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K3 in the CQWW contest

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DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL

K3 in the CQWW contest

from a perennial winner (or 2nd placer)...

http://lists.contesting.com/pipermail/3830/2009-November/186148.html

Says it all (only need to ready first two paragraphs, although he
again lauds the K3 further down).

What a great radio....

Thanks Aptos (or wherever you are now).

de Doug KR2Q
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Jim Brown-10

Re: K3 in the CQWW contest

On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:37:46 -0500, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote:

>What a great radio....

Yes. Several times I got complaints from guys who came on my new run
frequency to complain when I landed too close to theirfrequency on
40M. Thanks to my K3, I didn't even know they were there, and
couldn't hear them with my IF opened up to 400 Hz. Can't blame it on
my TX -- on CW, I can run 500 Hz away from my close-in neighbors who
also use K3s.

73,

Jim K9YC

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n6wg

Re: K3 in the CQWW contest

Even at 5w, I get the same complaints. My K3 will
let me slip in between big sigs and snipe away. They
can't take the heat :-)
KB and 73
Bob N6WG

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 in the CQWW contest

> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:37:46 -0500, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote:
>
>>What a great radio....
>
> Yes. Several times I got complaints from guys who came on my new run
> frequency to complain when I landed too close to theirfrequency on
> 40M. Thanks to my K3, I didn't even know they were there, and
> couldn't hear them with my IF opened up to 400 Hz. Can't blame it on
> my TX -- on CW, I can run 500 Hz away from my close-in neighbors who
> also use K3s.
>
> 73,
>
> Jim K9YC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3 in the CQWW contest

In reply to this post by DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL

Received an e-mail from an EU MM group who tried the K3
for the first time this weekend along side the typical
mix of FT-1000MP, MK V, 2000 radios (many with Inrad
roofing filters and W8JI NB mods). Operators were mixed
when it came to receiving a single signal on a quiet band
- those who preferred other radios felt the K3 was too
"noisy." However, when it came t dealing with QRM and a
busy band, the K3 was the unanimous choice.

I'm sure that once they get used to the K3 and learn to
set-up the AGC characteristics (slope/threshold) for their
own taste and conditions. the former "world class" radios
will be a thing of the past.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 12:38 PM
> To: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 in the CQWW contest
>
>
> from a perennial winner (or 2nd placer)...
>
> http://lists.contesting.com/pipermail/3830/2009-November/186148.html
>
> Says it all (only need to ready first two paragraphs,
> although he again lauds the K3 further down).
>
> What a great radio....
>
> Thanks Aptos (or wherever you are now).
>
> de Doug KR2Q

David Gilbert

Re: K3 in the CQWW contest

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

I had the same thing happen several times. I'd call QRL? on what for me
was a totally open frequency and get a "RR" reply from someone way off
the side that I could only hear by virtue of their bad key clicks. One
guy was a full 500 Hz away and he still thought I'd be bothering him.

The narrow capability has another downside, though. A few times I'd be
calling CQ on a perfectly clear frequency without getting many replies
even though I knew the band was open. So I'd check either side of me
and discover an S9+20 station 200 Hz away that I didn't even know was
there, and potential callers with wider filters were having trouble
separating us.

I was using the 250 Hz 8-pole filter with the DSP set to 200 Hz and it
worked fantastic, but until everyone else buys a K3 (or at least fixes
their damn key clicks) I'll probably not be able to get maximum benefit
of it.

73,
Dave AB7E

Jim Brown wrote:

> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:37:46 -0500, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote:
>
>
>> What a great radio....
>>
>
> Yes. Several times I got complaints from guys who came on my new run
> frequency to complain when I landed too close to theirfrequency on
> 40M. Thanks to my K3, I didn't even know they were there, and
> couldn't hear them with my IF opened up to 400 Hz. Can't blame it on
> my TX -- on CW, I can run 500 Hz away from my close-in neighbors who
> also use K3s.
>
> 73,
>
> Jim K9YC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

Brendan Minish

Re: K3 in the CQWW contest

I ran my K3 in the Contest and managed to achieve a claimed score of
1,917,035 in the single operator High power all bands, assisted
category. I operated for around 32 Hours and foolishly slept though the
Saturday morning greyline after staying up too late at the start of the
contest.
This is by far my best result to date in the CQWW CW contest and I found
the K3's performance outstanding.

antennas here are, Inverted L (160m), 80m Inverted V Dipole, 40M-10M M2
7-10-30 Log Yagi (&. 2x ~150m long reversible beverages for receive. I
use an Acom 1000 Amp

I used the K3 in diversity mode nearly all all the time. It really
helped with picking out calls quickly when running, even on the bands
(20m and up) where the beverages are lacking in receive sensitivity,
diversity mode helped by creating a stereo image for the stronger
stations which in turn helped with picking out the weaker stations
underneath. It sure is good to be able to pull out JA's and VK's when
running on 80m from under a pileup of EU stations.
Once you get used to diversity CW it's hard to go back to non-diversity.

As far as the filtering goes it was fantastic. A Funny thing happened on
80m when I Picked a frequency that was clear and a few hundred Hz away
from an RA station, I did call QRL? a few times before starting my run.
He obviously felt I was a bit close to his run frequency so He spotted
me with a comment to the effect that I should listen more carefully!
Once the spot hit the cluster system I had a big run, perhaps not the
spotter's desired result ;-0

On the first night I had some power line noise on 160m on occasions and
the DSP noise blanker was able to take this out without destroying the
Receiver performance in the process.

There were some stations that had horrible Keyclicks on TX, this is not
always simply down to poor transmitters, Using Amplifier ALC, can if not
carefully set up make even the cleanest transmitter generate Clicks
and crud

73's
Brendan EI6IZ

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Tom McCulloch

Question on K2 audio output

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

I'll be getting back to PSK31 with my K2 and was wondering if there is a
place to pick up fixed audio output for input into my PC's sound card. It's
been a while but I seem to recall that I used to pick it from from the
external speaker jack which, of course, isn't fixed.

Tahnks in advance

Tom, WB2QDG
K2 #1103

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Question on K2 audio output

Tom,

Take a look at my website www.w3fpr.com - K2 Fixed Audio Output article.
I used to have kits available, and then had only boards, and then Tom
Hammond modified the board to fit between the Control Board and Front
Panel, and offered boards to do that - check www.n0ss.net to see the
documentation for that board - unfortunately, Tom has run out of boards
and does not want to continue, but will provide the board images to
anyone who would like them.

You could wire the amplifier on a piece of perfboard and it will work fine.

I guess there are about 200 K2s out there with this addition, but
interest has tapered off - you are welcome to continue the effort should
you want to order several boards - FAR circuits will make up a sheet of
the boards for you (or anyone else) for an affordable price.

73,
Don W3FPR

Tom McCulloch wrote:

> I'll be getting back to PSK31 with my K2 and was wondering if there is a
> place to pick up fixed audio output for input into my PC's sound card. It's
> been a while but I seem to recall that I used to pick it from from the
> external speaker jack which, of course, isn't fixed.
>
> Tahnks in advance
>
> Tom, WB2QDG
> K2 #1103
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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w7aqk

Re: K3 in the CQWW contest

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

That's an excellent point Jim! I don't think most folks realize how close
you can get to another station with a K3 and not even know they are there!
I used to have big problems with a fellow who lives about a quarter of a
mile from me--not his fault, but he was just LOUD! Now, I don't even know
he is on the band unless I stumble right on top of him! Let me just say
that narrow roofing filters in the K3 are for real! It's a whole different
world than with previous transceivers--even the Orion!

Dave W7AQK

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 in the CQWW contest

GW0ETF

Re: K3 in the CQWW contest

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

For a couple of years now, since getting K3 #145, I've had the impression that activity in the big contests like CQWW has been dropping off because now I don't seem to have problems finding a run frequency. Obviously it's all down to the K3........:-)

Ref key clicks.....(bear with me!) I have relations who fish langoustine off north west Scotland in an area used as a 'testing site' for the Royal Navy nuclear submarine fleet. Here they analyse the sound spectrum emitted by new or serviced engines so they can adjust the onboard system which emits anti-phase sound to cancel the engine noise and so make them silent to other vessels nearby.

So I wonder if it might be feasible to develop a system on the K3 to use the 2nd rx to listen to the offending signal and the software produce an anti-phase 'key click' in the main receiving bandwidth to cancel the clicks...?

Just an idle thought while the coffee is brewing.....

73,

Stewart Rolfe, GW0ETF (GW6W in cqww..)

Jim Brown-10 wrote

On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:37:46 -0500, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote:

Several times I got complaints from guys who came on my new run
frequency to complain when I landed too close to theirfrequency on
40M. Thanks to my K3, I didn't even know they were there, and
couldn't hear them with my IF opened up to 400 Hz. Can't blame it on
my TX -- on CW, I can run 500 Hz away from my close-in neighbors who
also use K3s.

73,

Jim K9YC

Bill W4ZV

Re: K3 in the CQWW contest

In reply to this post by DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL

Another K3 user with a Topband score of note:

http://lists.contesting.com/pipermail/topband/2009-November/032025.html

N7UA is using a K3 in diversity with his TX 4SQ in one RX and phased Beverages in the other. For any not familiar with Topband propagation it's unheard of for the West Coast to ever beat the top East Coast scores (including multi-multis). Now Bob has done it two years in a row! Of course exceptionally quiet auroral conditions should get much of the credit but I'm sure the K3 helped.

73, Bill W4ZV

AD4C2009

Re: K3 in the CQWW contest

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Don't know why they say K3 is noisy.I have owned MK5,2000,Orion and lately ProIII and so far the less noisier radio was the K3,sometimes it sounds so quite that I am afraid it might be broken or off.

AD4C

"For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3"

--- On Mon, 11/30/09, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 in the CQWW contest
To: "'DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL'" <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
Date: Monday, November 30, 2009, 11:14 PM

Received an e-mail from an EU MM group who tried the K3
for the first time this weekend along side the typical
mix of FT-1000MP, MK V, 2000 radios (many with Inrad
roofing filters and W8JI NB mods). Operators were mixed
when it came to receiving a single signal on a quiet band
- those who preferred other radios felt the K3 was too
"noisy." However, when it came t dealing with QRM and a
busy band, the K3 was the unanimous choice.

I'm sure that once they get used to the K3 and learn to
set-up the AGC characteristics (slope/threshold) for their
own taste and conditions. the former "world class" radios
will be a thing of the past.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

______________________________________________________________
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AD4C2009

Re: K3 in the CQWW contest

In reply to this post by w7aqk

That is exactly what's happening to me daily but on SSB,guys with poor selectivity radios about 3Khz from me come to my freq to complain I am bothering them and honestly I don't hear a thing even at 3Khz and with 30db over 9 signal,when I go to CW I can be at just 300Hz away from a 599 signal and still be able to pull a 559 signal with the 500Hz roofer and the DSP dialed to 200Hz,this radio has an amazing selectivity no doubt about it.

AD4C

"For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3"

--- On Tue, 12/1/09, Dyarnes <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Dyarnes <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 in the CQWW contest
To: "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]>, "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Date: Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 4:09 AM

That's an excellent point Jim! I don't think most folks realize how close
you can get to another station with a K3 and not even know they are there!
I used to have big problems with a fellow who lives about a quarter of a
mile from me--not his fault, but he was just LOUD! Now, I don't even know
he is on the band unless I stumble right on top of him! Let me just say
that narrow roofing filters in the K3 are for real! It's a whole different
world than with previous transceivers--even the Orion!

Dave W7AQK

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 in the CQWW contest

Matt Zilmer

Re: K3 in the CQWW contest

I see a little odd symmetry here, between a local interference case
(my QTH) and contesting with the K3.

Incidentally, I get same complaints on CW and SSB. Can't hear them,
but their radios have such poor filtering or selectivity that my TX is
wrecking what they receive, when close to their freq. And that's
without the crowded contest environment, a majority of the time.

There's also a local ham with "clockwise syndrome", who runs way too
much power to make sure he amplifies the splatter. He has
off-frequency energy and gets into the K3 from many KHz away. I've
complained to him numerous times about wasting energy by blasting it
all over the spectrum, etc. No argument works with this guy. Showing
him a spectrum plot of his signal from an 8656B didn't help - he said
my spectrum analyzer was defective, despite same-band same strength
signals looking different and narrower than his. Maybe he'd believe a
P3 plot?

So we can have the problem both ways. The K3 can hear gudge thrown
off by improperly set up TX, and it can't hear nearby signals with TX
run correctly, because it's designed for this.

This sort of thing happens when a revolutionary breakthrough happens
in most infrastructure. The yesteryear equipment and today's SOTA
eqmt aren't compatible any more. That's an extreme statement, because
we should consider our neighbors (we K3'ers). Just the same the
neighbors probably won't consider anyone but themselves. This is how
it has always been, imho, for some special privileged class of ham.
SIC. And we don't have to act like that, because most ops want to be
the best - and that isn't just a technical factor.

Now, if everyone just threw in the towel on the old equipment and
bought K3's we would all be compatible again. I neglected to ask
Wayne or Eric when their sales forecasts projected this to happen, but
it might be a few more years.....

This same topic has come up on the list many times, so that means the
problem cited has occurred many times more than that. If we just
think of others using inferior equipment on HF for RX, we might
operate a little differently. Think of someone using a Hammarlund
receiver ca. 1945 with no crystal filtering at all, and just a BFO to
make sideband usable.

Maybe there should be separate band segments for K3-only operation? :)

73,
matt W6NIA
K3 #24
K2 #2810

On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 06:02:43 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>That is exactly what's happening to me daily but on SSB,guys with poor selectivity radios about 3Khz from me come to my freq to complain I am bothering them and honestly I don't hear a thing even at 3Khz and with 30db over 9 signal,when I go to CW I can be at just 300Hz away from a 599 signal and still be able to pull a 559 signal with the 500Hz roofer and the DSP dialed to 200Hz,this radio has an amazing selectivity no doubt about it.
>
>AD4C
>
>
>"For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3"
>
>--- On Tue, 12/1/09, Dyarnes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>From: Dyarnes <[hidden email]>
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 in the CQWW contest
>To: "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]>, "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
>Date: Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 4:09 AM
>
>
>That's an excellent point Jim! I don't think most folks realize how close
>you can get to another station with a K3 and not even know they are there!
>I used to have big problems with a fellow who lives about a quarter of a
>mile from me--not his fault, but he was just LOUD! Now, I don't even know
>he is on the band unless I stumble right on top of him! Let me just say
>that narrow roofing filters in the K3 are for real! It's a whole different
>world than with previous transceivers--even the Orion!
>
>Dave W7AQK
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]>
>To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 2:49 PM
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 in the CQWW contest
>
>
>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:37:46 -0500, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote:
>>
>>>What a great radio....
>>
>> Yes. Several times I got complaints from guys who came on my new run
>> frequency to complain when I landed too close to theirfrequency on
>> 40M. Thanks to my K3, I didn't even know they were there, and
>> couldn't hear them with my IF opened up to 400 Hz. Can't blame it on
>> my TX -- on CW, I can run 500 Hz away from my close-in neighbors who
>> also use K3s.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Jim K9YC
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Guy, K2AV

Re: K3 in the CQWW contest

In reply to this post by AD4C2009

Noisy is what the uninitiated say whenever they don't yet know to back
off the RF gain just enough to take the riding band noise down to a
comfortable level. This was one of the lessons new Orion owners had to
learn as well, which could be set in the menu per band.

73, Guy.

On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Hector Padron <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Don't know why they say K3 is noisy.I have owned MK5,2000,Orion and lately ProIII and so far the less noisier radio was the K3,sometimes it sounds so quite that I am afraid it might be broken or off.
>
> AD4C
>
>
>
>
> "For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3"
>
> --- On Mon, 11/30/09, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> From: Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 in the CQWW contest
> To: "'DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL'" <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
> Date: Monday, November 30, 2009, 11:14 PM
>
>
>
> Received an e-mail from an EU MM group who tried the K3
> for the first time this weekend along side the typical
> mix of FT-1000MP, MK V, 2000 radios (many with Inrad
> roofing filters and W8JI NB mods). Operators were mixed
> when it came to receiving a single signal on a quiet band
> - those who preferred other radios felt the K3 was too
> "noisy." However, when it came t dealing with QRM and a
> busy band, the K3 was the unanimous choice.
>
> I'm sure that once they get used to the K3 and learn to
> set-up the AGC characteristics (slope/threshold) for their
> own taste and conditions. the former "world class" radios
> will be a thing of the past.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL
>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 12:38 PM
>> To: Elecraft Reflector
>> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 in the CQWW contest
>>
>>
>> from a perennial winner (or 2nd placer)...
>>
>> http://lists.contesting.com/pipermail/3830/2009-November/186148.html
>>
>> Says it all (only need to ready first two paragraphs,
>> although he again lauds the K3 further down).
>>
>> What a great radio....
>>
>> Thanks Aptos (or wherever you are now).
>>
>> de Doug KR2Q
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

AC7AC

Re: K3 in the CQWW contest

In reply to this post by AD4C2009

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

juergen piezo

Re: K3 in the CQWW contest

In reply to this post by Matt Zilmer

Hi Matt

Most of us are black box operators. We need regulations for the amateur service that specifies how our transmitters must perform, just like every other HF spectrum user.

Its amazing how the amateur service holds its head up high as some sort of technical demigod society, yet we cant even clean up our own camp.

Arguments that transmitter standards interferes with technical development is a nonsense argument in my view.

Its time that the ARRL lobbied the FCC for standards for amateur transmitters, and these standards should include keyclicks and SSB transmitter and amplifier IMD levels.

We know keyclicks are unacceptable, why would it be so hard to specify by how much keyclicks should be suppressed by and what the maximum bandwidth should be? How does setting such standards interfere with technical development?

We already have standards for harmonic and spurious levels. The FCC said a long time ago that we cant interfere with televisions or other services if our transmitters are crap. They set harmonic levels for transmitters. Its now time for them to say its also unacceptable for hams to interfere with hams using crap equipment.

Its a disgrace that anyone can go buy a cheap 12 volt mobile radio and then go buy a cheap RM Italy amplifier and then get on the ham bands and call CQDX. Its equally sad that such operators think that they are legally entitled to do so without worrying about the consequences to others. Its selfish and not in the ham spirit. How is it fair that this kind of brain dead operation is classed as "technical experimenting" when it causes so much interference to others?

Why the law stinks, is that if I decided to tune up on this individual for 1 hour I would be breaking the law because I am causing deliberate interference. Yet if I use a class C CB amplifier with a substandard transmitter it would be okay to cause interference all day and I am legal.

We need to wake up to ourselves and our regulations.

John

- On Tue, 12/1/09, Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 in the CQWW contest
> To: "Hector Padron" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Date: Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 7:59 AM
> I see a little odd symmetry here,
> between a local interference case
> (my QTH) and contesting with the K3.
>
> Incidentally, I get same complaints on CW and SSB.
> Can't hear them,
> but their radios have such poor filtering or selectivity
> that my TX is
> wrecking what they receive, when close to their freq.
> And that's
> without the crowded contest environment, a majority of the
> time.
>
> There's also a local ham with "clockwise syndrome",
> who runs way too
> much power to make sure he amplifies the splatter. He
> has
> off-frequency energy and gets into the K3 from many KHz
> away. I've
> complained to him numerous times about wasting energy by
> blasting it
> all over the spectrum, etc. No argument works with
> this guy. Showing
> him a spectrum plot of his signal from an 8656B didn't help
> - he said
> my spectrum analyzer was defective, despite same-band same
> strength
> signals looking different and narrower than his.
> Maybe he'd believe a
> P3 plot?
>
> So we can have the problem both ways. The K3 can hear
> gudge thrown
> off by improperly set up TX, and it can't hear nearby
> signals with TX
> run correctly, because it's designed for this.
>
> This sort of thing happens when a revolutionary
> breakthrough happens
> in most infrastructure. The yesteryear equipment and
> today's SOTA
> eqmt aren't compatible any more. That's an extreme
> statement, because
> we should consider our neighbors (we K3'ers). Just
> the same the
> neighbors probably won't consider anyone but
> themselves. This is how
> it has always been, imho, for some special privileged class
> of ham.
> SIC. And we don't have to act like that, because most
> ops want to be
> the best - and that isn't just a technical factor.
>
> Now, if everyone just threw in the towel on the old
> equipment and
> bought K3's we would all be compatible again. I
> neglected to ask
> Wayne or Eric when their sales forecasts projected this to
> happen, but
> it might be a few more years.....
>
> This same topic has come up on the list many times, so that
> means the
> problem cited has occurred many times more than that.
> If we just
> think of others using inferior equipment on HF for RX, we
> might
> operate a little differently. Think of someone using
> a Hammarlund
> receiver ca. 1945 with no crystal filtering at all, and
> just a BFO to
> make sideband usable.
>
> Maybe there should be separate band segments for K3-only
> operation? :)
>
> 73,
> matt W6NIA
> K3 #24
> K2 #2810
>
>
> On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 06:02:43 -0800 (PST), you wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >That is exactly what's happening to me daily but on
> SSB,guys with poor selectivity radios about 3Khz from me
> come to my freq to complain I am bothering them and honestly
> I don't hear a thing even at 3Khz and with 30db over 9
> signal,when I go to CW I can be at just 300Hz away from a
> 599 signal and still be able to pull a 559 signal with the
> 500Hz roofer and the DSP dialed to 200Hz,this radio has an
> amazing selectivity no doubt about it.
> >
> >AD4C
> >
> >
> >"For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3"
> >
> >--- On Tue, 12/1/09, Dyarnes <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >From: Dyarnes <[hidden email]>
> >Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 in the CQWW contest
> >To: "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]>,
> "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
> >Date: Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 4:09 AM
> >
> >
> >That's an excellent point Jim! I don't think most
> folks realize how close
> >you can get to another station with a K3 and not even
> know they are there!
> >I used to have big problems with a fellow who lives
> about a quarter of a
> >mile from me--not his fault, but he was just LOUD!
> Now, I don't even know
> >he is on the band unless I stumble right on top of
> him! Let me just say
> >that narrow roofing filters in the K3 are for real!
> It's a whole different
> >world than with previous transceivers--even the Orion!
> >
> >Dave W7AQK
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]>
> >To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
> >Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 2:49 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 in the CQWW contest
> >
> >
> >> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:37:46 -0500, DOUGLAS
> ZWIEBEL wrote:
> >>
> >>>What a great radio....
> >>
> >> Yes. Several times I got complaints from guys who
> came on my new run
> >> frequency to complain when I landed too close to
> theirfrequency on
> >> 40M. Thanks to my K3, I didn't even know they were
> there, and
> >> couldn't hear them with my IF opened up to 400 Hz.
> Can't blame it on
> >> my TX -- on CW, I can run 500 Hz away from my
> close-in neighbors who
> >> also use K3s.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >>
> >> Jim K9YC
> >>
> >>
> >>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> >>
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> >
> >
> >
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Guy, K2AV

Re: K3 in the CQWW contest

In reply to this post by AC7AC

Are you recommending in a CW contest that one not engage in running if
one cannot find a space with an open kHz above and an open kHz below?
:>)

Common contest practice in recent decades is 500 kHz between signals
regardless of folks without filters. And that seems to be squeezing
down to 400 and narrower, which some folks derisively have called the
K3 effect.

Last weekend I spent nearly 3 hours 350 Hz below HG1-, who had bad
clicks, and managed it with the K3's extraordinary DSP NB. He parked
up 350 after I had been running on the frequency for nearly an hour. I
didn't move and made many Q's on the frequency with him up there. I'm
sure he thought I would go away, and I probably didn't bother him at
all because my K3's transmitted signal is devoid of key clicks.

For casual operation I agree with you, but in the contests, it's just
p**ing in the wind.

73, Guy.

On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Even with a lesser receiver, I allow plenty of frequency spacing between
> myself and another station on CW, recognizing that the other station may not
> have superb selectivity. Around the CW QRP frequencies, I often allow a full
> kHz and several hundred Hz on other frequencies.
>
> When getting ready to transmit on new frequency I always open up the
> selectivity before sending "QRL?" so I can hear if anyone nearby responds
> who I would never hear with less selectivity. Besides, as others observed,
> other stations are often not quite on frequency and the CQing station using
> narrow selectivity may just keep heating the aether while others are trying
> to respond just outside of his bandpass.
>
> Ron AC7AC
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

John-483

Re: K3 in the CQWW contest

At 01:36 PM 01/12/09, you wrote:
>And that seems to be squeezing
>down to 400 and narrower, which some folks derisively have called the
>K3 effect.

The effect started showing up with the K2.......I first noticed it in
2002 SSCW qrp.

John
k7up

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Dunc Carter - W5DC

Re: K3 in the CQWW contest

John wrote:s

> At 01:36 PM 01/12/09, you wrote:
>
>> And that seems to be squeezing
>> down to 400 and narrower, which some folks derisively have called the
>> K3 effect.
>>
>
>
> The effect started showing up with the K2.......I first noticed it in
> 2002 SSCW qrp.
>
> John
> k7up
>

I'm a new K3 owner and not, at this point, a serious contester although
I was back in the dark ages, aka when I had hair on top of my head. I
have a 8 pole 2.8 kHz and a 250 Hz filter. What I'm finding is that my
"normal-broad" cw width is 200 Hz with the narrower dsp settings as
needed. 300 to 400 hz width is only used on cw when I'm scanning a
semi-dead band. If the ability to use less bandwidth routinely is a K3
effect, it seems to be a desirable effect.

For agc and gain control, on most bands and conditions, I use the
attenuator and only occasionally switch it on on 15 meters and above; my
location in a townhouse complex is not quiet enough to allow more
sensitivity. I usually have the AF gain at about 1/3 open and adjust
the RF gain so that the station that I'm listening to is at the
threshold where th "s-meter" increases only on stronger signals which is
about the same technique as I used with my Hallicrafters S-40 50+years ago.

73, Dunc, W5DC
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