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K3 in a cw pileup - needs work

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Dave Hachadorian

K3 in a cw pileup - needs work

Tonight I used a pair of K3's in the Sprint practice. Several
times I had a pileup of four or five loud stations calling me.
With AGC turned on, they were all mushed together, and I couldn't
copy any of them.

AGC settings:
dcy soft
hld 0.2
pls nor
slp 000
thr 008
f 200
s 020

I tried both fast and slow agc. No joy.

So I turned the AGC OFF. Now this introduces another problem -
the very low threshold of the AF Limiter. The AF limiter, even at
its highest setting of 030 introduces gross distortion on loud
signals. This is even worse than the mushy AGC.

So I transfer the headphones to the speaker output, so I can
reduce the AF gain setting in an attempt to get away from the
raucous AF limiter. This works for a while, until finally one
loud signal blows out the K3's audio amplifier. This is the
second time that has happened to me. I guess I'm a slow learner
on that issue.

Something really needs to be done here. My suggestions would to
raise the agc threshold further, and increase the slope of the
agc line (that would mean a slp setting of less than zero). The
AF limiter threshold also needs to be raised, and the AF speaker
output needs better protection.

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ

.

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Ken Kopp-3

Re: K3 in a cw pileup - needs work

Dave,

I also lost an audio output chip last year when an
unexpectedly LOUD SSB signal appeared during
a roundtable QSO.appeared. Heard a part of a
syllable, a pop and then silence.

Was sent a replacement chip immediately.

Your phones ... and their plug ... -are- stereo, aren't
they?

73! Ken - K0PP
[hidden email]
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Guy, K2AV

Re: K3 in a cw pileup - needs work

In reply to this post by Dave Hachadorian

Hi Dave,

Using slope 000 is likely most of your problem. With that setting all
signals regardless of strength are set to the same level regardless of
how loud they are coming in. If they are zero beat or close, it will
mush the dickens out of the copy by making them all the same level in
your ear. I set AGC SLP to 15 for contests. I also use slow AGC the
entire time. If there are key clicks, I use NB with IF off and dsp to
t3-7 or t2-7. It rounds off CW bauds some but does not make them
uncopyable.

Make sure your ATT/PRE/RFGAIN use conforms to something like:

160m ATT plus RF gain at 2 oclock
80m ATT plus RF gain at 3 oclock
40m ATT plus RF gain fully clockwise.
20m " "
15m off plus RF gain fully clockwise.
10m PRE plus RF gain fully clockwise.
6m " "

...if you are listening on your transmit antenna. At least to start.
Make sure the ambient noise on the band is moderately low audio
listening on a clear frequency.

Using the NB with those settings, including the ATT/PRE/RFGAIN
settings. Just today I was listening to an S4 Cuban underneath what
were S9/5 key clicks with the NB off. Offending station up 500 Hz at
30 over 9 (really), and was using 250 filter running at WIDTH 350.

Good luck in Sprint this weekend!

73, Guy.

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:45 PM, Dave Hachadorian <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Tonight I used a pair of K3's in the Sprint practice. Several
> times I had a pileup of four or five loud stations calling me.
> With AGC turned on, they were all mushed together, and I couldn't
> copy any of them.
>
> AGC settings:
> dcy soft
> hld 0.2
> pls nor
> slp 000
> thr 008
> f 200
> s 020
>
> I tried both fast and slow agc. No joy.
>
> So I turned the AGC OFF. Now this introduces another problem -
> the very low threshold of the AF Limiter. The AF limiter, even at
> its highest setting of 030 introduces gross distortion on loud
> signals. This is even worse than the mushy AGC.
>
> So I transfer the headphones to the speaker output, so I can
> reduce the AF gain setting in an attempt to get away from the
> raucous AF limiter. This works for a while, until finally one
> loud signal blows out the K3's audio amplifier. This is the
> second time that has happened to me. I guess I'm a slow learner
> on that issue.
>
> Something really needs to be done here. My suggestions would to
> raise the agc threshold further, and increase the slope of the
> agc line (that would mean a slp setting of less than zero). The
> AF limiter threshold also needs to be raised, and the AF speaker
> output needs better protection.
>
> Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
> Yuma, AZ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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David Gilbert

Re: K3 in a cw pileup - needs work

Wrong ... you have that totally backwards. AGC SLP = 000 gives the LEAST amount of AGC action you can get in the K3. AGC SLP = 015 is the setting that makes all signals above the threshold sound the same, and potentially creates mushy distortion for multiple signals depending on what setting you use for AGC THR. Read the manual, or check out http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/elecraft_k3_agc_and_s-meter.htm if you want to see it graphically.

K6LL's AGC settings are exactly the same as those I use for contesting.

73,
Dave AB7E

------Original Mail------
From: "Guy Olinger K2AV" <[hidden email]>
To: "Dave Hachadorian" <[hidden email]>,
"Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 00:17:32 -0500
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 in a cw pileup - needs work

Hi Dave,

Using slope 000 is likely most of your problem. With that setting all
signals regardless of strength are set to the same level regardless of
how loud they are coming in. If they are zero beat or close, it will
mush the dickens out of the copy by making them all the same level in
your ear. I set AGC SLP to 15 for contests. I also use slow AGC the
entire time. If there are key clicks, I use NB with IF off and dsp to
t3-7 or t2-7. It rounds off CW bauds some but does not make them
uncopyable.

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The Smiths

Re: K3 in a cw pileup - needs work

Having the Slope set to 000 is like not having the AGC on at all.

If you're going to have a theshold, then why bother to keep the AGC from actually doing anything? At least put that Slope to 04 or something where it actually makes a difference. If your concern is having loud signals be louder than the low signals underneath it, and you want to compress the lower signals to sound as loud as the loud ones (or Vs Versa, have the loud ones squashed to the same level as the low signals), you have to actually set the slope compression to do something, not turn it off by setting it to 00. I agree with Guy completely.

Also, there's a setting in the menu that will allow you to have a "soft" Agc which was designed JUST for this Contest/Pile up situation your describing. If you don't know what or where it is, please let us know and I will dig it up for you.

As for the AGC off level limiter, and creating distortion... Yea, I've noticed that with the loud ones too. I belive that Wayne did something with that setting in the last 2 beta software releases... I don't know if you have access to it yet.

M

> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 22:48:19 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 in a cw pileup - needs work
>
>
> Wrong ... you have that totally backwards. AGC SLP = 000 gives the LEAST amount of AGC action you can get in the K3. AGC SLP = 015 is the setting that makes all signals above the threshold sound the same, and potentially creates mushy distortion for multiple signals depending on what setting you use for AGC THR. Read the manual, or check out http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/elecraft_k3_agc_and_s-meter.htm if you want to see it graphically.
>
> K6LL's AGC settings are exactly the same as those I use for contesting.
>
> 73,
> Dave AB7E
>
>
> ------Original Mail------
> From: "Guy Olinger K2AV" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Dave Hachadorian" <[hidden email]>,
> "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 00:17:32 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 in a cw pileup - needs work
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> Using slope 000 is likely most of your problem. With that setting all
> signals regardless of strength are set to the same level regardless of
> how loud they are coming in. If they are zero beat or close, it will
> mush the dickens out of the copy by making them all the same level in
> your ear. I set AGC SLP to 15 for contests. I also use slow AGC the
> entire time. If there are key clicks, I use NB with IF off and dsp to
> t3-7 or t2-7. It rounds off CW bauds some but does not make them
> uncopyable.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Dunc Carter - W5DC

Re: K3 in a cw pileup - needs work

Config: AGC DCY: Soft

The Smiths wrote:

> Having the Slope set to 000 is like not having the AGC on at all.
>
> If you're going to have a theshold, then why bother to keep the AGC from actually doing anything? At least put that Slope to 04 or something where it actually makes a difference. If your concern is having loud signals be louder than the low signals underneath it, and you want to compress the lower signals to sound as loud as the loud ones (or Vs Versa, have the loud ones squashed to the same level as the low signals), you have to actually set the slope compression to do something, not turn it off by setting it to 00. I agree with Guy completely.
>
>
>
> Also, there's a setting in the menu that will allow you to have a "soft" Agc which was designed JUST for this Contest/Pile up situation your describing. If you don't know what or where it is, please let us know and I will dig it up for you.
>
>
>
> As for the AGC off level limiter, and creating distortion... Yea, I've noticed that with the loud ones too. I belive that Wayne did something with that setting in the last 2 beta software releases... I don't know if you have access to it yet.
>
>
>
> M
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> From: [hidden email]
>> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
>> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 22:48:19 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 in a cw pileup - needs work
>>
>>
>> Wrong ... you have that totally backwards. AGC SLP = 000 gives the LEAST amount of AGC action you can get in the K3. AGC SLP = 015 is the setting that makes all signals above the threshold sound the same, and potentially creates mushy distortion for multiple signals depending on what setting you use for AGC THR. Read the manual, or check out http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/elecraft_k3_agc_and_s-meter.htm if you want to see it graphically.
>>
>> K6LL's AGC settings are exactly the same as those I use for contesting.
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave AB7E
>>
>>
>> ------Original Mail------
>> From: "Guy Olinger K2AV" <[hidden email]>
>> To: "Dave Hachadorian" <[hidden email]>,
>> "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 00:17:32 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 in a cw pileup - needs work
>>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> Using slope 000 is likely most of your problem. With that setting all
>> signals regardless of strength are set to the same level regardless of
>> how loud they are coming in. If they are zero beat or close, it will
>> mush the dickens out of the copy by making them all the same level in
>> your ear. I set AGC SLP to 15 for contests. I also use slow AGC the
>> entire time. If there are key clicks, I use NB with IF off and dsp to
>> t3-7 or t2-7. It rounds off CW bauds some but does not make them
>> uncopyable.
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
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>

Scott Prather-2

K3 Loses RX Audio at BW of 2.8 kHz

All: This evening when running FW 3.76 I'm seeing a problem with my K3 that
I've never seen before.

When the K3 is in the LSB, USB or AM mode, adjusting the bandwidth down to
2.8 kHz will result in total loss of audio, even though the S-meter
continues to read incoming signal strength. I've tried an EE-Init and
reloaded the configuration, but the problem remains. Thinking this might be
related to 3.76, I went back to 3.30 and I have exactly the same problem. If
I turn on the sub receiver and change its BW using BSET, it loses LSB, USB
and AM audio at 2.8 kHz as well. To get audio to return, all I need to do is
change the BW to 2.9 kHz or greater on either the main or the sub.

Looking through the reflector postings, it looks like someone saw something
similar to this in the DATA mode a few months back, and pressing the A/B key
would clear it. However, in my case the only way I can restore audio is to
change the BW to 2.9 kHz or greater. In the CW and DATA modes, the audio
does not drop out at any bandwidth setting.

Does anyone have a suggestion as to what might be going on?

Tnx.

Scott
N7NB

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David Gilbert

Re: K3 in a cw pileup - needs work

In reply to this post by The Smiths

Not true. Read the Clifton labs link that I posted and you'll see that on the K3 AGC SLP = 000 actually gives a slope around 2 ... i.e., it takes 4 times the signal strength to sound twice as loud.

The concern is not about having loud signals sound louder than weaker ones ... the concern is having the least nonlinearity in the signal chain to minimize in-band intermod products. Loud signals override weak signals so intermod isn't an issue there. The problem occurs when multiple signals are approximately the same strength and they lie at or near a nonlinear portion of the gain curve. Take a look at the severe knee in the Clifton Labs AGC plots and you'll see what I mean. The best way to avoid distortion in the presence of multiple signals for the majority of conditions (especially when receiving multiple weak ones) is to set the AGC threshold to maximum (008) and the slope to minimum (000), but that still leaves the opportunity for multiple STRONG signals to find the knee in the curve and generate distortion. It also, of course, leaves you less protected against really strong signals.

And please don't try to sound so condescending ... I know exactly what the AGC SOFT setting is and I use it exclusively.

Lastly, you should pay attention to whom is posting what. The original poster who complained about the AF LIM situation is Dave, K6LL.

73,
Dave AB7E

------Original Mail------
From: "The Smiths" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 06:04:58 +0000
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 in a cw pileup - needs work

Having the Slope set to 000 is like not having the AGC on at all.

If you're going to have a theshold, then why bother to keep the AGC from actually doing anything? At least put that Slope to 04 or something where it actually makes a difference. If your concern is having loud signals be louder than the low signals underneath it, and you want to compress the lower signals to sound as loud as the loud ones (or Vs Versa, have the loud ones squashed to the same level as the low signals), you have to actually set the slope compression to do something, not turn it off by setting it to 00. I agree with Guy completely.

Also, there's a setting in the menu that will allow you to have a "soft" Agc which was designed JUST for this Contest/Pile up situation your describing. If you don't know what or where it is, please let us know and I will dig it up for you.

As for the AGC off level limiter, and creating distortion... Yea, I've noticed that with the loud ones too. I belive that Wayne did something with that setting in the last 2 beta software releases... I don't know if you have access to it yet.

M

_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/
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Rick Prather

Re: K3 Loses RX Audio at BW of 2.8 kHz

In reply to this post by Scott Prather-2

I have been noticing a similar anomaly since 3.76.

The only difference is it happens when I go to 2.9.

As I increase the width I see the filter switch at 2.8 (I have the 2.7 SSB filter and 6.0 AM filter) and then at 2.9 it goes dead until I advance it to 3.0 and from then on it continues as it should.

Also when it goes from dead to audio at 3.0 I get a nasty click.

Scott, maybe it's a Prather deal.

Rick Prather
K6LE

On 2/5/2010, at 10:45 , Scott Prather wrote:

> All: This evening when running FW 3.76 I'm seeing a problem with my K3 that
> I've never seen before.
>
> When the K3 is in the LSB, USB or AM mode, adjusting the bandwidth down to
> 2.8 kHz will result in total loss of audio, even though the S-meter
> continues to read incoming signal strength. I've tried an EE-Init and
> reloaded the configuration, but the problem remains. Thinking this might be
> related to 3.76, I went back to 3.30 and I have exactly the same problem. If
> I turn on the sub receiver and change its BW using BSET, it loses LSB, USB
> and AM audio at 2.8 kHz as well. To get audio to return, all I need to do is
> change the BW to 2.9 kHz or greater on either the main or the sub.
>
> Looking through the reflector postings, it looks like someone saw something
> similar to this in the DATA mode a few months back, and pressing the A/B key
> would clear it. However, in my case the only way I can restore audio is to
> change the BW to 2.9 kHz or greater. In the CW and DATA modes, the audio
> does not drop out at any bandwidth setting.
>
> Does anyone have a suggestion as to what might be going on?
>
> Tnx.
>
> Scott
> N7NB
>

Ed Muns, W0YK

Re: K3 in a cw pileup - needs work

In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV

K2AV posted:
> Using slope 000 is likely most of your problem. With that
> setting all signals regardless of strength are set to the
> same level regardless of how loud they are coming in.

Actually AGC SLP 015 flattens the audio output. AGC SLP 000 is the minimum
AGC action but it still reduces the audio output compared to AGC OFF.

> If
> they are zero beat or close, it will mush the dickens out of
> the copy by making them all the same level in your ear. I set
> AGC SLP to 15 for contests.

This makes a wide range of RF signal levels produce the same audio output
level, probably not ideal for contesting.

> Make sure your ATT/PRE/RFGAIN use conforms to something like:
>
> 160m ATT plus RF gain at 2 oclock
> 80m ATT plus RF gain at 3 oclock
> 40m ATT plus RF gain fully clockwise.
> 20m " "
> 15m off plus RF gain fully clockwise.
> 10m PRE plus RF gain fully clockwise.
> 6m " "

These ATT and PRE settings are generally OK, but band conditions and
antenna/terrain gain can alter them. The RF Gain is seldom optimum at full
scale.

Ed - W0YK
-----------------------------------------------
Ed Muns
Muns Vineyard - www.munsvineyard.com
FaceBook - www.facebook.com/munsvineyard

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Ed Muns, W0YK

Re: K3 in a cw pileup - needs work

In reply to this post by The Smiths

"The Smiths" asserted:
> Having the Slope set to 000 is like not having the AGC on at all.

Not really. AGC SLP 000 still produces significant AGC action. See K8ZOA's
paper. There is considerable white space between the Slope=0 curve and the
AGC = OFF line. That's why Dave proposed enhancing the AGC SLP parameter
with negative numbers.

Ed - W0YK
-----------------------------------------------
Ed Muns
Muns Vineyard - www.munsvineyard.com
FaceBook - www.facebook.com/munsvineyard

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Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2

Re: K3 in a cw pileup - needs work

In reply to this post by Dave Hachadorian

During the CQ 160 the K3 performed very well. Also in the (small) pile-ups.

Only mushy experience I had the following situation:
- Being on the DX cluster
- Everybody clicks to you through some bandmap
- Therefore everybody calls on exact the same freq

No wonder it sounds mushy.

(exception: K2's that are mostly more than a few Hz off can be heard :-) )

73
Arie PA3A

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Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy

Re: K3 in a cw pileup - needs work

In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV

Hi Guy,

The problem reported has the classic characteristics of in-passband IMD
caused by a small dynamic range (IMDDR3) IF system, rather than being
something caused by the AGC sub-system. Yes changing the AGC's loop
characteristics will alter the effect, but the root cause is still
non-linearity in the signal path. I suspect the second mixer.

Trouble is that large IMDDR3 IF systems can consume a lot of power, and low
power drain by the K3's receiver was a design goal I believe.

73,

Geoff
GM4ESD

On Saturday, February 06, 2010 at 5:17 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

> Hi Dave,
>
> Using slope 000 is likely most of your problem. With that setting all
> signals regardless of strength are set to the same level regardless of
> how loud they are coming in. If they are zero beat or close, it will
> mush the dickens out of the copy by making them all the same level in
> your ear. I set AGC SLP to 15 for contests. I also use slow AGC the
> entire time. If there are key clicks, I use NB with IF off and dsp to
> t3-7 or t2-7. It rounds off CW bauds some but does not make them
> uncopyable.
>
> Make sure your ATT/PRE/RFGAIN use conforms to something like:
>
> 160m ATT plus RF gain at 2 oclock
> 80m ATT plus RF gain at 3 oclock
> 40m ATT plus RF gain fully clockwise.
> 20m " "
> 15m off plus RF gain fully clockwise.
> 10m PRE plus RF gain fully clockwise.
> 6m " "
>
> ...if you are listening on your transmit antenna. At least to start.
> Make sure the ambient noise on the band is moderately low audio
> listening on a clear frequency.
>
> Using the NB with those settings, including the ATT/PRE/RFGAIN
> settings. Just today I was listening to an S4 Cuban underneath what
> were S9/5 key clicks with the NB off. Offending station up 500 Hz at
> 30 over 9 (really), and was using 250 filter running at WIDTH 350.
>
> Good luck in Sprint this weekend!
>
> 73, Guy.

Joe Planisky

Re: K3 Loses RX Audio at BW of 2.8 kHz

In reply to this post by Scott Prather-2

Hi Scott,

Just a shot in the dark: Have you checked your filter configuration?
If you happen to have an empty slot enabled for those modes, you'll
get exactly the behavior you described. Use the K3 Utility to look
for a slot that you know to be empty but with the Bandwidth set to 2.8
and the LSB, USB, and AM boxes checked.

73
--
Joe KB8AP

On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:45 PM, Scott Prather wrote:

> All: This evening when running FW 3.76 I'm seeing a problem with my
> K3 that
> I've never seen before.
>
> When the K3 is in the LSB, USB or AM mode, adjusting the bandwidth
> down to
> 2.8 kHz will result in total loss of audio, even though the S-meter
> continues to read incoming signal strength.

...

> To get audio to return, all I need to do is
> change the BW to 2.9 kHz or greater on either the main or the sub.
>
...

> Does anyone have a suggestion as to what might be going on?
>
> Tnx.
>
> Scott
> N7NB

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W4CCS

Firmware upload problem

Attempted to upload new firmware to the K3 this morning and got the "MCU
LD" error. Now the K3 is basically dumb. In the manual, it says to
unplug the power for 5 seconds, Hold the power button for approximately
10 seconds and then re-load the firmware.

My problem is that I can no longer get the computer to talk to the K3
and therefore cannot attempt a re-load.

I'm using the Microham router software to talk to the K3 and this has
been working great until now.

Question, does the K3 keep the old settings (38400, 8, N, 1) or does it
resort back to the default settings which are ??

I also tried a direct cable (straight and null modem) and cannot get any
communication to occur.

I'm stuck until I get the K3 talking to the computer again..

HELP..!!

de W4CCS
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Dick Dievendorff

Re: Firmware upload problem

Use a USB to Serial adapter or an RS 232 cable, do not attempt to load
firmware through the microHAM router. It works sometimes, but this
mechanism is not reliable for firmware load.

Dick, K6KR

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 6, 2010, at 8:14 AM, W4CCS <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Attempted to upload new firmware to the K3 this morning and got the
> "MCU
> LD" error. Now the K3 is basically dumb. In the manual, it says to
> unplug the power for 5 seconds, Hold the power button for
> approximately
> 10 seconds and then re-load the firmware.
>
> My problem is that I can no longer get the computer to talk to the K3
> and therefore cannot attempt a re-load.
>
> I'm using the Microham router software to talk to the K3 and this has
> been working great until now.
>
> Question, does the K3 keep the old settings (38400, 8, N, 1) or does
> it
> resort back to the default settings which are ??
>
> I also tried a direct cable (straight and null modem) and cannot get
> any
> communication to occur.
>
>
> I'm stuck until I get the K3 talking to the computer again..
>
> HELP..!!
>
> de W4CCS
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Dick Dievendorff

Re: Firmware upload problem

In reply to this post by W4CCS

The K3 bootstrap loader runs at 38400. After firmware loaf, the K3
Utility restores the speed it started with. However if the firmware
load fails, the K3 may stay at 38400.

Dick, K6KR

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 6, 2010, at 8:14 AM, W4CCS <[hidden email]> wrote:

gdaught6

Re: Firmware upload problem

> The K3 bootstrap loader runs at 38400. After firmware loaf

Sliced? Or unsliced? 8-)

Will you be going to Visalia this year?

73,

George T Daughters, K6GT
CU in the California QSO Party (CQP)
October 2-3, 2010

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Scott Prather-2

Re: K3 Loses RX Audio at BW of 2.8 kHz

In reply to this post by Joe Planisky

Jeff: Thanks for the suggestion concerning the K3's filter configuration,
however, I'd already checked this. According to the K3 Configuration
Utility, FL3 is enabled for LSB, USB and AM in both receivers. Another point
to keep in mind is that FL3 is only selected at a BW setting of 2.7 kHz or
below, FL2 is still used at 2.8 kHz.

I just received the DSP board upgrade yesterday and intend to install it
this weekend. However, I thought that before I make any hardware changes
there might be some value in trying to determine what happened in case the
swap-out clears this issue.

Scott
N7NB

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Planisky [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 7:09 AM
To: Scott Prather
Cc: 'Elecraft Reflector'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Loses RX Audio at BW of 2.8 kHz

Hi Scott,

Just a shot in the dark: Have you checked your filter configuration?
If you happen to have an empty slot enabled for those modes, you'll
get exactly the behavior you described. Use the K3 Utility to look
for a slot that you know to be empty but with the Bandwidth set to 2.8
and the LSB, USB, and AM boxes checked.

73
--
Joe KB8AP

On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:45 PM, Scott Prather wrote:

> All: This evening when running FW 3.76 I'm seeing a problem with my
> K3 that
> I've never seen before.
>
> When the K3 is in the LSB, USB or AM mode, adjusting the bandwidth
> down to
> 2.8 kHz will result in total loss of audio, even though the S-meter
> continues to read incoming signal strength.

...

> To get audio to return, all I need to do is
> change the BW to 2.9 kHz or greater on either the main or the sub.
>
...

> Does anyone have a suggestion as to what might be going on?
>
> Tnx.
>
> Scott
> N7NB

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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wc1m

Re: K3 in a cw pileup - needs work

In reply to this post by Dave Hachadorian

Dave indicates that the problem occurred when the pileup consisted of four
or five loud stations. This leads me to wonder if the cause is the K3
hardware AGC threshold being too low, even after the mod introduced two
years ago. That mod was supposed to raise the threshold from S9+5 dB to
S9+25-30 dB.

I got into this issue after repeatedly being botherd by thumping from loud
CW stations above my passband during big contests. When I first noticed it,
I was using the 5-pole 500 Hz filters and the DSP set to about 300 Hz. I'd
hear the thumping from stations more than 150 Hz or even 250 Hz above my
frequency. Testing revealed that I could hear thumping from loud CW signals
as far as 700Hz away. The testing also showed that the filters were
effective against a loud continuous carrier, but CW signals were slipping
under the skirts. This suggested that the problem is caused by the hardware
AGC being tripped by the loud signals. I switched to 8-pole 400 Hz filters,
and that improved the situation considerably.

My testing probably wasn't lab-quality, but it showed that the hardware AGC
really kicks in much lower than S9+25-30dB. I think it's more like S9, or
just above. Perhaps if two or more signals in Dave's pileup were that lour
or louder, the hardware AGC kicked in and mushed them together?

73, Dick WC1M

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Hachadorian [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:45 PM
> To: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 in a cw pileup - needs work
>
> Tonight I used a pair of K3's in the Sprint practice. Several
> times I had a pileup of four or five loud stations calling me.
> With AGC turned on, they were all mushed together, and I couldn't
> copy any of them.
>
> AGC settings:
> dcy soft
> hld 0.2
> pls nor
> slp 000
> thr 008
> f 200
> s 020
>
> I tried both fast and slow agc. No joy.
>
> So I turned the AGC OFF. Now this introduces another problem -
> the very low threshold of the AF Limiter. The AF limiter, even at
> its highest setting of 030 introduces gross distortion on loud
> signals. This is even worse than the mushy AGC.
>
> So I transfer the headphones to the speaker output, so I can
> reduce the AF gain setting in an attempt to get away from the
> raucous AF limiter. This works for a while, until finally one
> loud signal blows out the K3's audio amplifier. This is the
> second time that has happened to me. I guess I'm a slow learner
> on that issue.
>
> Something really needs to be done here. My suggestions would to
> raise the agc threshold further, and increase the slope of the
> agc line (that would mean a slp setting of less than zero). The
> AF limiter threshold also needs to be raised, and the AF speaker
> output needs better protection.
>
> Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
> Yuma, AZ
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