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K3 question/problem

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K4TM

K3 question/problem

I hesitate to put this question on the reflector but "support at Elecraft" is closed until Wednesday, Jan. 2 - understandable, they DO deserve some time off!

The assembly of K3-100 (#178) is complete and went very smoothly...all tests checked out flawlessly, the filters are properly aligned per the calibration instructions (offsets, proper mode, etc). I have done the frequency synthesizer alignment using the zero beat with WWV but when I tune WWV at 10 MHz, I have to get the dial to about 9.999.92 or so to be right on it.

I have a sked on Sundays with two friends, W5ZNN and WA6EBB, and was hoping to have my K3 operational so they'd be my first contacts. Well, in a sense they were but apparently my signal is about 500 hertz higher than my receive frequency AND the audio sounds narrow and broken. I think the problem may be with the frequency synthesizer alignment...I used the zero beat method until I can get my hands on a frequency counter from some of my more electronically astute ham friends...am I looking in the right direction or should I be looking somewhere else?

Best New Year Wishes to y'all.

73,
Cary, K4TM
Lynchburg, VA
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dj7mgq

Re: K3 question/problem

Hi Cary,

> I hesitate to put this question on the reflector

This what the reflector is for!

> apparently my signal is about 500 hertz higher

You ought to double check which filters you have set up for TX for each
mode. It sounds to me as if you might have a small fubar in your filter
settings. When in doubt, use the 2.7kHz (or the 2.8khz, as the case may
be) for all modes apart from AM. Here you need to use the 6kHz filter,
if you have it.

Also double check that you do not have + and - mixed up on the filter
offsets. AFAIK no filter offsets are needed for the 8 pole filters.

Happy New Year.

toby
--
DD5FZ (ex 4n6fz, dj7mgq, dg5mgq, dd5fz)
K2/10 #885
K2/100 #3248
K3/100 #67
DOK C12, BCC, DL-QRP-AG, JN58td
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 question/problem

In reply to this post by K4TM

Cary,

500 Hz high? Now that sounds like you did the zero beat correctly, but
at one of the WWV tones rather than the carrier. I suggest you try
again. If you want to try an alternate to audible zero-beat, see below
- there will be no confusion about whether you are zero beating a WWV
tone or the carrier.

You might try an alternate to the Zero-Beating method by connecting the
K3 to a computer running Spectrogram. Tune the receiver in LSB or USB
mode to 10.000.000 and listen to the WWV signal - put markers (pointers)
in Spectrogram at 500 Hz and 600 Hz. WWV transmits one of these tones
on alternate minutes.

Then enter the CONFIG menu and find REF CAL. Tune the VFO A knob until
the tones from WWV line up with the markers in Spectrogram.

I consider the above method more accurate than using a frequency counter
of unknown calibration. Of course the audible zero-beat method works
fine too, but there is always the possibility of confusion about whether
one is zeroing the carrier or one of the transmitted tones. The warning
about being certain you are zeroing the carrier goes back to the days
when we were calibrating our secondary frequency standards - one must
wait for a silent minute to be certain we zero the carrier.

Happy New Year.

73,
Don W3FPR

H. Cary III wrote:

> ... I have done the frequency synthesizer alignment using the zero beat with WWV but when I tune WWV at 10 MHz, I have to get the dial to about 9.999.92 or so to be right on it.
>
> I have a sked on Sundays with two friends, W5ZNN and WA6EBB, and was hoping to have my K3 operational so they'd be my first contacts. Well, in a sense they were but apparently my signal is about 500 hertz higher than my receive frequency AND the audio sounds narrow and broken. I think the problem may be with the frequency synthesizer alignment...I used the zero beat method until I can get my hands on a frequency counter from some of my more electronically astute ham friends...am I looking in the right direction or should I be looking somewhere else?
>
> Best New Year Wishes to y'all.
>
> 73,
> Cary, K4TM
> Lynchburg, VA
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
>
>

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dave.wilburn

Re: K3 question/problem

I have had a great deal up success using Spectrogram as Don describes.
This page is very helpful for understanding what goes on, minute by
minute, with the WWV signal.

http://tf.nist.gov/stations/iform.html
-

David Wilburn
[hidden email]
K4DGW
K2 S/N 5982

On Mon, 2007-12-31 at 18:32 -0500, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Cary,
>
> 500 Hz high? Now that sounds like you did the zero beat correctly, but
> at one of the WWV tones rather than the carrier. I suggest you try
> again. If you want to try an alternate to audible zero-beat, see below
> - there will be no confusion about whether you are zero beating a WWV
> tone or the carrier.
>
> You might try an alternate to the Zero-Beating method by connecting the
> K3 to a computer running Spectrogram. Tune the receiver in LSB or USB
> mode to 10.000.000 and listen to the WWV signal - put markers (pointers)
> in Spectrogram at 500 Hz and 600 Hz. WWV transmits one of these tones
> on alternate minutes.
>
> Then enter the CONFIG menu and find REF CAL. Tune the VFO A knob until
> the tones from WWV line up with the markers in Spectrogram.
>
> I consider the above method more accurate than using a frequency counter
> of unknown calibration. Of course the audible zero-beat method works
> fine too, but there is always the possibility of confusion about whether
> one is zeroing the carrier or one of the transmitted tones. The warning
> about being certain you are zeroing the carrier goes back to the days
> when we were calibrating our secondary frequency standards - one must
> wait for a silent minute to be certain we zero the carrier.
>
> Happy New Year.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
>
> H. Cary III wrote:
> > ... I have done the frequency synthesizer alignment using the zero beat with WWV but when I tune WWV at 10 MHz, I have to get the dial to about 9.999.92 or so to be right on it.
> >
> > I have a sked on Sundays with two friends, W5ZNN and WA6EBB, and was hoping to have my K3 operational so they'd be my first contacts. Well, in a sense they were but apparently my signal is about 500 hertz higher than my receive frequency AND the audio sounds narrow and broken. I think the problem may be with the frequency synthesizer alignment...I used the zero beat method until I can get my hands on a frequency counter from some of my more electronically astute ham friends...am I looking in the right direction or should I be looking somewhere else?
> >
> > Best New Year Wishes to y'all.
> >
> > 73,
> > Cary, K4TM
> > Lynchburg, VA
> > _______________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Post to: [hidden email]
> > You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

Rick Kunath

Re: K3 question/problem

David Wilburn wrote:
> I have had a great deal up success using Spectrogram as Don describes.
> This page is very helpful for understanding what goes on, minute by
> minute, with the WWV signal.
>
> http://tf.nist.gov/stations/iform.html
> -

<Snipped>

>>
>> I consider the above method more accurate than using a frequency counter
>> of unknown calibration. Of course the audible zero-beat method works
>> fine too, but there is always the possibility of confusion about whether
>> one is zeroing the carrier or one of the transmitted tones. The warning
>> about being certain you are zeroing the carrier goes back to the days
>> when we were calibrating our secondary frequency standards - one must
>> wait for a silent minute to be certain we zero the carrier.

This is assuming that the sampling rate (or re-sampling error rate)
error in the sound card has been properly measured and a correction
factor entered into the audio spectrum analyzer application.

Rick Kunath, k9ao
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AC7AC

RE: K3 question/problem

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

Robert Brigham

Re: K3 question/problem

In reply to this post by dave.wilburn

Elecrafters,
Another tool that I have used sometime to suppliment
the Spectrogram program is the waterfall display of
Digipan (or any of the similar PSK31 programs). For
example, the waterfall display shows the time
dependence of the WWV components making it easy to
identify the carrier (center band) and the modulated
components which appear symmetrically on either side.
It was also a big help setting up the RTTY filters for
PSK31.
Rob
KC6ROC
K2 #5924

--- David Wilburn <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have had a great deal up success using Spectrogram
> as Don describes.
> This page is very helpful for understanding what
> goes on, minute by
> minute, with the WWV signal.
>
> http://tf.nist.gov/stations/iform.html
> -
>
> David Wilburn
> [hidden email]
> K4DGW
> K2 S/N 5982
>
>
> On Mon, 2007-12-31 at 18:32 -0500, Don Wilhelm
> wrote:
> > Cary,
> >
> > 500 Hz high? Now that sounds like you did the
> zero beat correctly, but
> > at one of the WWV tones rather than the carrier.
> I suggest you try
> > again. If you want to try an alternate to audible
> zero-beat, see below
> > - there will be no confusion about whether you are
> zero beating a WWV
> > tone or the carrier.
> >
> > You might try an alternate to the Zero-Beating
> method by connecting the
> > K3 to a computer running Spectrogram. Tune the
> receiver in LSB or USB
> > mode to 10.000.000 and listen to the WWV signal -
> put markers (pointers)
> > in Spectrogram at 500 Hz and 600 Hz. WWV
> transmits one of these tones
> > on alternate minutes.
> >
> > Then enter the CONFIG menu and find REF CAL. Tune
> the VFO A knob until
> > the tones from WWV line up with the markers in
> Spectrogram.
> >
> > I consider the above method more accurate than
> using a frequency counter
> > of unknown calibration. Of course the audible
> zero-beat method works
> > fine too, but there is always the possibility of
> confusion about whether
> > one is zeroing the carrier or one of the
> transmitted tones. The warning
> > about being certain you are zeroing the carrier
> goes back to the days
> > when we were calibrating our secondary frequency
> standards - one must
> > wait for a silent minute to be certain we zero the
> carrier.
> >
> > Happy New Year.
> >
> > 73,
> > Don W3FPR
> >
> >
> >
> > H. Cary III wrote:
> > > ... I have done the frequency synthesizer
> alignment using the zero beat with WWV but when I
> tune WWV at 10 MHz, I have to get the dial to about
> 9.999.92 or so to be right on it.
> > >
> > > I have a sked on Sundays with two friends, W5ZNN
> and WA6EBB, and was hoping to have my K3 operational
> so they'd be my first contacts. Well, in a sense
> they were but apparently my signal is about 500
> hertz higher than my receive frequency AND the audio
> sounds narrow and broken. I think the problem may
> be with the frequency synthesizer alignment...I used
> the zero beat method until I can get my hands on a
> frequency counter from some of my more
> electronically astute ham friends...am I looking in
> the right direction or should I be looking somewhere
> else?
> > >
> > > Best New Year Wishes to y'all.
> > >
> > > 73,
> > > Cary, K4TM
> > > Lynchburg, VA
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Elecraft mailing list
> > > Post to: [hidden email]
> > > You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> > > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> > >
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > >
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> > > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Post to: [hidden email]
> > You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> >
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
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>
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> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

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