K3 in a cw pileup - workaround solution

[Dave Hachadorian]

A couple days ago I complained about the K3's performance in a CW
pileup, with AGC mushing signals together, and the AF limiter
restricting overall dynamic range with AGC turned off.

Last night in the CW Sprint I took a different approach and it
worked wonderfully:

LINE OUT from two K3's went to LINE IN of the logging computer's
on-board stereo sound "card."

Sound card line and mixer playback levels were set to maximum.

Sensitive headphones were connected to the sound card output
through a left/right/both switch.

On the K3:
config lin out = phones
AGC off
RF gain/attenuator as low as possible
AF gain turned way down (between first two dots).

This setup really worked great! With K3 audio gain turned down so
low, the only signal to hit the AF limiter was K6NA on 80, and a
quick micro-adjustment of the AF gain knob got him under control.
I was surprised at how quiet the el cheapo sound card was with
its gain turned all the way up. With the K3 audio gain turned all
the way down, there was just a trace of occasional digital whine
from the sound card, way in the background. With K3 af gain back
between the first two dots, no sound card noises could be heard.

The pileups were much more manageable this way. I operate so1r in
the Sprint, so when I show up on a new band, I am "fresh meat,"
and the pileups are frequently loud and deep. Stations in the
pileup could be easily separated by both loudness and pitch. I
will be using this setup on CW from now on, and will probably
leave the wires hooked up this way for the other modes as well. I
already had both K3 line outs connected to the sound card anyway
for RTTY, and I use a different soundcard for ssb transmitting.

All of this really shouldn't be necessary, but it works, so I'm
going with it.

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ








































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[Merv Schweigert]

Lets see now,  getting the AGC settings correct I can understand,
except they do not adjust far enough, that I have experienced.

Reducing the RF gain like you are using a HQ-129X yep copy that
one also, and have done that since day one of owning a K3..

Using a set of headphones that act like a vise on your head, roger that
have a pair of David Clarks in the junk box, a pair of Heil prosets,
Heil proset plus, and a Yamaha 500 so should be covered there..

I use external amplification by using powered external speakers and
plugging the headphones into that jack.  And reduce the audio and
RF gains to limit distortion.. gotcha

And my pet peeve,  no APF, so have an external Datong that fills in
to some degree for that.  All is well ..

I think I have it covered except the part of spending 4500 bucks for
this radio that does not quite work without all the exotic applications
of external accessories to function normally,  and has hardware
design problems due to use of low current consumption design for a
radio that sits on my desktop.
If it were not for the superb selectivity under crowded contest conditions
can you actually find much use for a K3.  In the past 20 or more years
there has not been a radio that sensitivity was any problem,  the better
radios had decent internal noise figures,  so unless you need the superb
selectivity in contest conditions one would assume a better sounding
X brand would be better suited at a much lower cost?
One has to take all the comments with two grains of salt no doubt, as some
suggest running the AGC setting just opposite of others,  some run the NB
on to suppress key clicks while my radio generates key clicks with the NB
on,  some say NR works wonders,  I have never found any setting that
improves weak signal reception.  so who is correct?
If you have moved from an ocean hopper to a HQ-129X you were amazed.
If you moved from a FT-1000MP to a K3 I bet you were amazed,  it all
depends on what you came from as to what the K3 delivers in your eyes,
Also what is a weak signal,  below S5??  to me a weak signal is one that
is almost not detectable to the ears,  that takes listening to the noise
for a
slight variation in the noise to detect a signal is even there,  try
something
that weak with your NB or NR on and off or different settings,  its all
from
where we are coming from and our use of the K3.
 From many comments made and settings suggested one can determine that
there are a large number of K3 owners that may not even use the radio.
Other radios have problems also,  and what they are determine if they effect
your operation or not,  your liking or not, the great equalizer in all
of this
besides the superb selectivity is the response to real problems by
Elecraft,
and the hope that it will be someday fixed,  good luck with getting fixes
from brand X.
Would I sell my K3,  not at present,  but I also have kept my much modified
FT-1000D on the desk and it fills in very nicely,  it also has some AGC
problems,  but no distortion, and some mods to make the AGC much better,
key klix mods are effective,  reducing the IF gain and a carefully selected
roofing filter makes it pretty competitive along with Inrad IF filters.  
and
the cost is a little over 1000 bucks.  And no external accessories needed.
Yes it has a real second receiver,  not as good as the primary but very
usable
again with some mods,  it will also do diversity which I have done since
the
90s so you guys raving about divirsity are just a tad late on finding
that one.

But its no K3 in the close in signal handling capability.  Again would
not sell
my K3.   If I were an outsider to the list it would be hard to decipher
what is
real bugs and what is just operator ignorance posted here.
And the way the threads develop to completely out of topic comments,  one
can also tell that many do not even understand or experience the original
question or problem.
I think there is a genuine problem that needs to be addressed in the AGC and
or DSP or probably the hardware, let that issue be addressed.
It comes up again and again so its there,  and it should not require
external
accesories of certain brands or types to operate the K3 properly.
these things are as important to the survival of the K3 in the future as is
some of the bells and whistles that Sunday users ask for.
Merv KH7C

> A couple days ago I complained about the K3's performance in a CW
> pileup, with AGC mushing signals together, and the AF limiter
> restricting overall dynamic range with AGC turned off.
>
> Last night in the CW Sprint I took a different approach and it
> worked wonderfully:
>
> LINE OUT from two K3's went to LINE IN of the logging computer's
> on-board stereo sound "card."
>
> Sound card line and mixer playback levels were set to maximum.
>
> Sensitive headphones were connected to the sound card output
> through a left/right/both switch.
>
> On the K3:
> config lin out = phones
> AGC off
> RF gain/attenuator as low as possible
> AF gain turned way down (between first two dots).
>
> This setup really worked great! With K3 audio gain turned down so
> low, the only signal to hit the AF limiter was K6NA on 80, and a
> quick micro-adjustment of the AF gain knob got him under control.
> I was surprised at how quiet the el cheapo sound card was with
> its gain turned all the way up. With the K3 audio gain turned all
> the way down, there was just a trace of occasional digital whine
> from the sound card, way in the background. With K3 af gain back
> between the first two dots, no sound card noises could be heard.
>
> The pileups were much more manageable this way. I operate so1r in
> the Sprint, so when I show up on a new band, I am "fresh meat,"
> and the pileups are frequently loud and deep. Stations in the
> pileup could be easily separated by both loudness and pitch. I
> will be using this setup on CW from now on, and will probably
> leave the wires hooked up this way for the other modes as well. I
> already had both K3 line outs connected to the sound card anyway
> for RTTY, and I use a different soundcard for ssb transmitting.
>
> All of this really shouldn't be necessary, but it works, so I'm
> going with it.
>
> Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
> Yuma, AZ
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> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>  

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[Bob - W0GI]

That is how I have setup my new K3.  Line out goes to the PC's realtek HD Audio soundcard that feeds a Bose Companion 3 speaker system.  I plugged in a 1/4" to 1/8" stereo adapter into the front phones jack to mute the internal speaker. If I want to use the internal speaker, I can easily turn off the Bose, and pull out the adapter.  The only downside (minor), is you don't have a fixed level into the soundcard for digital, but it is easy to adjust.

With the AGC off, and tweaking the RF gain, the receiver is super quiet, and the CW tone is incredible. The Bose system has plenty of gain, so no clipping of the audio.

I always thought the Omni-V was the best CW radio ever made, but this K3 has taken the throne.  

On the other side, I still prefer the Mark-V for phone, so I will be keeping it. But for CW, the K3 blows it out of the water.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
On the K3:
config lin out = phones
AGC off
RF gain/attenuator as low as possible
AF gain turned way down (between first two dots).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>