K3EXREF Query
Locked
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I was wondering if there is any kind of "sensibility" check done on the
input reference? For example, I've been fooling around with a double oven controlled XO. Starting from cold it is > 200Hz off. It takes ten minutes or so to be within 10 Hz. It gets into the tenths of Hz accuracy region in another 10 minutes. Clearly one would not want the K3EXREF to lock to this oscillator during the first 10 minutes or so. 73 de Brian/K3KO ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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I have not seen any replies to this, Brian.
As I see it, the only way out is to go into REF CAL from the Config menu and then press 2 to disable XREF until the frequency standard has locked. Like you, I have found that if XREF is enabled when the K3 is switched on, the K3 drifts unacceptably for 15 minutes until the frequency standard has settled down. 73 de David G4DMP In a recent message, Brian <[hidden email]> writes >I was wondering if there is any kind of "sensibility" check done on the >input reference? > >For example, I've been fooling around with a double oven controlled XO. > >Starting from cold it is > 200Hz off. It takes ten minutes or so to be >within 10 Hz. It gets into the tenths of Hz accuracy region in another >10 minutes. > >Clearly one would not want the K3EXREF to lock to this oscillator >during the first 10 minutes or so. > >73 de Brian/K3KO -- + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + | David M Pratt, Kippax, Leeds. | | Website: http://www.g4dmp.co.uk | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Why not just leave the frequency reference switched on. OK with a TCXO,
not so good with a Rubidium standard. Power consumption must be trivial compared with the normal domestic base load. Regards, Mike VP8NO On 14/10/2014 10:41, David G4DMP wrote: > I have not seen any replies to this, Brian. > > As I see it, the only way out is to go into REF CAL from the Config menu > and then press 2 to disable XREF until the frequency standard has > locked. > > Like you, I have found that if XREF is enabled when the K3 is switched > on, the K3 drifts unacceptably for 15 minutes until the frequency > standard has settled down. > > 73 de David G4DMP > > In a recent message, Brian <[hidden email]> writes >> I was wondering if there is any kind of "sensibility" check done on the >> input reference? >> >> For example, I've been fooling around with a double oven controlled XO. >> >> Starting from cold it is > 200Hz off. It takes ten minutes or so to be >> within 10 Hz. It gets into the tenths of Hz accuracy region in another >> 10 minutes. >> >> Clearly one would not want the K3EXREF to lock to this oscillator >> during the first 10 minutes or so. >> >> 73 de Brian/K3KO > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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About 10W for the MV89A double oven CXO, when run from a linear 12V
power supply. NOT trivial at today's prices for electricity in Great Britain. 73 de David G4DMP In a recent message, Mike Harris <[hidden email]> writes >Why not just leave the frequency reference switched on. OK with a >TCXO, not so good with a Rubidium standard. Power consumption must be >trivial compared with the normal domestic base load. -- + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + | David M Pratt, Kippax, Leeds. | | Website: http://www.g4dmp.co.uk | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Hi all.
I'm about to buy my first (used) K3. The only known issue with it is a small crack in the knob on the 2nd VFO, which should be easy enough to replace? I also have the serial number and I know its history. It was purchased in the UK as a kit and assembled by a local ham (now silent key). There's no microphone with it and no serial cable., but it does have a power lead and the 100W module. I'm assured that it's fully working with no known issues and I will be able to try-before-buy. Questions: How can I find out what year it was supplied, from the serial number. Is there any point in checking its current revision level, or should I just download the latest firmware and install it? Are there any known issues that I should especially look for? My preferred method of connection to a PC would be a USB cable. Is there a mod to allow USB direct to the K3, or is my perception of the manual correct and I need to use a USB to Serial cable? I presume that I will have to order a front panel microphone plug from Elecraft, in order to use one of my electret microphones? Thanks in advance. 73, Alan. G4GNX ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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On Tue,10/14/2014 9:34 AM, G4GNX wrote:
> Is there any point in checking its current revision level, or should I > just download the latest firmware and install it? Certainly download and install the latest firmware. The K3 Utility makes this quite user-friendly. > > Are there any known issues that I should especially look for? None I can think of. > > My preferred method of connection to a PC would be a USB cable. Is > there a mod to allow USB direct to the K3, No > or is my perception of the manual correct and I need to use a USB to > Serial cable? Yes. > I presume that I will have to order a front panel microphone plug from > Elecraft, in order to use one of my electret microphones? The mic connector is the common Foster 8-pin. Your existing mics can be rewired to mate. Many of us use a Yamaha CM500 boom mic headset, which comes with two 1/8-in male plugs, that we plug directly into the rear panel. This will mute the loudspeaker, but there is a menu setting to turn the speaker back on, and most of us assign this toggle to a soft button on the front panel. I use PF2, which is the long push of the XIT button. If the Yamaha headset is not available in the UK, I suspect that some similar product will be. The K3 is easily set up to sound great with a wide range of mics by using the TXEQ (graphic equalizer). That cracked knob is a very common issue, and is easily replaced. It needs a small hex (Allen) wrench. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Alan. G4GNX
> I'm about to buy my first (used) K3. The only known issue with it is a small crack in the knob on the 2nd VFO, which should be easy enough to replace?
Elecraft can replace your knob. > > I also have the serial number and I know its history. It was purchased in the UK as a kit and assembled by a local ham (now silent key). There's no microphone with it and no serial cable., but it does have a power lead and the 100W module. You can get both from Elecraft. In my opinion, buying a serial cable from Elecraft is easier than making one so that is what I do. > > How can I find out what year it was supplied, from the serial number. Send an e-mail to [hidden email] and include the serial number and they can tell you month and year of production. > > Is there any point in checking its current revision level, or should I just download the latest firmware and install it? Download and install latest firmware. > > Are there any known issues that I should especially look for? Depending on the serial number, there could be some hardware mods. You can check the mods list for the K3 on the Elecraft web site. (www.elecraft.com). > > My preferred method of connection to a PC would be a USB cable. Is there a mod to allow USB direct to the K3, or is my perception of the manual correct and I need to use a USB to Serial cable? Yes, your perception is correct. Must be serial to USB cable. > > I presume that I will have to order a front panel microphone plug from Elecraft, in order to use one of my electret microphones? Yes. 73, phil, K7PEH ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Alan. G4GNX
Having just purchased a K3/10 myself, I, too,
am interested in the answers to many of the questions. The seller included paperwork from W3FPR showing work performed by him. Mine is an "early" serial number. Seems it might be a difficult "configuration management" problem in general? There are hardware as well as software revisions. On Oct 14, 2014, at 9:34 AM, G4GNX wrote: > Questions: > > How can I find out what year it was supplied, from the serial number. > > Is there any point in checking its current revision level, or should I just download the latest firmware and install it? -- http://www.qsl.net/k7on/ NAQCC #0470 FP #2990 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by alsopb
David,
10w is 7.3 kwH/month. I would doubt that is a large expense, even in GB. Locally, its about 8 cents/kwH but in the bush it might be as high as a couple dollars since diesel fuel for the generators costs are huge (local diesel is $4.10). I know it would require conversion to liters and all that to come up with equivalent costs, but most households run hundreds of kwh/mo. Leave your TV plugged in but turned off and it still consumes about 50w. I have plug strip to remove ac from all my home TV systems when not in use. I leave power to the satellite receiver as it keeps the LNB powered and stable (Otherwise it takes 5-10 minutes to acquire signal and download data at startup). Simple solution is to leave the reference oscillator running continually. The K3 TCXO-3 will still drift on power up but this is compensated by EXREF every 4-seconds so frequency stability is held to better than 0.1 ppm. I measured +/- 2 Hz at 28-MHz on my K3. But if you watch the REF*CAL frequency you will note it incrementing from 49.380.000 to something like 49.380.080 in several minutes and then settle down near that value (indicating start-up drift has stopped). By not running your reference full time you will have to wait 15 to 30 minutes for it to fully warm up. I also have a rubidium but run it only for precise frequency calibration of the OCXO couple times per year. My mw counter internal TCXO is always in agreement with the Rb so I do not bother for routine frequency checks. The rb is only +/- 5 E-11 so not as good as GPS but good enough for my use. 73, Ed - KL7UW ------------- From: David G4DMP <[hidden email]> To: Mike Harris <[hidden email]> Cc: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3EXREF Query Message-ID: <[hidden email]> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii About 10W for the MV89A double oven CXO, when run from a linear 12V power supply. NOT trivial at today's prices for electricity in Great Britain. 73 de David G4DMP 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com "Kits made by KL7UW" Dubus Mag business: [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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On 10/14/2014 2:47 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:
> Leave your TV plugged in but turned off and it still consumes about 50w. You need to buy a new TV. The new ones are under a half-watt when plugged in but turned off. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Edward R Cole
Some years back, I was asked to do a study on the current consumption of a
particular style of beverage vending machine. The device had a water tank which was well insulated and the water was heated by a 3KW heater, to just below boiling point. The client wanted to know whether there would be a saving in consumed energy, if the heater was switched off overnight. Careful study re4vealed that it actually cost more to heat the water from cold than leave the heater connected permanently, controlled by its thermostat. There have been numerous papers published to this effect regarding well insulated domestic heating systems and although there is sometimes a benefit in reducing the overall temperature when the building is unoccupied, heating from cold as opposed to leaving the heating running under thermostatic control, costs more, even over a short period. The oven used by a stable crystal oscillator is a thermostatically controlled heating device. Nuff sed! :-) 73, Alan. G4GNX -----Original Message----- From: Edward R Cole Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2014 10:47 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3EXREF Query David, 10w is 7.3 kwH/month. I would doubt that is a large expense, even in GB. Locally, its about 8 cents/kwH but in the bush it might be as high as a couple dollars since diesel fuel for the generators costs are huge (local diesel is $4.10). I know it would require conversion to liters and all that to come up with equivalent costs, but most households run hundreds of kwh/mo. Leave your TV plugged in but turned off and it still consumes about 50w. I have plug strip to remove ac from all my home TV systems when not in use. I leave power to the satellite receiver as it keeps the LNB powered and stable (Otherwise it takes 5-10 minutes to acquire signal and download data at startup). Simple solution is to leave the reference oscillator running continually. The K3 TCXO-3 will still drift on power up but this is compensated by EXREF every 4-seconds so frequency stability is held to better than 0.1 ppm. I measured +/- 2 Hz at 28-MHz on my K3. But if you watch the REF*CAL frequency you will note it incrementing from 49.380.000 to something like 49.380.080 in several minutes and then settle down near that value (indicating start-up drift has stopped). By not running your reference full time you will have to wait 15 to 30 minutes for it to fully warm up. I also have a rubidium but run it only for precise frequency calibration of the OCXO couple times per year. My mw counter internal TCXO is always in agreement with the Rb so I do not bother for routine frequency checks. The rb is only +/- 5 E-11 so not as good as GPS but good enough for my use. 73, Ed - KL7UW ------------- From: David G4DMP <[hidden email]> To: Mike Harris <[hidden email]> Cc: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3EXREF Query Message-ID: <[hidden email]> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii About 10W for the MV89A double oven CXO, when run from a linear 12V power supply. NOT trivial at today's prices for electricity in Great Britain. 73 de David G4DMP ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Alan. G4GNX
Alan,
Lots of anwers have been given. One more: Usually those electrets have 3,5 mm connectors. Use the back panel as an entrance for the mic. No need for a front panel microphone plug. Actually, I never used one with my K3. I have had several mics connected to it, all with a 3,5mm connector. The K3 will accomodate electrets and dynamic mics. The Elecraft K3 is a very flexible machine, and most things are very well thought of. This is one of them. 73 Arie PA3A G4GNX schreef op 14-10-2014 18:34: > Hi all. > > <snip> > > I presume that I will have to order a front panel microphone plug from > Elecraft, in order to use one of my electret microphones? > > Thanks in advance. > > 73, > > Alan. G4GNX > <snip> ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Thanks for that information Arie. Very helpful. I will hold off ordering a
front panel plug until such time as I know that I really need one! :-) 73, Alan. G4GNX -----Original Message----- From: Arie Kleingeld PA3A Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 9:29 AM To: [hidden email] ; [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Purchasing K3 Alan, Lots of anwers have been given. One more: Usually those electrets have 3,5 mm connectors. Use the back panel as an entrance for the mic. No need for a front panel microphone plug. Actually, I never used one with my K3. I have had several mics connected to it, all with a 3,5mm connector. The K3 will accomodate electrets and dynamic mics. The Elecraft K3 is a very flexible machine, and most things are very well thought of. This is one of them. 73 Arie PA3A G4GNX schreef op 14-10-2014 18:34: > Hi all. > > <snip> > > I presume that I will have to order a front panel microphone plug from > Elecraft, in order to use one of my electret microphones? > > Thanks in advance. > > 73, > > Alan. G4GNX > <snip> ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Alan. G4GNX
Hi Alan,
Your analysis applies to the particular unit you analyzed. In the limit of perfect insulation, the conclusion will not be true. The water cannot get cold when the heaters are turned off. Thus zero energy required to restore the temperature. Clearly, the insulation of the "well insulated" water heater examined was not perfect. The relevant question becomes: How close to perfect insulation is the OCXO under discussion. It probably isn't even close. The case temperature gets hot rather quickly. So your conclusion may apply. 73 de Brian/K3KO P.S. This topic brings to mind an analysis of piping insulation on a cylindrical pipe done way back in college. Up to a point, adding more insulation helps. Beyond that point, adding insulation hurts. The surface area increase overwhelms the added insulation benefit. On 10/15/2014 00:29, G4GNX wrote: > Some years back, I was asked to do a study on the current consumption of > a particular style of beverage vending machine. The device had a water > tank which was well insulated and the water was heated by a 3KW heater, > to just below boiling point. The client wanted to know whether there > would be a saving in consumed energy, if the heater was switched off > overnight. Careful study re4vealed that it actually cost more to heat > the water from cold than leave the heater connected permanently, > controlled by its thermostat. > > There have been numerous papers published to this effect regarding well > insulated domestic heating systems and although there is sometimes a > benefit in reducing the overall temperature when the building is > unoccupied, heating from cold as opposed to leaving the heating running > under thermostatic control, costs more, even over a short period. > > The oven used by a stable crystal oscillator is a thermostatically > controlled heating device. Nuff sed! :-) > > 73, > > Alan. G4GNX > > -----Original Message----- From: Edward R Cole > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2014 10:47 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3EXREF Query > > David, > > 10w is 7.3 kwH/month. I would doubt that is a large expense, even in > GB. Locally, its about 8 cents/kwH but in the bush it might be as > high as a couple dollars since diesel fuel for the generators costs > are huge (local diesel is $4.10). I know it would require conversion > to liters and all that to come up with equivalent costs, but most > households run hundreds of kwh/mo. Leave your TV plugged in but > turned off and it still consumes about 50w. I have plug strip to > remove ac from all my home TV systems when not in use. I leave power > to the satellite receiver as it keeps the LNB powered and stable > (Otherwise it takes 5-10 minutes to acquire signal and download data > at startup). > > Simple solution is to leave the reference oscillator running > continually. The K3 TCXO-3 will still drift on power up but this is > compensated by EXREF every 4-seconds so frequency stability is held > to better than 0.1 ppm. I measured +/- 2 Hz at 28-MHz on my K3. But > if you watch the REF*CAL frequency you will note it incrementing from > 49.380.000 to something like 49.380.080 in several minutes and then > settle down near that value (indicating start-up drift has stopped). > > By not running your reference full time you will have to wait 15 to > 30 minutes for it to fully warm up. I also have a rubidium but run > it only for precise frequency calibration of the OCXO couple times > per year. My mw counter internal TCXO is always in agreement with > the Rb so I do not bother for routine frequency checks. The rb is > only +/- 5 E-11 so not as good as GPS but good enough for my use. > > 73, Ed - KL7UW > ------------- > From: David G4DMP <[hidden email]> > To: Mike Harris <[hidden email]> > Cc: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3EXREF Query > Message-ID: <[hidden email]> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii > > About 10W for the MV89A double oven CXO, when run from a linear 12V > power supply. NOT trivial at today's prices for electricity in Great > Britain. > > 73 de David G4DMP > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 4031/7885 - Release Date: 10/14/14 > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2
I use the back panel for the CM500 microphone. The Elecraft mic
is still attached to the front connector. I use it as the push-to-talk switch. Crude, but it works. Someday I will probably build/buy a foot switch. 73 Bill AE6JV On 10/15/14 at 1:29 AM, [hidden email] (Arie Kleingeld PA3A) wrote: >One more: Usually those electrets have 3,5 mm connectors. Use >the back panel as an entrance for the mic. No need for a front >panel microphone plug. >Actually, I never used one with my K3. I have had several mics >connected to it, all with a 3,5mm connector. The K3 will >accomodate electrets and dynamic mics. >The Elecraft K3 is a very flexible machine, and most things are >very well thought of. This is one of them. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | When it comes to the world | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | around us, is there any choice | 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com | but to explore? - Lisa Randall | Los Gatos, CA 95032 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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(Someday I will probably build/buy a foot switch. )
A suggestion: I use a straight key for a PTT switch. I attached a short cable with a connector to it so that I can easily change cables and press the key into service for CW. Dick, n0ce On 10/15/2014 8:37 AM, Bill Frantz wrote: > I use the back panel for the CM500 microphone. The Elecraft mic is > still attached to the front connector. I use it as the push-to-talk > switch. Crude, but it works. Someday I will probably build/buy a foot > switch. > > 73 Bill AE6JV > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Mike Harris-9
Typically (from my understanding) you leave the TCXO and GPSDO running all the timeI believe the the Rubidium standards have a lamp that wears out in time so some turnthem off to conserve the life of the lamp.
I leave the Oven in my Counter on all the time to keep it stable. I just purchased a GPSDO and plan to leave it on all the time. As for the expense....to me the expense is minimal. From: Mike Harris <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2014 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3EXREF Query Why not just leave the frequency reference switched on. OK with a TCXO, not so good with a Rubidium standard. Power consumption must be trivial compared with the normal domestic base load. Regards, Mike VP8NO On 14/10/2014 10:41, David G4DMP wrote: > I have not seen any replies to this, Brian. > > As I see it, the only way out is to go into REF CAL from the Config menu > and then press 2 to disable XREF until the frequency standard has > locked. > > Like you, I have found that if XREF is enabled when the K3 is switched > on, the K3 drifts unacceptably for 15 minutes until the frequency > standard has settled down. > > 73 de David G4DMP > > In a recent message, Brian <[hidden email]> writes >> I was wondering if there is any kind of "sensibility" check done on the >> input reference? >> >> For example, I've been fooling around with a double oven controlled XO. >> >> Starting from cold it is > 200Hz off. It takes ten minutes or so to be >> within 10 Hz. It gets into the tenths of Hz accuracy region in another >> 10 minutes. >> >> Clearly one would not want the K3EXREF to lock to this oscillator >> during the first 10 minutes or so. >> >> 73 de Brian/K3KO > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by alsopb
Lynn,
That was a guess and probably way too high. I have 3-year old 46-inch LED flat-screen. But also a home theater receiver rated to 125w audio and two DVD drives, a VCR and satellite receiver. So all the remote control power supplies do add up - to what? I do not know - haven't measured the total load. But since the TV is on from 5pm-10pm and off the rest of the day it seems there would be some savings by disconnecting the ac power. We have a six outlet strip which makes that simple. It does reduce fire hazard. On the other hand I keep my Astron station 12v supply on full time which supplies the OCXO, so I do not have any delay waiting for it to stabilize. I have my ham gear on more frequently than the TV. We make a pot of coffee (fresh ground) in the morning and turn-off the maker after it finishes. Coffee pot draws quite big load keeping water and coffee pot hot. And that only ruins the coffee. We just reheat a cup in the microwave when we want hot coffee. Do we save any power this way?? But the coffee tastes better :-) 73, Ed ----------- From: "Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT" <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3EXREF Query Message-ID: <[hidden email]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 10/14/2014 2:47 PM, Edward R Cole wrote: > Leave your TV plugged in but turned off and it still consumes about 50w. You need to buy a new TV. The new ones are under a half-watt when plugged in but turned off. 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com "Kits made by KL7UW" Dubus Mag business: [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Ed,
I spent a lot of time over the past few years looking at this exact problem. It becomes interesting if your power company charges tiered rates and baseline is under a dime, while 300% and over is nearly $0.50. The government's EnergyStar program did not initially look at standby power, but about a decade ago they got pretty heavily involved. My half-watt standby number came from the EnergyStar web site, and is typical of a good-sized LED television. Same is true of DVD players, video games, etc. -- they use almost no power when the only thing they're doing is waiting for someone to pick up a remote control. Under 1/2 watt is pretty typical on anything new. At a half-watt, the electronic device is cold -- not much of a fire hazard. The sum of all of the standby loads can be significant if you have lots of older stuff, or it can be pretty low. Twenty half-watt devices 24 hours/day is 7 kilowatt hours a month. By the way, if you're worried about fire hazards, replace all your incandescent light bulbs with LED bulbs -- especially the ones in closets and storage spaces. If you want to know where your power dollars go, eBay and most home improvement stores (Orange or Blue) have a gadget called a Kill-A-Watt. You can actually measure. 73 -- Lynn P.S. when energy rates soared several years ago, I measured our (old) refrigerator with a Kill-A-Watt and found that the energy savings alone would pay for a new one in about a year. On 10/15/2014 9:29 AM, Edward R Cole wrote: > Lynn, > > That was a guess and probably way too high. I have 3-year old 46-inch > LED flat-screen. But also a home theater receiver rated to 125w audio > and two DVD drives, a VCR and satellite receiver. So all the remote > control power supplies do add up - to what? I do not know - haven't > measured the total load. > > But since the TV is on from 5pm-10pm and off the rest of the day it > seems there would be some savings by disconnecting the ac power. We > have a six outlet strip which makes that simple. It does reduce fire > hazard. > > On the other hand I keep my Astron station 12v supply on full time > which supplies the OCXO, so I do not have any delay waiting for it to > stabilize. I have my ham gear on more frequently than the TV. > > We make a pot of coffee (fresh ground) in the morning and turn-off the > maker after it finishes. Coffee pot draws quite big load keeping > water and coffee pot hot. And that only ruins the coffee. We just > reheat a cup in the microwave when we want hot coffee. Do we save any > power this way?? But the coffee tastes better :-) > > 73, Ed ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by alsopb
Folks let me set a few things straight. I have designed a few high stability time bases and I have done the lab work so I am confident of my facts.
First, you never want to use AC or bimetal thermostats for precision oven heaters because they are inherently noisy and ultimately unstable. Bimetal is a bang-bang controller and starts having short time stability troubles at one part in 10 minus 7. This type of controller may have a long term stability of 10 to the minus 9 (which will be advertised) but you must have short stability. After all the timebase is for a radio, not a clock so any comparison to clocks (or coffee makers) is bogus. Second, there is no such thing as a perfect insulator. Even a vacuum thermal bottle type oven will use energy. When the oven is warming from turn-on lots of energy is needed; not so much for maintaining a constant temperature. This is a classic trade-off. Do you have a big heater for fast turn-on or a small heater for precision? Third, on a level playing field an 'always on oven' will always consume more energy than a 'on demand' system. The claim 'always on' is more efficient is bogus. Unlike a race car, there is no startup penalty caused by inefficient acceleration. However, this may not be true of the oven power supply. Fourth, a dedicated power supply for the heater is usually the bigger waster of energy. The dedicated power supply is another trade-off. Use a linear and waste a lot of energy. Use a switcher and generate noise. Fifth, California has a law that says standby devices (like that wall wort plugged into the wall but not otherwise connected) my not waste more than 3 watts of energy. This applies to TVs that are plugged in but turned on. I don't think there is any enforcement for this law so I'm sure some violate it. Nevertheless manufactures don't want to be branded as energy hogs so most big manufactures comply. Also they do not want to have California only designs so the law is applied to all designs. All states and all counties benefit. Look at cell phone chargers where the light switchers are used instead of the heavy wall wort linear supplies. You thought it was to save weight? 73 Fred, AE6QL -----Original Message----- >From: Edward R Cole <[hidden email]> >Sent: Oct 15, 2014 9:29 AM >To: [hidden email] >Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3EXREF Query > >Lynn, > >That was a guess and probably way too high. I have 3-year old >46-inch LED flat-screen. But also a home theater receiver rated to >125w audio and two DVD drives, a VCR and satellite receiver. So all >the remote control power supplies do add up - to what? I do not know >- haven't measured the total load. > >But since the TV is on from 5pm-10pm and off the rest of the day it >seems there would be some savings by disconnecting the ac power. We >have a six outlet strip which makes that simple. It does reduce fire hazard. > >On the other hand I keep my Astron station 12v supply on full time >which supplies the OCXO, so I do not have any delay waiting for it to >stabilize. I have my ham gear on more frequently than the TV. > >We make a pot of coffee (fresh ground) in the morning and turn-off >the maker after it finishes. Coffee pot draws quite big load keeping >water and coffee pot hot. And that only ruins the coffee. We just >reheat a cup in the microwave when we want hot coffee. Do we save >any power this way?? But the coffee tastes better :-) > >73, Ed > >----------- >From: "Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT" <[hidden email]> >To: [hidden email] >Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3EXREF Query >Message-ID: <[hidden email]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >On 10/14/2014 2:47 PM, Edward R Cole wrote: > > Leave your TV plugged in but turned off and it still consumes about 50w. >You need to buy a new TV. The new ones are under a half-watt when >plugged in but turned off. > > >73, Ed - KL7UW >http://www.kl7uw.com > "Kits made by KL7UW" >Dubus Mag business: > [hidden email] > >______________________________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:[hidden email] > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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