Elecraft

K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

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Steve Ellington

Re: K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

Physical properties aside, USB's advantage is speed. We are running the K3's
serial port at 38kb while USB can run 400,000kb....Just a tad faster and
that allows audio and video transfer. True, USB jacks are flimbsey little
things, if it were mounted on an option board like the current RS232 is, it
could be replaced without a lot of hassle. Sooner or later, ham rigs will
either be the only thing around with RS232 or they will change over to USB
like the rest of the world.
Steve Ellington
[hidden email]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Christensen" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

>>> ....can't understand why the K3 didn't
>>> come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port.
>
> I can't speak on behalf of Elecraft but for the majority of us, it's a
> simple matter to convert from serial to USB and more difficult to convert
> in
> the opposite direction.
>
> USB ports are not nearly as mechanically secure as the DB-9 connector. An
> accidental strike of the USB plug in the lateral direction can easily
> cause
> damage the mating USB socket inside the rig (like a K3 used portable).
> I've
> broken a couple USB ports on my laptop PCs as a result of inadvertent
> strikes.
>
> Myself, I would like to see the beginnings of an optical S/PDIF standard
> that incorporates audio + data/rig control.
>
> Paul, W9AC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

In reply to this post by Brendan Minish

> Icom's USB (if it's similar to that on my IC-R1500 in any
> case) is simply serial CI-V (*)done over USB with a
> proprietary USB sound-card on top, If Icom's drivers work for
> you great, if you run Linux / mac etc you may be out of luck..

The USB CI-V/Audio support in the IC-7200 and 7600 is nothing
more than an off the shelf USB HUB ic, a USB Audio CODEC and
a no-name USB UART. The USB CI-V support is very dependent
on the quality of the OEM driver for the USB UART. I have not
been able to determine if drivers are available for Macintosh
or LINUX systems or whether certified drivers are available
for Windows XP and Vista.

For those who would want USB support for the K3 ... the cost
and red tape required for Windows Certification are very
significant for a small company.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Brendan Minish
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 2:29 PM
> To: Dan Copeland
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
>
>
> On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 13:11 -0500, Dan Copeland wrote:
> > I still for the life of me can't understand why the K3 didn't Come
> > with a USB port instead of the outdated com port.
>
> I am so glad it doesn't have USB. I have a drawer full of USB
> devices that are now unusable because their vendors stopped
> supporting them with drivers and/or did not freely publish
> the information required for 3rd parties to write drivers
>
> For the K3 you can get a USB-Serial cable for a few Dollars
> on ebay, job done. If in a few years you find your version of
> windows/mac/linux no longer supports this cable then buy a
> new one for a couple of bucks. no need to buy a new radio in
> this case!
>
> Many devices that are 'USB' are really serial (perhaps at TLL
> levels) and the USB bit is simply a USB to Serial adapter chip
>
> Icom's USB (if it's similar to that on my IC-R1500 in any
> case) is simply serial CI-V (*)done over USB with a
> proprietary USB sound-card on top, If Icom's drivers work for
> you great, if you run Linux / mac etc you may be out of luck..
>
> (*) complete with no proper support for Detecting Split
> operation for logging purposes
>
> In a few years time when Icom decide I should have a new
> radio then USB driver support for the R1500 will probably cease..
>
> RS232 is not 'outdated' it's a reliable standard that has
> been around a while. USB may be a standard but the software
> layer (drivers) needed to make USB stuff actually do anything
> is anything but 'standard' and this is where the
> manufacturers have the customer by the 'proverbials'
>
> USB, the Un-compatible Serial Bus ..
>
>
> > That is
> > One reason I have not bought one yet. Maybe in a future mod
> > They will address this.
>
> this is a mod I will not be buying ..
>
>
> > Dan N0DT
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [hidden email]
> > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Steve Ellington
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 12:56 PM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
> >
> > No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on
> the 7600
> > that is nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from
> the pc with
> > only one USB cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out.
> > The sound card connection is no longer needed. Several users are
> > running MixW in this fashion.
> >
>
> --
> 73
> Brendan EI6IZ
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

In reply to this post by Steve Ellington

> No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on
> the 7600 that is nice, the USB port. You can run digital
> modes from the pc with only one USB cable which handles
> serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card connection
> is no longer needed.

You can accomplish the same thing with the K3 and microHAM
USB Interface III ... in Windows, OS-X or LINUX ... with far
better receiver performance and save $1000.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Steve Ellington
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:56 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
>
>
> No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on
> the 7600 that is nice, the USB port. You can run digital
> modes from the pc with only one USB cable which handles
> serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card connection
> is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this fashion.
>
> Steve Ellington
> [hidden email]
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave G4AON" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
>
>
> > The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's
> RSGB RadCom.
> > The receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing
> > does the 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was
> > noise limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by
> using the 15
> > KHz roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3
> KHz roofing
> > filters.
> >
> > The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web
> > site. Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy.
> >
> > 73 Dave, G4AON
> > =========================
> > Universal radio lists the radio as having
> > "104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point ".
> >
> > Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list.
> >
> > However, I do not see any mention of "diversity receive".
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Johnny Siu

Re: K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

In reply to this post by Dave, G4AON

Hello Gentleman,

It is interested in reading all your comments. Just look at another side of a coin. If you post the same question "K3 vs IC7600" in the mail reflector of IC7600, perhaps you will get another set of answers.

73

Johnny Siu VR2XMC

--- 2009年6月17日星期三，DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL <[hidden email]> 寫道﹕

寄件人: DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL <[hidden email]>
主題: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
收件人: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
日期: 2009年6月17日,星期三,上午1:58

Yeah...at what spacing?

>From the ARRL pages, for the IC7800 (I don't think anyone is saying
teh 7600 is better than the 7800, but I could be wrong)

At 2kc, 3rd order dynamic range for 7800 =86 db; for the K3=103db

At 2kc, 3rd order intercept for 7800 = 21 dbm; for the K3=28dbm

At 20kc spacing, things may change (I didn't bother to look), but who
cares...if the band is dead (few signals), these numbers won't matter
anyway. If the band is hopping (crowded), 20kc spacking specs are
meaningless (to me)....it's the nearby signals that will get your
front end.

de Doug KR2Q
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N2TK

Re: K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

Sounds like a good plan to put the question on the 7600 reflector.

73,
N2TK, Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Johnny Siu
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 6:58 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

Hello Gentleman,

It is interested in reading all your comments. Just look at another side of a coin. If you post the same question "K3 vs IC7600" in the mail reflector of IC7600, perhaps you will get another set of answers.

73

Johnny Siu VR2XMC

--- 2009年6月17日星期三，DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL <[hidden email]> 寫道﹕

寄件人: DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL <[hidden email]>
主題: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
收件人: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
日期: 2009年6月17日,星期三,上午1:58

Yeah...at what spacing?

>From the ARRL pages, for the IC7800 (I don't think anyone is saying
teh 7600 is better than the 7800, but I could be wrong)

At 2kc, 3rd order dynamic range for 7800 =86 db; for the K3=103db

At 2kc, 3rd order intercept for 7800 = 21 dbm; for the K3=28dbm

At 20kc spacing, things may change (I didn't bother to look), but who
cares...if the band is dead (few signals), these numbers won't matter
anyway. If the band is hopping (crowded), 20kc spacking specs are
meaningless (to me)....it's the nearby signals that will get your
front end.

de Doug KR2Q
______________________________________________________________

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n7ws

Re: K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

In reply to this post by Dave, G4AON

First let me say that I once owned and Icom IC-211. It was such a POS (using solder bridges between IC pins instead of circuit traces for example) that I gave it to a friend who also had one. I often said that it was a measure of his character that he accepted the "gift" and we still remained friends. So I am no friend of, or apologist for Icom.

That said, why would the second mixer in the Icom be any more susceptible to overload than the second mixer in the K3? (Disregard the other evidence that the Icom 3 KHz filter isn't really 3 KHz.)

Wes N7WS

--- On Tue, 6/16/09, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
To: "HowardZ" <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 10:27 AM

Unlikely since thy use a high first IF with their narrowest roofing
filter at 3 kHz. signals inside that filter will overload the first
mixer and subsequent stages, well before any later crystal or DSP
filtering can do any good.

73, Eric WA6HHQ

HowardZ wrote:
> Universal radio lists the radio as having
> "104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point ".
>
> Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list.
>
> However, I do not see any mention of "diversity receive".
>
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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

Administrator

Hi Wes,

The difference is that we can go to as low as 200 Hz for our first IF
filter ahead of the 2nd mixer, limiting what it sees for strong off
frequency signals. The 7600 can only get down to 3 kHz (measured by
Sherwood closer to 5 kHz) before its 2nd mixer, which is as wide as a
barn door with respect to interfering signals. The closer to the front
end of a radio you can get your narrowest filter, the better your
overall strong signal dynamic range.

73, Eric WA6HHQ
Elecraft

Wes Stewart wrote:

> First let me say that I once owned and Icom IC-211. It was such a POS (using solder bridges between IC pins instead of circuit traces for example) that I gave it to a friend who also had one. I often said that it was a measure of his character that he accepted the "gift" and we still remained friends. So I am no friend of, or apologist for Icom.
>
> That said, why would the second mixer in the Icom be any more susceptible to overload than the second mixer in the K3? (Disregard the other evidence that the Icom 3 KHz filter isn't really 3 KHz.)
>
> Wes N7WS
>
> --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> From: Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
> To: "HowardZ" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 10:27 AM
>
> Unlikely since thy use a high first IF with their narrowest roofing
> filter at 3 kHz. signals inside that filter will overload the first
> mixer and subsequent stages, well before any later crystal or DSP
> filtering can do any good.
>
> 73, Eric WA6HHQ
>
>
> HowardZ wrote:
>
>> Universal radio lists the radio as having
>> "104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point ".
>>
>> Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list.
>>
>> However, I do not see any mention of "diversity receive".
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
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>

Guy, K2AV

Re: K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

In reply to this post by P.B. Christensen

>>> ....can't understand why the K3 didn't
>>> come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port.

You don't want a USB port if you want to do anything circuit wise external
to the K3 using CTS/DTR leads not used for serial signal. If the ONLY thing
you EVER want to do with the serial port is talk to your PC, then USB will
work.

If the Elecraft guys want to do something serious and high speed, then let
them use the Ethernet jack. I'd like to see an ethernet interface module
option so I can directly remote to it from a computer. Or an 811g wireless
module for the same purpose.

73, Guy.

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chen dave

Re: K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

In reply to this post by Dave, G4AON

Hello all,

Two weeks ago, in my friend's shack I compared K3,IC7700,IC7800(by ear
ONLY), since there are no major contest in that day, so I can't say
anything about "dynamic range " or something like that.
IMHO, ic7700's DSP is best, 7800 DSP also better than K3. [A/B compare
NR NB and DSP filter function].
K3 need to change in K4(my opinion):
1, 13.8V connector, after mine thaw during the 2008 cqww contest, I have
replaced it with connector was use in Motorola transmitter.
2, Shield design.
3, DSP function improvement.
4, true FSK control use RS232 port(not ACC port).

By the way, overall I like the K3 very much.

David/BA4RF

On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Dave G4AON <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There's an interesting IC-7600 review on eHam where "RFEXPERT" is
> comparing his new IC-7600 with his K3.
>
> http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/7775
>
> 73 Dave, G4AON
> K3/100 #80
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Johnny Siu

Re: K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

In reply to this post by Dave, G4AON

Hello David,

I also have all these 3 rigs on my shack and doing comparison everyday. Your observation does not surprise me. However, I would like to mention that I am a 99% voice mode operator.

73

Johnny Siu VR2XMC

--- 2009年6月17日星期三，chen dave <[hidden email]> 寫道﹕

寄件人: chen dave <[hidden email]>
主題: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
收件人: "Dave G4AON" <[hidden email]>
副本(CC): [hidden email]
日期: 2009年6月17日,星期三,上午9:36

Hello all,

Two weeks ago, in my friend's shack I compared K3,IC7700,IC7800(by ear
ONLY), since there are no major contest in that day, so I can't say
anything about "dynamic range " or something like that.
IMHO, ic7700's DSP is best, 7800 DSP also better than K3. [A/B compare
NR NB and DSP filter function].
K3 need to change in K4(my opinion):
1, 13.8V connector, after mine thaw during the 2008 cqww contest, I have
replaced it with connector was use in Motorola transmitter.
2, Shield design.
3, DSP function improvement.
4, true FSK control use RS232 port(not ACC port).

By the way, overall I like the K3 very much.

David/BA4RF

On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Dave G4AON <[hidden email]> wrote:

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Igor Sokolov-2

Re: K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

In reply to this post by Steve Ellington

Hi Steve,
The audio from the rig is analog. I have just said there is one connection
to the computer but sure there are several lines going from Microkeyer to
the Radio (sound, ptt,cw,cat). Still there are other advantages like the
ability to create Y connection to the CAT of the trx similar to LP-bridge.

73, Igor UA9CDC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ellington" <[hidden email]>
To: "Igor Sokolov" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

> Errr...How do U get the audio from the rig to that microhammicrokeyertwo
> Igor om?
> Steve Ellington
> [hidden email]
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Igor Sokolov" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Steve Ellington" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 2:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
>
>
>> That feature can be had on almost any radio, K3 included. I have got
>> Microham MicrokeyerII and now I can do with just one USB connection to
>> computer. That includes audio, CAT, PTT,CW,FSK. In addition Microkeyer
>> has winkey built in and PTT sequencer to deal with external RX and TX
>> amps.
>>
>> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>>
>>> No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600
>>> that is
>>> nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one
>>> USB
>>> cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card
>>> connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this
>>> fashion.
>>>
>>> Steve Ellington
>>> [hidden email]
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Dave G4AON" <[hidden email]>
>>> To: <[hidden email]>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
>>>
>>>
>>>> The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom.
>>>> The
>>>> receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does
>>>> the
>>>> 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise
>>>> limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz
>>>> roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing
>>>> filters.
>>>>
>>>> The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web
>>>> site.
>>>> Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy.
>>>>
>>>> 73 Dave, G4AON
>>>> =========================
>>>> Universal radio lists the radio as having
>>>> "104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point ".
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list.
>>>>
>>>> However, I do not see any mention of "diversity receive".
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>

Julian, G4ILO

Re: K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV

Guy, K2AV wrote

If the Elecraft guys want to do something serious and high speed, then let
them use the Ethernet jack. I'd like to see an ethernet interface module
option so I can directly remote to it from a computer. Or an 811g wireless
module for the same purpose.

I can see the uses of that, but why would it have to be an integrated option and why would it have to come from Elecraft?

I think something like this could be developed as a small standalone box using a board that runs embedded Linux. It would have Ethernet on one side running Apache for the web interface, and serial plus audio connections on the other. By using Hamlib it could be configured to work with ANY radio, which would greatly increase the potential market size therefore reducing the cost for would-be buyers.

No, I'm not interested in developing it. But I'm sure it's possible.

Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

dj7mgq

Re: K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

> I think something like this could be developed as a small standalone box
> using a board that runs embedded Linux. It would have Ethernet on one side
> running Apache for the web interface, and serial plus audio connections on
> the other.

You might want to take a look at <http://www.ethernut.de/>. I have no
connection with them, but it does look interesting: "Ethernut is an
Open Source Hardware and Software Project for building tiny Embedded
Ethernet Devices."

vy 73 de toby

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Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy

Re: K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

In reply to this post by Dave, G4AON

Doug,

>From a European perspective, and this is a personal opinion, while the 3rd
Order dynamic range performance at 2kHz is certainly very important, it is
the Spurious Free 3rd Order dynamic range at spacings less than the IF
bandwidth that really matters, i.e. both test signals INSIDE the IF
passband. Over here, working a weak DX station on say 40m, who is operating
"No-Split" and who is covered by non-stop callers with strong signals, does
require good in-passband performance to help the filter between the ears.
Tx phase noise and clicks have been secondary issues.

It is an unfortunate fact that while receiver A's IMDDR3 performance might
be quoted as being better than receiver B's at 2kHz spacing (outside of the
passband), receiver B might be the better performer at spacings inside the
passband, and more useful, because it has a better IF design than A's. The
problem of course is that the reviews seldom include in-passband IMDDR3
performance, thus do not expose poor/ lousy IF systems.

I understand that the present bar for in-passband Spurious Free 3rd Order
dynamic range is 120db, set in 2007, but not on the market.

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD

DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 6:58 PM

> Yeah...at what spacing?
>
>>From the ARRL pages, for the IC7800 (I don't think anyone is saying
>> teh 7600 is better than the 7800, but I could be wrong)
>
> At 2kc, 3rd order dynamic range for 7800 =86 db; for the K3=103db
>
> At 2kc, 3rd order intercept for 7800 = 21 dbm; for the K3=28dbm
>
> At 20kc spacing, things may change (I didn't bother to look), but who
> cares...if the band is dead (few signals), these numbers won't matter
> anyway. If the band is hopping (crowded), 20kc spacking specs are
> meaningless (to me)....it's the nearby signals that will get your
> front end.
>
> de Doug KR2Q

dj7mgq

Re: K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

> I understand that the present bar for in-passband Spurious Free 3rd
> Order dynamic range is 120db, set in 2007, but not on the market.

You are, I think, referring to
<http://www.xs4all.nl/~martein/pa3ake/hmode/> and the work done by
CDG2000 group. Imho, Martein's site is really worth reading.

Interestingly "SFDR (Spurious Free Dynamic Range) 112 dB" and "BDR
(Blocking Dynamic Range) 125 dB (CW, 500 Hz BW)" are claimed for the
QS1R, which has almost no analogue filtering
<http://www.srl-llc.com/files/qs1r_revd_specs.pdf>.

vy 73 de toby

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Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy

Re: K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

Toby <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You are, I think, referring to
> <http://www.xs4all.nl/~martein/pa3ake/hmode/> and the work done by
> CDG2000 group. Imho, Martein's site is really worth reading.

Hi Toby,

Yes, followed by a large spurious free IMDDR3 IF system whose noise figure
is 2db.

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD

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P.B. Christensen

Re: K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

In reply to this post by Johnny Siu

> Two weeks ago, in my friend's shack I compared K3,IC7700,IC7800(by ear
> ONLY), since there are no major contest in that day, so I can't say
> anything about "dynamic range " or something like that.
> IMHO, ic7700's DSP is best, 7800 DSP also better than K3. [A/B compare
> NR NB and DSP filter function].

I also own all three ('7700/'7800/K3) and I've been comparing the three rigs
for the past year. Not one of them really stands out against the other when
comparing the NR function in SSB, nor CW modes. In my experience, the two
radios with the best NR function are the Kenwood TS-480 (CW) and the Ten Tec
Omni Six (SSB).

On the TS-480, Kenwood developed a DSP CW peaking filter in the NR2 position
that actually seems to extract CW out from under the noise. Engaging that
function has often made the difference between copy and no-copy. I cannot
say the same for any other radio. Likewise, the Omni Six NR function
somehow manages to peak the SSB audio passband when engaged and never did I
hear an audio attenuating effect as I do with the '7700 and '7800 -- even
under weak signal conditions. The two Icoms seem particularly vulnerable to
attenuation as the NR function is increased and I find their NR function to
be nearly useless unless signal strength is strong.

Paul, W9AC

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Julius Fazekas n2wn

Re: K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

In reply to this post by Igor Sokolov-2

I picked up a microham USB Interface II this past weekend. It has a cable for a FT1000. I would assume all that needs to be done to make this work with a K3 is provide the appropriate connector adapters (versus spending $65+ for the K3 cable).

Has anyone done this? Any caveats?

Thanks,
Julius

Igor Sokolov-2 wrote

That feature can be had on almost any radio, K3 included. I have got
Microham MicrokeyerII and now I can do with just one USB connection to
computer. That includes audio, CAT, PTT,CW,FSK. In addition Microkeyer has
winkey built in and PTT sequencer to deal with external RX and TX amps.

73, Igor UA9CDC

> No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that
> is
> nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one
> USB
> cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card
> connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this
> fashion.
>
> Steve Ellington
> N4LQ@carolina.rr.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave G4AON" <elecraft@astromag.co.uk>
> To: <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
>
>
>> The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. The
>> receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does the
>> 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise
>> limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz
>> roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing
>> filters.
>>
>> The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web site.
>> Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy.
>>
>> 73 Dave, G4AON
>> =========================
>> Universal radio lists the radio as having
>> "104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point ".
>>
>> Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list.
>>
>> However, I do not see any mention of "diversity receive".
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>>
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>
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Julius Fazekas
N2WN

Tennessee Contest Group
http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html

Tennessee QSO Party
http://www.tnqp.org/

Elecraft K2 #4455
Elecraft K3/100 #366
Elecraft K3/100

Greg - AB7R

Re: K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

In reply to this post by Dave, G4AON

Hi Julius!

Best thing to do is to go to the MicroHam website and compare the two wiring
diagrams for the two cables. When I modified an Orion cable for the K3 I had to
change some jumper wires on the inside of the DB37 assembly as well as a few other
changes. It's not just the connectors.

-------------------------
73,
Greg - AB7R
Whidbey Island WA
NA-065

On Wed Jun 17 7:24 , Julius Fazekas n2wn sent:

>
>I picked up a microham USB Interface II this past weekend. It has a cable for
>a FT1000. I would assume all that needs to be done to make this work with a
>K3 is provide the appropriate connector adapters (versus spending $65+ for
>the K3 cable).
>
>Has anyone done this? Any caveats?
>
>Thanks,
>Julius
>
>
>Igor Sokolov-2 wrote:
>>
>> That feature can be had on almost any radio, K3 included. I have got
>> Microham MicrokeyerII and now I can do with just one USB connection to
>> computer. That includes audio, CAT, PTT,CW,FSK. In addition Microkeyer has
>> winkey built in and PTT sequencer to deal with external RX and TX amps.
>>
>> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>>
>>> No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that
>>> is
>>> nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one
>>> USB
>>> cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card
>>> connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this
>>> fashion.
>>>
>>> Steve Ellington
>>> [hidden email]
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Dave G4AON" [hidden email]>
>>> To: [hidden email]>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
>>>
>>>
>>>> The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. The
>>>> receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does the
>>>> 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise
>>>> limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz
>>>> roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing
>>>> filters.
>>>>
>>>> The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web site.
>>>> Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy.
>>>>
>>>> 73 Dave, G4AON
>>>> =========================
>>>> Universal radio lists the radio as having
>>>> "104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point ".
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list.
>>>>
>>>> However, I do not see any mention of "diversity receive".
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: [hidden email]','','','')">[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: [hidden email]','','','')">[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: [hidden email]','','','')">[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
>
>
>-----
>Julius Fazekas
>N2WN
>
>Tennessee Contest Group
>http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html
>
>Tennessee QSO Party
>http://www.tnqp.org/
>
>Elecraft K2/100 #4455
>Elecraft K3/100 #366
>Elecraft K3 #1875
>--
>View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-vs.-Icom-IC-7600-

tp2588586p3093119.html

>Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>______________________________________________________________
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Julius Fazekas n2wn

Re: K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

Hi Greg,

Thanks! I looked on their site and didn't see the link to the wiring diagrams. Will look closer this time. Figured I'd try it out, although I'm happy with my current interfaces.

hope you're doing well!

73,
Julius

Gregory Fischer wrote

Hi Julius!

Best thing to do is to go to the MicroHam website and compare the two wiring
diagrams for the two cables. When I modified an Orion cable for the K3 I had to
change some jumper wires on the inside of the DB37 assembly as well as a few other
changes. It's not just the connectors.

-------------------------
73,
Greg - AB7R
Whidbey Island WA
NA-065

On Wed Jun 17 7:24 , Julius Fazekas n2wn sent:

>
>I picked up a microham USB Interface II this past weekend. It has a cable for
>a FT1000. I would assume all that needs to be done to make this work with a
>K3 is provide the appropriate connector adapters (versus spending $65+ for
>the K3 cable).
>
>Has anyone done this? Any caveats?
>
>Thanks,
>Julius
>
>
>Igor Sokolov-2 wrote:
>>
>> That feature can be had on almost any radio, K3 included. I have got
>> Microham MicrokeyerII and now I can do with just one USB connection to
>> computer. That includes audio, CAT, PTT,CW,FSK. In addition Microkeyer has
>> winkey built in and PTT sequencer to deal with external RX and TX amps.
>>
>> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>>
>>> No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that
>>> is
>>> nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one
>>> USB
>>> cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card
>>> connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this
>>> fashion.
>>>
>>> Steve Ellington
>>> N4LQ@carolina.rr.com
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Dave G4AON" elecraft@astromag.co.uk>
>>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
>>>
>>>
>>>> The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. The
>>>> receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does the
>>>> 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise
>>>> limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz
>>>> roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing
>>>> filters.
>>>>
>>>> The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web site.
>>>> Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy.
>>>>
>>>> 73 Dave, G4AON
>>>> =========================
>>>> Universal radio lists the radio as having
>>>> "104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point ".
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list.
>>>>
>>>> However, I do not see any mention of "diversity receive".
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net','','','')">Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net','','','')">Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
>
>
>-----
>Julius Fazekas
>N2WN
>
>Tennessee Contest Group
>http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html
>
>Tennessee QSO Party
>http://www.tnqp.org/
>
>Elecraft K2/100 #4455
>Elecraft K3/100 #366
>Elecraft K3 #1875
>--
>View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-vs.-Icom-IC-7600-
tp2588586p3093119.html
>Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>______________________________________________________________
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http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html

Tennessee QSO Party
http://www.tnqp.org/

Elecraft K2 #4455
Elecraft K3/100 #366
Elecraft K3/100

123