3A probably cannot.
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:elecraft-
>> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
>> Sent: 27 June 2018 14:23
>> To: hawley, charles j jr; Charlie T
>> Cc: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)
>>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> A big reduction in receiver noise floor and a huge improvement in
> both
>> transmit and receive phase noise. It is like getting a new
> transceiver.
>>
>> If you are strictly a casual operator, those qualities may not be
>> important to you, but if you are a DX'er or a contester, or
> otherwise
>> operate in crowded band condition, those things should be important
>> to you.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>>> On 6/27/2018 9:03 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
>>> I decided to bypass the replacement of the synthesizers. Could
> you
>> describe the "huge" difference?
>>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>