K3: "secret" hardware changes?

[Thom LaCosta]

At 08:13 AM 2/28/2008, Simon pontificated:
>It is not a problem, it is an enhancement. Many of us in the field
>test / bet team have told you what is happening, still you moan!

No....I'm making an observation about communications, and how the
lack thereof stimulates rumors.

But that's interesting that you describe it as an
enhancement....perhaps I am getting confused ... since there are
rumors, which I have been instructed to accept as facts, that there
may be a problem.  Perhaps that's a different issue.

This is all so confusing.....but then again, I get confused when a
software company describes a bug as a feature.

73, Thom

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[Stewart Baker]

A bug is just an undocumented feature :-)

73
Stewart G3RXQ
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 08:46:53 -0500, Thom LaCosta wrote:
> At 08:13 AM 2/28/2008, Simon pontificated:
>> It is not a problem, it is an enhancement. Many of us in the
field
>> test / bet team have told you what is happening, still you
moan!
>>
> No....I'm making an observation about communications, and how
the
> lack thereof stimulates rumors.
>
> But that's interesting that you describe it as an
> enhancement....perhaps I am getting confused ... since there are
> rumors, which I have been instructed to accept as facts, that
there
> may be a problem.  Perhaps that's a different issue.
>
> This is all so confusing.....but then again, I get confused when
a

> software company describes a bug as a feature.
>
> 73, Thom
>
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[ac0h]

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Hash: SHA1

Finally!!

Elecraft decide to implement a couple of hardware upgrades, not fixes,
upgrades, and the nattering nay bobs of negativism come unglued.

You can barely get IKENSU to pay attention to design failures and fixes,
FT1K/D/MP/Mk5 key clicks, IC-756Pro/II/III first CW character "popping",
IC-2720 roasting finals like they're cheap, but Elecraft get taken to
task by some because they weren't consulted first or notified in
advance? Who the hell do some of you people think you are?

Check me if I'm wrong but don't IKENSU make you buy a whole new radio
for "upgrades"? How many IC-756Pro's or Orion I's are running around
with color LCD's? None, zero, zip, nada. Were those upgrades made
available to owners of the older rigs? Nope.

Thanks Joe.

Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
|> Once again, I think most folks are wildly missing the point, which is
|> NOT that changes have been made, but that Elecraft has apparently not
|> been forthcoming with the changes.
|
| Since when does any manufacturer have an affirmative duty to publicly
| discuss prospective design changes?  I'm sure that Elecraft will
| announce modification kits for those who wish to purchase updates.
|
| No manufacturer's warranty ever includes design changes or product
| upgrades (other than perhaps firmware upgrades).
|
| 73,
|
|    ... Joe, W4TV


- --
R. Kevin Stover, ACØH
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[Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy]

Ian J Maude  <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Good grief, Elecraft are running a business, not a charity.  They do not
> have to explain a thing until they wish to.

Very true Ian, but if the K3 natives are getting restless perhaps some
simple comment such as 'it's on the list' might help to stop the chatter, if
Elecraft has the time to do that.

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD

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[drewko]

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 13:59:35 +0000 (GMT), Stewart G3RXQ wrote:

>A bug is just an undocumented feature :-)
>
>73
>Stewart G3RXQ


Speaking of "secret" hardware, how about secret firmware... there must
be an easter egg somewhere in all that K3 code, right?

73,
Drew
AF2Z

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[Simon (HB9DRV)]

The reason you have not heard anything is because Wayne & Eric are
negotiating to buy Neverland from Micky Jackson and move the whole
manufacturing operation *and* the 'enhanced customer care' facility out to
Santa Barbara.

Just a rumour, you didn't hear it from me.

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Thom LaCosta" <[hidden email]>
>
> No....I'm making an observation about communications, and how the lack
> thereof stimulates rumors.
>
 

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[Mark Bayern]

>  Speaking of "secret" hardware, how about secret firmware... there must
>  be an easter egg somewhere in all that K3 code, right?

Yep, just like the ones in the K2, K1 and KX1.

... oh wait ... ahhh ... you mean there aren't any known easter eggs
in all that code?
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[Darwin, Keith]

There is another side to this.  Elecraft has (as any manufacturer does)
the right to make changes without notifying customers.  I guess the
really owe us absolutely nothing in this regard.

- Keith N1AS -
- K2 5411.ssb.100 -
- K3 Wave 3 -
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[Joe Subich, W4TV-3]

> But that's interesting that you describe it as an enhancement....
> perhaps I am getting confused ... since there are rumors, which
> I have been instructed to accept as facts, that there may be a
> problem.  Perhaps that's a different issue.

The issue here is a change in the level at which the hardware AGC
begins to take effect.  There is no "problem" - hardware AGC works
as designed.  However, HAGC may begin acting at a lower level than
absolutely necessary to protect the DSP chip - the design was
conservative.  

If you are following those parts of the discussion that field
testers have allowed to slip in public, it may be possible to
increase the HACG threshold and reduce the somewhat to reduce
the "blocking" effect of strong signals inside the roofing
filter but outside the DSP filter bandwidth without reducing
the close spaced IMDDR.  

The radio is not defective - this is not a fix.  This is an
improvement that may not even be necessary if you are using
"matched" roofing filters - roofing filters with bandwidth
similar to the DSP filter.  However, not every user will need
or want to load the receiver with roofing filters.  Optimizing
the HAGC threshold will provide better performance in the
unique situation of "unmatched" filter bandwidth.

The K3 is not LINUX - it's not open source development and/or
GPL.  Elecraft are a business and have no legal or moral
obligation to make any disclosure or seek your approval before
working on a product improvement.
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thom LaCosta [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 8:47 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: Joe Subich, W4TV; 'S Sacco'
> Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [Elecraft] K3: "secret" hardware changes?
>
>
> At 08:13 AM 2/28/2008, Simon pontificated:
> >It is not a problem, it is an enhancement. Many of us in the field
> >test / bet team have told you what is happening, still you moan!
>
> No....I'm making an observation about communications, and how the
> lack thereof stimulates rumors.
>
> But that's interesting that you describe it as an
> enhancement....perhaps I am getting confused ... since there are
> rumors, which I have been instructed to accept as facts, that there
> may be a problem.  Perhaps that's a different issue.
>
> This is all so confusing.....but then again, I get confused when a
> software company describes a bug as a feature.
>
> 73, Thom
>

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[Joe Stofko-2]

This thread is getting more tiresome by the minute...

Thom, You wrote:
  Instead, by not being forthcoming, the rumor mill ramps up, the loyalists
post to convince the sceptics and vice-versa.

The problem is that your post, and others like it, is the fuel that
feeds the fire that you are complaining about.

I respectfully submit that when you plunked down your money for a K3 and
took delivery of it, you received the product that you ordered, along
with a one year warranty.  You DID NOT purchase anything else.. no
guarantee that Elecraft would provide you with any information regarding
circuit changes, modifications, and a general -hand holding- that some
folks here think is owed to them by Elecraft. Please - please take your
whining somewhere else..... And, if you truly believe that you've been
wronged or that Elecraft mis-represented itself in any advertising
claims or dealings with you, take it up with them or call a lawyer.


As Joe, W4TV, aptly points out:
 Since when does any manufacturer have an affirmative duty to publicly
discuss prospective design changes?  I'm sure that Elecraft will
announce modification kits for those who wish to purchase updates.

No manufacturer's warranty ever includes design changes or product
upgrades (other than perhaps firmware upgrades).

Joe Stofko - W1AIU

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[Thom LaCosta]

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008, Simon Brown (HB9DRV) wrote:

> The reason you have not heard anything is because Wayne & Eric are
> negotiating to buy Neverland from Micky Jackson and move the whole
> manufacturing operation *and* the 'enhanced customer care' facility out to
> Santa Barbara.

Ah....and now we know for sure.
>
> Just a rumour, you didn't hear it from me.

I love it....beleive the rumors, but forget who told you.  Do you work for the
US government?

73 k3hrn
Thom,EIEIO
Email, Internet, Electronic Information Officer

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[Thom LaCosta]

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008, Joe Stofko wrote:

> This thread is getting more tiresome by the minute...

Yes, and even more the posts from folks like yourelf.


73 thom
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[Thom LaCosta]

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008, R. Kevin Stover wrote:

>
> Elecraft decide to implement a couple of hardware upgrades, not fixes,
> upgrades, and the nattering nay bobs of negativism come unglued.

My, what a wordsmith.
>
> You can barely get IKENSU to pay attention to design failures and fixes,
> FT1K/D/MP/Mk5 key clicks, IC-756Pro/II/III first CW character "popping",
> IC-2720 roasting finals like they're cheap, but Elecraft get taken to
> task by some because they weren't consulted first or notified in
> advance?

Learn how to read....I never asked to be consulted first.  I've been told to
believe the rumors....what kind of stupidity is that?


Thom,EIEIO
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[Larry Putman]

Well said Joe!!!!
 
Larry Putman WB3ANQ



----- Original Message ----
From: Joe Stofko <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 10:21:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: "secret" hardware changes?

This thread is getting more tiresome by the minute...

Thom, You wrote:
  Instead, by not being forthcoming, the rumor mill ramps up, the loyalists
post to convince the skeptics and vice-versa.

The problem is that your post, and others like it, is the fuel that
feeds the fire that you are complaining about.

I respectfully submit that when you plunked down your money for a K3 and
took delivery of it, you received the product that you ordered, along
with a one year warranty.  You DID NOT purchase anything else.. no
guarantee that Elecraft would provide you with any information regarding
circuit changes, modifications, and a general -hand holding- that some
folks here think is owed to them by Elecraft. Please - please take your
whining somewhere else..... And, if you truly believe that you've been
wronged or that Elecraft mis-represented itself in any advertising
claims or dealings with you, take it up with them or call a lawyer.


As Joe, W4TV, aptly points out:
 Since when does any manufacturer have an affirmative duty to publicly
discuss prospective design changes?  I'm sure that Elecraft will
announce modification kits for those who wish to purchase updates.

No manufacturer's warranty ever includes design changes or product
upgrades (other than perhaps firmware upgrades).

Joe Stofko - W1AIU

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      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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[dave.wilburn]

But based on past events, Elecraft has always worked out an acceptable
  and equitable solution to these issues.  I say leave them alone and
let them handle their business.  When they have a solution, they will
present it.  Till then folks are getting themselves worked up over
events they cannot control.

 From W.W. Bartley

     For every ailment under the sun
     There is a remedy, or there is none;
     If there be one, try to find it;
     If there be none, never mind it.

Dave Wilburn
K4DGW
K2/100 - S/N 5982


Joe Stofko wrote:

> This thread is getting more tiresome by the minute...
>
> Thom, You wrote:
>   Instead, by not being forthcoming, the rumor mill ramps up, the loyalists
> post to convince the sceptics and vice-versa.
>
> The problem is that your post, and others like it, is the fuel that
> feeds the fire that you are complaining about.
>
> I respectfully submit that when you plunked down your money for a K3 and
> took delivery of it, you received the product that you ordered, along
> with a one year warranty.  You DID NOT purchase anything else.. no
> guarantee that Elecraft would provide you with any information regarding
> circuit changes, modifications, and a general -hand holding- that some
> folks here think is owed to them by Elecraft. Please - please take your
> whining somewhere else..... And, if you truly believe that you've been
> wronged or that Elecraft mis-represented itself in any advertising
> claims or dealings with you, take it up with them or call a lawyer.
>
>
> As Joe, W4TV, aptly points out:
>  Since when does any manufacturer have an affirmative duty to publicly
> discuss prospective design changes?  I'm sure that Elecraft will
> announce modification kits for those who wish to purchase updates.
>
> No manufacturer's warranty ever includes design changes or product
> upgrades (other than perhaps firmware upgrades).
>
> Joe Stofko - W1AIU
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

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