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K3 shortened dits - you can remedy this under N1MM+

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DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL

K3 shortened dits - you can remedy this under N1MM+

In N1MM+
Go to Configurer
Select WINKEY tab
Change value in the Keying Compensation window to 6
Magic

de Doug KR2Q
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Dave Hachadorian-2

Re: K3 shortened dits - you can remedy this under N1MM+

I found out today that there is another way to change weight under N1MM -
config/ports/other tab/weight.

I wonder how many people do not realize that K3's lighten CW keying applied
through the KEY jack, and that their dits are wimpy? I operated that way
for 12 years, until W3LPL told me about it yesterday. The K3 monitor sounds
normal.

Life is too short for wimpy dits!

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Zwiebel
Sent: Sunday, December 6, 2020 6:38 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 shortened dits - you can remedy this under N1MM+

In N1MM+
Go to Configurer
Select WINKEY tab
Change value in the Keying Compensation window to 6
Magic

de Doug KR2Q
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john@kk9a.com

Re: K3 shortened dits - you can remedy this under N1MM+

In reply to this post by DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL

I have never heard of this issue until your post. In DX contests, dits
sometimes disappear so we certainly to done want wimpy dits! Does this
issue also exist with the K3S? Is there a similar solution for those of us
that use Writelog?

John KK9A

Dave Hachadorian K6LL wrote:

I found out today that there is another way to change weight under N1MM -
config/ports/other tab/weight.

I wonder how many people do not realize that K3's lighten CW keying applied

through the KEY jack, and that their dits are wimpy? I operated that way
for 12 years, until W3LPL told me about it yesterday. The K3 monitor sounds

normal.

Life is too short for wimpy dits!

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ

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Dave Fugleberg

Re: K3 shortened dits - you can remedy this under N1MM+

Does this become apparent only above a certain speed? I'm guessing it's not
as big an issue below 30wpm or so, but would be good to know.

On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 10:23 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have never heard of this issue until your post. In DX contests, dits
> sometimes disappear so we certainly to done want wimpy dits! Does this
> issue also exist with the K3S? Is there a similar solution for those of us
> that use Writelog?
>
> John KK9A
>
> Dave Hachadorian K6LL wrote:
>
> I found out today that there is another way to change weight under N1MM -
> config/ports/other tab/weight.
>
> I wonder how many people do not realize that K3's lighten CW keying
> applied
>
> through the KEY jack, and that their dits are wimpy? I operated that way
> for 12 years, until W3LPL told me about it yesterday. The K3 monitor
> sounds
>
> normal.
>
> Life is too short for wimpy dits!
>
> Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
> Yuma, AZ
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Dave Hachadorian-2

Re: K3 shortened dits - you can remedy this under N1MM+

In reply to this post by Dave Hachadorian-2

Looking at it yesterday on the scope, a string of dits was about 40% duty
cycle, or even as low as 33%, depending on how you score the rise and fall
time. I did the test at 22 wpm and 44 wpm, and results were the same. Both
speeds were corrected by using keying compensation = 6.

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Green
Sent: Monday, December 7, 2020 9:41 AM
To: Dave Hachadorian
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 shortened dits - you can remedy this under N1MM+

First I’ve heard about this, and I’ve used K3’s since they were introduced.
Can you provide some details on why and how much the keying is lightened?

73, Dick WC1M

73, Dick WC1M

> On Dec 6, 2020, at 9:45 PM, Dave Hachadorian <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I found out today that there is another way to change weight under N1MM -
> config/ports/other tab/weight.
>
> I wonder how many people do not realize that K3's lighten CW keying
> applied through the KEY jack, and that their dits are wimpy? I operated
> that way for 12 years, until W3LPL told me about it yesterday. The K3
> monitor sounds normal.
>
> Life is too short for wimpy dits!
>
> Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
> Yuma, AZ
>
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Zwiebel
> Sent: Sunday, December 6, 2020 6:38 PM
> To: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 shortened dits - you can remedy this under N1MM+
>
> In N1MM+
> Go to Configurer
> Select WINKEY tab
> Change value in the Keying Compensation window to 6
> Magic
>
> de Doug KR2Q
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

N7US

Re: K3 shortened dits - you can remedy this under N1MM+

Wasn't this problem fixed with the new synthesizer?

73, Jim N7US

-----Original Message-----

Looking at it yesterday on the scope, a string of dits was about 40% duty cycle, or even as low as 33%, depending on how you score the rise and fall time. I did the test at 22 wpm and 44 wpm, and results were the same. Both speeds were corrected by using keying compensation = 6.

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ

-----Original Message-----

First I’ve heard about this, and I’ve used K3’s since they were introduced.
Can you provide some details on why and how much the keying is lightened?

73, Dick WC1M

73, Dick WC1M

> On Dec 6, 2020, at 9:45 PM, Dave Hachadorian <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I found out today that there is another way to change weight under
> N1MM - config/ports/other tab/weight.
>
> I wonder how many people do not realize that K3's lighten CW keying
> applied through the KEY jack, and that their dits are wimpy? I
> operated that way for 12 years, until W3LPL told me about it
> yesterday. The K3 monitor sounds normal.
>
> Life is too short for wimpy dits!
>
> Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
> Yuma, AZ
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> In N1MM+
> Go to Configurer
> Select WINKEY tab
> Change value in the Keying Compensation window to 6 Magic
>
> de Doug KR2Q

Dave Hachadorian-2

Re: K3 shortened dits - you can remedy this under N1MM+

I have the new synthesizer.

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim McDonald
Sent: Monday, December 7, 2020 11:19 AM
To: Reflector Elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 shortened dits - you can remedy this under N1MM+

Wasn't this problem fixed with the new synthesizer?

73, Jim N7US

-----Original Message-----

Looking at it yesterday on the scope, a string of dits was about 40% duty
cycle, or even as low as 33%, depending on how you score the rise and fall
time. I did the test at 22 wpm and 44 wpm, and results were the same. Both
speeds were corrected by using keying compensation = 6.

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ

-----Original Message-----

First I’ve heard about this, and I’ve used K3’s since they were introduced.
Can you provide some details on why and how much the keying is lightened?

73, Dick WC1M

73, Dick WC1M

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3 shortened dits - you can remedy this under N1MM+

In reply to this post by Dave Fugleberg

The approximately 6 ms of dit shortening represents 10% of the
dit length at 20 WPM. It gets progressively worse as the speed
increases (20% at 40 WPM, 30% at 60 WPM, etc.).

Note: this only applies to K3 models that do not have the
upgraded synthesizer.

For an unmodified K3 the solution(s) are:

1) turn on CW QRQ (and lose RIT/XIT/split)
2) Upgrade to the new synthesizer (x2 if sub RX is installed)
3) Use an external WinKeyer with dit compensation at 6 ms.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2020-12-07 8:47 AM, Dave Fugleberg wrote:

> Does this become apparent only above a certain speed? I'm guessing it's not
> as big an issue below 30wpm or so, but would be good to know.
>
> On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 10:23 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I have never heard of this issue until your post. In DX contests, dits
>> sometimes disappear so we certainly to done want wimpy dits! Does this
>> issue also exist with the K3S? Is there a similar solution for those of us
>> that use Writelog?
>>
>> John KK9A
>>
>> Dave Hachadorian K6LL wrote:
>>
>> I found out today that there is another way to change weight under N1MM -
>> config/ports/other tab/weight.
>>
>> I wonder how many people do not realize that K3's lighten CW keying
>> applied
>>
>> through the KEY jack, and that their dits are wimpy? I operated that way
>> for 12 years, until W3LPL told me about it yesterday. The K3 monitor
>> sounds
>>
>> normal.
>>
>> Life is too short for wimpy dits!
>>
>> Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
>> Yuma, AZ
>>

Dave Hachadorian-2

Re: K3 shortened dits - you can remedy this under N1MM+

I have the upgraded synthesizer and still see the shortened dits.

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Subich, W4TV
Sent: Monday, December 7, 2020 12:03 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 shortened dits - you can remedy this under N1MM+

The approximately 6 ms of dit shortening represents 10% of the
dit length at 20 WPM. It gets progressively worse as the speed
increases (20% at 40 WPM, 30% at 60 WPM, etc.).

Note: this only applies to K3 models that do not have the
upgraded synthesizer.

For an unmodified K3 the solution(s) are:

1) turn on CW QRQ (and lose RIT/XIT/split)
2) Upgrade to the new synthesizer (x2 if sub RX is installed)
3) Use an external WinKeyer with dit compensation at 6 ms.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2020-12-07 8:47 AM, Dave Fugleberg wrote:

> Does this become apparent only above a certain speed? I'm guessing it's
> not
> as big an issue below 30wpm or so, but would be good to know.
>
> On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 10:23 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I have never heard of this issue until your post. In DX contests, dits
>> sometimes disappear so we certainly to done want wimpy dits! Does this
>> issue also exist with the K3S? Is there a similar solution for those of
>> us
>> that use Writelog?
>>
>> John KK9A
>>
>> Dave Hachadorian K6LL wrote:
>>
>> I found out today that there is another way to change weight under N1MM -
>> config/ports/other tab/weight.
>>
>> I wonder how many people do not realize that K3's lighten CW keying
>> applied
>>
>> through the KEY jack, and that their dits are wimpy? I operated that way
>> for 12 years, until W3LPL told me about it yesterday. The K3 monitor
>> sounds
>>
>> normal.
>>
>> Life is too short for wimpy dits!
>>
>> Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
>> Yuma, AZ
>>

Barry Simpson-2

Re: K3 shortened dits - you can remedy this under N1MM+

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

I beg to differ.

I have an original K3 dating from 2009 which I completely updated including the synthesisers. It made no difference to the shortened character issue which is still the same.

It is there both in QSK and semi break in modes but does not occur if transmit switching is manual only, eg a foot switch with VOX turned off.

I use mainly Idiom Press keyers and I have always compensated by setting the weight to around 54.

I am surprised that this issue has only surfaced again now and received such widespread comment and acknowledgement that it exists. I raised it in a post several years ago but I was unable to attract any response.

Kenwood does not have such an issue with any of their rigs including the TS890 which I own nor does my Ten Tec Orion 2. Of course all Icoms are awfully shortened in QSK but not so much in semi break in.

Barry VK2BJ

Sent from my iPhone

> On 8 Dec 2020, at 06:03, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> The approximately 6 ms of dit shortening represents 10% of the
> dit length at 20 WPM. It gets progressively worse as the speed
> increases (20% at 40 WPM, 30% at 60 WPM, etc.).
>
> Note: this only applies to K3 models that do not have the
> upgraded synthesizer.
>
> For an unmodified K3 the solution(s) are:
>
> 1) turn on CW QRQ (and lose RIT/XIT/split)
> 2) Upgrade to the new synthesizer (x2 if sub RX is installed)
> 3) Use an external WinKeyer with dit compensation at 6 ms.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>> On 2020-12-07 8:47 AM, Dave Fugleberg wrote:
>> Does this become apparent only above a certain speed? I'm guessing it's not
>> as big an issue below 30wpm or so, but would be good to know.
>>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 10:23 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I have never heard of this issue until your post. In DX contests, dits
>>> sometimes disappear so we certainly to done want wimpy dits! Does this
>>> issue also exist with the K3S? Is there a similar solution for those of us
>>> that use Writelog?
>>>
>>> John KK9A
>>>
>>> Dave Hachadorian K6LL wrote:
>>>
>>> I found out today that there is another way to change weight under N1MM -
>>> config/ports/other tab/weight.
>>>
>>> I wonder how many people do not realize that K3's lighten CW keying
>>> applied
>>>
>>> through the KEY jack, and that their dits are wimpy? I operated that way
>>> for 12 years, until W3LPL told me about it yesterday. The K3 monitor
>>> sounds
>>>
>>> normal.
>>>
>>> Life is too short for wimpy dits!
>>>
>>> Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
>>> Yuma, AZ
>>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jan Erik Holm

Re: K3 shortened dits - you can remedy this under N1MM+

How do you have the TX DLY set ?

/ Jim SM2EKM

Den 2020-12-07 kl. 20:37, skrev Barry Simpson:

> I beg to differ.
>
> I have an original K3 dating from 2009 which I completely updated including the synthesisers. It made no difference to the shortened character issue which is still the same.
>
> It is there both in QSK and semi break in modes but does not occur if transmit switching is manual only, eg a foot switch with VOX turned off.
>
> I use mainly Idiom Press keyers and I have always compensated by setting the weight to around 54.
>
> I am surprised that this issue has only surfaced again now and received such widespread comment and acknowledgement that it exists. I raised it in a post several years ago but I was unable to attract any response.
>
> Kenwood does not have such an issue with any of their rigs including the TS890 which I own nor does my Ten Tec Orion 2. Of course all Icoms are awfully shortened in QSK but not so much in semi break in.
>
> Barry VK2BJ
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 8 Dec 2020, at 06:03, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> The approximately 6 ms of dit shortening represents 10% of the
>> dit length at 20 WPM. It gets progressively worse as the speed
>> increases (20% at 40 WPM, 30% at 60 WPM, etc.).
>>
>> Note: this only applies to K3 models that do not have the
>> upgraded synthesizer.
>>
>> For an unmodified K3 the solution(s) are:
>>
>> 1) turn on CW QRQ (and lose RIT/XIT/split)
>> 2) Upgrade to the new synthesizer (x2 if sub RX is installed)
>> 3) Use an external WinKeyer with dit compensation at 6 ms.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>>> On 2020-12-07 8:47 AM, Dave Fugleberg wrote:
>>> Does this become apparent only above a certain speed? I'm guessing it's not
>>> as big an issue below 30wpm or so, but would be good to know.
>>>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 10:23 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> I have never heard of this issue until your post. In DX contests, dits
>>>> sometimes disappear so we certainly to done want wimpy dits! Does this
>>>> issue also exist with the K3S? Is there a similar solution for those of us
>>>> that use Writelog?
>>>>
>>>> John KK9A
>>>>
>>>> Dave Hachadorian K6LL wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I found out today that there is another way to change weight under N1MM -
>>>> config/ports/other tab/weight.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder how many people do not realize that K3's lighten CW keying
>>>> applied
>>>>
>>>> through the KEY jack, and that their dits are wimpy? I operated that way
>>>> for 12 years, until W3LPL told me about it yesterday. The K3 monitor
>>>> sounds
>>>>
>>>> normal.
>>>>
>>>> Life is too short for wimpy dits!
>>>>
>>>> Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
>>>> Yuma, AZ
>>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

ANDY DURBIN

K3 shortened dits - you can remedy this under N1MM+

In reply to this post by DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL

"Kenwood does not have such an issue with any of their rigs"

Shortening of the first element was evident in the keying tests I ran on my TS-590S. It's not an issue at 25 wpm but at 90+ wpm the first dit may be completely lost. The shortening is not present on every element, only on the first element after RX/TX switching.

Andy, k3wyc
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Bill Frantz

Re: K3 shortened dits - you can remedy this under N1MM+

This shortening shows up in the ARRL tests as well.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 12/8/20 at 10:19 PM, [hidden email] (Andy Durbin) wrote:

>"Kenwood does not have such an issue with any of their rigs"
>
>Shortening of the first element was evident in the keying tests
>I ran on my TS-590S. It's not an issue at 25 wpm but at 90+
>wpm the first dit may be completely lost. The shortening is
>not present on every element, only on the first element after
>RX/TX switching.

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Rich NE1EE-2

Re: K3 shortened dits - you can remedy this under N1MM+

In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN

On 2020-12-08 03:19:+0000, Andy Durbin wrote:
>"Kenwood does not have such an issue with any of their rigs"
>
>Shortening of the first element was evident in the keying tests I ran on my TS-590S. It's not an issue at 25 wpm but at 90+ wpm the first dit may be completely lost. The shortening is not present on every element, only on the first element after RX/TX switching.
>
>Andy, k3wyc

Hmm...I wonder if that has anything to do with break in? Just a random thought...

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ANDY DURBIN

Re: K3 shortened dits - you can remedy this under N1MM+

In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN

"Hmm...I wonder if that has anything to do with break in? Just a random thought... "

I should have stated that my TS-590S keying test was with VOX keying. Some shortening of the first element would be expected. I have never connected the PTT line of my Winkeyer.

73,
Andy, k3wyc

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