K3: is it SDR?
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Currently, on the ARRL home page, they are running a survey:
How familiar are you with Software Defined Radio (SDR)? And the possible radio-button answers are: * Very familiar! I own a software-defined radio * I don't own SDR gear, but I've been studying the technology * I've heard of it, but that's all * I know nothing about it. So if one owns a K3, does that match your concept (or the ARRL's) of an SDR? How would YOU answer? de Doug KR2Q _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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> So if one owns a K3, does that match your concept (or the ARRL's) of
> an SDR? How would YOU answer? It is IMHO. SDR means software defined, and the K3 is defined by software. Whatever gets through the roofing filter is handled by DSP in transmit and receive. This is quite different from PC-based, or open source, which is what some folks seem to mean when by SDR. Frankly, most HF radios introduced in the 21st century are SDR, and many in the 90's. If it is IF (not AF) DSP, it is probably SDR. How does the ARRL define SDR? 73, Lyle KK7P _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Sorry, but I'm not sure I agree. By that definition many radios since
the 80s would be SDRs. My definition of an SDR is a radio that could be radically changed in functionality by a software change. Perhaps the K3 fits that definition with firmware changes. But does the K3 modulate or demodulate a signal using analog or digital techniques. I am ignorant about the K3's architecture. For example, early SSB rigs used a balanced modulator that nulled the carrier. Then a filter selected LSB or USB. I think true SDR would do that entirely in software. How does the K3 generate SSB? OK, I am biased. I am a FLEX-5000A owner. That said, I'd love to have a K3, but it is beyond me financially right now. I love my K2/100 because it is NOT tied to a PC for basic operation. I plan to keep both radios. I'd also accept a K3/100 as charitable contribution, hi hi! 73, Steve N6VL K2/100 #2289 Lyle Johnson wrote: >> So if one owns a K3, does that match your concept (or the ARRL's) of >> an SDR? How would YOU answer? > > It is IMHO. > > SDR means software defined, and the K3 is defined by software. > Whatever gets through the roofing filter is handled by DSP in transmit > and receive. > > This is quite different from PC-based, or open source, which is what > some folks seem to mean when by SDR. > > Frankly, most HF radios introduced in the 21st century are SDR, and > many in the 90's. If it is IF (not AF) DSP, it is probably SDR. > > How does the ARRL define SDR? > > 73, > > Lyle KK7P _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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> Sorry, but I'm not sure I agree. By that definition many radios since
> the 80s would be SDRs. The whole question really is, "What is an SDR?" As long as we all get to choose our own definition, we'll have widely varying opinions :-) > My definition of an SDR is a radio that could be radically changed in > functionality by a software change. K3 has had many, many downloadable updates that added features and modes to the radio, fixed bugs etc. Thus, an SDR :-) 73, Lyle KK7P (who will now bow out of this thread ;-) _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Steve Kallal
Steve Kallal wrote:
> For example, early SSB rigs used a balanced modulator that nulled the > carrier. Then a filter selected LSB or USB. I think true SDR would do > that entirely in software. How does the K3 generate SSB? In software. -- David Woolley Emails are not formal business letters, whatever businesses may want. RFC1855 says there should be an address here, but, in a world of spam, that is no longer good advice, as archive address hiding may not work. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL
Well, there is no "official ARRL position" on what is and isn't an SDR, but
there is an FCC definition. This is part of an article on SDR I wrote for my every-other month beginner column in QST: <<from article text>> The FCC has defined the SDR concept in terms of their commercial certification process as: ".a radio that includes a transmitter in which the operating parameters of the transmitter, including the frequency range, modulation type or conducted output power can be altered by making a change in software without making any hardware changes." The FCC expects this to yield streamlined equipment authorization procedures by allowing "manufacturers to develop reconfigurable transceivers that can be multi-service, multi-standard, multi-mode and multi-band.." In this context, they are envisioning radios that can be modified at the factory by using different software to meet different requirements. While they allow for field changes, their focus is different than ours.... <<end article quote>> In any event, In the article, I include the K3 within my definition of SDR (in contrast to what I call "software controlled radios") since its modulation and signal processing is under the control of user modifiable or upgradable firmware. The article is scheduled for Sept 08, so I'd appreciate any comments, since I'm sure other people might have different ideas. BTW, it has passed (with some minor suggestions) a sanity check from Gerald Youngblood and his team from FlexRadio. Regards, Joel Joel R. Hallas, W1ZR Technical Editor, QST ARRL _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Steve Kallal
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:41 PM, Steve Kallal <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Sorry, but I'm not sure I agree. By that definition many radios since the > 80s would be SDRs. Not many radios from the 1980s are SDR, Affordable DSPs from the 1980s didn't have the bandwidth necessary to sample from the IF, (ideally after the 1st mixer on receive) rather than the AF. It wasn't until the late 1990s that cheap and powerful DSPs suitable were readily available, as far as I know. > My definition of an SDR is a radio that could be radically changed in > functionality by a software change. Perhaps the K3 fits that definition with > firmware changes. But does the K3 modulate or demodulate a signal using > analog or digital techniques. I am ignorant about the K3's architecture. Yes the K3 does modulate and demodulate the IF to produce a human readable audio / digital output. Personally I think a good rule of thumb is whether the radio could theoretically add a new operating mode with only software changes. In the case of the K3 this is true. For example Elecraft could (ignoring patent / technology licensing issues) add broadcast shortwave DRM support through a firmware update that the end-user could perform. > For example, early SSB rigs used a balanced modulator that nulled the > carrier. Then a filter selected LSB or USB. I think true SDR would do that > entirely in software. How does the K3 generate SSB? A "pure" SDR would have a ADC / DAC (optionally with power wideband amp for transmission) connected to antenna. In many cases a compromise with an analog RF front-end, typically consisting of 1 or 2 mixers for frequency translation and filtering. The closest to a pure SDR that I personally know of is the GNU Radio and certain USRP modules. As I understand it, some of the improvements in the Flex-radio 5000 are because of an improved analog RF front-end I believe. -Michael, VE3TIX _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by KK7P
Lyle,
My opinion on the subject. Since you and Wayne hold and write the firmware, in your hands, it is fully an SDR. But I believe in the hands of the user, it could be called an "FDR" - Firmware Defined Radio. The Flex on the other hand uses open source code that *can* be modified by the user, so that is closer to an SDR than the K3. But in reality, most Flex users will not create their own code for it, they will use someone else's like 'firmware', so they too have an 'FDR' I know it is a subtle distinction, and we may never settle on what is and what isn't. 73, Don W3FPR Lyle Johnson wrote: >> Sorry, but I'm not sure I agree. By that definition many radios since >> the 80s would be SDRs. > > The whole question really is, "What is an SDR?" As long as we all get > to choose our own definition, we'll have widely varying opinions :-) > >> My definition of an SDR is a radio that could be radically changed in >> functionality by a software change. > > K3 has had many, many downloadable updates that added features and > modes to the radio, fixed bugs etc. > > Thus, an SDR :-) > > 73, > > Lyle KK7P (who will now bow out of this thread ;-) > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: > 270.4.11/1553 - Release Date: 7/15/2008 5:48 AM > > > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by michael taylor-3
To me the K3 is not an SR (Software Radio) but an SDR. Not all the
functionality is implemented in software, but enough of it is so the software constitutes the lion's share of the rig's functionality. The software isn't the radio but it defines it. SDR. - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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