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K3 original - ALC erratic

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hf4me

K3 original - ALC erratic

K3 original - ALC erratic

Noticeable on digital mode(s?) (FT8). The ALC - set at 4 solid and 5th
flashing - is far more critical than I remember. Seems like I could easily
set it exactly where I wanted it and it would stay there. Now not so.
Just wondering what can affect the adjustment to where it will drop to 2
bars sometimes and the small change of the "mic" gain will make it higher
than wanted. Not sure it is a continuous condition. Just far more critical
than usual.

Thanks, Jim KG0KP

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David Bunte

Re: K3 original - ALC erratic

Jim -

I have no answer, but mine has always been extremely critical. I can set it
for 4 bars... and it won't budge... but I can't set it for the 5th bar
blinking... it goes from 4 solid to 5 solid no matter how much I play with
the various level controls. I don't do a lot of digital work, so I am not
really too concerned. There may be something I am missing, but I just leave
it at 4 bars and hope for the best.

Dave - K9FN

On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 11:25 PM Jim Miller <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> K3 original - ALC erratic
>
> Noticeable on digital mode(s?) (FT8). The ALC - set at 4 solid and 5th
> flashing - is far more critical than I remember. Seems like I could easily
> set it exactly where I wanted it and it would stay there. Now not so.
> Just wondering what can affect the adjustment to where it will drop to 2
> bars sometimes and the small change of the "mic" gain will make it higher
> than wanted. Not sure it is a continuous condition. Just far more
> critical
> than usual.
>
> Thanks, Jim KG0KP
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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Martin Sole-3

Re: K3 original - ALC erratic

In reply to this post by hf4me

Sounds like the audio level into the radio has changed.

Martin, HS0ZED

On 16/09/2019 10:23, Jim Miller wrote:

> K3 original - ALC erratic
>
> Noticeable on digital mode(s?) (FT8). The ALC - set at 4 solid and 5th
> flashing - is far more critical than I remember. Seems like I could easily
> set it exactly where I wanted it and it would stay there. Now not so.
> Just wondering what can affect the adjustment to where it will drop to 2
> bars sometimes and the small change of the "mic" gain will make it higher
> than wanted. Not sure it is a continuous condition. Just far more critical
> than usual.
>
> Thanks, Jim KG0KP
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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Rick WA6NHC-2

Re: K3 original - ALC erratic

In reply to this post by hf4me

Is the tone frequency changing with the ALC changes?

Not all sound cards are ‘flat’ levels across a range.

Verify it’s the ALC by not changing tones.

Rick WA6NHC

Smell Czech correction happens

> On Sep 15, 2019, at 9:23 PM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> K3 original - ALC erratic
>
> Noticeable on digital mode(s?) (FT8). The ALC - set at 4 solid and 5th
> flashing - is far more critical than I remember. Seems like I could easily
> set it exactly where I wanted it and it would stay there. Now not so.
> Just wondering what can affect the adjustment to where it will drop to 2
> bars sometimes and the small change of the "mic" gain will make it higher
> than wanted. Not sure it is a continuous condition. Just far more critical
> than usual.
>
> Thanks, Jim KG0KP
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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David Gilbert

Re: K3 original - ALC erratic

In reply to this post by Martin Sole-3

Agree. I'd bet the K3 ALC level is more stable than the sound card
output of many computers. I would doubt that Windows likes to mess with
that from time to time as well.

73,
Dave AB7E

On 9/15/2019 8:28 PM, Martin Sole wrote:

> Sounds like the audio level into the radio has changed.
>
> Martin, HS0ZED
>
>
>
> On 16/09/2019 10:23, Jim Miller wrote:
>> K3 original - ALC erratic
>>
>> Noticeable on digital mode(s?) (FT8). The ALC - set at 4 solid and 5th
>> flashing - is far more critical than I remember. Seems like I could
>> easily
>> set it exactly where I wanted it and it would stay there. Now not so.
>> Just wondering what can affect the adjustment to where it will drop to 2
>> bars sometimes and the small change of the "mic" gain will make it
>> higher
>> than wanted. Not sure it is a continuous condition. Just far more
>> critical
>> than usual.
>>
>> Thanks, Jim KG0KP
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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Nr4c

Re: K3 original - ALC erratic

Try reducing the output level from the computer to about one third from the bottom of the scale. This will give you finer resolution with the LinIn control on the radio giving you finer control.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Sep 16, 2019, at 1:17 AM, David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Agree. I'd bet the K3 ALC level is more stable than the sound card output of many computers. I would doubt that Windows likes to mess with that from time to time as well.
>
> 73,
> Dave AB7E
>
>
>
>> On 9/15/2019 8:28 PM, Martin Sole wrote:
>> Sounds like the audio level into the radio has changed.
>>
>> Martin, HS0ZED
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 16/09/2019 10:23, Jim Miller wrote:
>>> K3 original - ALC erratic
>>>
>>> Noticeable on digital mode(s?) (FT8). The ALC - set at 4 solid and 5th
>>> flashing - is far more critical than I remember. Seems like I could easily
>>> set it exactly where I wanted it and it would stay there. Now not so.
>>> Just wondering what can affect the adjustment to where it will drop to 2
>>> bars sometimes and the small change of the "mic" gain will make it higher
>>> than wanted. Not sure it is a continuous condition. Just far more critical
>>> than usual.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Jim KG0KP
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: K3 original - ALC erratic

In reply to this post by David Bunte

With my K3S I do find there is a relationship or interaction with the
scan rate of the ALC display and the frequency of the tone supplied by
FT-8.   Specifically 1500 Hz will appear to have fluctuating ALC display
while the actual level is not changing. By setting the tone, TUNE is a
good application to do this, to some value higher or lower than 1500 Hz
will eliminate the display fluctuations.   WSJT defaults to 1500 Hz for
TUNE mode.

Also if the Line Gain set via the MIC level control is less than 25 or
so, the granularity of the adjustment becomes critical.   It is
suggested to lower the PWR slider on the WSJT application and raise the
value for the Line Gain to some value between 30 and 40. This also
applies to the value of SPKR level from the computer. Again typically
30 to 40 are good values giving smooth level resolution and changes.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 9/15/2019 10:28 PM, David Bunte wrote:

> Jim -
>
> I have no answer, but mine has always been extremely critical. I can set it
> for 4 bars... and it won't budge... but I can't set it for the 5th bar
> blinking... it goes from 4 solid to 5 solid no matter how much I play with
> the various level controls. I don't do a lot of digital work, so I am not
> really too concerned. There may be something I am missing, but I just leave
> it at 4 bars and hope for the best.
>
> Dave - K9FN
>
> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 11:25 PM Jim Miller <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> K3 original - ALC erratic
>>
>> Noticeable on digital mode(s?) (FT8). The ALC - set at 4 solid and 5th
>> flashing - is far more critical than I remember. Seems like I could easily
>> set it exactly where I wanted it and it would stay there. Now not so.
>> Just wondering what can affect the adjustment to where it will drop to 2
>> bars sometimes and the small change of the "mic" gain will make it higher
>> than wanted. Not sure it is a continuous condition. Just far more
>> critical
>> than usual.
>>
>> Thanks, Jim KG0KP
>>
>>
>>

Martin Sole-3

Re: K3 original - ALC erratic

I don't propose to know the full details but I would assume that being
an SDR the K3 digitises the audio at some point. If the sampling rate
and the audio frequency have the right relationship then you can expect
to see those fluctuating effects. I have seen this when making
distortion measurements on AM radios since the sampling rate and the mod
are not phase locked these odd aliasing type effects occur. Moving the
modulation frequency even just a few Hz is usually enough to achieve a
rock steady reading.

Martin, HS0ZED

On 16/09/2019 19:09, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> With my K3S I do find there is a relationship or interaction with the
> scan rate of the ALC display and the frequency of the tone supplied by
> FT-8.   Specifically 1500 Hz will appear to have fluctuating ALC
> display while the actual level is not changing. By setting the tone,
> TUNE is a good application to do this, to some value higher or lower
> than 1500 Hz will eliminate the display fluctuations.   WSJT defaults
> to 1500 Hz for TUNE mode.
>
> Also if the Line Gain set via the MIC level control is less than 25 or
> so, the granularity of the adjustment becomes critical.   It is
> suggested to lower the PWR slider on the WSJT application and raise
> the value for the Line Gain to some value between 30 and 40. This
> also applies to the value of SPKR level from the computer. Again
> typically 30 to 40 are good values giving smooth level resolution and
> changes.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> On 9/15/2019 10:28 PM, David Bunte wrote:
>> Jim -
>>
>> I have no answer, but mine has always been extremely critical. I can
>> set it
>> for 4 bars... and it won't budge... but I can't set it for the 5th bar
>> blinking... it goes from 4 solid to 5 solid no matter how much I play
>> with
>> the various level controls. I don't do a lot of digital work, so I am
>> not
>> really too concerned. There may be something I am missing, but I just
>> leave
>> it at 4 bars and hope for the best.
>>
>> Dave - K9FN
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 11:25 PM Jim Miller <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> K3 original - ALC erratic
>>>
>>> Noticeable on digital mode(s?) (FT8). The ALC - set at 4 solid and
>>> 5th
>>> flashing - is far more critical than I remember. Seems like I could
>>> easily
>>> set it exactly where I wanted it and it would stay there. Now not so.
>>> Just wondering what can affect the adjustment to where it will drop
>>> to 2
>>> bars sometimes and the small change of the "mic" gain will make it
>>> higher
>>> than wanted. Not sure it is a continuous condition. Just far more
>>> critical
>>> than usual.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Jim KG0KP
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: K3 original - ALC erratic

I find that with my K3S, a tone applied that is divisible by 500 {500
Hz, 1000 Hz, 1500 Hz, 2000 Hz, 2500 Hz} or any tone likewise divisible
by 600 or multiples there of will cause the ALC indication to fluctuate
in a rhythmic pattern. Changing the tone frequency as little as +/-3
Hz resolved the fluctuation appearance of the ALC and thus presents a
steady indication of ALC level.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 9/16/2019 7:34 AM, Martin Sole wrote:

> I don't propose to know the full details but I would assume that being
> an SDR the K3 digitises the audio at some point. If the sampling rate
> and the audio frequency have the right relationship then you can
> expect to see those fluctuating effects. I have seen this when making
> distortion measurements on AM radios since the sampling rate and the
> mod are not phase locked these odd aliasing type effects occur. Moving
> the modulation frequency even just a few Hz is usually enough to
> achieve a rock steady reading.
>
> Martin, HS0ZED
>
>

Don Wilhelm

Re: K3 original - ALC erratic

In reply to this post by hf4me

Jim,

The audio level settings have finer resolution when set to a mid-range
value. Make sure none of the audio controls (including the mislabeled
"POWER" slider in the application software) are not set near the upper
or lower extremes.
You have at least 3 level controls to consider - the POWER control in
the software, the soundcard SPKR or LINE OUT, and the LINE IN level on
the K3.

As others have mentioned, some soundcards have humps and valleys in
their output response, so the output may vary with the audio frequency.
You can decide whether to live with that or get a soundcard with a
flatter response curve.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/15/2019 11:23 PM, Jim Miller wrote:
> K3 original - ALC erratic
>
> Noticeable on digital mode(s?) (FT8). The ALC - set at 4 solid and 5th
> flashing - is far more critical than I remember. Seems like I could easily
> set it exactly where I wanted it and it would stay there.
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: K3 original - ALC erratic

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Set the TX value in the application to something other than 1500 Hz.
Just change it in the TX window located to the left of the "Hold TX
Freq" box.   I use 1550 Hz to start.

In working stations, that number will change depending on where in the
audio spectrum the station is transmitting.   Once I set the levels from
the computer, the WSJT PWR value and the radio Line Gain value, I'm good
to go for all contacts on any part of the audio spectrum.   Even if the
station comes up on 1500 Hz, the ALC is correct while the display may be
pulsing, indicating otherwise.   Just ignore it.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 9/16/2019 10:04 AM, Kenneth Moorman wrote:

> Bob,
>
> How do you change the TUNE frequency in WSTJ? I am seeing what you mention below with my K3 and would like to use a different frequency other than the default of 1500 Hz. Thanks.
>
> Ken, NU4I
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob McGraw K4TAX
> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2019 8:09 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 original - ALC erratic
>
> With my K3S I do find there is a relationship or interaction with the scan rate of the ALC display and the frequency of the tone supplied by FT-8. Specifically 1500 Hz will appear to have fluctuating ALC display while the actual level is not changing. By setting the tone, TUNE is a good application to do this, to some value higher or lower than 1500 Hz will eliminate the display fluctuations. WSJT defaults to 1500 Hz for TUNE mode.
>
> Also if the Line Gain set via the MIC level control is less than 25 or so, the granularity of the adjustment becomes critical. It is suggested to lower the PWR slider on the WSJT application and raise the value for the Line Gain to some value between 30 and 40. This also applies to the value of SPKR level from the computer. Again typically
> 30 to 40 are good values giving smooth level resolution and changes.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> On 9/15/2019 10:28 PM, David Bunte wrote:
>> Jim -
>>
>> I have no answer, but mine has always been extremely critical. I can
>> set it for 4 bars... and it won't budge... but I can't set it for the
>> 5th bar blinking... it goes from 4 solid to 5 solid no matter how much
>> I play with the various level controls. I don't do a lot of digital
>> work, so I am not really too concerned. There may be something I am
>> missing, but I just leave it at 4 bars and hope for the best.
>>
>> Dave - K9FN
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 11:25 PM Jim Miller <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> K3 original - ALC erratic
>>>
>>> Noticeable on digital mode(s?) (FT8). The ALC - set at 4 solid and
>>> 5th flashing - is far more critical than I remember. Seems like I
>>> could easily set it exactly where I wanted it and it would stay there. Now not so.
>>> Just wondering what can affect the adjustment to where it will drop
>>> to 2 bars sometimes and the small change of the "mic" gain will make
>>> it higher than wanted. Not sure it is a continuous condition. Just
>>> far more critical than usual.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Jim KG0KP
>>>
>>>
>>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>

Terry Schieler-2

Re: K3 original - ALC erratic

In reply to this post by hf4me

My K3S does exactly that same thing when I try to set the ALC on FT8. Four
solid and the 5th flickering takes a very fine touch. Spot on for a while.
Then three solid bars, then 6 or 7 bars. Way too sensitive for the sweet
spot.

Terry WØFM

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Miller [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2019 10:24 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 original - ALC erratic

K3 original - ALC erratic

Noticeable on digital mode(s?) (FT8). The ALC - set at 4 solid and 5th
flashing - is far more critical than I remember. Seems like I could easily
set it exactly where I wanted it and it would stay there. Now not so.
Just wondering what can affect the adjustment to where it will drop to 2
bars sometimes and the small change of the "mic" gain will make it higher
than wanted. Not sure it is a continuous condition. Just far more critical
than usual.

Thanks, Jim KG0KP

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]