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K3 - stuck at MCU LD we upgrading software

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George Thornton

Re: K3 - stuck at MCU LD we upgrading software

The history of my Astron 35 metered power supply is that it has been moved around a lot because I have brought it to Field Day for multiple years.

I took it apart today and found that although the connection between the power leads and the bolts was tight, the connection between the bolt and the housing of the power supply had worked a bit loose over the years. I took things apart and tightened the connection between the case and the bolt.

It is all back together and working fine. I also have a direct connection between the PS and the K3 using thicker wire.

The K3 is working fine right now.

In the past I suffered loss of transmit power although RX was fine. I don’t remember the error message but I think it was ERR DSP. With every failure reloading the firmware and calibrating power cleared it up. The information I had was that this error can be associated with erratic power supply issues.

From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 7:28 PM
To: James Walker <[hidden email]>; N2TK, Tony <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - stuck at MCU LD we upgrading software

Jimmy,

You should see little voltage sag on transmit, especially at QRP levels.

Compare the voltage directly at your power supply terminals between
receive and transmit. If it stays up, then check your power cable to
the K3 for adequate size wire and good connections. If you have a DC
power distribution device like the RigRunner, remove the K3 from it and
connect direct from the power supply to the K3.

OTOH, if the voltage at the terminals droops during transmit, open the
power supply cover and remove the bolt terminals - clean the solder lugs
on the inside and the bolts, then reassemble making certain the bolts
are tight. If those bolts turn even a little bit when tightening the
external bolts, they are not tight. You must have tight connections at
the power supply.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/28/2017 3:49 PM, James Walker wrote:
> Yours is not the Astron power supply I was using. Mine was the 35A, transformer style, not switching, with dual meters. I’m still using it for other radios with no problem. And yes, I did check the voltage reading on the K3/100 and it did reduce severely under any load, even QRP. That’s a strange quirk in the equipment but I think that’s it.
>
> Jimmy Walker
> WA4ILO
> Macon, GA
>
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Jim Brown-10

Re: K3 - stuck at MCU LD we upgrading software

Every Astron supply I've opened has had the defect of failure to bond
the green wire to the chassis. The point of failure is paint between the
chassis and the mounting lug of the terminal strip where the green wire
is soldered. One of those supplies, which I still own as a backup, has
paint between the two "clam-shell" sections of the chassis that prevents
their making contact, thus defeating shielding.

Early Elecraft products had this problem, but newer ones do not. Those
building kits will remember paint-protecting tape that must be removed
at points where the sections of the chassis mate.

73, Jim K9YC

On Sun,1/29/2017 10:49 AM, George Thornton wrote:
> I took it apart today and found that although the connection between the power leads and the bolts was tight, the connection between the bolt and the housing of the power supply had worked a bit loose over the years. I took things apart and tightened the connection between the case and the bolt.

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KQ5S

Re: K3 - stuck at MCU LD we upgrading software

In reply to this post by George Thornton

Are folks hooking their radios directly to the power supply without a fuse
inline? I noted that the Elecraft supplied cable for my K3S did not
include a fuse.

73,
Tom - KQ5S

On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 12:49 PM, George Thornton <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> The history of my Astron 35 metered power supply is that it has been moved
> around a lot because I have brought it to Field Day for multiple years.
>
> I took it apart today and found that although the connection between the
> power leads and the bolts was tight, the connection between the bolt and
> the housing of the power supply had worked a bit loose over the years. I
> took things apart and tightened the connection between the case and the
> bolt.
>
> It is all back together and working fine. I also have a direct connection
> between the PS and the K3 using thicker wire.
>
> The K3 is working fine right now.
>
> In the past I suffered loss of transmit power although RX was fine. I
> don’t remember the error message but I think it was ERR DSP. With every
> failure reloading the firmware and calibrating power cleared it up. The
> information I had was that this error can be associated with erratic power
> supply issues.
>
>
>
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Don
> Wilhelm
> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 7:28 PM
> To: James Walker <[hidden email]>; N2TK, Tony <
> [hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - stuck at MCU LD we upgrading software
>
> Jimmy,
>
> You should see little voltage sag on transmit, especially at QRP levels.
>
> Compare the voltage directly at your power supply terminals between
> receive and transmit. If it stays up, then check your power cable to
> the K3 for adequate size wire and good connections. If you have a DC
> power distribution device like the RigRunner, remove the K3 from it and
> connect direct from the power supply to the K3.
>
> OTOH, if the voltage at the terminals droops during transmit, open the
> power supply cover and remove the bolt terminals - clean the solder lugs
> on the inside and the bolts, then reassemble making certain the bolts
> are tight. If those bolts turn even a little bit when tightening the
> external bolts, they are not tight. You must have tight connections at
> the power supply.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 1/28/2017 3:49 PM, James Walker wrote:
> > Yours is not the Astron power supply I was using. Mine was the 35A,
> transformer style, not switching, with dual meters. I’m still using it for
> other radios with no problem. And yes, I did check the voltage reading on
> the K3/100 and it did reduce severely under any load, even QRP. That’s a
> strange quirk in the equipment but I think that’s it.
> >
> > Jimmy Walker
> > WA4ILO
> > Macon, GA
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
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> thorntonmostullaw.com>
>
> ________________________________
> ______________________________________________________________
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KQ5S

Re: K3 - stuck at MCU LD we upgrading software

Thanks Ron. Not sure if my old Astron 35A has built in over-current
protection or not. I know it has the crowbar protection for over voltage.

Does the K3S have any kind of internal protection like a resettable fuse?

73,
Tom - KQ5S

On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 4:15 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote:

> That depends upon the power supply. My Astron has over-current protection
> that shuts it off in the event of a short. The output stays off until I
> cycle the power switch on the Astron, so I don't use any additional
> protection.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tom
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2017 1:58 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - stuck at MCU LD we upgrading software
>
> Are folks hooking their radios directly to the power supply without a fuse
> inline? I noted that the Elecraft supplied cable for my K3S did not
> include a fuse.
>
>
> 73,
> Tom - KQ5S
>
>

Don Wilhelm

Re: K3 - stuck at MCU LD we upgrading software

Tom,

The K3 and K3S 100 watt versions have a circuit breaker - that is the
round thing with the white center on the back panel of the KPA3.
The lower power circuits are protected by a resettable fuse. So the K3
is capable of protecting itself from overcurrent.

That being said, there is always the danger of a short or other fault in
the DC wiring that can cause excessive current in the power wire which
can spew molten metal around causing injury to anyone nearby or starting
fires.
IMHO, any power supply that does not have overcurrent protection should
have a fuse located near the power source - that is especially true of
batteries which can source an enormous amount of current.

That fuse near the power supply is not necessarily for protection of the
equipment, but rather it is for protection of your home and family.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/29/2017 5:31 PM, Tom wrote:
> Thanks Ron. Not sure if my old Astron 35A has built in over-current
> protection or not. I know it has the crowbar protection for over voltage.
>
> Does the K3S have any kind of internal protection like a resettable fuse?
>
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KQ5S

Re: K3 - stuck at MCU LD we upgrading software

Thanks Don. I though the K3S was protected but I did a quick search of the
manual for fuse and only found a reference to fusing both positive and
negative cables if using a battery.

73,
Tom - KQ5S

On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 4:47 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Tom,
>
> The K3 and K3S 100 watt versions have a circuit breaker - that is the
> round thing with the white center on the back panel of the KPA3.
> The lower power circuits are protected by a resettable fuse. So the K3 is
> capable of protecting itself from overcurrent.
>
> That being said, there is always the danger of a short or other fault in
> the DC wiring that can cause excessive current in the power wire which can
> spew molten metal around causing injury to anyone nearby or starting fires.
> IMHO, any power supply that does not have overcurrent protection should
> have a fuse located near the power source - that is especially true of
> batteries which can source an enormous amount of current.
>
> That fuse near the power supply is not necessarily for protection of the
> equipment, but rather it is for protection of your home and family.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 1/29/2017 5:31 PM, Tom wrote:
>
>> Thanks Ron. Not sure if my old Astron 35A has built in over-current
>> protection or not. I know it has the crowbar protection for over voltage.
>>
>> Does the K3S have any kind of internal protection like a resettable fuse?
>>
>>

Don Wilhelm

Re: K3 - stuck at MCU LD we upgrading software

Tom,

The size of the fuse at the power supply end should be consistent with
the size of the wire. For #10 wire, fuse at 30 amps, for #12 wire, fuse
at 20 amps. Note that this recommendation has nothing to do with the
current draw of the equipment, only with the wire size.
I fuse #16 wire at 10 amps and #18 at 7 or 5 amps both in the shack and
at the workbench. I do not use anything smaller than #18 wire on power
cables.

As I indicated, this has nothing to do with the current draw and
protection of the connected equipment - it is only a consideration for
the wire size.

If you compare it to household wiring and circuit breakers in your
electrical panel, you will see a parallel. #10 wire, use a 30 amp
breaker, #12 wire, use a 20 amp breaker, #14 wire use a 15 amp breaker.
It is the same thing at DC - fuse at the power source for the wire size.
If the equipment needs a smaller fuse than that afforded by the fuse at
the power supply, add an additional fuse or circuit breaker at the
equipment end. It is common to see equipment using AC power lines
protected by a fuse in the equipment cabinet, and it will be at a lesser
rating than the rating of the wiring - that latter fuse is to protect
the equipment, not the wiring - two different "animals" - safety to home
and personnel vs. protection for the equipment.

As far as fusing both the positive and negative leads, that is
controversial and depends on how the negative is wired. It goes back to
mobile installations where if the negative is connected directly to the
battery and a fault in the vehicle grounding system should fail, then
the fuse in the negative will protect the equipment.
However, the better solution is to connect the mobile radio negative
solidly to the chassis (near the radio) and fuse only the positive side.
Ask any professional installer of mobile radios how it should be done,
and they generally agree that the negative should connect to the chassis
near the radio, and not be routed all the way to the battery negative
(where it would need a fuse).

73,
Don W3FPR

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/29/2017 6:03 PM, Tom wrote:
> Thanks Don. I though the K3S was protected but I did a quick search of the
> manual for fuse and only found a reference to fusing both positive and
> negative cables if using a battery.
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Nr4c

Re: K3 - stuck at MCU LD we upgrading software

In reply to this post by James Walker

Hate to bring this up, but..... Check the Power Pole connectors on K3 power cable. They should be pushed in tightly so that the contact lip curls over the spring.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Jan 29, 2017, at 9:57 AM, James Walker <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I tried the direct wiring fix first. It didn’t change anything. And the voltage drop was radical. It would go down sometimes from 13 to 11 volts. The voltage drop was not indicated on the power supply volt meter. And remember, the big Astron power supply works fine with my IC-7300 and IC-746 off the Rig Runner strip. Maybe those rigs work better with the voltage variation. But something is going on here with either the power supple or the K3. I paid about $200 for the big power supply back in the 90’s. I think the little Astron supply (switching type) was less than $100. Maybe the difference is between transformers and switching technology. Anyway, my nightmare is over with a happy ending.
>
> Jimmy
>
> On Jan 28, 2017, at 10:27 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> Compare the voltage directly at your power supply terminals between receive and transmit. If it stays up, then check your power cable to the K3 for adequate size wire and good connections. If you have a DC power distribution device like the RigRunner, remove the K3 from it and connect direct from the power supply to the K3.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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Ramon Tristani-2

Re: K3 - stuck at MCU LD we upgrading software

Banned User

And don't forget to use the pin to secure the connector in place. Some people said it was not possible but I did it and it works just fine.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 29, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Nr4c <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hate to bring this up, but..... Check the Power Pole connectors on K3 power cable. They should be pushed in tightly so that the contact lip curls over the spring.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill
>
>
>> On Jan 29, 2017, at 9:57 AM, James Walker <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I tried the direct wiring fix first. It didn’t change anything. And the voltage drop was radical. It would go down sometimes from 13 to 11 volts. The voltage drop was not indicated on the power supply volt meter. And remember, the big Astron power supply works fine with my IC-7300 and IC-746 off the Rig Runner strip. Maybe those rigs work better with the voltage variation. But something is going on here with either the power supple or the K3. I paid about $200 for the big power supply back in the 90’s. I think the little Astron supply (switching type) was less than $100. Maybe the difference is between transformers and switching technology. Anyway, my nightmare is over with a happy ending.
>>
>> Jimmy
>>
>> On Jan 28, 2017, at 10:27 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>> Compare the voltage directly at your power supply terminals between receive and transmit. If it stays up, then check your power cable to the K3 for adequate size wire and good connections. If you have a DC power distribution device like the RigRunner, remove the K3 from it and connect direct from the power supply to the K3.
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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KQ5S

Re: K3 - stuck at MCU LD we upgrading software

In reply to this post by KQ5S

Thanks Ron.

73,
Tom - KQ5S

On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 8:48 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yes. There is an automatic resetting fuse in the main circuits and a
> circuit
> breaker for the amp that is reset with a button on the back of the K3S.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tom
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2017 2:31 PM
> To: Ron D'Eau Claire
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - stuck at MCU LD we upgrading software
>
> Thanks Ron. Not sure if my old Astron 35A has built in over-current
> protection or not. I know it has the crowbar protection for over voltage.
>
> Does the K3S have any kind of internal protection like a resettable fuse?
>
>
>
> 73,
> Tom - KQ5S
>
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 4:15 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > That depends upon the power supply. My Astron has over-current
> > protection that shuts it off in the event of a short. The output stays
> > off until I cycle the power switch on the Astron, so I don't use any
> > additional protection.
> >
> > 73, Ron AC7AC
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> > Tom
> > Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2017 1:58 PM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - stuck at MCU LD we upgrading software
> >
> > Are folks hooking their radios directly to the power supply without a
> > fuse inline? I noted that the Elecraft supplied cable for my K3S did
> > not include a fuse.
> >
> >
> > 73,
> > Tom - KQ5S
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>
>