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K3 post SS observations

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Nate Bargmann

K3 post SS observations

Before I start I should note that I'm not a top tier contester. For
that matter I probably don't even rank very high in the bottom tier, but
I enjoy the operating so I keep at it. Some may even argue that the K3
is too advanced of a tool for a back bencher like myself, but I think it
is a good tool regardless as I will turn in my best personal score of
SSB SS ever even though I missed the sweep by PR and VI.

I'll add my voice to the chorus praising Elecraft for doing an
outstanding job with the K3. The receiver meets the hype, IMO, allowing
me to copy stations that would have been unworkable with my previous
equipment or at least much more difficult. My previous FT-920 had a DSP
with Lo and Hi cut so its use on the K3 is natural to me. The
difference is that nothing gets around the K3's filters to bother the
DSP (to be fair, the '920s DSP was audio based and out of the AGC loop
but it could be turned off and one could find many deficiences in the
IF). I was quite pleased to engage the cut in whatever direction needed
and often I had clear copy on an otherwise covered signal.

An improved 80/160m doublet allowed me to actually run on 80m Sunday
morning and evening. Reports indicated good audio and strong signals.
I was driving the K3 with a Heil Proset Micro with an HC5-5 element.
Watching the PA temp I never saw it rise above 37C and never heard the
fans kick up during my runs.

For the first time in many years I gave VOX a try and it was equally as
useful as the other aspects of the K3. Once set with the microphone
boom set correctly I was able to operate as smoothly as using the foot
switch. I even ate a pickle during Sunday evening's run and the VOX
did not pick that up! I did not engage the anti-VOX as I had already
set the noise gate.

I am pleased with my purchase of the K3. It is a powerful and useful
tool no matter one's operating interests, in my opinion. Perhaps I'm
not the ultimate judge as I don't have any large stations locally to
contend with but I found the receiver to be crunch proof this weekend.
The transmitter ran cool and without complaint even when I forgot to
reset the tuner on excursions up the band on 80m. As I've had six weeks
to get familiar to the layout, reaching for a needed function did not
require consulting the manual or delving into the menus (only needed to
get into the menu when setting the VOX).

I recommend the K3 to anyone looking to improve their station. I expect
mine to be on my desk for a long time to come.

73, de Nate, N0NB >>

K3 S/N 4762 with 4.22 beta

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html
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Nr4c

Re: K3 post SS observations

WOW, I'm impressed. I too am a low tier contestor, and I also turned
in the best score I ever had for SS-SSB. My K3 worked flawlessly the
entire weekend and the time i spent on the contest was rewareded with
mostly easy to make qso's.

The addition of the P3 last week made it even easier. I'm an S & P
contester, and before when I left one contact, I would creep up/dn the
band until I heard another station. With the P3 set to +/- 10khz, and
PEAK HOLD on, I could 'see' the qso's up and down the band and know to
stop at the next one, even tho it was quiet at the time. I knew it
would come back in a few seconds. This way I picked up a lot of
stations I would normally pass by.

Even the K3 filters get confused with 3 qso's in 4Khz of bandwidth!
But I got some of them. If things were really bad, I'd move on if I
had the Section already.

Noticed two things with this contest. First, how many stations were
occupying as much as 4 kHz of bandwidth. And, did you notice how man
were using some form recorded exchanges/calls? And how many sounded
absolutely terrible? I'm talking outright lousy distorted audio. Some
I had to ask for a repeat item by item to get him to actually speak
and not re-play the recording. I think they would be astounded and
maybe embarrassed if they heard them selves on the air.
I started using my KDVR3 but after hearing some of the others, I quit,
not knowing how I really sounded. I know my mic sounds good. Will have
to check this out soon with some on air recordings from friends.

OK, who's got the Kool-Aid pitcher? Where are the nuts and pretzels?

...bc nr4c

Quoting Nate Bargmann <[hidden email]>:

> Before I start I should note that I'm not a top tier contester. For
> that matter I probably don't even rank very high in the bottom tier, but
> I enjoy the operating so I keep at it. Some may even argue that the K3
> is too advanced of a tool for a back bencher like myself, but I think it
> is a good tool regardless as I will turn in my best personal score of
> SSB SS ever even though I missed the sweep by PR and VI.
>
> I'll add my voice to the chorus praising Elecraft for doing an
> outstanding job with the K3. The receiver meets the hype, IMO, allowing
> me to copy stations that would have been unworkable with my previous
> equipment or at least much more difficult. My previous FT-920 had a DSP
> with Lo and Hi cut so its use on the K3 is natural to me. The
> difference is that nothing gets around the K3's filters to bother the
> DSP (to be fair, the '920s DSP was audio based and out of the AGC loop
> but it could be turned off and one could find many deficiences in the
> IF). I was quite pleased to engage the cut in whatever direction needed
> and often I had clear copy on an otherwise covered signal.
>
> An improved 80/160m doublet allowed me to actually run on 80m Sunday
> morning and evening. Reports indicated good audio and strong signals.
> I was driving the K3 with a Heil Proset Micro with an HC5-5 element.
> Watching the PA temp I never saw it rise above 37C and never heard the
> fans kick up during my runs.
>
> For the first time in many years I gave VOX a try and it was equally as
> useful as the other aspects of the K3. Once set with the microphone
> boom set correctly I was able to operate as smoothly as using the foot
> switch. I even ate a pickle during Sunday evening's run and the VOX
> did not pick that up! I did not engage the anti-VOX as I had already
> set the noise gate.
>
> I am pleased with my purchase of the K3. It is a powerful and useful
> tool no matter one's operating interests, in my opinion. Perhaps I'm
> not the ultimate judge as I don't have any large stations locally to
> contend with but I found the receiver to be crunch proof this weekend.
> The transmitter ran cool and without complaint even when I forgot to
> reset the tuner on excursions up the band on 80m. As I've had six weeks
> to get familiar to the layout, reaching for a needed function did not
> require consulting the manual or delving into the menus (only needed to
> get into the menu when setting the VOX).
>
> I recommend the K3 to anyone looking to improve their station. I expect
> mine to be on my desk for a long time to come.
>
> 73, de Nate, N0NB >>
>
> K3 S/N 4762 with 4.22 beta
>
> --
>
> "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
> possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."
>
> Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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AC7AC

Re: K3 post SS observations

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

Steve Ellington

Re: K3 post SS observations

Another idea for hearing your own signal is at websdr.org. Pick a receiver,
transmit and listen. Usually there is a delay of a couple of seconds.

Steve N4LQ

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 post SS observations

> There is absolutely no substitute for hearing your own signal on the air.
> Not even the K3's built-in monitor.
>
> Commercial broadcast stations (at least when I was messing around in
> broadcast in the 50's and 60's) always had at least one monitor going that
> everyone could hear that was driven by a radio tuned to the actual on-air
> signal. It was not only reassured them about quality but was a
> station-wide
> announcement if anything went down (at least in the little WKRP-sized
> stations I worked in).
>
> Smart Hams do the same, at least sporadically, for both 'phone and CW
> signals.
>
> You don't need a top tier receiver for use as a monitor. SSB capability is
> available cheap in many portable receivers. That also gives you a nifty
> portable for various things, such as chasing RFI or listening to the band
> away from the shack. Some even come with built-in recorders - solid state
> or
> cassette tape.
>
> If you have the KDVR3 option you can transmit a recording while you tune
> in
> your signal on the monitor. If not, it's still easy if you can hear a true
> "zero beat" like us OTs learned to do long ago. Just transmit into a dummy
> load and send a tone (or whistle or hum) while listening to the monitor.
> Tune the monitor for zero beat between the tone source (you, if whistling
> or
> humming) and the audio from the monitor. Now you can record some
> transmission and listen critically on playback.
>
> Just don't forget to use the dummy load :-)
>
> Ron AC7AC
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Noticed two things with this contest. First, how many stations were
> occupying as much as 4 kHz of bandwidth. And, did you notice how man
> were using some form recorded exchanges/calls? And how many sounded
> absolutely terrible? I'm talking outright lousy distorted audio. Some
> I had to ask for a repeat item by item to get him to actually speak
> and not re-play the recording. I think they would be astounded and
> maybe embarrassed if they heard them selves on the air.
> I started using my KDVR3 but after hearing some of the others, I quit,
> not knowing how I really sounded. I know my mic sounds good. Will have
> to check this out soon with some on air recordings from friends.
>
> OK, who's got the Kool-Aid pitcher? Where are the nuts and pretzels?
>
> ...bc nr4c
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Scott Ellington

Re: K3 post SS observations

In reply to this post by AC7AC

Or, just enable the speaker on the monitor receiver, step on the foot switch (SSB mode), and tune the monitor receiver until the warbling feedback noise stabilizes to a (nearly) steady tone. I believe the old Drake Line could do this without transmitting for spotting. Please, do this only with the dummy load!

Scott K9MA

On Nov 22, 2010, at 3:11 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> Just transmit into a dummy
> load and send a tone (or whistle or hum) while listening to the monitor.
> Tune the monitor for zero beat between the tone source (you, if whistling or
> humming) and the audio from the monitor.

Scott Ellington
Madison, Wisconsin
USA

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Johnny Siu

Re： K3 post SS observations

In reply to this post by Nate Bargmann

Hello Nate,

Glad that you chosed K3. I am afraid that FT920 is a different kind of
animal and not in the class of K3. You are now having a Rolls Royce whereas
previously a Toyota.

No offense to any Toyota and FT920 owners!!
cheers,

Johnny VR2XMC

----- 郵件原件 ----
寄件人﹕ Nate Bargmann <[hidden email]>
收件人﹕ Elecraft list <[hidden email]>
傳送日期﹕ 2010/11/23 (二) 12:36:38 AM
主題： [Elecraft] K3 post SS observations

Before I start I should note that I'm not a top tier contester. For
that matter I probably don't even rank very high in the bottom tier, but
I enjoy the operating so I keep at it. Some may even argue that the K3
is too advanced of a tool for a back bencher like myself, but I think it
is a good tool regardless as I will turn in my best personal score of
SSB SS ever even though I missed the sweep by PR and VI.

I'll add my voice to the chorus praising Elecraft for doing an
outstanding job with the K3. The receiver meets the hype, IMO, allowing
me to copy stations that would have been unworkable with my previous
equipment or at least much more difficult. My previous FT-920 had a DSP
with Lo and Hi cut so its use on the K3 is natural to me. The
difference is that nothing gets around the K3's filters to bother the
DSP (to be fair, the '920s DSP was audio based and out of the AGC loop
but it could be turned off and one could find many deficiences in the
IF). I was quite pleased to engage the cut in whatever direction needed
and often I had clear copy on an otherwise covered signal.

An improved 80/160m doublet allowed me to actually run on 80m Sunday
morning and evening. Reports indicated good audio and strong signals.
I was driving the K3 with a Heil Proset Micro with an HC5-5 element.
Watching the PA temp I never saw it rise above 37C and never heard the
fans kick up during my runs.

For the first time in many years I gave VOX a try and it was equally as
useful as the other aspects of the K3. Once set with the microphone
boom set correctly I was able to operate as smoothly as using the foot
switch. I even ate a pickle during Sunday evening's run and the VOX
did not pick that up! I did not engage the anti-VOX as I had already
set the noise gate.

I am pleased with my purchase of the K3. It is a powerful and useful
tool no matter one's operating interests, in my opinion. Perhaps I'm
not the ultimate judge as I don't have any large stations locally to
contend with but I found the receiver to be crunch proof this weekend.
The transmitter ran cool and without complaint even when I forgot to
reset the tuner on excursions up the band on 80m. As I've had six weeks
to get familiar to the layout, reaching for a needed function did not
require consulting the manual or delving into the menus (only needed to
get into the menu when setting the VOX).

I recommend the K3 to anyone looking to improve their station. I expect
mine to be on my desk for a long time to come.

73, de Nate, N0NB >>

K3 S/N 4762 with 4.22 beta

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
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Nate Bargmann

Re: Re： K3 post SS observations

* On 2010 22 Nov 16:30 -0600, Johnny Siu wrote:
> Hello Nate,

Hi Johnny.

> Glad that you chosed K3. I am afraid that FT920 is a different kind of
> animal and not in the class of K3. You are now having a Rolls Royce whereas
> previously a Toyota.

Or, perhaps a Ferrari at a Lexus price?

> No offense to any Toyota and FT920 owners!!

The FT-920 as it was made was a nice step up from older/less featured
radios. Had Yaesu opted to incorporate IF DSP in it, the cost may have
approached that of the FT-1000MP and I think they were looking at a
middle point between that and the FT-840. The AF DSP wasn't such a bad
implementation it's just that corners were cut in the IF stage and it
suffered from strong signal blow-by. I noted that the blow-by could be
masked simply by engaging the DSP even if both controls were set for
maximum bandwidth. I will say that with its large cabinet the fidelity
of received audio via its internal speaker was the best of any radio
I've owned (which is not all that many and none manufactured before
1980). I've been able to achieve the same listening pleasure with the
K3 using a set of stereo speakers and tweaking the RX equalization.

So far I've not owned a Toyota but I am driving a 2009 Ford F-150 4x4
as a company truck and it is very nice. I wasn't raised to be a Ford
man, but it might change my mind. I enjoy getting in it and driving.

73, de Nate, N0NB >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Barry N1EU

Re: Re： K3 post SS observations

Nate Bargmann wrote

The FT-920 as it was made was a nice step up from older/less featured
radios. Had Yaesu opted to incorporate IF DSP in it, the cost may have
approached that of the FT-1000MP and I think they were looking at a
middle point between that and the FT-840. The AF DSP wasn't such a bad
implementation it's just that corners were cut in the IF stage and it
suffered from strong signal blow-by.

FWIW, the FT-1000MP didn't have IF DSP either.

73, Barry N1EU

Nate Bargmann

Re: Re： K3 post SS observations

* On 2010 23 Nov 06:47 -0600, Barry N1EU wrote:

>
>
> Nate Bargmann wrote:
> >
> > The FT-920 as it was made was a nice step up from older/less featured
> > radios. Had Yaesu opted to incorporate IF DSP in it, the cost may have
> > approached that of the FT-1000MP and I think they were looking at a
> > middle point between that and the FT-840. The AF DSP wasn't such a bad
> > implementation it's just that corners were cut in the IF stage and it
> > suffered from strong signal blow-by.
> >
> FWIW, the FT-1000MP didn't have IF DSP either.

That's interesting. I assumed it did. I sat in front of a couple of
MPs in two different shacks over the years and it did not inspire me to
buy one despite the hype.

73, de Nate N0NB >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Guy, K2AV

Re: Re： K3 post SS observations

The audio DSP on the MP was a nice implementation for it's time. The
one big drawback was that the front-end and VHF IF's crushed easily.
Going from the MP to the K3, at NY4A, a whole new layer of DX emerged
that was hidden in the crunch-crud. The selectivity, with matched
INRAD filters at 8 MHz and 455 kHz IF, was and remains excellent. The
MP was a huge step up from my FT101ZD.

73, Guy.

On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 8:08 AM, Nate Bargmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

> * On 2010 23 Nov 06:47 -0600, Barry N1EU wrote:
>>
>>
>> Nate Bargmann wrote:
>> >
>> > The FT-920 as it was made was a nice step up from older/less featured
>> > radios. Had Yaesu opted to incorporate IF DSP in it, the cost may have
>> > approached that of the FT-1000MP and I think they were looking at a
>> > middle point between that and the FT-840. The AF DSP wasn't such a bad
>> > implementation it's just that corners were cut in the IF stage and it
>> > suffered from strong signal blow-by.
>> >
>> FWIW, the FT-1000MP didn't have IF DSP either.
>
> That's interesting. I assumed it did. I sat in front of a couple of
> MPs in two different shacks over the years and it did not inspire me to
> buy one despite the hype.
>
> 73, de Nate N0NB >>
>
> --
>
> "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
> possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."
>
> Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Barry N1EU

Re: Re： K3 post SS observations

In reply to this post by Nate Bargmann

Hate to pile on to our once beloved FT-1000MP, but I owned two MP's and both over time developed REALLY poor/slow AGC recovery during fast action in cw contests. Several years back, I tried to get an up-close snapshot of exactly how the MP AGC was behaving and was shocked at what I was seeing: http://n1eu.com/Yaesu/MPagc.htm

73, Barry N1EU

Nate Bargmann wrote

* On 2010 23 Nov 06:47 -0600, Barry N1EU wrote:

> FWIW, the FT-1000MP didn't have IF DSP either.

That's interesting. I assumed it did. I sat in front of a couple of
MPs in two different shacks over the years and it did not inspire me to
buy one despite the hype.
>>

Guy, K2AV

Re: Re： K3 post SS observations

I found that certain capacitors were changing value over time and had
to be replaced to restore proper AGC operation. Some of the
capacitors had what turned out to be critical values, but did not have
precision components. Some were more than double or one half their
schematic values. It was well known in our circle that some MP's had
good QSK, and others awful.

What a relief a K3 is where those issues are determined in firmware!.
Code does not short out or drift. Can do other stuff that only
happens at Elecraft, but not that. I have my 75A3, Ranger, Courier,
and FT101ZD for nostalgia. Otherwise I really don't want my daddy's
analog radio any more.

73, Guy.

On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Barry N1EU <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hate to pile on to our once beloved FT-1000MP, but I owned two MP's and both
> over time developed REALLY poor/slow AGC recovery during fast action in cw
> contests. Several years back, I tried to get an up-close snapshot of
> exactly how the MP AGC was behaving and was shocked at what I was seeing:
> http://n1eu.com/Yaesu/MPagc.htm
>
> 73, Barry N1EU
>
>
> Nate Bargmann wrote:
>>
>> * On 2010 23 Nov 06:47 -0600, Barry N1EU wrote:
>>
>>> FWIW, the FT-1000MP didn't have IF DSP either.
>>
>> That's interesting. I assumed it did. I sat in front of a couple of
>> MPs in two different shacks over the years and it did not inspire me to
>> buy one despite the hype.
>>>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-post-SS-observations-tp5763289p5766885.html
> Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
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