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K3 - remote (revenue opportunity?)

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DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL

K3 - remote (revenue opportunity?)

Gosh...so many guys in various "markets" want access to a remote station!

Wonder if I could sell access time? I have a pretty nice station
setup in NJ and I'm only QRV during some contests (just the "big"
ones).

Otherwise, the rigs/station sits idle.

When I was in H.S. (don't ask), we used to pay a lot of money for "tie
line time" to an IBM computer somewhere. Worked then...why not now?

Sounds like this could be mutually beneficial! Of course, not sure
how you would my P3 remotely...any suggestions?

LOL (but not really?)

de Doug KR2Q
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 - remote (revenue opportunity?)

Doug,

Do you have a dedicated computer connected to your ham installation?

Rather than the P3 display for remote operation, I might suggest the
LP-Pan solution would be better. The computers can be connected by VNC
and the operator at the remote site could have access to the entire
computer screen which could include a panadapter display. The only
other way I can think of is to put the P3 display on a webcam, but that
seems "clunky" to me.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/16/2012 7:41 PM, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote:

> Gosh...so many guys in various "markets" want access to a remote station!
>
> Wonder if I could sell access time? I have a pretty nice station
> setup in NJ and I'm only QRV during some contests (just the "big"
> ones).
>
> Otherwise, the rigs/station sits idle.
>
> When I was in H.S. (don't ask), we used to pay a lot of money for "tie
> line time" to an IBM computer somewhere. Worked then...why not now?
>
> Sounds like this could be mutually beneficial! Of course, not sure
> how you would my P3 remotely...any suggestions?
>
> LOL (but not really?)
>
> de Doug KR2Q
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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David Gilbert

Re: K3 - remote (revenue opportunity?)

In reply to this post by DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL

Hi, Doug.

That's not all that farfetched, but I think the FCC prohibits that sort
of thing.

73,
Dave AB7E

On 1/16/2012 5:41 PM, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote:

David Gilbert

Re: K3 - remote (revenue opportunity?)

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Yup. Free programs like LogMeIn would do the trick as well ... assuming
use of an LP-Pan for the panadapter.

73,
Dave AB7E

On 1/16/2012 6:05 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Doug,
>
> Do you have a dedicated computer connected to your ham installation?
>
> Rather than the P3 display for remote operation, I might suggest the
> LP-Pan solution would be better. The computers can be connected by VNC
> and the operator at the remote site could have access to the entire
> computer screen which could include a panadapter display. The only
> other way I can think of is to put the P3 display on a webcam, but that
> seems "clunky" to me.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 1/16/2012 7:41 PM, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote:
>> Gosh...so many guys in various "markets" want access to a remote station!
>>
>> Wonder if I could sell access time? I have a pretty nice station
>> setup in NJ and I'm only QRV during some contests (just the "big"
>> ones).
>>
>> Otherwise, the rigs/station sits idle.
>>
>> When I was in H.S. (don't ask), we used to pay a lot of money for "tie
>> line time" to an IBM computer somewhere. Worked then...why not now?
>>
>> Sounds like this could be mutually beneficial! Of course, not sure
>> how you would my P3 remotely...any suggestions?
>>
>> LOL (but not really?)
>>
>> de Doug KR2Q
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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>

Alan Bloom

Re: K3 - remote (revenue opportunity?)

In reply to this post by DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL

Hi Ron,

Section 97.112 with the "no remuneration for use of station" provision
was eliminated from the regulations some years ago. So I think it is
now legal to rent out your station to other operators.

However, the "communications for hire" section 97.113 appears to make it
illegal to PAY someone to use your station. So you can't hire a "dream
team" of world-class contesters to put your callsign at the top of the
Sweepstakes, for example.

But there's no rule against giving them free beer and pizza. :=)

Alan N1AL

On Mon, 2012-01-16 at 20:08 -0800, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> I would not be a bit surprised to see that done *if* the FCC doesn't decide
> your Amateur License is being used for business purposes.
>
> Since US Hams are allowed to operate any equipment they choose at any
> location within the jurisdiction of the FCC, it would seem proper for them
> to use their own call signs when using such a service. That is, the
> "assigned" call mentioned in Part 97.119 (a) refers to the person in control
> of the transmitter, not the person who owns it.
>
> After all, if I took a trip and had someone house-sit for me who was a Ham,
> it would not be proper for him to use my call if he operated the station at
> my home. Instead, it would be just the same as if he had brought his own
> equipment and erected his own antenna. I believe my responsibility would be
> to ensure he was licensed before granting access to my station equipment.
>
> The idea might produce yet another round of questions and rule-making.
>
> And that keeps the lawyers busy, Hi!
>
> 73,
>
> Ron AC7AC

Phil Hystad-3

Re: K3 - remote (revenue opportunity?)

The ultimate of ham radio...

1. Find the best contest station and rent time on it.
2. Find the best dream team of contesters and feed them beer and pizza.
3. Sit back and rest during contest day.
4. Collect accolades from friends and the world when your top winning numbers show up
in the magazines.

Better yet, save time, money, and effort and just day-dream that you have won the
big one all on your own.

On Jan 16, 2012, at 9:41 PM, Alan Bloom wrote:

> Hi Ron,
>
> Section 97.112 with the "no remuneration for use of station" provision
> was eliminated from the regulations some years ago. So I think it is
> now legal to rent out your station to other operators.
>
> However, the "communications for hire" section 97.113 appears to make it
> illegal to PAY someone to use your station. So you can't hire a "dream
> team" of world-class contesters to put your callsign at the top of the
> Sweepstakes, for example.
>
> But there's no rule against giving them free beer and pizza. :=)
>
> Alan N1AL
>
>
> On Mon, 2012-01-16 at 20:08 -0800, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
>> I would not be a bit surprised to see that done *if* the FCC doesn't decide
>> your Amateur License is being used for business purposes.
>>
>> Since US Hams are allowed to operate any equipment they choose at any
>> location within the jurisdiction of the FCC, it would seem proper for them
>> to use their own call signs when using such a service. That is, the
>> "assigned" call mentioned in Part 97.119 (a) refers to the person in control
>> of the transmitter, not the person who owns it.
>>
>> After all, if I took a trip and had someone house-sit for me who was a Ham,
>> it would not be proper for him to use my call if he operated the station at
>> my home. Instead, it would be just the same as if he had brought his own
>> equipment and erected his own antenna. I believe my responsibility would be
>> to ensure he was licensed before granting access to my station equipment.
>>
>> The idea might produce yet another round of questions and rule-making.
>>
>> And that keeps the lawyers busy, Hi!
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Ron AC7AC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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Rick WA6NHC

Re: K3 - remote (revenue opportunity?)

In reply to this post by Alan Bloom

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 47, Volume 5]
[Revised as of October 1, 2006]
>From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 47CFR97.3]
TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION

CHAPTER I--FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION (CONTINUED)

PART 97_AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE--Table of Contents

Subpart A_General Provisions

Sec. 97.3 Definitions.
" (4) Amateur service. A radiocommunication service for the purpose of
self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried
out by amateurs, that is, duly authorized persons interested in radio
technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest."

Means you can't make any money (or profit) of any kind for having/using your
license. It's still on the written test too.

The only remuneration that is acceptable is to reimburse Volunteer Examiners
for the training and testing expenses.

Rick WA6NHC

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Bloom

Hi Ron,

Section 97.112 with the "no remuneration for use of station" provision
was eliminated from the regulations some years ago. So I think it is
now legal to rent out your station to other operators.

However, the "communications for hire" section 97.113 appears to make it
illegal to PAY someone to use your station. So you can't hire a "dream
team" of world-class contesters to put your callsign at the top of the
Sweepstakes, for example.

But there's no rule against giving them free beer and pizza. :=)

Alan N1AL

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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: K3 - remote (revenue opportunity?) [End of Thread]

Administrator

Let's end this thread at this time in the interest of keeping list volume under control. Amateur Radio Policy discussions should be continued on other forums or via direct email between participants.

73,
Eric
List Moderator
www.elecraft.com
_..._

On Jan 16, 2012, at 10:01 PM, Rick Bates <[hidden email]> wrote:

> [Code of Federal Regulations]
> [Title 47, Volume 5]
> [Revised as of October 1, 2006]
>> From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
> [CITE: 47CFR97.3]
> TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION
>
> CHAPTER I--FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION (CONTINUED)
>
> PART 97_AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE--Table of Contents
>
> Subpart A_General Provisions
>
> Sec. 97.3 Definitions.
> " (4) Amateur service. A radiocommunication service for the purpose of
> self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried
> out by amateurs, that is, duly authorized persons interested in radio
> technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest."
>
> Means you can't make any money (or profit) of any kind for having/using your
> license. It's still on the written test too.
>
> The only remuneration that is acceptable is to reimburse Volunteer Examiners
> for the training and testing expenses.
>
> Rick WA6NHC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Bloom
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> Section 97.112 with the "no remuneration for use of station" provision
> was eliminated from the regulations some years ago. So I think it is
> now legal to rent out your station to other operators.
>
> However, the "communications for hire" section 97.113 appears to make it
> illegal to PAY someone to use your station. So you can't hire a "dream
> team" of world-class contesters to put your callsign at the top of the
> Sweepstakes, for example.
>
> But there's no rule against giving them free beer and pizza. :=)
>
> Alan N1AL
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Thomas Horsten

Re: K3 - remote (revenue opportunity?)

In reply to this post by Rick WA6NHC

On 17 January 2012 06:01, Rick Bates <[hidden email]> wrote:

" (4) Amateur service. A radiocommunication service for the purpose of
> self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried
> out by amateurs, that is, duly authorized persons interested in radio
> technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest."
>
> Means you can't make any money (or profit) of any kind for having/using
> your
> license. It's still on the written test too.
>

If you are renting out your equipment (or the use of it) you're not making
a profit from having or using your license. You are allowed to own the
equipment without a license, just not use it. For example, you could own a
company that owned the station, that company would not be licensed and so
not bound by any FCC rules, and would be free to rent out time on the
station. Another example would be a hotel or guest house in a rare dx qth,
who have a station they make available for the use of visiting (paying) ham
guests, again they may not have a license themselves but the visiting ham
does.

The only license "active" under such arrangements would be the user/renter,
and I doubt there's anything in the license prohibiting you from *paying*
money to operate - in that case it would also be questionable to buy a rig
on credit, for example, since in such cases the small print usually states
that the equipment remains the property of the seller/lender until paid in
full.

So yes I can't see how this would be illegal, except in jurisdictions where
ownership of ham equipment is restricted to licensed individuals, or
operating is restricted to equipment you own.

But IANAL and YMMV :)

73, Thomas M0TRN
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drewko

Re: K3 - remote (revenue opportunity?) [End of Thread]

In reply to this post by Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Sorry, didn't see the EOT notice. My apologies.

73,
Drew
AF2Z

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 22:10:33 -0800, you wrote:

>Let's end this thread at this time in the interest of keeping list volume under control. Amateur Radio Policy discussions should be continued on other forums or via direct email between participants.
>
>73,
>Eric
>List Moderator
>www.elecraft.com
>_..._

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Iain MacDonnell - N6ML-2

Re: K3 - remote (revenue opportunity?)

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

VNC isn't really usable for something as graphically-intensive as a
panadapter display. I run CW Skimmer on my remote station, accessed
with VNC, and have to keep the window very small to prevent the VNC
session from choking, and I have Mbps of bandwidth.

I've been toying with the idea of trying to tunnel the I/Q audio over
a stream and rendering it in a panadapter / skimmer instance running
at the control point, but haven't gotten around to trying it.

~iain / N6ML

On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

Tom-5

Re: K3 - remote (revenue opportunity?)

Iain,

I sometimes run an SDR-IQ tied to the IF of my remote K3. I am
using UltraVnc when I do this (rig control and audio is with the
RemoteRig). With a half size window, I am OK with buffering etc, but if
myself or my wife loads a largish web page, I get audio stuttering on
the remoterig. I am looking to put a router behind my ATT Uverse router,
so that I an prioritize the audio and remote control packets.

I have to turn the computer on at the remote site to run the SDR-IQ
software of course. But the display is nice to have. And thats my excuse
:)

tom k8tb with 2 k3's and a k3/0 on deck...

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 11:34:20 -0800, iain macdonnell - N6ML wrote:

> VNC isn't really usable for something as graphically-intensive as a
> panadapter display. I run CW Skimmer on my remote station, accessed
> with VNC, and have to keep the window very small to prevent the VNC
> session from choking, and I have Mbps of bandwidth.
>
> I've been toying with the idea of trying to tunnel the I/Q audio over
> a stream and rendering it in a panadapter / skimmer instance running
> at the control point, but haven't gotten around to trying it.
>
> ~iain / N6ML