K3 noise reduction revisited

[K2QI]

Has there been any progress on improving the NR algorithm used in the K3?
As it is, it's only helpful perhaps 2% of the time on SSB with the remaining
98% of it remaining off.  I've tried adjusting AGC settings, plus fiddling
with the DSP settings and can never seem to find a happy medium.  

 

Adjusting the receive EQ also has a major impact on the NR's audio quality.
Sometimes I like to boost the midrange and treble areas on receive EQ as it
helps with speech, but with any of the parameters set to a +1 or higher, the
resulting audio out with NR on is terrible.  It sounds almost as if I'm
listening to the audio through a long drain pipe.  

 

Finally, turning on the NR generally tends to attenuate the signal rather
than filter it; a very annoying behavior if you ask me.  This has become
painfully obvious during this weekend's IARU contest.

 

Truth be told, the best DSP application I've used and heard so far has come
from BHI with their ANEM modules.  There are only a few settings to adjust,
but it's very effective in isolating human speech patterns from background
noise.  It runs rings around the K3 when it comes to SSB noise reduction.
I'm hoping that sooner (rather than later), Elecraft can come up with a
firmware fix for the NR.  

 

73 de James K2QI

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[Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2]

Worked my K3 in the IARU contest this weekend (PA6HQ 20m cw).
Performed flawlessly except for....

Yes the AGC, and in the following manner:

I am one of thse people who always use AGC slow in CW and in SSB.
(Please guys, spare me the comments that I have to ride the AGC, that is
not the issue here.)
When running in the contest, very strong stations are often followed bij
very weak stations. After the K3-transmission the AGC starts at the
point where it was left before the transmission. (Lyle explained that
before).
It would be nice if the Gain was reset in a smart way at the end of a
transmission so I would not miss the first letter of a call when a weak
station follows a strong one.

By the way, this also stands for SSB.

It was mentioned that the way that the agc is implemented now was the
best in normal QSO'ing and I agree. But the K3 was built to be top
performing in heavy contest / pile-up environment. And if the call rate
is high, a recovered agc at the beginning of a reception looks like a
fine feature to me.


Would be nice if this smart reset for the agc could be implemented in
the menu?
Any one say "aye"?


Thanks all,

73
Arie PA3A

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[K2QI]

Nevermind; found the AFX button and was able to turn it off completely.
Unfortunately, still no major improvement in the NR performance.

James K2QI

On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 4:53 PM, K2QI <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Rick,
>
> I'm assuming that the 'BIN' setting is what turns the AFX off?  I've tried
> the AFX settings with delay going from 1-5 plus BIN, and there isn't too
> much of a noticeable difference.  The DSP still works poorly.  It probaly
> wouldn't be so bad if the DSP didn't attenuate the signal as much as it does
> also.
>
> I regret selling my BHI ANEM module now; I could have used it line with my
> headphones.
>
> James K2QI
>
>   On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Rick Braun <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>  I posted this once before, but not a single response, so here goes
>> again.  I found that the F1-1 NR works OK if the AFX is turned off.  My
>> sense is that AFX plus NR is too much processing.  Try the NR without the
>> fake stereo, it seems more effective to me.
>>
>> Rick Braun
>> KE7VXP
>> K3 # 2869
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* James Sarte <[hidden email]>
>> *To:* [hidden email]
>>   *Sent:* Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:06 PM
>> *Subject:* [Elecraft] K3 noise reduction revisited
>>
>> Has there been any progress on improving the NR algorithm used in the K3?
>> As it is, it's only helpful perhaps 2% of the time on SSB with the
>> remaining
>> 98% of it remaining off.  I've tried adjusting AGC settings, plus fiddling
>> with the DSP settings and can never seem to find a happy medium.
>>
>>
>>
>> Adjusting the receive EQ also has a major impact on the NR's audio
>> quality.
>> Sometimes I like to boost the midrange and treble areas on receive EQ as
>> it
>> helps with speech, but with any of the parameters set to a +1 or higher,
>> the
>> resulting audio out with NR on is terrible.  It sounds almost as if I'm
>> listening to the audio through a long drain pipe.
>>
>>
>>
>> Finally, turning on the NR generally tends to attenuate the signal rather
>> than filter it; a very annoying behavior if you ask me.  This has become
>> painfully obvious during this weekend's IARU contest.
>>
>>
>>
>> Truth be told, the best DSP application I've used and heard so far has
>> come
>> from BHI with their ANEM modules.  There are only a few settings to
>> adjust,
>> but it's very effective in isolating human speech patterns from background
>> noise.  It runs rings around the K3 when it comes to SSB noise reduction.
>> I'm hoping that sooner (rather than later), Elecraft can come up with a
>> firmware fix for the NR.
>>
>>
>>
>> 73 de James K2QI
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] <[hidden email]>
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
>

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[Guy, K2AV]

What version of the firmware are you using?

On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Arie Kleingeld PA3A <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Worked my K3 in the IARU contest this weekend (PA6HQ 20m cw).
> Performed flawlessly except for....
>
> Yes the AGC, and in the following manner:
>
> I am one of thse people who always use AGC slow in CW and in SSB.
> (Please guys, spare me the comments that I have to ride the AGC, that is
> not the issue here.)
> When running in the contest, very strong stations are often followed bij
> very weak stations. After the K3-transmission the AGC starts at the
> point where it was left before the transmission. (Lyle explained that
> before).
> It would be nice if the Gain was reset in a smart way at the end of a
> transmission so I would not miss the first letter of a call when a weak
> station follows a strong one.
>
> By the way, this also stands for SSB.
>
> It was mentioned that the way that the agc is implemented now was the
> best in normal QSO'ing and I agree. But the K3 was built to be top
> performing in heavy contest / pile-up environment. And if the call rate
> is high, a recovered agc at the beginning of a reception looks like a
> fine feature to me.
>
>
> Would be nice if this smart reset for the agc could be implemented in
> the menu?
> Any one say "aye"?
>
>
> Thanks all,
>
> 73
> Arie PA3A
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

--
73, Guy  K2AV
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[N5GE]

On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:26:11 +0200, "Arie Kleingeld PA3A"
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>Worked my K3 in the IARU contest this weekend (PA6HQ 20m cw).
>Performed flawlessly except for....
>
>Yes the AGC, and in the following manner:
>
>I am one of thse people who always use AGC slow in CW and in SSB.
>(Please guys, spare me the comments that I have to ride the AGC, that is
>not the issue here.)
>When running in the contest, very strong stations are often followed bij
>very weak stations. After the K3-transmission the AGC starts at the
>point where it was left before the transmission. (Lyle explained that
>before).
>It would be nice if the Gain was reset in a smart way at the end of a
>transmission so I would not miss the first letter of a call when a weak
>station follows a strong one.
>
>By the way, this also stands for SSB.
>
>It was mentioned that the way that the agc is implemented now was the
>best in normal QSO'ing and I agree. But the K3 was built to be top
>performing in heavy contest / pile-up environment. And if the call rate
>is high, a recovered agc at the beginning of a reception looks like a
>fine feature to me.
>
>
>Would be nice if this smart reset for the agc could be implemented in
>the menu?
>Any one say "aye"?
>
>
>Thanks all,
>
>73
>Arie PA3A
>

{snip}

Nay

Tom, N5GE

[hidden email]
K3 #806, K3 #1055
XV144, XV432, KRC2
W1 and other small kits.
http://www.n5ge.com

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[Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2]

Firmware is latest beta.
 
Arie PA3A

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Namens Guy Olinger
K2AV
Verzonden: maandag 13 juli 2009 3:17
Aan: Arie Kleingeld PA3A
CC: [hidden email]
Onderwerp: Re: [Elecraft] AGC fast recover after a K3 transmission


What version of the firmware are you using?



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[KK7P]

> Has there been any progress on improving the NR algorithm used in the K3?

A lot of effort is going into this at the moment and we hope to
something ready soon.

73,

Lyle kK7P

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[K2QI]

Great news Lyle, hope to see some definite improvements in the next few
firmware releases.

73 de James K2QI

On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Lyle Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > Has there been any progress on improving the NR algorithm used in the K3?
>
> A lot of effort is going into this at the moment and we hope to
> something ready soon.
>
> 73,
>
> Lyle kK7P
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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>

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